Wally Hall really does tell it like it is - things Hogs fans do not want to..

[oldhawg]

People do not like to talk about it, but you can trace all this back to integration of college football. Arkansas just has a small population to start with, and an even smaller AA population than did Texas in the old SWC days, or the top teams in the SEC now.

Interestingly, SMU led the way with Jerry Levias (and others) in that post-desegregation era, and this resulted in their rise to prominence in college football.

A little money changing hands helped also.

[GuvHog]

1972 they went 6-5  1973 they went 5-5-1 1974 they went 6-4-1 tied for 4th in the swc all three of those seasons. 1976 they went 5-5-1 and finished 6th in the swc.

It's true they were down some in the 70's but they were never way down because they never had a losing season. In the last 6 years, the Hogs have had 3 losing seasons. Hooty, as bad as he was, only had 2 losing seasons and that was because Frank's friendship with a big money booster got the Hogs on probation and hurt recruiting. The point is while the Hogs have had some down years in the 70's and in the 90's, The program had dropped to an all time low after Petrino's firing. That's not acceptable.

[hogsanity]

It's true they were down some in the 70's but they were never way down because they never had a losing season. In the last 6 years, the Hogs have had 3 losing seasons. Hooty, as bad as he was, only had 2 losing seasons and that was because Frank's friendship with a big money booster got the Hogs on probation and hurt recruiting. The point is while the Hogs have had some down years in the 70's and in the 90's, The program had dropped to an all time low after Petrino's firing. That's not acceptable.

They were way down. They did not make a bowl in 4 out of 5 years ( yes I know making a bowl was not quite as easy ) and were way off what they had been in the mid-late 60's.

Interestingly, SMU led the way with Jerry Levias (and others) in that post-desegregation era, and this resulted in their rise to prominence in college football.

A little money changing hands helped also.

It is not that the Hogs did not integrate, it was the pool of players that opened up to other schools in areas with larger AA populations.

[EastexHawg]

Someone needs to print the t-shirts and bumper stickers:

ARKANSAS - TOO DUMB TO WIN

Or maybe a better way to put it would be...we don't have the stomach for winning.  Maybe we want to win, but we want to do it our way.  Well, at least the guys with enough bucks and power to make things happen want to do it their way.

[hogsanity]

Someone needs to print the t-shirts and bumper stickers:

ARKANSAS - TOO DUMB TO WIN

Or maybe a better way to put it would be...we don't have the stomach for winning.  Maybe we want to win, but we want to do it our way.  Well, at least the guys with enough bucks and power to make things happen want to do it their way.

So that means what? They have to start paying players? Doing the things that hog fans accuse other teams of doing to win?

[EastexHawg]

So that means what? They have to start paying players? Doing the things that hog fans accuse other teams of doing to win?

It means we don't fire the best coach we have had in 35 years, coming off a top five season, for banging a secretary.  It means we don't hire and hang onto a basketball coach because of nostalgia, because he reminds us of the good old days.  It means we don't let a man who has turned one of the most successful NFL franchises of the last 50 years into a playoff non-entity over the last 20-plus pick our coaches because he likes them.  It means we don't give a coach coming off 3-9 and 7-6 seasons an exorbitant one-way buyout because he beat a simply awful Texas team that was on the way to getting its own coach fired.

[hogsanity]

It means we don't fire the best coach we have had in 35 years, coming off a top five season, for banging a secretary.  It means we don't hire and hang onto a basketball coach because of nostalgia, because he reminds us of the good old days.  It means we don't let a man who has turned one of the most successful NFL franchises of the last 50 years into a playoff non-entity over the last 20-plus pick our coaches because he likes them.  It means we don't give a coach coming off 3-9 and 7-6 seasons an exorbitant one-way buyout because he beat a simply awful Texas team that was on the way to getting its own coach fired.

But stopping all of that does not guarantee wins ( yes I know you think BP was about to have a Saban type run here ).

[GuvHog]

But stopping all of that does not guarantee wins ( yes I know you think BP was about to have a Saban type run here ).

