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NLR & Greenwood

Started by Grunt, December 15, 2017, 05:08:00 pm

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Billy Bats

Quote from: IronHog on December 16, 2017, 03:55:06 am

And you think Greenwood is running a program off 6k people


More like 100k+ but who is counting right?


They have lots of advantages due to location.  It happens.

You said this.  It's not that simple.  Southside kids who can play aren't going to GWood.  Not how it works.

plumbhog

Quote from: IronHog on December 16, 2017, 04:16:14 pm

Nobody said that......HS programs don't bus or recruit


You think Barton and Rison did all that winning back in the day with kids that just had roots there?
Can't speak for Barton but I promise you, Rison did.
bigdaddyhawg,<br />"Tyler wants to find the short receiver almost every single time.  He rarely even looks down the field. Folks, this IS a problem and it is going to continue to severely limit our pass game."<br /><br />Six days later, Tyler throws for a school record 510 yards against A&M

 

hogsanity

Quote from: Billy Bats on December 16, 2017, 04:18:05 pm
  Southside kids who can play aren't going to GWood.  Not how it works.


Oh yes they are. GW gets kids from all over Sebastian county.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Pig in the Pokey

Quote from: East Clintwood on December 15, 2017, 07:56:25 pm
There are about 1.1 million HS football players in the country and about 1,100 of them are rated  3, 4, or 5 star.  The chance of having multiple star rated players on one team is very remote.
right. but what the op is saying is, there is ONE 2* and ONE 3*... So ALL the rest of those kids are 1*s???
You must be on one if you think i aint on one! ¥420¥   «roastin da bomb in fayettenam» Purspirit Gang

IronHog

Quote from: plumbhog on December 16, 2017, 07:02:51 pm
Can't speak for Barton but I promise you, Rison did.


BS

Those two studs when they beat Shiloh moved in
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

hogsanity

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on December 16, 2017, 07:14:38 pm
right. but what the op is saying is, there is ONE 2* and ONE 3*... So ALL the rest of those kids are 1*s???

The are just a reflection of AR hs football.  From a college football standpoint they are slow, or small or slow and small. They play great team ball, and when playing like competition that is a big advantage. But not many of them have the size and/or speed college are looking for, at least at the fbs level.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

factchecker

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on December 16, 2017, 07:14:38 pm
right. but what the op is saying is, there is ONE 2* and ONE 3*... So ALL the rest of those kids are 1*s???

Usually they are undersized or under-athletic but really fundamentally sound.

You have to remember that stars are based on how well these athletes project to the next level.  You can have a really solid high school offensive line full of 6'2" 245 lbs. kids but none of them will project to play offensive line at the next level.
WORK FOR IT
PLAN ON IT
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OMAHOGS

IronHog

Quote from: hogsanity on December 16, 2017, 07:25:45 pm
The are just a reflection of AR hs football.  From a college football standpoint they are slow, or small or slow and small. They play great team ball, and when playing like competition that is a big advantage. But not many of them have the size and/or speed college are looking for, at least at the fbs level.


Ark football is a lot better than you give it credit for


Burks would go to Dallas and crush those kids too
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: IronHog on December 16, 2017, 07:30:20 pm

Ark football is a lot better than you give it credit for


Burks would go to Dallas and crush those kids too

Yes, any generational type talents would.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

hogsanity

Quote from: IronHog on December 16, 2017, 07:30:20 pm

Ark football is a lot better than you give it credit for


Burks would go to Dallas and crush those kids too

1 player out of 200+ teams.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

IronHog

Quote from: hogsanity on December 16, 2017, 08:07:15 pm
1 player out of 200+ teams.


Everyone in Arkansas isn't 5-3 and run a 5.1

There just aren't many SEC players per capita anywhere
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Billy Bats

Quote from: hogsanity on December 16, 2017, 07:09:20 pm
Oh yes they are. GW gets kids from all over Sebastian county.

No, they're not.  How much time have you spent in Sebastian County?

ImYourHoggleberry

Quote from: hogsanity on December 16, 2017, 07:09:20 pm
Oh yes they are. GW gets kids from all over Sebastian county.

