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Author Topic: Arkansas is Irrelevant  (Read 1098 times)

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umpqua

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Arkansas is Irrelevant
« on: January 12, 2018, 10:56:23 am »

Debbie Downer here on a Friday morning.

Someone in another thread posted about lowering expectations. I think that's wise advice. The basketball Razorbacks haven't been relevant in the last 17 years. Since 2000 we've been in the NCAA tournament 6 times. Of those 6 times we advanced out of the first round twice.

The Nolan shipped sailed 20 years ago. I'm privileged to have been around at that time. Too bad for all of the younger folks that never got to experience it. It was one hell of a ride.

Lowered expectations folks is going to make you happier.
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BentonvilleJeff

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 11:01:54 am »

It's a long season. I'm not giving up on them.
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Wildbill

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 11:11:18 am »

It's a long season. I'm not giving up on them.


We are who we have always been!  Not going to get any better, be lucky to make the NCAA Tourney
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razorpimp

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 11:45:56 am »

Debbie Downer here on a Friday morning.

Someone in another thread posted about lowering expectations. I think that's wise advice. The basketball Razorbacks haven't been relevant in the last 17 years. Since 2000 we've been in the NCAA tournament 6 times. Of those 6 times we advanced out of the first round twice.

The Nolan shipped sailed 20 years ago. I'm privileged to have been around at that time. Too bad for all of the younger folks that never got to experience it. It was one hell of a ride.

Lowered expectations folks is going to make you happier.

All it takes is money and a great coach...

Check out the previous histories of:
Texas Tech
Wichita St
Creighton
Xavier
West Virginia
Arizona St
Gonzaga
Auburn
Florida St




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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 11:54:11 am »

All it takes is money and a great coach...

Check out the previous histories of:
Texas Tech
Wichita St
Creighton
Xavier
West Virginia
Arizona St
Gonzaga
Auburn
Florida St

What?
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razorpimp

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 11:54:56 am »

What?

What are they ranked and how many losses do they have?
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2018, 11:56:16 am »

What are they ranked and how many losses do they have?

Solid team this year, but comparing a good start to a season to programs that have been competitive for at least a decade?
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majp51

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 11:56:28 am »

All it takes is money and a great coach...


Correction. All it takes is the right determination of the Athletic Department (usually though of as moneY) and the RIGHT Coach.

Presuming Mike still has the coaching fire, I completely believe he could go find a program in a conference that was a right fit for him, and he would be back to the Elite 8 or maybe even more.

The problem, IMHO , is not CMA or the University of Arkansas, it is CMA + UofA.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 11:59:28 am »

Lowered expectations will bring apathy to a fan base whose experienced more and expects more.  See our average actual home attendance the past couple of seasons.  Tempering expectations in sports where we are facing an uphill battle will not cause fans to stop caring as much as telling them to temper expectations where aren't at a disadvantage just because... not going to head down that path right now. 

Beat Mizzou and beat Ole Miss next week and head to UGa with a chance to get to 4-4. 
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 12:00:44 pm »

Correction. All it takes is the right determination of the Athletic Department (usually though of as moneY) and the RIGHT Coach.

Presuming Mike still has the coaching fire, I completely believe he could go find a program in a conference that was a right fit for him, and he would be back to the Elite 8 or maybe even more.

The problem, IMHO , is not CMA or the University of Arkansas, it is CMA + UofA.

What is his problem at the UA? 
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HamIAm

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2018, 12:02:07 pm »

Arkansas had experienced success in basketball before Nolan, not a national championship, but a couple of final fours.  We are not who we have always been, and it will eventually get better.
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razorpimp

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 12:02:34 pm »

Solid team this year, but comparing a good start to a season to programs that have been competitive for at least a decade?

Just saying the right coach can turn ANY program around in a very short time frame in basketball!!!!
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razorpimp

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2018, 12:06:07 pm »

Arkansas had experienced success in basketball before Nolan, not a national championship, but a couple of final fours.  We are not who we have always been, and it will eventually get better.