I agree, stopping all of that does not guarantee wins (BP wasn't about to have a Saban type run but there is no doubt in my mind that he would have won at least 8 regular season games every year at Arkansas while having an occasional big season).

[Inhogswetrust]

I suggested recently on Hogville that there should be a change in the way universities compensate and structure the contracts of coaches. My thoughts were roundly rejected because it is not the way things are now and most of you cannot envision change. Wally writes about the new AD suggesting the same thing i did: No more crazy buyouts when you do not do your job. Losing consistently becoming grounds to fire a coach "for cause".

Wally also notes that 4 of the last 5 permanent head coaches at Arkansas have been fired. Zero conference championships since the 1989 season. He states in plain english that Arkansas is not the same desirable destination for coaches that it was before 1990. Wally writes: "Losing football games and firing coaches do not make a school attractive nationwide." Of course that is a true statement. And Arkansas has fired all of its head coaches in the past 25+ years

Houston Nutt was not fired. He WAS won the hot seat, knew it and worked a deal out of John White to leave.

As far as not a desireable destination during that time frame of 25 years, we hired permanent coaches of: one with a NC on his Resume, one that was a good on the field but fired for off the field stuff but was when hired considered a coup to get and another that had been to three Rose Bowls. That doesn't sound like an undesirable place to me. I know Wally and will disagree with him on that. Your proposal to change the way coaches are paid to include losing as a cause for termination is fine and I like it. The problem is getting ALL schools to agree to that. That might be considered collusion and possibly a legal issue then. It also would open up a bigger can of worms to get coaches to possibly cheat more than they do now to get the good players to win more to keep their jobs. Also they ARE fired for performance all over the country now. They are simply paid now to leave. Happens all the time in big businesses not sports related.

[HeathWimp]

Look at the post again. I analyzed both sides of the possibilities. I said TCU was a swing game. I said I thought TCU would come down to a QB battle and Arkansas would win in a shootout because the game was in Fayetteville and because I thought Austin Allen was a better QB than Kenny Hill. I also said we could lose.

Pull up my post and link it. I’m not going to waste time finding it but I remember what it said. No hindsght and no hedging. I definitely did not go on about how we would win 9 or 10. I went on about having a schedule that set up for success or disaster depending upon early momentum. Momentum works in both directions. The fans and students let the team down aganst TCU and all year.

Yep, that 4-8 record can be squarely laid at the feet of the fans and students.  It's really amazing that Bert was able to pull out 4 victories, given the small amount of crowd support.

[Inhogswetrust]

Petrino was the right hire. The fans knew it and were ultra excited by it. That was evident at the local Razorback Club meetings that spring before he'd ever coached a gam as head Hog. Bobby Proved them right.

The problem was and always had been, Jeff Long. Hiring him was a mistake of EPIC proportions.

In hindsight hiring Long was probably a mistake. However Bobby getting fired was not. Once you get over it you will feel better.

[Inhogswetrust]

To be fair White didn't start screwing things up until the late 97 when he came up with the committee that hired Nutt instead of Tuberville. That was five years into Arkansas' SEC membership.

However, 10 years after he was removed as Chancellor, the damage White did continues to plague this school. For Arkansas' opponents he is the gift that keeps on giving. Hopefully, now that the AD he helped hire is gone, White's negative influence has ended.

Arkansas had been a member of the SEC for several years by then but White didn't even become Chancellor until 1997. Therefore he started to screw thing up very fast! Therefore I don't quite understand the "to be fair" part.

[GuvHog]

In hindsight hiring Long was probably a mistake. However Bobby getting fired was not. Once you get over it you will feel better.

Bobby's firing was indeed a HUGE mistake. Long was dishonest in the Petrino investigation. It's old news and other than the fact that it destroyed the football program, I'm over it. I'm cautiously optimistic about Chad Morris.

[hogsanity]

Bobby's firing was indeed a HUGE mistake. Long was dishonest in the Petrino investigation.

