NLR & Greenwood

[NEA_HogFan]

Want to find out how good Greenwood really is?  Do like Siloam Springs did when they had Frazier as their QB and go play one of those Texas teams, then see how they stack up.

Greenwood would have beat Shiloh that year. Shiloh was claiming to be the best team in Arkansas that year and they weren't. They made Arkansas look bad.

[AHorseWithNoName]

I know for a fact there is a kid from VB that transferred to GW for football. Drives 40 mins to go to school because he thinks he'll get more looks at GW vs VB.

But Jones is an awesome coach. But they are most definitely getting kids in there from the river valley.

2 or 3 kids out of 200?  Maybe.    What's your point?  Kids/parents do that all the time.  In basketball, soccer, volleyball, baseball.  Who cares?

[AHorseWithNoName]

What percentage of the professional/executive/upper working class of fort smith would you estimate resides in Greenwood?


Enough $$$, support, and move ins can make for great HS football


Is what it is.  Same factors make el dorado and pine bluff shells of their former selves.

Maybe 15-20%   The more you talk about Greenwood, the more evident it is that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.  Greenwood is a close-nit community.  I can tell there are some true Greenwood people here, that know what they're talking about.  You really should stop talking about things you know nothing about. 

[hogsanity]

2 or 3 kids out of 200?  Maybe.    What's your point?  Kids/parents do that all the time.  In basketball, soccer, volleyball, baseball.  Who cares?

It has two impacts, one it lets a school like GW concentrate talent, AND it takes away talent from other schools which weakens those programs.

[AHorseWithNoName]

It has two impacts, one it lets a school like GW concentrate talent, AND it takes away talent from other schools which weakens those programs.

"concentrate talent"?   So one or two kids going to GW instead of Southside is what makes Southside so bad?  Interesting theory. 

[AHorseWithNoName]

Most parents whose kid goes to Greenwood works in Fort Smith.  Many parents have moved into the Fort Smith "district" or area to be closer to work.  Their kid just stayed in the Greenwood school system.    So all you "Greenwood recruits players from fort smith" conspieracy theorists, are wrong.   Just because a kid goes to Greenwood and lives in Fort Smith, doesn't mean what you think it means. 

[hogsanity]

"concentrate talent"?   So one or two kids going to GW instead of Southside is what makes Southside so bad?  Interesting theory. 

No, what has hurt SS the last two years especially is the have become small and slow, especially in the back 7 on defense. They lost a really good MLB to injury, which hurt, but overall I was shocked when I saw them up close at how small and slow they were.

What I meant by concentrate talent is that if when they pick up one or two really good players from school A, and a couple more from School B, and one from C, and maybe one or 2 more from d & e, they are concentrating the talent that should be spread around among those other schools.

And it is not just GW and it is not always kids going from a big school to another big school. Sometimes they go from a big school to a smaller school to get playing time or be the big fish in a small pond. I know for fact some kids have left VB to do just that.

[hogsanity]

I think this is the thing that sets Greenwood apart from so many other communities.

Meanwhile all the other towns like FS & VB are playing daddy ball at the youth level in the boys clubs, and the kids are not learning alot.  When my oldest started playing in 7th grade the coach asked me if he'd played boys club. I said no, and the coach said " good, we won't have near as many bad habits to break. ".

[Grizzlyfan]

Meanwhile all the other towns like FS & VB are playing daddy ball at the youth level in the boys clubs, and the kids are not learning alot.  When my oldest started playing in 7th grade the coach asked me if he'd played boys club. I said no, and the coach said " good, we won't have near as many bad habits to break. ".

Yes.  A lot of truth in this.

[zebradynasty]

Yes, we witnessed the support that Pine Bluff players have first hand at the State Championship game.  Mid way through the 3rd quarter, their "supportive fans" started leaving the game......in droves.   Maybe 300 fans left at the end of the game.   That "give-up" attitude is a big problem.   And that attitude is "taught".

Are you kidding me!? Pine Bluff played in 5 of the last 6 Championship. In 2014 and 2015 championship games in which PB played in they were the most attended games regardless of classification! What give up attitude are you talking about?

[hogsanity]

Yes.  A lot of truth in this.

