We are poisoning the water we drink. . .

[hogoh]

The state of the board is interesting.  I get the impression that (among the media) the board leadership really led the charge against Nutt starting after last year's Vandy loss, culminating in the GM hire and the Springdale-5 recruiting process.

I get the sense now that some of the board leadership wishes they could turn back the ship on some of the "negativity," for lack of a better word, to see how the season plays out.  They're victims of their own success though - the Five Percent have crossed the Rubicon and found a place where they can talk openly about the state of the program (unlike other boards). They have good reasons to see the glass half-empty, not half-full.

[dana caldwell]

Chances that changing our coach will make Arkansas a NC contender (1 of every 5 years, even) are slim to none.  We cannot realistically compete recruiting-wise against schools with the lure of Florida, with tradition like Notre Dame, with the size of Texas, or with the weather and size of California.  Heck, those schools hardly can do this on a consistent basis.  You guys are setting yourselves up if you believe bringing in a high quality proven coach is going to bring us to prominence.  

We will be the underdog in most of our big games, and that's what makes it so exciting to see us win.  It's what made the Texas game so big every year in the SWC...  All I hope for year-in-year-out is to be good enough to compete.  If we can win a big game or two, then yes, we can contend, as we did in the SWC.  However, the SEC has at least 4 Texas-type schools in an average year, beating 2/4 is a reasonable goal for us.

Does this mean I think HDN is the guy?  Probably not, but don't tell me that bringing in a proven winner will put us there, there are many more obstacles than just that.

i used to think that way. then along came auburn. there is no reason arkansas -- in a small, one-school state -- cannot compete with auburn -- which generally is the second sister in a smallish, two-school state.

i don't expect arkie to challenge for a national title every year or even the SEC overall title. florida, tennessee, LSU and georgia have large advantages over the hogs. no question.

i do believe that it is realistic to compete for the west every year, to begin and finish the season in the top-25 every year and to make some national noise (which means playing in the SEC title game and actually showing up for it; a top-10 spot) every five years or so.

those are not unreasonable expectations and that's what should be happening. that's where arkansas was during hatfield's tenure (i know, i know, not in the SEC, but look back at the records and rankings; seems like 1,000 years ago, but it really wasn't).

[foosaddict]

  Just curious...  Feralhog, in your honest opinion, what effect does all this negativity from the fanbase have on the players themselves?  Do you think it can have a negative effect on our players ability to believe in their own collective ability to rise to the occasion and do WHATEVER it takes to get the win?  I'm not trying to give our leadership a shining endorsement, 'cause frankly the last few years HAVE had some signs of coming apart at the seams.  However I DO think that if we are true hogfans, we'll support Nutt and get behind him at least until the season is over... Then he should be fair game for whatever the fans wanna dish out...  and BTW, anyone who thinks constant complaining is going to affect Frank's decision making is SMOKING the kool-aid, lol!  If we wanna see real change in the football program, FRANK is the one we need to look for a replacement for...  I agree with many of you here that the time has come for Dale to Nutt up, so to speak.  So far, he seems to be doing that.  In the past, my biggest beef with Nutt has been his predictable play calling(which you could make the case that he was only playing the cards he was dealt) but with Gus making the calls and Mitch at the helm, we have a lot to be excited about this year already.  If anything looks iffy this year, its gotta be Herring's poor tackling defense.  I realize that ultimately, its the head coach's fault when ANYTHING goes wrong, but you hafta admit, things certainly don't look as bleak as last year with RJ running the offense.

    BTW, Vandy IS pretty salty this year, look for them to pull some upsets.  Who knew SC would hit the ground running on all cylinders after losing so many seniors?  As far as not running up the score on Utah St, I think it's evident that our coaches are doing everything they can to make Mitch's transition to SEC football, as easy as possible.  It seems to working quite well, so far...  THe real test is in two days...  I can hardly contain myself!!! LOL!  Woo Pig Sooie!!!  :razorback:

[pigture perfect]

It is very simple.  Arkansas fans are tired of the same crap year after year.  I refuse to be positive about any of this.

