Hats off to Wally Hall for telling it like it is about the refs 40

[forrest city joe]

He is 100% on the money when he says this.QUOTED.Never, ever should there be a free-throw shooting discrepancy of 40 to 12.

Not in the SEC, not in college, not in high school, not in junior high, not even in 6-year-old basketball should one team shoot 40 free throws and the other team shoot 12.

Especially not when Mississippi State and Arkansas both have the reputation of playing hard-nosed defense. The officials -- Joe Lindsay, Olandis Poole and Ron Groover -- should be ashamed of themselves.  They should be forced to write Mike Anderson an apology.The Bulldogs are a good basketball team, but they weren't the best team Tuesday night. They were the team that was HOME. The Razorbacks must have felt like Davy Crockett when he looked over the wall of the Alamo.UNQUOTE.
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No apology letter will get it done. those 3 scumbags should be fired for what they did. looks like i am not the only person who saw that one-sided BS cheating the other night.those 3 scumbags gave Miss.State that game.

[Karma]

I thought this was interesting, but when we beat Minnesota at home this year, they shot 37 FT's to our 13.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400986414

I'm not sure what league those refs were from, but we were clearly the more aggressive team that night so that's a strange fact.

[The_Iceman]

How many plays did you see that should have resulted in free throws for us that did not?

How many plays did you see that resulted in free throws for them, that should not have?

Break that down and come back and we can discuss.

[Karma]

Another strange stat, our opponents have taken more FT's than we have this year. 334-330. I'm sure not many top 25 teams can say that.

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/stats/mbb/2017-18/teamcume.htm

[LA Football fan]

I thought this was interesting, but when we beat Minnesota at home this year, they shot 37 FT's to our 13.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400986414

I'm not sure what league those refs were from, but we were clearly the more aggressive team that night so that's a strange fact.

If one team is visibly more aggressive than the other then it is highly likely they will foul more.  When BOTH teams are highly aggressive, like Tuesday night, then the foul and free throw difference should be much closer if not negligible. 

[LA Football fan]

How many plays did you see that should have resulted in free throws for us that did not?

How many plays did you see that resulted in free throws for them, that should not have?

Break that down and come back and we can discuss.

You want the facts you break it down.

[hogsanity]

If one team is visibly more aggressive than the other then it is highly likely they will foul more.  When BOTH teams are highly aggressive, like Tuesday night, then the foul and free throw difference should be much closer if not negligible. 

MSU is the least whistled team in the SEC, they may play tough D but they do so without fouling too much. One thing they do not do is slap at the ball.

[hogsanity]

You want the facts you break it down.

Those would not be facts, it would be subjective.

[Little Lady Back]

He is 100% on the money when he says this.QUOTED.Never, ever should there be a free-throw shooting discrepancy of 40 to 12.

Not in the SEC, not in college, not in high school, not in junior high, not even in 6-year-old basketball should one team shoot 40 free throws and the other team shoot 12.

Especially not when Mississippi State and Arkansas both have the reputation of playing hard-nosed defense. The officials -- Joe Lindsay, Olandis Poole and Ron Groover -- should be ashamed of themselves.  They should be forced to write Mike Anderson an apology.The Bulldogs are a good basketball team, but they weren't the best team Tuesday night. They were the team that was HOME. The Razorbacks must have felt like Davy Crockett when he looked over the wall of the Alamo.UNQUOTE.
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No apology letter will get it done. those 3 scumbags should be fired for what they did. looks like i am not the only person who saw that one-sided BS cheating the other night.those 3 scumbags gave Miss.State that game.

I have never really been a big fan of Wally's but lately I have actually enjoyed reading some of his articles. He really has been telling it like it is!

[ShadowHawg]

Another strange stat, our opponents have taken more FT's than we have this year. 334-330. I'm sure not many top 25 teams can say that.

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/stats/mbb/2017-18/teamcume.htm

Those numbers include the Miss St. game. Take away that game and we outshoot our opponents at the line.

[BRHogfan]

Arkansas opponents average around 23 Free Throws per game and Arkansas does the same.  Mississippi State held us below their opponents average in free throws and shot well above their average.