In Vb a few years ago the HS coach wanted to start something like they ave in GW at the youth level, they tried it one season and then the parents revolted. The "coaches" did not like basically being told what lays to run, what drills t use, etc. They wanted to show their coaching skills by running triple revers flea flickers, or the tried and true pee wee football offense of give it to the fast kid and just let him run around until the defense gets bored and goes off to chase butterflies.

[AHorseWithNoName]

No, what has hurt SS the last two years especially is the have become small and slow, especially in the back 7 on defense. They lost a really good MLB to injury, which hurt, but overall I was shocked when I saw them up close at how small and slow they were.

What I meant by concentrate talent is that if when they pick up one or two really good players from school A, and a couple more from School B, and one from C, and maybe one or 2 more from d & e, they are concentrating the talent that should be spread around among those other schools.

And it is not just GW and it is not always kids going from a big school to another big school. Sometimes they go from a big school to a smaller school to get playing time or be the big fish in a small pond. I know for fact some kids have left VB to do just that.

On the current Greenwood roster, i can tell you of maybe 4 kids who came in from other schools.  Not this year, but over the past few years.  Greenwood is not poaching talent.  I can promise you that 100%.  They are taking the kids they have, who have grown up in "the system" since 3rd grade, and just plugging them into the system.    Had 6 or 8 juniors at my house the other night.  All have lived in GW since kindergarten.  I asked them about the holes to fill from the seniors leaving next year.    They just started naming off names.  I hadn't heard of half of these kids.  But they were saying "this kid will be as good as the senior he's replacing" etc.   There is no magic kids coming into Greenwood year in and year out.  99% of them have grown up here.  And honestly, they don't want kids coming into their system.  They don't want kids who haven't earned the right to play for Greenwood.  That's their mentality. 

[AHorseWithNoName]

Are you kidding me!? Pine Bluff played in 5 of the last 6 Championship. In 2014 and 2015 championship games in which PB played in they were the most attended games regardless of classification! What give up attitude are you talking about?

The Pine Bluf fans gave up on the kids in the state championship game.  They started leaving during the 3rd quarter.  That's a "give up" mentality.  The fans quit on the kids on the field.  Period.   There were only 300 or so fans left at the end of the game.   What's your reason for that?

[hogsanity]

On the current Greenwood roster, i can tell you of maybe 4 kids who came in from other schools.  Not this year, but over the past few years.  Greenwood is not poaching talent.  I can promise you that 100%.  They are taking the kids they have, who have grown up in "the system" since 3rd grade, and just plugging them into the system.    Had 6 or 8 juniors at my house the other night.  All have lived in GW since kindergarten.  I asked them about the holes to fill from the seniors leaving next year.    They just started naming off names.  I hadn't heard of half of these kids.  But they were saying "this kid will be as good as the senior he's replacing" etc.   There is no magic kids coming into Greenwood year in and year out.  99% of them have grown up here.  And honestly, they don't want kids coming into their system.  They don't want kids who haven't earned the right to play for Greenwood.  That's their mentality. 

Look, I am not trying to claim that GW is what it is because of poaching players, but I am not going to act like it does not happen either.

GW is mainly doing it by exactly what people in this thread have said, starting kids in the system in 2nd or 3rd grade and having youth coaches willing to do that.  FS and VB SHOULD do something similar, but the daddies that think they are Saban or Meyer won't allow it.

[RazorPiggie]

Meanwhile all the other towns like FS & VB are playing daddy ball at the youth level in the boys clubs, and the kids are not learning alot.  When my oldest started playing in 7th grade the coach asked me if he'd played boys club. I said no, and the coach said " good, we won't have near as many bad habits to break. ".

I believe VB has adopted the GW philosophy. I know they don't do the boys and girls club (for football and basketball) anymore I believe its the school they attend.

[pumphog]

Greenwood it not growing into Fort Smith. they are growing more to the east. Fort Smith is growing south into Greenwood mainly because of areas like Riley Farms and Chaffee. Only place Fort Smith can go. What Fort Smith is doing is moving into school districts already occupied by Greenwood.  Fort Smith hasn't  built a new school in years, Greenwood on the other hand is building new or adding to existing schools all the time. I Have lived here right on the line for 60 plus years and poured concrete and built here for almost the entire 60.  The reason Greenwood does so well is entirely because of Coach Jones and his entire staff. Met him when he first came to Greenwood. My son played for him, just a second teamer but I was impressed with him the minute I met him.  Quality individual, Family man loves his players like there his own.