Under Mike?
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2018, 12:06:24 pm »

Just saying the right coach can turn ANY program around in a very short time frame in basketball!!!!

Don't let him bog you down arguing over one team on your list. 
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2018, 12:06:35 pm »

Just saying the right coach can turn ANY program around in a very short time frame in basketball!!!!

To quote the late Dennis Green: "If you wan to crown them, then crown their ass."

We're barely into conference play; three games ago we were a no brainer Sweet 16 team.

Recency bias never ceases to amaze me.
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razorpimp

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2018, 12:19:35 pm »

To quote the late Dennis Green: "If you wan to crown them, then crown their ass."

We're barely into conference play; three games ago we were a no brainer Sweet 16 team.

Recency bias never ceases to amaze me.

Recent bias?  Record in last 10 games?

6-4 losses to:
Houston
MSU
Auburn
LSU

Yea those are some real world beaters

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umpqua

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2018, 12:26:49 pm »

I agree that the right coach could make all the difference in the world; see Dana Altman.

I personally like CMA and his ties to the glory years that we experienced under Nolan. Someone else wrote that the "40 minutes of hell" model doesn't work anymore.....too many TV timeouts and the game/players have evolved. I agree with that. I'd submit that CMA has the program in a slightly better position than we were in when he arrived but I also think that he's reached his ceiling. We can decide to be satisfied with the every 2-3 year NCAA appearance with an early exit or we can hire someone that "might" take us to the next level.

I'll continue to care and check in on our record from time to time but the days of planning my life around a Razorback basketball game have passed.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2018, 12:27:48 pm »

Recent bias?  Record in last 10 games?

6-4 losses to:
Houston
MSU
Auburn
LSU

Yea those are some real world beaters

Was the sky falling before the three game losing streak?  I thought that Auburn team was an example of what a good coach can do; now they are bad?

It's early in the conference season. There is no doubt reason for concern, but most problems I see are due to effort on the defensive end and glass which are correctable.

We could rise, we could falter. Auburn could continue to rise, they could falter.  It's too early to judge any team's season.
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majp51

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2018, 12:29:29 pm »

What is his problem at the UA? 

Quite honestly it is recruiting. Whether it is because he is too loyal to assistants that other coaches wouldn't want, or his own reticence to get in the AAU cesspool, his recruiting means he ends up with a bunch of 3 star players, some borderline 4's, and then once in a while he lucks into a Gaffords or Portis type player who is a bona fide 4, maybe even 5, star player. But there is no consistency in the overall recruiting results. At Arkansas the 3 star players, sure to unique recruiting challenges for Arkansas, will often be borderline without a very hard push. At schools like UAB, and Missouri, those 3 stars (coming from more fertile recruiting grounds) are legit 3 star players, not borderline. It is ultimately not the Gaffords, but the depth where he ultimately fails.



I should point out that the recruiting challenges for the UofA are not insurmountable, I just think it requires a different kind of mindset than the one that CMA has.

And again this isn't about losing the Malik Monk's of the world, it is not getting the necessary role players.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 12:40:01 pm by majp51 »
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Sow Lancelot

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2018, 12:51:44 pm »

I'll continue to care and check in on our record from time to time but the days of planning my life around a Razorback basketball game have passed.
Iím afraid Iím getting close to this point as well.
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seasonhog

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2018, 02:36:12 pm »

Debbie Downer here on a Friday morning.

Someone in another thread posted about lowering expectations. I think that's wise advice. The basketball Razorbacks haven't been relevant in the last 17 years. Since 2000 we've been in the NCAA tournament 6 times. Of those 6 times we advanced out of the first round twice.

The Nolan shipped sailed 20 years ago. I'm privileged to have been around at that time. Too bad for all of the younger folks that never got to experience it. It was one hell of a ride.

Lowered expectations folks is going to make you happier.


Good post......we are not going back to " 40 min of hell " ball.....we would do well to change our style of play....

Nolan style of ball was at a diff time when the game was called were you could hand check...and Nolan ball was somewhat a new concept. Nolan 40 min of hell would wear teams out......

Mike is not Nolan...Nolan would jerk a player chain.....Mike has a diff personality, not near as tough as Nolan was.