Minnesota and UNC are two teams that had a large discrepancy against us.  37 & 13 and 21 & 8, but Mississippi State is more alarming because they are not as good as those team. 

[The_Iceman]

You want the facts you break it down.

Obviously it is easier for some to just complain about the refs than to actually analyse and produce an informed opinion.

[forrest city joe]

How many plays did you see that should have resulted in free throws for us that did not?

How many plays did you see that resulted in free throws for them, that should not have?

Break that down and come back and we can discuss.

I will get back to you now. my eyes are not lying to me. i know the BS i saw called on Arkansas. and the BS they did not call on Miss.State.one team is not doing all the freaking fouling.

[forrest city joe]

Obviously it is easier for some to just complain about the refs than to actually analyse and produce an informed opinion.

I have the game on tape,so don't give me that crap! i know what my eyes saw. and so does Wally and many others.those 3 scumbag refs were garbage! they gave Miss.State that game.

[ShadowHawg]

Obviously it is easier for some to just complain about the refs than to actually analyse and produce an informed opinion.

What you asked for is asinine because you asking a fan for his opinion. If he really went back and did that would it prove anything to you or would you just respond that he's a homer?

What's easy is to make ridiculous demands of someone as if it is proof of something.

[hogsanity]

Obviously it is easier for some to just complain about the refs than to actually analyse and produce an informed opinion.

In this case I have to side with shadow. We all know the blame the refs crowd like FCJ would say the Hogs should have shot 147 ft's and MSU none.

Funny thing is, we saw almost identical FT disparity against MN, IN BWA no less, so it is not even unprecedented this season.  And we have seen similar games from the Hogs over the past several seasons. Maybe not to the extent of 40-12, but often very wide gaps between the Hogs and opponent FT attempts.

[Randohoggie]

MSU is the least whistled team in the SEC, they may play tough D but they do so without fouling too much. One thing they do not do is slap at the ball.

Do you think that has anything to do with the fact that they have played 12 of 14 games in Starkville?

[LJHOG]

. The Razorbacks must have felt like Davy Crockett when he looked over the wall of the Alamo.
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I'm not sure what pouring concrete had to do with the game.

[forrest city joe]

In this case I have to side with shadow. We all know the blame the refs crowd like FCJ would say the Hogs should have shot 147 ft's and MSU none.

Funny thing is, we saw almost identical FT disparity against MN, IN BWA no less, so it is not even unprecedented this season.  And we have seen similar games from the Hogs over the past several seasons. Maybe not to the extent of 40-12, but often very wide gaps between the Hogs and opponent FT attempts.

Yea i am happy you brought up that MN game. because i was out here on the refs about the BS they pulled that night. the Hogs won in a blowout,and i still got on the refs. so you can't say i just get on them when the Hogs lose. 40 FT to ,says it all. those 3 scumbag refs should be fired for the BS they pulled in that game.

[hogsanity]

Yea i am happy you brought up that MN game. because i was out here on the refs about the BS they pulled that night. the Hogs won in a blowout,and i still got on the refs. so you can't say i just get on them when the Hogs lose. 40 FT to ,says it all. those 3 scumbag refs should be fired for the BS they pulled in that game.

Believe me Joe, we ALL know you talk about the refs all the time because you have NO FREAKING CLUE about actually calling a game.

[Randohoggie]

In this case I have to side with shadow. We all know the blame the refs crowd like FCJ would say the Hogs should have shot 147 ft's and MSU none.

Funny thing is, we saw almost identical FT disparity against MN, IN BWA no less, so it is not even unprecedented this season.  And we have seen similar games from the Hogs over the past several seasons. Maybe not to the extent of 40-12, but often very wide gaps between the Hogs and opponent FT attempts.

That is one game, but it also had a rational explanation ... MN was a team with strong inside players.  MSU is not. 

Also as to the FT disparity thing ... Arkansas is fourth in the SEC in FT attempts.  Even after the 40-12.  We have shot more FTs than our opponent in every game except this one and UNC.