You're wrong. I'd ask for proof, but you can't show any.

 

ImYourHoggleberry

This is a map of the area served by Greenwood School District. There are players with Fort Smith addresses because they are in the Greenwood district, not the Fort Smith district. They aren't school choice students.

https://imgur.com/a/XgKLn

ArmyHog

What a stupid argument. Greenwood is good because of great coaching, tradition and those kids learning fundamentals and hard nosed football at an early age. I'm not from Greenwood but have played and coached against them. They don't always have top talent but they know how to win. Yes, their district does go into the south part of Fort Smith but thats just how the demographics worked out. Greenwood is growing that way. Just like any good program people will find a way to hate on them.

Billy Bats

Quote from: ArmyHog on December 16, 2017, 09:29:18 pm
What a stupid argument. Greenwood is good because of great coaching, tradition and those kids learning fundamentals and hard nosed football at an early age. I'm not from Greenwood but have played and coached against them. They don't always have top talent but they know how to win. Yes, their district does go into the south part of Fort Smith but thats just how the demographics worked out. Greenwood is growing that way. Just like any good program people will find a way to hate on them.

Exactly.  Guys like Ty Storey are winning tons of games in Charlerston but Greenwood is poaching all the best Sebastian county talent lol.

RazorPiggie

Quote from: ImYourHoggleberry on December 16, 2017, 08:51:59 pm
You're wrong. I'd ask for proof, but you can't show any.

I know for a fact there is a kid from VB that transferred to GW for football. Drives 40 mins to go to school because he thinks he'll get more looks at GW vs VB.

But Jones is an awesome coach. But they are most definitely getting kids in there from the river valley.

plumbhog

Quote from: IronHog on December 16, 2017, 07:20:00 pm

BS

Those two studs when they beat Shiloh moved in
OK what two studs are you referring to?
Tyrell Johnson's family has been there forever, Eric Green' s the same, At least 4 or generations of Greys. Bracey did come from Chicago but I'm pretty sure playing football for Rison had nothing to do with it.  So do you have names for the two you're talking about? That team was loaded with studs.
bigdaddyhawg,<br />"Tyler wants to find the short receiver almost every single time.  He rarely even looks down the field. Folks, this IS a problem and it is going to continue to severely limit our pass game."<br /><br />Six days later, Tyler throws for a school record 510 yards against A&M

Billy Bats

Quote from: RazorPiggie on December 16, 2017, 10:26:31 pm
I know for a fact there is a kid from VB that transferred to GW for football. Drives 40 mins to go to school because he thinks he'll get more looks at GW vs VB.

But Jones is an awesome coach. But they are most definitely getting kids in there from the river valley.

No he doesn't. 

RazorPiggie

Quote from: ArmyHog on December 16, 2017, 09:29:18 pm
What a stupid argument. Greenwood is good because of great coaching, tradition and those kids learning fundamentals and hard nosed football at an early age. I'm not from Greenwood but have played and coached against them. They don't always have top talent but they know how to win. Yes, their district does go into the south part of Fort Smith but thats just how the demographics worked out. Greenwood is growing that way. Just like any good program people will find a way to hate on them.

That would be FS not GW.

ronmahony

Quote from: HogHomer on December 15, 2017, 05:36:33 pm
The one team to make Harrison look like 5A champs. You're a good man.

Not the only one, Harrison beats us, Mt. Home pretty bad every year!

"If you are able, save for them a place inside of you and save one backward glance when you are leaving for the places they can no longer go.
     Be not ashamed to say you loved them, though you may or may not have always. Take what they have taught you with their dying and keep it with your own.

     And in that time when men decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind.

IronHog

Quote from: hogsanity on December 16, 2017, 08:07:15 pm
1 player out of 200+ teams.