[AHorseWithNoName]

Look, I am not trying to claim that GW is what it is because of poaching players, but I am not going to act like it does not happen either.

GW is mainly doing it by exactly what people in this thread have said, starting kids in the system in 2nd or 3rd grade and having youth coaches willing to do that.  FS and VB SHOULD do something similar, but the daddies that think they are Saban or Meyer won't allow it.

Greenwood starts their kids in 3rd Grade.  Pitbulls.  Jones knows all the coaches.  And by the 5th or 6th grade knows what kids are gonna be his skill players.  They run watered down versions of what they will run later on in 7th, 8th grade.  It's a robotic system almost.  From 3rd grade until they win State as a senior in high school.   1% of the success has to do with having talented kids move into the district. 

[zebradynasty]

The Pine Bluf fans gave up on the kids in the state championship game.  They started leaving during the 3rd quarter.  That's a "give up" mentality.  The fans quit on the kids on the field.  Period.   There were only 300 or so fans left at the end of the game.   What's your reason for that?

I can assure you those kids don't feel like the fans gave up on them. PB is use to winning, players don't expect our fans to sit in the stands while we get mercy ruled (because it almost never happens)! However, when we mercy rule people our fans leave early it's just what we do! If your kid gets traumatized by fans leaving...then maybe they should transfer to schools who's fans sit out there like a jackazz in a hail storm down by 30 points! In other words all is good in the Zebra Nation!

[hogsanity]

I believe VB has adopted the GW philosophy. I know they don't do the boys and girls club (for football and basketball) anymore I believe its the school they attend.

Yea it is school based now, and they play in a league with other school based teams from other towns, but it is still daddy ball. They went to the school based system to avoid drafts.

[RazorPiggie]

Yea it is school based now, and they play in a league with other school based teams from other towns, but it is still daddy ball. They went to the school based system to avoid drafts.

Ok. I knew it was school based but after that I don't know much.


I know this, if Chaffee keeps growing then they will have to put a new HS out there. Especially when the new interstate finally comes in.

[hogsanity]

Ok. I knew it was school based but after that I don't know much.


I know this, if Chaffee keeps growing then they will have to put a new HS out there. Especially when the new interstate finally comes in.

FS will build a new HS just this side of NEVER.  When it was proposed a couple years ago, when they were being GIVEN land for a new HS at Chaffee, the freak out was quick and enormous. The usual reasons were trotted out " It will kill NS " " it won't be fair to have a state of the art HS when NS and SS need updating" but above all it would hurt sports at both NS and SS and likely move them down from 7a. The booster clubs at both schools moved quickly to end the crazy talk of a new hs.

[IronHog]

Maybe 15-20%   The more you talk about Greenwood, the more evident it is that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.  Greenwood is a close-nit community.  I can tell there are some true Greenwood people here, that know what they're talking about.  You really should stop talking about things you know nothing about. 

Done had one poster tell me I don't know Nuthin bout Rison after I watched Melvin Bradley almost kill little Oscar and the little smart mouth kid short arm a sure TD


I haven't said anything bad about Greenwood.  It's just well coached rich kid football

[AHorseWithNoName]

Done had one poster tell me I don't know Nuthin bout Rison after I watched Melvin Bradley almost kill little Oscar and the little smart mouth kid short arm a sure TD


I haven't said anything bad about Greenwood.  It's just well coached rich kid football

Again, you don't know anything about Greenwood.  It's obvious.   You know just enough to be annoying.   You'll make someone a good wife one day. 

[IronHog]

Again, you don't know anything about Greenwood.  It's obvious.   You know just enough to be annoying.   You'll make someone a good wife one day. 

Can't hide money



Pine Bluff was a youth sports machine like that back when it was still a money town.....the rotting down little league fields with real dugouts, press boxes, bull pens etc are still there.....almost like that world after people TV show.

[hogsanity]

Can't hide money



Pine Bluff was a youth sports machine like that back when it was still a money town.....the rotting down little league fields with real dugouts, press boxes, bull pens etc are still there.....almost like that world after people TV show.