[forrest city joe]

Believe me Joe, we ALL know you talk about the refs all the time because you have NO FREAKING CLUE about actually calling a game.

I can see. i know one team is not doing all the fouling. 40 FT to 12. that is a flat out blatant disgrace. those 3 refs suck!.all three of them should be fired.

[hogsanity]

that is a flat out blatant disgrace. those 3 refs suck!.

But you say that EVERY GAME. It loses it's impact when it is said every game.

And you see what you want to see.

[forrest city joe]

But you say that EVERY GAME. It loses it's impact when it is said every game.

And you see what you want to see.

Wrong. prove i say it after every game.PROVE IT! you won't because you can't. i call it like i see it. while you hate Mike Anderson so much that you hope they keep calling like this so Mike and the Hogs will keep losing.you lost the battle trying to get him fired.but you keep on trying. you will fail again.

[hogsanity]

Wrong. prove i say it after every game.PROVE IT! you won't because you can't. i call it like i see it. while you hate Mike Anderson so much that you hope they keep calling like this so Mike and the Hogs will keep losing.you lost the battle trying to get him fired.but you keep on trying. you will fail again.

you are either fake or delusional, I just can't figure out which.

You just said you were complaining about the refs after a blow out win.

[Randohoggie]

you are either fake or delusional, I just can't figure out which.

You just said you were complaining about the refs after a blow out win.

Yeah, the refs can be bad, even when you win.  Hard to believe.  They were bad at MSU.  Really bad. 

Your reasoning on these threads is specious at best.  You are clearly the most biased observer in all these discussions about the refs, as you never acknowledge bias.  Apparently this is because you are a ref, which is sad for you, but whatever.

[hawginbigd1]

How many plays did you see that should have resulted in free throws for us that did not?

How many plays did you see that resulted in free throws for them, that should not have?

Break that down and come back and we can discuss.

There was at least 3 offensive Boards they got away with a pretty blatant push, I can only recall 1 or 2 fouls I thought to be bogus against us, but the game was called unevenly, I agree with Wally as a matter of fact I said it to my friend, there has never been a game I have witnessed at any level where there should be this large a foul discrepancy. Been watching, playing, coaching, and or officiating for around 40+ years. More often than not there will be a discrepancy, but it should never look like this. All of this to say we lost the game, the refs did not cause us to lose the game, I have seen very, very few games that officiating has cost someone a game. UNC game is maybe one of those, but still we had opportunities to win that game.

[forrest city joe]

you are either fake or delusional, I just can't figure out which.

You just said you were complaining about the refs after a blow out win.

You said every game. you lied.

[The_Iceman]

When one team is known for a slow pace and attacking off the dribble, and the other team is known for aggressive pressure defense and jump shooting, the result will likely be a large gap in fouls and free throws.

If the same thing happens at Auburn, then a serious complaint is warranted since they play similar to us.

[Biggus Piggus]

Groover is one of Arkansas 's perennial violators.

[hobhog]

When one team is known for a slow pace and attacking off the dribble, and the other team is known for aggressive pressure defense and jump shooting, the result will likely be a large gap in fouls and free throws.

If the same thing happens at Auburn, then a serious complaint is warranted since they play similar to us.

I'm with you. We play aggressive and foul a lot. The disparity last game is shocking but I never felt we were getting robbed during the game. Sure, a call or two here or there, but I can't think of any particular play that was completely whiffed on like the UNC game last year. Auburn should be interesting.

[hogfan10]

Obviously it is easier for some to just complain about the refs than to actually analyse and produce an informed opinion.

A better question might be, how does Arkansas not get in the 1 and 1 in either half. As you know fouls after reaching the penalty result in FTs, whether the foul was committed around the basket or at half court. The question is how did MSU manage to play "in your face" defense for the majority of the game, crash the boards, and block 8/9 shots without being called for hardly any fouls. It was a physical game on both ends, the foul totals don't show that.

[The_Iceman]

The problem with Arkansas is the senseless fouling. Fouling actually goes against what we are trying to do. Stoppages in play kill momentum and give slower teams a chance to set up and catch a break.