You all the still have shrines to BP in your man caves can keep talking about him, but he is gone and he is not coming back. The guy who hired him AND fired him is gone too as is the guy who hired that guy. You can keep bring up Long, BP, HDN and whoever else, but they are not going to coach another game here.

[GuvHog]

You all the still have shrines to BP in your man caves can keep talking about him, but he is gone and he is not coming back. The guy who hired him AND fired him is gone too as is the guy who hired that guy. You can keep bring up Long, BP, HDN and whoever else, but they are not going to coach another game here.

Like I said, it's old news and since Long got what he deserved, it doesn't bother me anymore. I'm cautiously optimistic about Chad Morris.

[SooieGeneris]

BS. The only reason Forde won the division his 3rd year is because he had Joe Lee Dunn as his DC and Bama was ineligible (on probation). Joe Lee left in disgust after that 1 season. Ford was a has been who couldn't coach a lick.

We beat Alabama that year-in Tuscaloosa, finished ahead of them in the standings and JL Dunn was a snake oil salesman of a DC whose schemes were hard to prepare for opponents hadn't seen them before. Once they figured them out, different story. He wound up at Tarleton State or somewhere like that when he left..

[Al Boarland]

there are a few here that have been saying these same things for several years about both fb and bb and we are always told we are not real fans or are just trolling. Anyone with any objectivity at all ca see these things and know they are true.

Wally needs to know his role.  It's fine for the few of us realist to get on a message board and speak the truth.  However, he is part of the propaganda machine.  He has to keep the sheep fed in order to put butts in the seats.  He stepped over the line with that article.  Delusion powers CFB.  Those that can't have to believe they can.  Those that can have to believe that will never change.

[majestic]

We beat Alabama that year-in Tuscaloosa, finished ahead of them in the standings and JL Dunn was a snake oil salesman of a DC whose schemes were hard to prepare for opponents hadn't seen them before. Once they figured them out, different story. He wound up at Tarleton State or somewhere like that when he left..

I got Guved. Don't you be next.

[GuvHog]

We beat Alabama that year-in Tuscaloosa, finished ahead of them in the standings and JL Dunn was a snake oil salesman of a DC whose schemes were hard to prepare for opponents hadn't seen them before. Once they figured them out, different story. He wound up at Tarleton State or somewhere like that when he left..

Actually Dunn spent several years at Mississippi State under Jackie Sherrill then went to Memphis.

[mckinneyhog5]

Bobby's firing was indeed a HUGE mistake. Long was dishonest in the Petrino investigation. It's old news and other than the fact that it destroyed the football program, I'm over it. I'm cautiously optimistic about Chad Morris.

So Long was dishonest in the Petrino Investigation? Was Petrino dishonest during the investigation?

[Inhogswetrust]

Bobby's firing was indeed a HUGE mistake. Long was dishonest in the Petrino investigation. It's old news and other than the fact that it destroyed the football program, I'm over it. I'm cautiously optimistic about Chad Morris.

Since it's old news then WHY in the heck do constantly bring up Bobby!

[Inhogswetrust]

Like I said, it's old news and since Long got what he deserved, it doesn't bother me anymore. I'm cautiously optimistic about Chad Morris.

Oh yes it does bother you. All your posts about it proves it.

[Inhogswetrust]

Actually Dunn spent several years at Mississippi State under Jackie Sherrill then went to Memphis.

Correct and Sherrill fired him. IF he is such a great coach then why did he leave Memphis, became a high school coach in Memphis, then a coach at New Mexico State and then a coach at a college so small my high school was bigger.

[HognotinMemphis]

It means we don't fire the best coach we have had in 35 years, coming off a top five season, for banging a secretary.  It means we don't hire and hang onto a basketball coach because of nostalgia, because he reminds us of the good old days.  It means we don't let a man who has turned one of the most successful NFL franchises of the last 50 years into a playoff non-entity over the last 20-plus pick our coaches because he likes them.  It means we don't give a coach coming off 3-9 and 7-6 seasons an exorbitant one-way buyout because he beat a simply awful Texas team that was on the way to getting its own coach fired.