One player in a state with 2.5 million going to a city of many millions


Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

IronHog

Quote from: ImYourHoggleberry on December 16, 2017, 09:14:09 pm
This is a map of the area served by Greenwood School District. There are players with Fort Smith addresses because they are in the Greenwood district, not the Fort Smith district. They aren't school choice students.

https://imgur.com/a/XgKLn


What percentage of the professional/executive/upper working class of fort smith would you estimate resides in Greenwood?


Enough $$$, support, and move ins can make for great HS football


Is what it is.  Same factors make el dorado and pine bluff shells of their former selves.
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

ricepig

Quote from: IronHog on December 17, 2017, 08:22:07 am

What percentage of the professional/executive/upper working class of fort smith would you estimate resides in Greenwood?


Enough $$$, support, and move ins can make for great HS football


Is what it is.  Same factors make el dorado and pine bluff shells of their former selves.

El Dorado has won 4 rings in the past 9 years, one less than from the Roaring 20's until 1958, seems they've done ok. PB isn't winning SC's at the clip they were in their heyday, but still ok. Are we speaking of the towns, or the football teams?

 

IronHog

Quote from: ricepig on December 17, 2017, 09:02:28 am
El Dorado has won 4 rings in the past 9 years, one less than from the Roaring 20's until 1958, seems they've done ok. PB isn't winning SC's at the clip they were in their heyday, but still ok. Are we speaking of the towns, or the football teams?


Playing down division football.


Pine Bluff had national level football and baseball 25 years ago.
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

#1 STUNNA

would be interesting to see who everyone thinks are the top 10 programs in the state now regardless of class.

Fayetteville
Bentonville?
Greenwood
Pine Bluff
pulaski Academy
Warren
Nashville
Charleston
Junction City
Boonville

I dont keep up much with 7A/6A... im sure i missed some good programs throughout the state though.

RazorPiggie


hogsanity

Quote from: Billy Bats on December 16, 2017, 08:48:40 pm
No, they're not.  How much time have you spent in Sebastian County?

The entire 47 yrs, 10 months and 5 days I have been alive.

I know one of their starters lives in Lavaca. I know another player on their team lives in Fort Smith. I know these two families personally. I know another family with a child in one of the FS HS's but they just started their two younger kids in the GW district this year.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

ricepig

Quote from: hogsanity on December 17, 2017, 01:56:33 pm
The entire 47 yrs, 10 months and 5 days I have been alive.

I know one of their starters lives in Lavaca. I know another player on their team lives in Fort Smith. I know these two families personally. I know another family with a child in one of the FS HS's but they just started their two younger kids in the GW district this year.

So, these parents are enrolling their children for football? I would expect SS has a much better academic reputation overall, I doubt Lavaca is known for theirs.

1highhog

Quote from: plumbhog on December 16, 2017, 07:02:51 pm
Can't speak for Barton but I promise you, Rison did.

I can attest for Rison, they have always had a great Football program and in some years when the right group of kids come along, they can make a serious run at a state championship.  It's one of those close communities that get behind their football team 100%,it's a hard place to go and win a game because they usually have a packed Stadium.

hogsanity

Quote from: ricepig on December 17, 2017, 01:59:42 pm
So, these parents are enrolling their children for football? I would expect SS has a much better academic reputation overall, I doubt Lavaca is known for theirs.

GW has a pretty good academic reputation. The 1st two I mentioned went to GW for football.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

ricepig

Quote from: hogsanity on December 17, 2017, 02:43:51 pm
GW has a pretty good academic reputation. The 1st two I mentioned went to GW for football.

I would imagine SS has more NMSF per capita than GW, though.

1highhog

Quote from: IronHog on December 16, 2017, 07:30:20 pm

Ark football is a lot better than you give it credit for


Burks would go to Dallas and crush those kids too

Burks will be a stud wherever he goes, just like DMAC was.  There's a lot of good talent in Arkansas but it's spread out in some of these really small schools that truthfully it hurts the kids as far as being and athletes, they don't get the best coaching and they don't get to go against top competition week in and out.  They just unfortunately get passed by because of this.  I love the small school systems for many reasons, but that's the one thing that it hurts.