Even at the expense of a couple of turnovers, if we focused on not fouling it would cause a lot of teams to wear down quickly and get them to play more our style.

[hobhog]

Note how the article about poor defensive rebounding hasn't been mentioned. That and turnovers cost us that game IMO.

[hogfan10]

When one team is known for a slow pace and attacking off the dribble, and the other team is known for aggressive pressure defense and jump shooting, the result will likely be a large gap in fouls and free throws.

If the same thing happens at Auburn, then a serious complaint is warranted since they play similar to us.

True, but we shot fewer 3 pointers than they did. We were the team driving to the basket more.

[hogfan10]

you are either fake or delusional, I just can't figure out which.

You just said you were complaining about the refs after a blow out win.

It's possible for the refs to be bad in games we win too.

[stronguard]

Im not always with Joe on some of his nonsense, but he hit the nail on the head with this one.  It started after a phantom call on their big man where he was called for a block at about the 15 minute mark of the 1st half.  After that it was like the refs were in permanent make up call mode.  Huge discrepancy in what they would allow the Hogs to get away with compared to the Dogs.  Now, that being said, we lost because our guard didn't shoot well, and one of our subs (no names) found a way to turn the ball over every time he touched it. 

[Randohoggie]

Note how the article about poor defensive rebounding hasn't been mentioned. That and turnovers cost us that game IMO.

This makes no sense to me.  People just attribute the loss to what they want to make their argument.  ALL of those things contributed to the loss.  Defensive rebounding, turnovers, FT disparity, plays down the stretch, whatever, BUT ...

Only one of them was glaring ... the FT disparity.  The offensive rebounds, 17-12.  Meh.  They shot bricks from deep all game.  Offensive rebounds will happen.  We lost that stat, but not that badly. Turnovers, again, fairly even.

The FTs were the key to the game.  I don't know why some people are afraid to say that.  We shot better, we rebounded equally, we protected the ball equally .. they outscored us by 19 points at the FT line in a 3 point game.  That is the game.  If people were not so concerned with being pissed off at Anderson and/or our team, they could admit that.  And no, they did not attack more than we did.  They got a few more offensive rebounds, but not that many.

The FTs kept them in the game and they hit two improbable 3s at the end.

[HamIAm]

When one team is known for a slow pace and attacking off the dribble, and the other team is known for aggressive pressure defense and jump shooting, the result will likely be a large gap in fouls and free throws.

If the same thing happens at Auburn, then a serious complaint is warranted since they play similar to us.

You think MSU's defense wasn't aggressive?  They were practically inside our jerseys at times.

I agree we didn't do the things we needed to win. Everytime we started to pull away we would take a low percentage shot or make a wild pass and let MSU right back in the game.

[Randohoggie]

You think MSU's defense wasn't aggressive?  They were practically inside our jerseys at times.

And holding our guards, yes.

[cram224]

I have the game on tape,so don't give me that crap! i know what my eyes saw. and so does Wally and many others.those 3 scumbag refs were garbage! they gave Miss.State that game.

Did you rewind and watch the game again? How many fouls for each team did you spot?

[HogsonHicks]

I've been on this board for over 10 years, and have rarely 1) blamed refs for a loss, or 2) agreed with Joe's rants, but he's spot on this time. That was a pitifully officiated game. The foul and FT disparity between two aggressive defensive teams was atrocious.

[thehill1414]

To those arguing that the fouls were just and our rebounding/turnovers lost us this game - you are absolutely right, we did not perform as well as we could have in those two areas.

HOWEVER, we were whistled for every 50/50 call, every bump, every hand check imaginable. If the refs are going to call it that way, fine. It makes the game less fun to watch, but whatever. Miss St played the same way we did, but in general, were modestly more aggressive, which I believe is the argument for some of you.

I can get behind a foul disparity in this game of say, 30%. Heck I'd even understand if they said we fouled 50% more than they did. But when the foul count is says we fouled 137% more than they did (26-11 I believe), that is undeniably wrong. Then when you consider that fouling is an exponential problem because of the bonus and that they attempted 233% more free throws than us, it's even worse.