Love this. And you are so correct.

[HognotinMemphis]

I got Guved. Don't you be next.

L
O
L
!

[GuvHog]

Correct and Sherrill fired him. IF he is such a great coach then why did he leave Memphis, became a high school coach in Memphis, then a coach at New Mexico State and then a coach at a college so small my high school was bigger.

No, Sherrill didn't fire him. He left for the University of Memphis were he was subsequently fired because by then, other OCs had figured his defense out.

[Inhogswetrust]

No, Sherrill didn't fire him. He left for the University of Memphis were he was subsequently fired because by then, other OCs had figured his defense out.

Oh Really. Heck It only took my about 5 seconds of Googling to find an article about it. It's from the Daily Journal, October 2013 from when Memphis was going to play MSU:

I've taken excerpts out to prove it. By the way you are correct he was also fired by Memphis as was Tommy West. Ironically West getting fired and giving a speech about it was in some ways a catalyst for Memphis putting more emphasis on football.


If you recall, Dunn was one of five assistants MSU coach Jackie Sherrill fired after last season's 3-9 debacle. However, the defensive guru known for his unconventional style of coaching never made it to the unemployment line.

Within 24 hours of his termination, third-year Tigers coach Tommy West placed a call to Dunn.

The rest is history, and Saturday's 1:30 p.m. kickoff marks Dunn's first return to Scott Field since being axed.

West said he hasn't noticed a different approach by Dunn in preparing the game plan for this week's eagerly anticipated showdown. However, West said he is confident Dunn is aware the opponent is Mississippi State.

"I'm sure he knew what day this game would be played on," West said. "You don't forget being fired. I know I wouldn't."

Dunn isn't one to mince words. Is he still bothered about being let go? Yes, but he's not going to get caught up in a Joe Lee Dunn vs. Jackie Sherrill story line.

"I've moved on," he said with a raised eyebrow.

But he hasn't forgotten.

He didn't have to circle the date. His friends and associates did that for him.

[hogsanity]

Oh Really. Heck It only took my about 5 seconds of Goggling to find an article about it. It's from the Daily Journal, October 2013 from when Memphis was going to play MSU:

I've taken excerpts out to prove it. By the way you are correct he was also fired by Memphis.



If you recall, Dunn was one of five assistants MSU coach Jackie Sherrill fired after last season's 3-9 debacle. However, the defensive guru known for his unconventional style of coaching never made it to the unemployment line.

Within 24 hours of his termination, third-year Tigers coach Tommy West placed a call to Dunn.

The rest is history, and Saturday's 1:30 p.m. kickoff marks Dunn's first return to Scott Field since being axed.

West said he hasn't noticed a different approach by Dunn in preparing the game plan for this week's eagerly anticipated showdown. However, West said he is confident Dunn is aware the opponent is Mississippi State.

"I'm sure he knew what day this game would be played on," West said. "You don't forget being fired. I know I wouldn't."

Dunn isn't one to mince words. Is he still bothered about being let go? Yes, but he's not going to get caught up in a Joe Lee Dunn vs. Jackie Sherrill story line.

"I've moved on," he said with a raised eyebrow.

But he hasn't forgotten.

He didn't have to circle the date. His friends and associates did that for him.

Wait! What? Guv was wrong about something? No freaking way.

[GuvHog]

Oh Really. Heck It only took my about 5 seconds of Goggling to find an article about it. It's from the Daily Journal, October 2013 from when Memphis was going to play MSU:

I've taken excerpts out to prove it. By the way you are correct he was also fired by Memphis as was Tommy West. Ironically West getting fired and giving a speech about it was in some ways a catalyst for Memphis putting more emphasis on football.


If you recall, Dunn was one of five assistants MSU coach Jackie Sherrill fired after last season's 3-9 debacle. However, the defensive guru known for his unconventional style of coaching never made it to the unemployment line.

Within 24 hours of his termination, third-year Tigers coach Tommy West placed a call to Dunn.