Isn't PB the only place in AR that still has a genuine Little League baseball program, I mean actually still sanctioned by Little League?

Again, you don't know anything about Greenwood.  It's obvious.   You know just enough to be annoying.   You'll make someone a good wife one day. 

There is no doubt the better programs in the state are from areas that are fairly well off or at least have higher property tax values and booster clubs that pour in lots of money.

[IronHog]

Isn't PB the only place in AR that still has a genuine Little League baseball program, I mean actually still sanctioned by Little League?

There is no doubt the better programs in the state are from areas that are fairly well off or at least have higher property tax values and booster clubs that pour in lots of money.

I think there is a fraction of one little league hanging on in Chapel. Not sure about white hall.  YMCA choked off the little leagues years ago.....it just closed.


Far cry from 30 years ago when the spring sky glowed with lights from baseball fields and hundreds of kids were seen around town in professional quality uniforms.

[hogsanity]

I think there is a fraction of one little league hanging on in Chapel. Not sure about white hall.  YMCA choked off the little leagues years ago.....it just closed.


Far cry from 30 years ago when the spring sky glowed with lights from baseball fields and hundreds of kids were seen around town in professional quality uniforms.

I just knew I had seen PB in the LLWS regionals a couple of times fairly recently. I umpire a ton all over the state and never run into LL anywhere else.

[IronHog]

I just knew I had seen PB in the LLWS regionals a couple of times fairly recently. I umpire a ton all over the state and never run into LL anywhere else.

Not sure about now.

Back then they'd put 4-5 all star teams out for post season play just from the PB/chapel area.

[cincokids]

Rison is about 15 minutes from Kedron, Mt. Elba, and Mahony's Ferry.

Exactly!  And those aren't the kinds of areas that people want to move to just so that their kid can play football at a 2A school.  Lol
Rison's teams are homegrown, home-taught, home-bred.  They live and breathe football from time they're old enough and that shows in the years and years and years of success that Rison has had.  I don't think we've had a losing season since sometime in the 50's, literally.

NOW....if people were looking for a place to move to for hunting and fishing....then your list is "winna winna chicken dinna!"  Lol

[Dark Helmet Hog]

Greenwood would have beat Shiloh that year. Shiloh was claiming to be the best team in Arkansas that year and they weren't. They made Arkansas look bad.

They weren't even the best team in Springdale... or second best for that matter.

[ricepig]

Isn't PB the only place in AR that still has a genuine Little League baseball program, I mean actually still sanctioned by Little League?

There is no doubt the better programs in the state are from areas that are fairly well off or at least have higher property tax values and booster clubs that pour in lots of money.

Still several LL leagues around, or was recently.

[hogsanity]

Still several LL leagues around, or was recently.

Actual Little Leagues sanctioned by Little League International or just local youth rec leagues that people refer to as little league but are run via boys clubs, or other organizations?

[PLHawg]

In Vb a few years ago the HS coach wanted to start something like they ave in GW at the youth level, they tried it one season and then the parents revolted. The "coaches" did not like basically being told what lays to run, what drills t use, etc. They wanted to show their coaching skills by running triple revers flea flickers, or the tried and true pee wee football offense of give it to the fast kid and just let him run around until the defense gets bored and goes off to chase butterflies.

I know all too well what you're talking about.  Both of my boys played in the VB system (one only played in 5th and 6th grade).  The little league coaches quickly identified their one or two bell cows and the whole emphasis of every game was for those one or two boys to touch the ball every play, thus giving the team the best chance to win.  Developing the other players wasn't (and still isn't) a priority, which is why you see kids in VB high school who show up in 10th grade that have no speed and don't know how to tackle, block, etc.  Ironically the younger VB teams routinely beat the younger Greenwood teams because the Greenwood teams don't emphasize winning at that age, but learning the system.
The definitition of insanity is repeating the same things over and over that obviously don't work.  Rick Jones has a system, and it's beyond me why the other area coaches don't do everything that they can to clone it.