1highhog

Quote from: ricepig on December 17, 2017, 09:02:28 am
El Dorado has won 4 rings in the past 9 years, one less than from the Roaring 20's until 1958, seems they've done ok. PB isn't winning SC's at the clip they were in their heyday, but still ok. Are we speaking of the towns, or the football teams?

Pine Bluff went through a tough run also because of losing two great coaches, Lee Hardman  from the Dollarway program and Marion Glover from the Pine Bluff Zebras.  They were great coaches, after they left the coaches that followed did not hold water to what they were, programs went downhill.  Lee Hardman is now back at Dollarway trying to ressurrect that program and the Zebras are slowly coming back.

island hog

My daughter's HS (Clear Springs HS), approx. 2500 students lost in the playoffs this year to Northshore HS, approx. 4700 students who lost to Katy HS approx. 3100 students, who beat Atascocita HS approx. 3200 students.... there are so many kids in the 6A level (highest level in the state of Texas) high schools down here that there are as many as 10 D1 players on a team.  Crazy talent level with so many kids to choose from. 

IronHog

Quote from: 1highhog on December 17, 2017, 02:58:27 pm
Pine Bluff went through a tough run also because of losing two great coaches, Lee Hardman  from the Dollarway program and Marion Glover from the Pine Bluff Zebras.  They were great coaches, after they left the coaches that followed did not hold water to what they were, programs went downhill.  Lee Hardman is now back at Dollarway trying to ressurrect that program and the Zebras are slowly coming back.


You are talking two decades ago.


Pine Bluff doesn't play in the top classification anymore and Dollarway barely has its own district at this point.
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

zebradynasty

Quote from: IronHog on December 17, 2017, 05:58:48 pm

You are talking two decades ago.


Pine Bluff doesn't play in the top classification anymore and Dollarway barely has its own district at this point.

Pine Bluff's enrollment has dropped but not its success on the field. Since 2007 2 State Championships and 4 Runner-ups. This has pushed the schools playoff victories to over 50 all-time very few schools in Arkansas have reached that level. Pine Bluff has played in 5 of last 6 state 6A Championship games. Pine Bluff is currently in the top 20 winningest football programs in the NATION. By my calculations Pine Bluff is only two victories behind Little Rock Central to become the winningest high school football program in the state of Arkansas ALL TIME. So let's end this talk about the Pine Bluff football program has fallen off!

Now Pine Bluff Dollarway things have been a struggle. Lee Hardman has resigned and they will have a new coach this fall. Enrollment has fallen so far that next classification cycle Dollarway will play in Class AAA. The right coach will bring them back to their winning ways but there is a lot things that need to happen before that.

Grunt

Quote from: 1highhog on December 17, 2017, 02:48:19 pm
Burks will be a stud wherever he goes, just like DMAC was.  There's a lot of good talent in Arkansas but it's spread out in some of these really small schools that truthfully it hurts the kids as far as being and athletes, they don't get the best coaching and they don't get to go against top competition week in and out.  They just unfortunately get passed by because of this.  I love the small school systems for many reasons, but that's the one thing that it hurts.
Also, D1 coaches are skeptical about small-town wonders. I think some of them get over-looked.
The above is likely to be highly biased and may not be defensible.

cincokids

Quote from: IronHog on December 16, 2017, 07:20:00 pm

BS

Those two studs when they beat Shiloh moved in

You don't have a clue about Rison football.  Rison kids play football from the day the get old enough, and they learn it from friends/players/family who also played at Rison and had success.  Success breeds success.
Rison surely doesn't bus kids in, do you even know where Rison is and how far it is from any other school??
If a kid does move in there, it's usually from somewhere far off and because of a family situation.
People don't move to Rison to play football, that's ridiculous.
Sounds like a Shiloh fan that's still butt-hurt over losing that State Championship game.  Get over it.

IronHog

Quote from: cincokids on December 17, 2017, 11:49:42 pm
You don't have a clue about Rison football.  Rison kids play football from the day the get old enough, and they learn it from friends/players/family who also played at Rison and had success.  Success breeds success.
Rison surely doesn't bus kids in, do you even know where Rison is and how far it is from any other school??
If a kid does move in there, it's usually from somewhere far off and because of a family situation.
People don't move to Rison to play football, that's ridiculous.
Sounds like a Shiloh fan that's still butt-hurt over losing that State Championship game.  Get over it.