The rest is history, and Saturday's 1:30 p.m. kickoff marks Dunn's first return to Scott Field since being axed.

West said he hasn't noticed a different approach by Dunn in preparing the game plan for this week's eagerly anticipated showdown. However, West said he is confident Dunn is aware the opponent is Mississippi State.

"I'm sure he knew what day this game would be played on," West said. "You don't forget being fired. I know I wouldn't."

Dunn isn't one to mince words. Is he still bothered about being let go? Yes, but he's not going to get caught up in a Joe Lee Dunn vs. Jackie Sherrill story line.

"I've moved on," he said with a raised eyebrow.

But he hasn't forgotten.

He didn't have to circle the date. His friends and associates did that for him.

Okay, you got me on that one. I knew he had been fired from Memphis but forgot that he was fired from Miss State too.

The point is, when he was at Arkansas, the OCs hadn't figured him out yet and that's why Arkansas was so successful that 1 year of Fords tenure. I still maintain that Ford was a has been and the game had passed him by. He should never have been hired. I believe Joe Kines should have been given the chance to see what he could do. It might not have worked out but he wouldn't have been any worse than Ford.

[Inhogswetrust]

Okay, you got me on that one. I knew he had been fired from Memphis but forgot that he was fired from Miss State too.

The point is, when he was at Arkansas, the OCs hadn't figured him out yet and that's why Arkansas was so successful that 1 year of Fords tenure. I still maintain that Ford was a has been and the game had passed him by. He should never have been hired. I believe Joe Kines should have been given the chance to see what he could do. It might not have worked out but he wouldn't have been any worse than Ford.

So you would have preferred to hire the guy that had never won a NC as a head coach over someone that did and was was called by the one that didn't to come help fix a problem that he couldn't fix. A perfect example of Guv logic...........................

[GuvHog]

So you would have preferred to hire the guy that had never won a NC as a head coach over someone that did and was was called by the one that didn't to come help fix a problem that he couldn't fix. A perfect example of Guv logic...........................

At that time yes. Danny Ford wasn't fired from Clemson for no reason.

[southeasthog]

At that time yes. Danny Ford wasn't fired from Clemson for no reason.

Was he even fired or did he step down because of recruiting violations?

[GuvHog]

Was he even fired or did he step down because of recruiting violations?

He was fired.

[southeasthog]

He was fired.

Link?

[southeasthog]

He was fired.

Ford's resignation came less than two weeks after the N.C.A.A. had informed Clemson, the top football team in the Atlantic Coast Conference, of 14 rules violations said to have been committed between 1984 and 1988 by the football program.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/01/19/sports/clemson-drops-ford-with-1-million-deal.html

[Tusks]

Ford's resignation came less than two weeks after the N.C.A.A. had informed Clemson, the top football team in the Atlantic Coast Conference, of 14 rules violations said to have been committed between 1984 and 1988 by the football program.
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/01/19/sports/clemson-drops-ford-with-1-million-deal.html

hahaha only 14 violations.  that doesnt even make press now days.

[redeye]

But, once they joined the SEC, it was clear from the jump that the Hogs were woefully behind in talent, both home grown and recruited. It was also clear pretty fast that they had no idea how tough recruiting in the SEC was going to be.

We went 9-14 in 2 seasons before joining the SEC.  Some say that Hatfield left the cupboard bare, because he knew he was leaving.  We were missing our normal talent level, but it began before we joined the SEC.

Despite that, we still beat LSU twice, Georgia in Athens and #4 Tennessee in Knoxville in our first 3 years, before winning the SEC-W in '95.  However, I do agree that Arkansas has a recruiting disadvantage in the SEC and it's only become more prominent since we've been here.  The rise of SEC football correlates with SEC teams having better success identifying good players, thanks to recruiting services, and keeping them at home.  It's also why the Big Ten has struggled during the same time period.

[cityhog]

I've long said Arkansas football and basketball the last 20+ years is akin to an Escalade parked in front of a trailer.

[Inhogswetrust]

At that time yes. Danny Ford wasn't fired from Clemson for no reason.