[hogsanity]

I know all too well what you're talking about.  Both of my boys played in the VB system (one only played in 5th and 6th grade).  The little league coaches quickly identified their one or two bell cows and the whole emphasis of every game was for those one or two boys to touch the ball every play, thus giving the team the best chance to win.  Developing the other players wasn't (and still isn't) a priority, which is why you see kids in VB high school who show up in 10th grade that have no speed and don't know how to tackle, block, etc.  Ironically the younger VB teams routinely beat the younger Greenwood teams because the Greenwood teams don't emphasize winning at that age, but learning the system.
The definitition of insanity is repeating the same things over and over that obviously don't work.  Rick Jones has a system, and it's beyond me why the other area coaches don't do everything that they can to clone it.

Because they do not want to put up with the whining from the daddy ball crowd. I know coaches in the FS boys club that put insane hours into planning their drafts. And I know parents that have their kids tank tryouts so that they won't be a high draft pick by a coach they do not want to play for.

Yep, often GW 3rd and 4th grade teams are not that great when looking at the records, but when they get to the 5th and 6th grade, they just steam roll everyone most years.

[ricepig]

Actual Little Leagues sanctioned by Little League International or just local youth rec leagues that people refer to as little league but are run via boys clubs, or other organizations?

Actual LL, at different times Paragould, Mt. Home, Walnut Ridge, and others in NEA were sanctioned leagues. Some switched back and forth between Cal Ripken and LL, due to competition. Bryant and Benton have done the same, some years LL, some CR. Truthfully, I don't know about the past few years, I haven't had one playing.

[hogsanity]

Actual LL, at different times Paragould, Mt. Home, Walnut Ridge, and others in NEA were sanctioned leagues. Some switched back and forth between Cal Ripken and LL, due to competition. Bryant and Benton have done the same, some years LL, some CR. Truthfully, I don't know about the past few years, I haven't had one playing.

MT Home went cr/babe ruth a few years ago, and I think most of NE AR did at the same time. I know we went to the state CR tournament in Batesville in 2011. All of Western Ar has either gone CR/BR or USSSA LEague play.

[ricepig]

MT Home went cr/babe ruth a few years ago, and I think most of NE AR did at the same time. I know we went to the state CR tournament in Batesville in 2011. All of Western Ar has either gone CR/BR or USSSA LEague play.

Batesville has always been CR, some of the smaller towns in East Arkansas were LL as they didn't like having to play against Jonesboro. I didn't blame them, they had a 2000 population base, going against a 70,000. Of course, it doesn't matter now as Jonesboro still has a CR league, but no one who can chew gum and walk at the same time plays in it, everyone is on a "travel" team.

[hogsanity]

Batesville has always been CR, some of the smaller towns in East Arkansas were LL as they didn't like having to play against Jonesboro. I didn't blame them, they had a 2000 population base, going against a 70,000. Of course, it doesn't matter now as Jonesboro still has a CR league, but no one who can chew gum and walk at the same time plays in it, everyone is on a "travel" team.

Youth rec league baseball is just a desert right now due to travel. I am really surprised they have not figured out a way to do travel football.

[zebradynasty]

I just knew I had seen PB in the LLWS regionals a couple of times fairly recently. I umpire a ton all over the state and never run into LL anywhere else.

That is true PB sent a team to the regionals like 2-3 years ago. Now forgive me for my ignorance on baseball but is Little League and Cal Ripken the same thing? I know PB used to play Cal Ripken but they may have switched up? Don't have as many team as they used to but that is the case all over baseball participation is down especially in the inner city. Shame as we just completed two new baseball facilities for LL.

[hogsanity]

That is true PB sent a team to the regionals like 2-3 years ago. Now forgive me for my ignorance on baseball but is Little League and Cal Ripken the same thing? I know PB used to play Cal Ripken but they may have switched up? Don't have as many team as they used to but that is the case all over baseball participation is down especially in the inner city. Shame as we just completed two new baseball facilities for LL.

No, Cal Ripken/Babe Ruth ( 13 and over is babe ruth ) is not the same as LL, totally different sanctioning bodies and many different rules from age, to field size, to bat specs.

[zebradynasty]

No, Cal Ripken/Babe Ruth ( 13 and over is babe ruth ) is not the same as LL, totally different sanctioning bodies and many different rules from age, to field size, to bat specs.