These numbers are astronomical. These are numbers that might exist if the Hogs played a D-3 team, or perhaps a high school team who stood no chance of defending without fouling.  The reality is the officials put blinders on when Miss St played defense and called everything they saw as moderately questionable on the Hogs.

[1dayinthelifeofporkiepig]

Back in the day, Boston & LA had several best 4 of 7 series championship finals. When the game was played in Boston, the Celtics won overwhelmingly. Then, when the series shifted to LA, then the Lakers would win overwhelmingly too. Thinking this was statistically impossible (sometimes a fifty to sixty point swing), I figured either the game was rigged or the difference was home town officiating.

So here we are today. Against the MSU Bulldogs, a 40-12 differential in free throw attempts is virtually impossible. However, it happened. So, is the game rigged, home town officiating, or something from the X-Files?

Looks like those referees from the UA-MSU game would have been quite at home judging Olympic boxing.

[niels_boar]

How many plays did you see that should have resulted in free throws for us that did not?

How many plays did you see that resulted in free throws for them, that should not have?

Break that down and come back and we can discuss.

Bailey had a clean block that resulted in 2 made FTs, and the announcer said Macon got hacked on a missed trey.  So, right there is a potential 5-point swing that could have changed the outcome.  Is it really that difficult to cut into a 28-FTA disparity on film to change the outcome of a three-point game?

[The OTR]

I wish a few of the otr historians would do some research and try to see how many people Joe has said need to be fired at some point. 

[beachhog]

I think we should drive more and settle less for jump shots.  We have a guard heavy lineup and so we should be at the FT line a lot more.  I also notice we miss post ups a lot and instead swing to other side for a three.  Drive and dish.

I respect Beard but we are lacking a true PG - floor general. 

What is the skill level of our team.  Are we ablet to produce the results we all want? 

[MemphisBossHog]

Even with the huge disparity in FT attempts,  Ark STILL had the lead with 1:38 to go (75-72) and we gave up a 3 and then a 2 pt jumper and then 1 FT while not scoring again.  AND Ark missed 7 of their 12 FT attempts.   You lose by 3 and miss 7 FT attempts???   Hey, I agree the officiating was one sided.  The refs know they can get away with it cause Mike is just going to look at them and say basically nothing. Nevertheless ARK should have and could have won the game IN SPITE of the bogus officiating but when you cant generate a point in the last min and a half of the game while giving up 3s and other scores, you will lose and that is just what happened. 

I hate that it did cause the Hogs have worked so hard to get their national ranking and it will be gone after they lose to Auburn.  Auburn is no slouch and beat Tenn in Knoxville.  They dont have a player over 6-8 but they hustle and fly around all over the place and they shoot well. Hogs will have to hit their 3s and hopefully get Gafford to dominate inside if they want to win. 

[MemphisBossHog]

Bailey had a clean block that resulted in 2 made FTs, and the announcer said Macon got hacked on a missed trey.  So, right there is a potential 5-point swing that could have changed the outcome.  Is it really that difficult to cut into a 28-FTA disparity on film to change the outcome of a three-point game?

I remember Gafford getting a point blank dunk blocked simply because he tried to tomahawk it and brought the ball way behind his back and Witherspoon (one of them) was able to simply knock it out of his hands.   If he dunks that ball, there is 2 more points plain and simple. Hogs made only 5 of 12 FTs.  That is a BIG problem.  They have got to better at the line.  Those are free points that are being left on the table. Their FT misses alone could have won the game easily.   

Look, Ark still should have won the game.  Ark is a better team than MSU right now.  The huge disparity in FTs kept them in the game.  Hogs had a 3 pt lead with 98 secs left and did not score again.  Thats a problem

[HogInThaGrove]

Posted this in another thread I think but it bears repeating:

Almost 50% of the 2 point shots Miss St took resulted in a shooting foul.  Every other freaking shot they took inside the 3 point line, they were fouled on, by average.

That doesn't sound fishy?  Have you ever seen a college team foul the shooter on every other shot they took inside the 3 point line.  And it's not like it was a hack-a-shaq, we weren't facing some huge inside threat, it was Miss St. 

Shady as Hell.