Rison is about 15 minutes from Kedron, Mt. Elba, and Mahony's Ferry.
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Rzback

Is Pulaski Academy still all out offense like they were a few years back (no punts and always onside kickoffs)?
Winning Percentages (how times have changed!) Frank Broyles 71%  Lou Holtz  74%  Ken Hatfield 76%  Jack Crowe 38%  Joe Kines 35%  Danny Ford 47% Houston Nutt 61%  Bobby Petrino 67%  John L Smith  33%  Bret Bielema 46%  Chad Morris 14%  Sam Pittman 52%

RazorPiggie

Quote from: Rzback on December 18, 2017, 06:33:39 am
Is Pulaski Academy still all out offense like they were a few years back (no punts and always onside kickoffs)?

I believe so.

#1 STUNNA

Quote from: Rzback on December 18, 2017, 06:33:39 am
Is Pulaski Academy still all out offense like they were a few years back (no punts and always onside kickoffs)?

yes.

#1 STUNNA

Quote from: Grunt on December 17, 2017, 11:41:52 pm
Also, D1 coaches are skeptical about small-town wonders. I think some of them get over-looked.

some of the best players for Arkansas the past decade have come from smaller arkansas schools.

DeltaBoy

Quote from: Mike Irwin on December 15, 2017, 08:44:17 pm
Years ago Don Struebing told me a story that demonstrates why some towns consistently produce winning football teams. He said, "When you play football for Springdale you don't appear in public if you lose on Friday night. You go the barbershop, the old men in there will wear you out. You go to Neal's Cafe, it's worse. You gotta go to church and as soon as it's over you better head for the car cause they'll get you there too."

Some places losing is not an option. Winning is part of the culture.

Barton was like that and Frank had a Pop Warner youth football team lead by a pair of dads that was the foundation to all his winning there.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

Grizzlyfan

Quote from: Billy Bats on December 15, 2017, 07:42:20 pm
Haven't been back in a while but from what I remember you start with your class as a pitbull and continue in that system through your senior year.  The development is constant and consistent and by the time it counts you've been playing with the same dudes for a decade.  It's such an effective program.
I think this is the thing that sets Greenwood apart from so many other communities.

texas tush hog

Quote from: Grunt on December 15, 2017, 05:08:00 pm
Ranked 8th and 16th nationally and only one 2 star and one 3 star recruit between them. How is that?


It's called BS.

AHorseWithNoName

Quote from: IronHog on December 16, 2017, 03:43:10 pm

The suburbanite kids with their speed camps, booster club, and youth football beat the fraction of eligible kids from the rotting corpse of what was once one of the best sports towns in the south?


Still way more D1 players at Pine Bluff.  They just won't have a chance with all the support flighted to towns like greenwood.

Yes, we witnessed the support that Pine Bluff players have first hand at the State Championship game.  Mid way through the 3rd quarter, their "supportive fans" started leaving the game......in droves.   Maybe 300 fans left at the end of the game.   That "give-up" attitude is a big problem.   And that attitude is "taught". 
"A man on a horse is spiritually, as well as physically, bigger than a man on foot." — John Steinbeck

AHorseWithNoName

Quote from: hogsanity on December 16, 2017, 07:09:20 pm
Oh yes they are. GW gets kids from all over Sebastian county.

Wrong
"A man on a horse is spiritually, as well as physically, bigger than a man on foot." — John Steinbeck

hogsanity

Quote from: Grizzlyfan on December 18, 2017, 09:20:07 am
I think this is the thing that sets Greenwood apart from so many other communities.

that and that many of their boys take a "redshirt" at some point in either elementary of jrhs so they are older than most jr's and sr's. Or they get started a yr later in kindergarten ( which is not a bad idea for boys because they tend to not be as ready for school as girls are at a young age ).
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE