FSU QB Jameis Winston

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Stupid question, not interesting.

I was actually referring to your Conspiracy comment, although it wasn't actually a question.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Sorry. I thought you were talking about the question to the lawyer being interesting.

No, I thought the reporters question was rather stupid. I'm sure it stirred up the 'Bama faithful.

[nole10591]

anyone in the  universe think the outcome would be any different?

can almost guarantee this kid gets the heisman, wins the NC, and 3  years from now FSU will be hit  mega hard with sanctions. Follow the script!

YOU THINK  ?  Your a DumbA$$ if you really think that.

[twistitup]

2 or 3 semen samples, how many people raped her that night?

She's starting to sound like some girls I used to hang out with, if ya know what I mean!

I think she agreed to #1 & #3 - it was # 2 she said no to.

[Kenny Hawgins]

YOU THINK  ?  Your a DumbA$$ if you really think that.

Interesting...

[urkillnmesmalls]

YOU THINK  ?  Your a DumbA$$ if you really think that.

I like the ironic, albeit accidental while avoiding the censor, use of the $$ symbols. 

[NaturalStateReb]

This from the ABC News story:

"Several people were in the room on the night of the incident, Meggs said, and all were interviewed."

They found someone else's DNA on her clothes as well.  It must have been a scene in that apartment that would make Caligula blush with shame. 

[malibu327]

They found someone else's DNA on her clothes as well.  It must have been a scene in that apartment that would make Caligula blush with shame. 

Ho fo sho.

[the_kosher_pig]

I hit it. 

[Chief_Osceola]

You guys need to read Casher and Darby's affadavits.  Explains what happened.  Also, the timeline of her texts is weird - for someone who had allegedly been raped, she seemed a lot more worried about her lost student ID and room key.  And the changes to her story were odd - first she was drunk, or drugged, then the toxicology reports come back showing zero drugs and a .04 BAL, then she says she was hit in the head and was in and out of it and couldn't remember certain things.  Yet there was no evidence of head trauma.  And her only bruises were consistent with some kind of sexual activity.

If you get a chance, check out the TPD data that has just been released.  Pretty interesting stuff.  Also I think the SAO will be releasing their information by tomorrow as well.

[ghostzapper]

You guys need to read Casher and Darby's affadavits.  Explains what happened.  Also, the timeline of her texts is weird - for someone who had allegedly been raped, she seemed a lot more worried about her lost student ID and room key.  And the changes to her story were odd - first she was drunk, or drugged, then the toxicology reports come back showing zero drugs and a .04 BAL, then she says she was hit in the head and was in and out of it and couldn't remember certain things.  Yet there was no evidence of head trauma.  And her only bruises were consistent with some kind of sexual activity.

If you get a chance, check out the TPD data that has just been released.  Pretty interesting stuff.  Also I think the SAO will be releasing their information by tomorrow as well.

Need links.  Do you have?

[Fort Dweller]

You guys need to read Casher and Darby's affadavits.  Explains what happened.  Also, the timeline of her texts is weird - for someone who had allegedly been raped, she seemed a lot more worried about her lost student ID and room key.  And the changes to her story were odd - first she was drunk, or drugged, then the toxicology reports come back showing zero drugs and a .04 BAL, then she says she was hit in the head and was in and out of it and couldn't remember certain things.  Yet there was no evidence of head trauma.  And her only bruises were consistent with some kind of sexual activity.

.04 BAL:  How long after the incident was the test performed?  .04 is impaired dude.

[ghostzapper]

No it's not, at least for memory recall. 

[ghostzapper]

I think it was three or four hours later that they took blood and estimate of her max level was .1.  That isn't blackout level intoxication.  May get you busted for driving a car, but shouldn't have caused memory issues shec claimed to have.

[Chief_Osceola]

Need links.  Do you have?

Here you go: http://www.talgov.com/uploads/public/documents/assets/news/tpd-documents.pdf

[Fort Dweller]

I think it was three or four hours later that they took blood and estimate of her max level was .1.  That isn't blackout level intoxication.  May get you busted for driving a car, but shouldn't have caused memory issues shec claimed to have.

Who said she was blackout drunk?  Just because you don't think a range of .04-.1 isn't impaired, doesn't make it so.

I don't care if he was guilty or not, but Chief stated in an earlier thread that she had nothing in her blood.  Now it shows their is alcohol.  Now the reasoning is "well, she wasn't blackout drunk." 

[PorcineSublime]

2 or 3 semen samples, how many people raped her that night?