The Auburn game we were worned out.....Mike team is nowere in the playing shape of Nolan teams......

We are in need of a good big body to help Gafford out and a point guard...who can take a defender off the dribble..



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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2018, 02:39:17 pm »

Arkansas had experienced success in basketball before Nolan, not a national championship, but a couple of final fours.  We are not who we have always been, and it will eventually get better.

Three before Nolan. 1941, 1945 and 1978.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 06:29:39 pm by Inhogswetrust »
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razorpimp

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2018, 03:29:16 pm »

Was the sky falling before the three game losing streak?  I thought that Auburn team was an example of what a good coach can do; now they are bad?

It's early in the conference season. There is no doubt reason for concern, but most problems I see are due to effort on the defensive end and glass which are correctable.

We could rise, we could falter. Auburn could continue to rise, they could falter.  It's too early to judge any team's season.

My point exactly!  Arkansas should never be below Auburn in basketball....the tiger fans hardly know there is a game being played when they play....but mediocre Mike is leading us that direction!

Guess the experts were right, 6th place in SEC...crap we would be ecstatic to be that high right now we are tied for next to last
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bkjbearcat

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2018, 05:11:25 pm »

Quite honestly it is recruiting. Whether it is because he is too loyal to assistants that other coaches wouldn't want, or his own reticence to get in the AAU cesspool, his recruiting means he ends up with a bunch of 3 star players, some borderline 4's, and then once in a while he lucks into a Gaffords or Portis type player who is a bona fide 4, maybe even 5, star player. But there is no consistency in the overall recruiting results. At Arkansas the 3 star players, sure to unique recruiting challenges for Arkansas, will often be borderline without a very hard push. At schools like UAB, and Missouri, those 3 stars (coming from more fertile recruiting grounds) are legit 3 star players, not borderline. It is ultimately not the Gaffords, but the depth where he ultimately fails.



I should point out that the recruiting challenges for the UofA are not insurmountable, I just think it requires a different kind of mindset than the one that CMA has.

And again this isn't about losing the Malik Monk's of the world, it is not getting the necessary role players.

This. If he doesn't want to get in the muck to get elite players then get someone who will. Guys like Bill Self will do anything to get elite talent. But MA flat out refuses to. That's why Goodwin, Monk and Perry told him to kick rocks.

I know MA is a good man. Right now however I don't care if he's a good man. I want a HC that wins. A HC that wins conference championships, Tournament championships. Someone who gets out of the round of 32. MA isn't that guy.
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HogBreath

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2018, 05:31:28 pm »

Was the sky falling before the three game losing streak?

No..it was not.

Also... the Titanic was not sinking before it hit the iceberg.

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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2018, 06:30:32 pm »

No..it was not.

Also... the Titanic was not sinking before it hit the iceberg.



I don't think any of our remaining opponents mascot is an iceberg.
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Breems

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2018, 06:41:41 pm »

Lowered expectations will bring apathy to a fan base whose experienced more and expects more.  See our average actual home attendance the past couple of seasons.  Tempering expectations in sports where we are facing an uphill battle will not cause fans to stop caring as much as telling them to temper expectations where aren't at a disadvantage just because... not going to head down that path right now. 

Beat Mizzou and beat Ole Miss next week and head to UGa with a chance to get to 4-4. 

This. As a young (post-Nolan) fan, I used to frequently try to convince people to accept reality and lower their expectations. That's not what we want. We need the fans with unreasonable, nostalgic expectations now more than ever.
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Snouty

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2018, 08:35:46 pm »

No..it was not.

Also... the Titanic was not sinking before it hit the iceberg.



You are quite right, sir.  +1!
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Hogimus Prime

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2018, 10:23:07 pm »

MA's brand of Hawgball is different from Nolan's.  Nolan wanted to mentally and physically wear out his opponent.  MA want's to speed you up.  He will give easy baskets to speed up the game. Nolan didn't like that.
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opineonswine

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Re: Arkansas is Irrelevant
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2018, 10:28:49 pm »

done
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