Ok well I think PB plays Cal Ripken. The kids used to get a kick out of walking into a stadium with ALL African American players. People would stare like they saw a unicorn! The league is still alive and doing OK. Right now we can't seem to figure out how we enjoy so much success at the LL and Sr. Babe Ruth levels but when they get to high school be so mediocre

[hogsanity]

Ok well I think PB plays Cal Ripken. The kids used to get a kick out of walking into a stadium with ALL African American players. People would stare like they saw a unicorn! The league is still alive and doing OK. Right now we can't seem to figure out how we enjoy so much success at the LL and Sr. Babe Ruth levels but when they get to high school be so mediocre

SR Babe is high school age.

Apparently White Hall is still little league sanctioned.

[IronHog]

That is true PB sent a team to the regionals like 2-3 years ago. Now forgive me for my ignorance on baseball but is Little League and Cal Ripken the same thing? I know PB used to play Cal Ripken but they may have switched up? Don't have as many team as they used to but that is the case all over baseball participation is down especially in the inner city. Shame as we just completed two new baseball facilities for LL.

Not that long ago PB had 4 little leagues:

American
National
Eastern
Western
( also international league)

All had full feature fields with sod, dugouts, lights, press box etc.


Eastern is WC softball now.  American and National rotting down.  Western had like 4 teams left a few years ago.

[zebradynasty]

SR Babe is high school age.

Apparently White Hall is still little league sanctioned.

Right we have much better success in SR Babe Ruth than in High school. We've been Dixie League State Champs a couple times. However, we made it out of the first round in high school playoffs last year for the first time since maybe Bock was alive!

[zebradynasty]

Not that long ago PB had 4 little leagues:

American
National
Eastern
Western
( also international league)

All had full feature fields with sod, dugouts, lights, press box etc.


Eastern is WC softball now.  American and National rotting down.  Western had like 4 teams left a few years ago.

Getting old there Hog it's been a LOT longer than you think since Pine Bluff had that many leagues up and running.   Just not as many kids as it used to be.

[ImYourHoggleberry]

that and that many of their boys take a "redshirt" at some point in either elementary of jrhs so they are older than most jr's and sr's. Or they get started a yr later in kindergarten ( which is not a bad idea for boys because they tend to not be as ready for school as girls are at a young age ).

In a thread full of ridiculous claims, this one takes the cake. Nobody is being held back for football. I can't think of one player on Greenwood's team that is behind a year. Also, AAA has an age limit, so they can't play their senior year if they turn 19 before September 1. You, sir, are a moron.

[ImYourHoggleberry]

Yes, we witnessed the support that Pine Bluff players have first hand at the State Championship game.  Mid way through the 3rd quarter, their "supportive fans" started leaving the game......in droves.   Maybe 300 fans left at the end of the game.   That "give-up" attitude is a big problem.   And that attitude is "taught".

In their defense, Greenwood put the mercy rule on Pine Bluff in the 3rd quarter. There was no late game comeback in the cards and everyone knew it.

[Billy Bats]

So let me just break down what I've read in this thread.  Apparently greenwood is good not because of excellent coaching and a winning culture.  They're good because they're rich yuppies who recruit the entire river valley for the best players and they are only legit because they're adjacent to fort smith. 

Do i have that summed up right?  Because that is...the dumbest thing...I've ever heard.  Seriously.  And I've been lurking Hogville for over a decade and I've read some intensely dumb stuff. 

[ImYourHoggleberry]

So let me just break down what I've read in this thread.  Apparently greenwood is good not because of excellent coaching and a winning culture.  They're good because they're rich yuppies who recruit the entire river valley for the best players and they are only legit because they're adjacent to fort smith. 

Do i have that summed up right?  Because that is...the dumbest thing...I've ever heard.  Seriously.  And I've been lurking Hogville for over a decade and I've read some intensely dumb stuff.

Don't forget about the part where parents hold their kids back a year in elementary school to make them older than everyone else. lol

[IronHog]

Right we have much better success in SR Babe Ruth than in High school. We've been Dixie League State Champs a couple times. However, we made it out of the first round in high school playoffs last year for the first time since maybe Bock was alive!

No one plays Sr Babe Ruth anymore


It's showcase ball or maybe legion