She's starting to sound like some girls I used to hang out with, if ya know what I mean!

2 to 3 "DNA samples", not all of them were stated as "semen samples".  As others have stated this is a miscarriage of justice either way. If there was no rape, then she has ruined a young mans reputation (yes, he didn't have to have sex with her, but bad judgment is not unusual for one his age). If there was a rape, then she has missed out on justice being served because of poor investigative technique.

It takes me back to when HBO did it's first Hard Knocks show and the NFL coach had Tony Dungee come and talk to the rookies. He made the statement to the effect that "No means no, and yes means no in the morning". Pointing out that famous people are often targets.  Not saying that is the case here, but now we may never know. And it will always be with both of them.

[ghostzapper]

Who said she was blackout drunk?  Just because you don't think a range of .04-.1 isn't impaired, doesn't make it so.

I don't care if he was guilty or not, but Chief stated in an earlier thread that she had nothing in her blood.  Now it shows their is alcohol.  Now the reasoning is "well, she wasn't blackout drunk."

She said she was and couldn't remember significant parts of the night.  It is probably the most significant fact about the difficulty of prosecuting her case that has been revealed.

[Chief_Osceola]

@ Fort Dweller - That was from the mouth of the accuser's attorney. Again - She also said in one of the police reports that she was hit in the head and that caused memory loss, yet there was no evidence of head trauma. Apparently she changed her story more than her underwear.

[Hoggish1]

I'm glad this is behind him.  He and his teammates did not let this distract their preparation and it showed, week after week.

Now, take care of business in Charlotte.

[Fort Dweller]

She said she was and couldn't remember significant parts of the night.  It is probably the most significant fact about the difficulty of prosecuting her case that has been revealed.

Again, I'm not disputing that.  I'm not making a statement for or against her ability to recall.  I'm challenging Chief's remarks from this and previous threads. 

I'm addressing Chief's assertion that .04 (with a potential level of intoxication of .1 at the time of the incident) as not being "drunk."  .04 is impaired.  .1 is impaired.  That's my point.  Not whether she should be blackout or able to recall.

[Chief_Osceola]

I never said she wasn't drunk. Her attorney did. I was reposting it. Go back and read the exact post if you still care to argue this. I specifically said 'based off police reports, people in the loop, her attorney statements' (sic).

[Sueie]

If this would have happened at a Fiji house. We would have just burned that thing down.  College kids are not the most educated now days.

[Fort Dweller]

I never said she wasn't drunk. Her attorney did. I was reposting it. Go back and read the exact post if you still care to argue this. I specifically said 'based off police reports, people in the loop, her attorney statements' (sic).

You guys need to read Casher and Darby's affadavits.  Explains what happened.  Also, the timeline of her texts is weird - for someone who had allegedly been raped, she seemed a lot more worried about her lost student ID and room key.  And the changes to her story were odd - first she was drunk, or drugged, then the toxicology reports come back showing zero drugs and a .04 BAL, then she says she was hit in the head and was in and out of it and couldn't remember certain things.  Yet there was no evidence of head trauma.  And her only bruises were consistent with some kind of sexual activity.

If you get a chance, check out the TPD data that has just been released.  Pretty interesting stuff.  Also I think the SAO will be releasing their information by tomorrow as well.

If she still recorded a BAL of .04 3-4 hours after the incident, then she was somewhere between .07-.1 BAL (depending on her weight) at the time of occurrence.  My argument is that she was impaired.

The way you worded it, to me, seemed dismissive.  If that wasn't what you meant, then my apologies.   

[Hoggish1]

You guys need to read Casher and Darby's affadavits.  Explains what happened.  Also, the timeline of her texts is weird - for someone who had allegedly been raped, she seemed a lot more worried about her lost student ID and room key.  And the changes to her story were odd - first she was drunk, or drugged, then the toxicology reports come back showing zero drugs and a .04 BAL, then she says she was hit in the head and was in and out of it and couldn't remember certain things.  Yet there was no evidence of head trauma.  And her only bruises were consistent with some kind of sexual activity.

If you get a chance, check out the TPD data that has just been released.  Pretty interesting stuff.  Also I think the SAO will be releasing their information by tomorrow as well.

Thank you, Chief (r__d r d L L___ / s__ f s f r r___)

[Chief_Osceola]

If she still recorded a BAL of .04 3-4 hours after the incident, then she was somewhere between .07-.1 BAL (depending on her weight) at the time of occurrence.  My argument is that she was impaired.