Guv world fantasy.

I will admit that under the circumstances and reasons for Ford leaving Clemson it was a gamble to hire him.

[majestic]

How many times has Guv been wrong in this thread? It's comical.

[Pork Twain]

Let’s stop this revisionist history that the SEC ruined Arkansas.  What was our record the last two years of the SWC?

So we are going to talk about the last 20+ years in the SEC but you only want to look at the last 2 in the SWC?  Solid tactic

[Pork Twain]

How many times has Guv been wrong in this thread? It's comical.

Do not get trapped in that wormhole

[hawgon]

So we are going to talk about the last 20+ years in the SEC but you only want to look at the last 2 in the SWC?  Solid tactic

What?  You mean those two years before we came into the SEC that were some of the worst Arkansas years in the last thirty?  Or are you talking about the next fifteen in the SEC where we represented the West in the championship game three times?

[ADavisTheGOAT]

Speaking of Wally, where is Porkatarian?

[HogCzar1]

I knew you would comment but I find it interesting how my comments almost always embolden those who do not post much to reply. The other two guys who commented have less than 1,000 posts.

The question is not so much the past, but the future. The facts are what they are. The correct question should be given this past, where do we go from here?

I'm not sure if the author is excited about the past, frustrated, or indifferent.

All I know is this. We have the resources and the opportunity to succeed. It takes the right coach. We can do better than we have. I honestly think we will. I think there is going to be a different mindset in our athletic department with the new blood. We shall see.

But, if the original post was designed to infer that our position is hopeless, then count me as a dissenter. It isn't. In any sport. Not easy, but nothing worthwhile is.

[bphi11ips]

The question is not so much the past, but the future. The facts are what they are. The correct question should be given this past, where do we go from here?

I'm not sure if the author is excited about the past, frustrated, or indifferent.

All I know is this. We have the resources and the opportunity to succeed. It takes the right coach. We can do better than we have. I honestly think we will. I think there is going to be a different mindset in our athletic department with the new blood. We shall see.

But, if the original post was designed to infer that our position is hopeless, then count me as a dissenter. It isn't. In any sport. Not easy, but nothing worthwhile is.

Dang!  Great post!

[Pork Twain]

What?  You mean those two years before we came into the SEC that were some of the worst Arkansas years in the last thirty?  Or are you talking about the next fifteen in the SEC where we represented the West in the championship game three times?

Mizzou looked like world beaters their first couple of years too.  The SECW was down the first 8 years Arkansas was in it, then it recovered and we were exposed.  As far as the 90's go, the SEC belonged to the SECE.

Below is a comparison between the last 25 in the SWC and the first 25 in the SEC.  You do not have to be a rocket surgeon to figure it out but I am sure some on here still won't get it.

[hawgon]

Mizzou looked like world beaters their first couple of years too.  The SECW was down the first 8 years Arkansas was in it, then it recovered and we were exposed.  As far as the 90's go, the SEC belonged to the SECE.

We went in 2006.  We had one losing season after that in Petrino's first year, then we fired him and hired Smiley and Bert.  The only things that got exposed were our idiot AD and the clowns he hired as coaches.

[Pork Twain]

We went in 2006.  We had one losing season after that in Petrino’s first year, then we fired him and hired Smiley and Bert.  The only things that got exposed were our idiot AD and the clowns he hired as coaches.

We joined the SEC in 1992 and have not done much since.  Our fans get exposed every time they attempt revisionist history lessons.  So now you want to look at our 2006 season but still only want to look at the last two years in the SWC.  Your tactics, still solid...

We had as many 10 win seasons in the last 6 years in the SWC as we have had in the last 25 in the SEC, but if you only care about the last two in the SWC, you might be on to something.

[Michael D Huff AIA]

It gets frustrating when current events are instantly compared with events that literally took place two generations ago.  Who really gives a [CENSORED] about the SWC days, unless we want to talk about our success in a plainly inferior conference.  It would be like playing in the Mountain West or AAC today.