Why does the team not have anymore guards than they do?

[rzrbkman]

One guard is out for the season due to an illness of some type and that has apparently thrown the guard depth off for the whole season. How bad would it have been if Barford and Macon had not returned?

[hogsanity]

One guard is out for the season due to an illness of some type and that has apparently thrown the guard depth off for the whole season. How bad would it have been if Barford and Macon had not returned?

Well what would have been a quality SR Guard, in Nick Babb is currently playing 30+ mins a game for Iowa St. Mike never would play him, just kept talking him up all the time "Nick is coming on, he's earning some time" and then he would not see the floor for 4 or 5 games. So he left. So did Whitt ( another player who when signed was touted as a great get by Mike ) and then of course the unfortunate health issue with Garland that no one saw coming.

[The_Iceman]

The projected rotation for this season was supposed to be:

Beard / Garland
Macon / Jones
Barford / Hall
Thomas / Bailey / Gabe O
Gafford / Thompson / Cook

The Garland thing was completely unpredictable. He is a Top 50 level talent out of high school, which usually mean instant contributor. Unfortunate that we may never see him play again.

[The_Iceman]

Well what would have been a quality SR Guard, in Nick Babb is currently playing 30+ mins a game for Iowa St. Mike never would play him, just kept talking him up all the time "Nick is coming on, he's earning some time" and then he would not see the floor for 4 or 5 games. So he left. So did Whitt ( another player who when signed was touted as a great get by Mike ) and then of course the unfortunate health issue with Garland that no one saw coming.

That's a 6'3" and 6'5" guard that are combined averaging per game:

22.6 points, 12.4 rebounds, 11.4 assists, and 3.2 steals.

And people tried to tell us losing those kids to transfer was not a big deal. You are seeing now why it is. Transfers hurt Mike because his program is built on developing players over 4 years. When he has to restart that clock, it sets him back.

[Atlhogfan1]

Well what would have been a quality SR Guard, in Nick Babb is currently playing 30+ mins a game for Iowa St. Mike never would play him, just kept talking him up all the time "Nick is coming on, he's earning some time" and then he would not see the floor for 4 or 5 games. So he left. So did Whitt ( another player who when signed was touted as a great get by Mike ) and then of course the unfortunate health issue with Garland that no one saw coming.

6'5 Babb nearly had two triple doubles last week.  T6th in college basketball at 7.5 apg.  But we may not have went mining the Jucos for Barford had Babb stayed. 

[razorpimp]

The projected rotation for this season was supposed to be:

Beard / Garland
Macon / Jones
Barford / Hall
Thomas / Bailey / Gabe O
Gafford / Thompson / Cook

The Garland thing was completely unpredictable. He is a Top 50 level talent out of high school, which usually mean instant contributor. Unfortunate that we may never see him play again.

I'm tired of folks using Garland's unfortunate illness as an excuse for the depth issue.  He was not a top 50 talent more like top 200, 3*....more than likely he would have really struggled with the speed of the game in his first year.  If he comes back he could develop into a really good to great player, but very few freshmen come in their first year and succeed.

[hogsanity]

I'm tired of folks using Garland's unfortunate illness as an excuse for the depth issue.  He was not a top 50 talent more like top 200, 3*....more than likely he would have really struggled with the speed of the game in his first year.  If he comes back he could develop into a really good to great player, but very few freshmen come in their first year and succeed.

Gotta cut Mike some slack on this one. No one said Garland was going to set the world on fire, but he would have provided some depth, that is really all anyone is saying about him not being able to play.

[3of5-2]

It's beginning to sound like the only team that has a problem playing the "fastest 40" is us.

[Fan701]

Well what would have been a quality SR Guard, in Nick Babb is currently playing 30+ mins a game for Iowa St. Mike never would play him, just kept talking him up all the time "Nick is coming on, he's earning some time" and then he would not see the floor for 4 or 5 games. So he left. So did Whitt ( another player who when signed was touted as a great get by Mike ) and then of course the unfortunate health issue with Garland that no one saw coming.

Yeah, but Macon and Barford quite possibly would not have come had Babb and Whitt stayed.  I think their leaving was the impetus to go JUCO.  So, really what you want to ask yourself is would you rather have Babb and Whitt or Barford and Macon?  I think the answer is pretty easy.

[rzrbkman]

It's beginning to sound like the only team that has a problem playing the "fastest 40" is us.

Good point.

[k.c.hawg]

There aren't 5 schools in the country where you couldn't find a depth issue at a position on their roster due to transfers. I get Babb leaving, totaly didn't understand Whitt. Whitt averaged 17+ minutes a game on a team with some guard depth.

Weird how we are wondering about guard depth when our top 4 guards are averaging 57 pts per game and we lost a player that would have gotten some considerable minutes.

[rzrbkman]

There aren't 5 schools in the country where you couldn't find a depth issue at a position on their roster due to transfers. I get Babb leaving, totaly didn't understand Whitt. Whitt averaged 17+ minutes a game on a team with some guard depth.

Weird how we are wondering about guard depth when our top 4 guards are averaging 57 pts per game and we lost a player that would have gotten some considerable minutes.

Those guards on the team are starting to show evidence of legs getting more tired each game.

[rude1]

Just take a simple look at the roster. 6 seniors sound good in theory, but when you break it down we have two players to have been here their whole career, Beard & Thompson, sorry but that is not the level of talent you can build your team around, the rest of the "seniors" are playing only their second season on the court for us. There has been a lot of missing on getting guards here to stay and develop along with every other position. One guard who doesn't make it should have put us in this position, this is an accumulation of 6 years of failing on the recruiting trail to bring in quality players EVERY year.