The way you worded it, to me, seemed dismissive.  If that wasn't what you meant, then my apologies.   

No worries - I'm posting from my phone, which makes it more difficult to express my thoughts in a coherent manner most times. I don't have the luxury of easily re-reading what I type. So, with that said, apologies for not saying what I wanted to say clearly.

[lahawg1]

@ Fort Dweller - That was from the mouth of the accuser's attorney. Again - She also said in one of the police reports that she was hit in the head and that caused memory loss, yet there was no evidence of head trauma. Apparently she changed her story more than her underwear.

Not according to what the state AG said today........daddy must be proud of her now

[twistitup]

In the legal papers it says during the incident that she was on top, if a girl can claim rape after being in the dominant position - we are heading down a slippery slope.

Say she was drunk and so was he - did he get raped?

[twistitup]

Her version ...

According to (redacted) she remembers lying on the bed and the suspect taking her clothes off. stated
she was "kinda incoherent" and was "just laying there". When he started to have intercourse with her,
she stated she told him to stop but wasn't yelling or anything, she was quiet because she felt sick.
stated the suspect started out on top of her but then rolled her over and tried to put her on top of
him but she "just laid there", so he rolled her back over.

Was that the first, second, or third version?

[malibu327]

Since they did both want the intercourse to happen, can we agree that she needs to be held liable for this whole mess? There is surely some kind of law that will back this. This could have ruined the kids life and possibly still could hinder him in some things. She should be thrown in jail to send a message to all the other lying women that the state of Florida don't play this $hit!

[Hoggish1]

If Winston is charged, more than a year after the assault and report, it's a gross miscarriage of justice.

If Winston is not charged, after suffering through a false allegation for more than a year, it's a gross miscarriage of justice.

The absolute incompetence and indifference in this case is astounding.  If you've followed this story, you realize that the police tried to make it go away from the very beginning and their behavior has been unprofessional and unethical, if not criminal, since the beginning.

If the evidence was there to charge him, it should have been done and if the evidence was not there, he should have been cleared as a suspect.  Without an anonymous tip and the story-driven media, there still would not be an investigation.

This from a poster to the NYTimes coverage, the morning after the press conference by Meggs:

   David Hillman
      Illinois

For everyone who thinks Winston is guilty, please answer the following question;

Imagine you are a young woman who has just been raped. You have your cell phone, and it works. Do you...


a) call a friend

b) call the cops

c) call a cab

d) call your parents

e) hop on a scooter -- of all things -- with the rapist, wrap your arms around him, and allow him to give you a ride home ( and then later be unable to describe him beyond being "black" )


The accuser claims that she chose E, which no one can explain nor justify.



Case closed.

[urkillnmesmalls]

This from a poster to the NYTimes coverage, the morning after the press conference by Meggs:

   David Hillman
      Illinois

For everyone who thinks Winston is guilty, please answer the following question;

Imagine you are a young woman who has just been raped. You have your cell phone, and it works. Do you...


a) call a friend

b) call the cops

c) call a cab

d) call your parents

e) hop on a scooter -- of all things -- with the rapist, wrap your arms around him, and allow him to give you a ride home ( and then later be unable to describe him beyond being "black" )


The accuser claims that she chose E, which no one can explain nor justify.



Case closed.

I just think it's wrong to assume in these situations, and it bugs me to no end when other males dismiss the female's story based on other circumstances.  I'm not saying you're doing that, but every situation has different circumstances. 

If at any point, she told him no, and he continued to force himself on her, then that's rape.  No means no...not yes, like you saw in old movies where the male "kisses the female" into a yes. 

You can't know how she felt.  Maybe she felt afraid, and just wanted to get out of there as soon as possible without making waves, and if that meant a scooter ride home without calling a friend and making a scene, then if she said no, it's still rape. 

As Scott posted earlier...most female rape claims are accurate, but the evidence just ends up coming up short of a conviction.  It's sad...but it's reality.  Most of the time it's when women get put into a position they wish they hadn't allowed themselves to be in, and when they realize it and want out, "no" doesn't work like it should. 

It's like walking to a high bridge with the intent to jump, getting there and having an epiphany that things can't get better if you end it all, and turning around and walking away.  Bad idea...no harm.  In the case of most rapes, they feel dumb for going out on the bridge, but they aren't given the opportunity to turn back.  Most don't even report it and blame themselves for putting themselves in that position.  The "I deserved it" feelings come up, and they learn to block it out.  In general, men GROSSLY underestimate how women feel when they are in that position with another human being that is infinitely stronger than them.   