There is a very simple fix.  Change the head coach.  After that, you will probably see at least three or four years of irrational optimism by all the fans.  The biggest optimists will probably be the former darksiders.

It is not the fans' fault after nine years of this crap. 

It is really funny that after several years of alleged irrelevence that just when this board and others appear to be really bringing some heat and making a difference, we have moderators getting on hear an telling us to tone it down.  I agree with whoever said that nothing will ever change if  we do that.

Nobody is telling you to tone it down, but dredging up quotes that happened ten Friken years ago, just to stir the Calderon is ABSOLUTE BS!  Bitching when something good happens is absolute BS.  If this is the kind of GDAMN board you guys want, then  I'm the hell out of here.

Who dredged up a quote from ten years ago?  Not I, certainly.  You still don't get it.  Nothing good will happen under HDN.  It won't, it can't.  A good win will be followed by a head scratching loss and dissappointing season.  People are tired of it.  Bitching about it is the last step before most of us just give up and quit following the hogs.

Once again, the negativity is not our fault.  There is a simple cure that would excite everyone about the program again.  Agree or disagree, but don't imply that those who are tired of the same old same old and refuse to buy that same used car year after year are somehow worse fans or irrational. 

Oh, I don't get it.  Yeah right.  Because I've chosen to wait and see if this team and coaches continue to jell, all the sudden I no longer get it.  Ok dokie

They won't jell, HDN will screw it up.  I have absolute faith in that.  And by the way, what is jell?  Is the seven, eight, or nine wins or higher.  I'll go on the record and say that I want HDN fired no matter what his record is.  I will also acknowledge that if he wins nine or more that it isn't going to happen and probably shouldn't.  Just don't get on here and tell me or anyone else that this team has jelled when we win eight games because I could coach this team to eight wins with this schedule.

No you couldn't.

[007 License To Squeal]

7.   Doing an incredibly poor job of maintaining good relations with high school coaches in the state and in the region, to the point that some schools are "closed" to HDN and his staff as far as recruiting goes.

Can you say "Warren" ?

[IMAballHawg]

Feral, I don't really know the board rules for admins, etc.  I've read your posts for awhile and certainly respect what you bring.  So, if you say you can delet a post just because YOU don't like it then so be it.

But let me remind you of another BB post sticked to the top of this board right now.  Paraphrased:  About how the two pay boards generally dictate the tone and content of their boards, and also how this board would never be a panderer or adhere to that type of behavior.  Well. . . . Which is it?

Feral you are entitled to your opinion just as Im entitled to mine.  Im with the above poster.  Please dont turn this open message board into your version of HI.  You have a job as moderator, and Im glad we have good mods here, however interjecting your personal opinions all over the place while threatening to run off those who are not marching in step with you will just serve to turn this Open board into a shadow of the HI board.

Dumb quote of the day but true "with great power come great responsibility".   You need to be very careful and very selective with your use of Mod powers.   You must be neutral.   
Because someone says "Houston Nutt sucks as a coach because we beat Vandy by 2 feet" does not give you, as a mod, the right to delete, edit or move their opinion simply because you disagree or dont want to see it.

[Hawgon]

It is very simple.  Arkansas fans are tired of the same crap year after year.  I refuse to be positive about any of this.

There is a very simple fix.  Change the head coach.  After that, you will probably see at least three or four years of irrational optimism by all the fans.  The biggest optimists will probably be the former darksiders.

It is not the fans' fault after nine years of this crap. 

It is really funny that after several years of alleged irrelevence that just when this board and others appear to be really bringing some heat and making a difference, we have moderators getting on hear an telling us to tone it down.  I agree with whoever said that nothing will ever change if  we do that.

Nobody is telling you to tone it down, but dredging up quotes that happened ten Friken years ago, just to stir the Calderon is ABSOLUTE BS!  Bitching when something good happens is absolute BS.  If this is the kind of GDAMN board you guys want, then  I'm the hell out of here.