[k.c.hawg]

Those guards on the team are starting to show evidence of legs getting more tired each game.

Yeah, and Babb is averaging 38.3 min a game on a bad team.

[niels_boar]

Well what would have been a quality SR Guard, in Nick Babb is currently playing 30+ mins a game for Iowa St. Mike never would play him, just kept talking him up all the time "Nick is coming on, he's earning some time" and then he would not see the floor for 4 or 5 games. So he left. So did Whitt ( another player who when signed was touted as a great get by Mike ) and then of course the unfortunate health issue with Garland that no one saw coming.

You can thrash CMA with a wet noodle for not playing Babb more, but after a year off for development he only played 16 minutes per game for Iowa St. last season, which would have been his junior season here.  Babb wasn't very good last year.  He averaged 3 points and shot under 40% in Big 12 play.  Hence, it's not at all obvious that frosh Babb deserved a lot of playing time on a team that was making an NCAAT run.  Whitt played more as a frosh than Babb did last year at Iowa State and still transferred. 

It's highly unlikely that if Babb and Whitt had stayed and flourished that they we just add them to Barford and Macon, even in the unlikely event that two JUCOs looking for playing time had both signed.  Last season we would have had Babb, Whitt, Hannahs, Macon, and Barford competing for three slots in the lineup with Beard and Watkins thrown in.  There is no way that we have four happy campers returning this season with a couple in reserve roles.  That just wasn't going to happen. Babb, Whitt, and Barford all wanted to play PG for NBA purposes.  We don't get to just add Babb and Whitt as replacements for a couple of guys at the end of the bench in an alternative scenario. It doesn't work that way.

Nobody complained about too few guards last season. Two graduated.  The class included two. If Hall builds on his good performance on Saturday and Jones gets back in the rotation, we'll be playing the same number of guards as last season.  We needed two of Jones, Hall, and Garland to be effective rotation players.  Garland's issues, which could not be anticipated, took away the margin of error for Jones and Hall.  Once Jones gets it going again, and I believe he will, the situation is manageable.

[hogwood]

Babb would be a solid rotation player coming off the bench, but I think Garland could've easily fulfilled that role. Babb's stats are inflated as he plays on a team with less talent. And I've seen Whitt play twice this year - I am so glad he's not on our roster. He looked absolutely horrible and was turning it over like mad and air balling shots when I watched. I was in disbelief that this was ever the promising recruit we once signed.

I think we are just 1 guard shy on our rotation and that would be Garland. The other edit to the roster is make is replacing one of our undersized 4's with a legit sized one or another 5 and move Thompson to the 4.

[lynbug]

Just take a simple look at the roster. 6 seniors sound good in theory, but when you break it down we have two players to have been here their whole career, Beard & Thompson, sorry but that is not the level of talent you can build your team around, the rest of the "seniors" are playing only their second season on the court for us. There has been a lot of missing on getting guards here to stay and develop along with every other position. One guard who doesn't make it should have put us in this position, this is an accumulation of 6 years of failing on the recruiting trail to bring in quality players EVERY year.

And as these situations seem to happen (to some degree) every year it affects not just that year but years that follow so it seems we always have some kind of position deficit going on.

[Atlhogfan1]

Macon would have been a Hog anyway. 

[Fan701]

You can thrash CMA with a wet noodle for not playing Babb more, but after a year off for development he only played 16 minutes per game for Iowa St. last season, which would have been his junior season here.  Babb wasn't very good last year.  He averaged 3 points and shot under 40% in Big 12 play.  Hence, it's not at all obvious that frosh Babb deserved a lot of playing time on a team that was making an NCAAT run.  Whitt played more as a frosh than Babb did last year at Iowa State and still transferred. 

It's highly unlikely that if Babb and Whitt had stayed and flourished that they we just add them to Barford and Macon, even in the unlikely event that two JUCOs looking for playing time had both signed.  Last season we would have had Babb, Whitt, Hannahs, Macon, and Barford competing for three slots in the lineup with Beard and Watkins thrown in.  There is no way that we have four happy campers returning this season with a couple in reserve roles.  That just wasn't going to happen. Babb, Whitt, and Barford all wanted to play PG for NBA purposes.  We don't get to just add Babb and Whitt as replacements for a couple of guys at the end of the bench in an alternative scenario. It doesn't work that way.

Nobody complained about too few guards last season. Two graduated.  The class included two. If Hall builds on his good performance on Saturday and Jones gets back in the rotation, we'll be playing the same number of guards as last season.  We needed two of Jones, Hall, and Garland to be effective rotation players.  Garland's issues, which could not be anticipated, took away the margin of error for Jones and Hall.  Once Jones gets it going again, and I believe he will, the situation is manageable.

Of course, what you say is true, but the kinds of posts you're responding to really aren't about Babb.  Babb is just a handy stick to beat MA with.  He and Whitt will still serve that purpose for those who want to thrash MA, even though it makes no sense.  MA replaced those two by going JUCO and upgraded to Barford and Macon.  Does he get credit for that?  Well, apparently not with some.

[beachhog]

Babb was special.  MA was at fault but someone was in his ear too. IMO

[The_Iceman]

I'm tired of folks using Garland's unfortunate illness as an excuse for the depth issue.  He was not a top 50 talent more like top 200, 3*....more than likely he would have really struggled with the speed of the game in his first year.  If he comes back he could develop into a really good to great player, but very few freshmen come in their first year and succeed.

Huh?....

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/211933/khalil-garland