For you young guys out there...if you hear "no" one time...that's enough.  Earn her respect by sympathizing with her, and see where it goes when cooler heads can prevail.   

[PORKULATOR]

I fail to see how this is anyone's business except Jameis, his lawyer, and the police/courts. The guy needs his privacy.

Just sayin'

I'd say its also the business of the young lady he assaulted, her family and friends, and every girl he may be left alone with. I know, I'm ridiculously harsh on rape..., why, Jameis is a college football star, he should be acquitted even if he killed her when he was finished, right?!?!?
The police chief told the girl that filing these charges would make her extremely unpopular and she should really think about this.  Thats criminal on his part just planting the seed.

[Chief_Osceola]

There is no proof she was lying, only a lack of evidence sufficient to take the case to court.

There's also no evidence she was assaulted, outside of her story, which has changed multiple times and has so many holes.  But hey, continue on with your crusade of guilty until proven innocent. 

[Chief_Osceola]

I'd say its also the business of the young lady he assaulted, her family and friends, and every girl he may be left alone with. I know, I'm ridiculously harsh on rape..., why, Jameis is a college football star, he should be acquitted even if he killed her when he was finished, right?!?!?
The police chief told the girl that filing these charges would make her extremely unpopular and she should really think about this.  Thats criminal on his part just planting the seed.

No it isn't.  It's due process.  Ask any attorney or law enforcement againt worth their salt and you'll understand that laying out all situations is standard.  Would you have rather him lied and said everything is gonna be just peachy.

[Hoggish1]

I just think it's wrong to assume in these situations, and it bugs me to no end when other males dismiss the female's story based on other circumstances.  I'm not saying you're doing that, but every situation has different circumstances. 

If at any point, she told him no, and he continued to force himself on her, then that's rape.  No means no...not yes, like you saw in old movies where the male "kisses the female" into a yes. 


   

I'm just pointing out this is a very hazy situation to try and make sense of.  No, means, no.  I'm completely with that as an absolute!

[superior_wang]

its still the good ol US of A. Not enough evidence to even go to trial. Thats how it works folks.

[the_kosher_pig]

The problem isn't whether it was "rape" or not.  It's what constitutes rape. She doesn't have to say no.  She can just say she didn't want it to happen.  The problem at that point is you have to PROVE she wanted it to happen. 
And falsifying a police report is usually a misdemeanor.  They might get probation.  - this was straight from a prosecuting attorney.  Most of it will probably be a by case basis. 

[riccoar]

Glad I'm no longer in the military.  Current male's are being told that female's cannot legally consent if they have consumed alcohol.  In this case I think the alleged victim saw a potential lottery and the forgiving girlfriend knows she has one.

[dacskc]

I just think it's wrong to assume in these situations, and it bugs me to no end when other males dismiss the female's story based on other circumstances.  I'm not saying you're doing that, but every situation has different circumstances. 

If at any point, she told him no, and he continued to force himself on her, then that's rape.  No means no...not yes, like you saw in old movies where the male "kisses the female" into a yes. 

You can't know how she felt.  Maybe she felt afraid, and just wanted to get out of there as soon as possible without making waves, and if that meant a scooter ride home without calling a friend and making a scene, then if she said no, it's still rape. 

As Scott posted earlier...most female rape claims are accurate, but the evidence just ends up coming up short of a conviction.  It's sad...but it's reality.  Most of the time it's when women get put into a position they wish they hadn't allowed themselves to be in, and when they realize it and want out, "no" doesn't work like it should. 

It's like walking to a high bridge with the intent to jump, getting there and having an epiphany that things can't get better if you end it all, and turning around and walking away.  Bad idea...no harm.  In the case of most rapes, they feel dumb for going out on the bridge, but they aren't given the opportunity to turn back.  Most don't even report it and blame themselves for putting themselves in that position.  The "I deserved it" feelings come up, and they learn to block it out.  In general, men GROSSLY underestimate how women feel when they are in that position with another human being that is infinitely stronger than them.   

For you young guys out there...if you hear "no" one time...that's enough.  Earn her respect by sympathizing with her, and see where it goes when cooler heads can prevail.   

Here's a very good article that illustrates what you just described:
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/sexting-shame-and-suicide-20130917
I read this not too long ago (it's very much like the Steubenville rape case). I don't know what happened with Winston and the girl. Maybe she is lying, maybe she's not. I do know that popular athletes would have no problem getting witnesses to side with them, but that doesn't make him guilty in this case. It was probably an impossible case to begin with. Mix young people, too much alcohol, athletes with an inflated sense of importance, and young women with low self esteem and a need to be popular, and something close to this is probably going to happen every year. We just won't hear about it.

[panhandlepig]

 I'm not going to presume to judge any of the participants in this cluster. Whatever happened that night, the specifics, the time-line, the motivation..I think we can all agree it was unsavory and irresponsible on many levels from all parties involved. It happens every Saturday night on college campuses and elsewhere.

  Not trying to be a prude, but teach your sons and your daughters that sex is a wonderful part of being a grown-up but until you are grown-up enough to protect yourself, you get what you deserve sometimes...harsh but true.

[SwazyHog]

[PorcineSublime]

I'm not going to presume to judge any of the participants in this cluster. Whatever happened that night, the specifics, the time-line, the motivation..I think we can all agree it was unsavory and irresponsible on many levels from all parties involved. It happens every Saturday night on college campuses and elsewhere.

  Not trying to be a prude, but teach your sons and your daughters that sex is a wonderful part of being a grown-up but until you are grown-up enough to protect yourself, you get what you deserve sometimes...harsh but true.

Post of the thread. Add in what apparently was a less than efficient investigation and you have two young people who have forever changed lives over one nights partying.

[Chief_Osceola]

But you're certainly suggesting he assaulted her, when there is ZERO, repeat zero evidence that would suggest an assault took place.

[twistitup]

you have two young people who have forever changed lives over one nights partying.

two young people? Last count I thought there were three dna profiles found, plus the girl - that makes four lives changed forever.

[dacskc]

But you're certainly suggesting he assaulted her, when there is ZERO, repeat zero evidence that would suggest an assault took place.

I don't think that's what he's suggesting at all. ( you may be taking this too personally) He's just trying to make a point to people who believe that the fact that he was not charged proves that the sex was consensual. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. All Scott is saying is that the fact that Winston wasn't charged doesn't prove anything. It just means there isn't enough evidence. Who knows what actually happened that night other than a bunch of irresponsibility and drunkenness, I hope all parties learn from this.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Here's a very good article that illustrates what you just described:
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/sexting-shame-and-suicide-20130917
I read this not too long ago (it's very much like the Steubenville rape case). I don't know what happened with Winston and the girl. Maybe she is lying, maybe she's not. I do know that popular athletes would have no problem getting witnesses to side with them, but that doesn't make him guilty in this case. It was probably an impossible case to begin with. Mix young people, too much alcohol, athletes with an inflated sense of importance, and young women with low self esteem and a need to be popular, and something close to this is probably going to happen every year. We just won't hear about it.

Actually, statistics say every 2 minutes. 

Anyone here can do a simple Google search.  The number of women sexually assaulted is 1 in 4, or 1 in 5, based on a few different studies.  That is an amazing number of women.   

[dacskc]

two young people? Last count I thought there were three dna profiles found, plus the girl - that makes four lives changed forever.

Where is the third DNA profile info coming from? All I've heard is Winston and a boyfriend.

[urkillnmesmalls]

I don't think that's what he's suggesting at all. ( you may be taking this too personally) He's just trying to make a point to people who believe that the fact that he was not charged proves that the sex was consensual. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. All Scott is saying is that the fact that Winston wasn't charged doesn't prove anything. It just means there isn't enough evidence. Who knows what actually happened that night other than a bunch of irresponsibility and drunkenness, I hope all parties learn from this.

It's a tough thing to prove without physical evidence, and even with it, often times it still becomes a "he said, she said" situation, which is why the vast majority of women never even come forward when it happens.  They don't feel that the humiliation is worth the chance of the criminal actually being punished. 

Someone earlier suggested that kids need to be educated about their decisions.  ABSOLUTELY.  In theory, a woman should be allowed to wear the scantiest of clothing, flirt and tease relentlessly, and still reserve the right to say no at any point in time.  The reality is, there are rapists out there, and if you make yourself a target, it's just like leaving the keys in your car, or leaving your house unlocked.  The likelihood goes up that you will become a victim.  It DOES NOT make it right, it's just reality.   

[dacskc]

Actually, statistics say every 2 minutes. 

Anyone here can do a simple Google search.  The number of women sexually assaulted is 1 in 4, or 1 in 5, based on a few different studies.  That is an amazing number of women.   

Oh, I agree. I just meant in terms of athletes and how it seems that sometimes there is too much of a vested interest in protecting a certain perception we have of them.