Who dredged up a quote from ten years ago?  Not I, certainly.  You still don't get it.  Nothing good will happen under HDN.  It won't, it can't.  A good win will be followed by a head scratching loss and dissappointing season.  People are tired of it.  Bitching about it is the last step before most of us just give up and quit following the hogs.

Once again, the negativity is not our fault.  There is a simple cure that would excite everyone about the program again.  Agree or disagree, but don't imply that those who are tired of the same old same old and refuse to buy that same used car year after year are somehow worse fans or irrational. 

Oh, I don't get it.  Yeah right.  Because I've chosen to wait and see if this team and coaches continue to jell, all the sudden I no longer get it.  Ok dokie

They won't jell, HDN will screw it up.  I have absolute faith in that.  And by the way, what is jell?  Is the seven, eight, or nine wins or higher.  I'll go on the record and say that I want HDN fired no matter what his record is.  I will also acknowledge that if he wins nine or more that it isn't going to happen and probably shouldn't.  Just don't get on here and tell me or anyone else that this team has jelled when we win eight games because I could coach this team to eight wins with this schedule.

No you couldn't.

Yes, yes I could.

[Tiredofhogssucking]

Our problems are very simple:  Recruiting!!!  If we get a big named coach, recruiting will have to be improved drastically.  I went back and looked at the last 4 recruiting years and reviewed the players that actually signed and qualified compared to who is still on the  roster today!  And we are only retaining 50-60% of our recruits over a 4 year period. 

Other SEC schools in the upper tier are around 75-80% retention.  What does this all mean!

Unless something changes, Arkansas will continue to field younger teams than the other SEC opponents.  How can you win anything by having Freshmen and Sophomores going against Junior and Senior dominated teams! 

Look it up!  It's quite evident with the Floridas, Georgias, LSUs and Auburns their teams are more seasoned teams and have more depth! 

We also don't have any pipelines built to other states!  I looked up Louisville and was surprised to see how many players they get from Alabama, Georgia, and Florida each recruiting class.  Only 15% of their recruits come from the state of Kentucky. 

What Pipelines does Arkansas have established??

I can't think of any?  In the glory years it was Texas!  Today....?

And I also don't buy the issue of we need to play in Texas to get Texas Players.....

Louisville plays in the Big East and they have outfitted their entire team with Georgia, Alabama, and Florida players?

Shocking!

[TOM "tbw1"]

 

[silvertip]

Here is why Bama fans are alright with a three-point win over Vandy and Hog fans moan and gripe about a two-pont win over Vandy.

Bama has not been as far down for as long as Arkansas.

Bama won a National Championship as late as the 1990s when Arkansas was struggling to three and four-win seasons, and losing at home to Division I-AA The Citadel.

Bama has been to and won SEC championship games since 1990.

Bama has won major televised games against nationally ranked opponents a lot more often than Arkansas has over the last few years.

Bama has beaten Florida recently, whereas Arkansas never has beaten Florida once since joining the SEC.

Alabama has finished the season ranked in the AP Top 25 9 different times since 1990. Arkansas has done it only twice.

That's why.

Bama fans are a lot more optimistic because their football history since 1990 has given them a lot more reasons to be optimistic.

Hog fans aren't evil. Hog fans aren't deluded. Hog fans aren't ignorant about football.

Hog fans are just worn out and tired with all the losing and all the excuse-making for that losing.

Hog fans are tired and frustrated, and have darned good reason to be tired and frustrated.

They are tired of the program being in such a state that a two-point road win over Vandy is seen as a huge, important, watershed victory, and not seen as just a minor bump on the road of an otherwise successful and winning season.

oldbooniehog

You think I don't already know all this stuff?  Do you understand that what you posted gets posted dozens of times daily?  The hogs are showing some signs of being a solid team.  I'll not kick them under the bus, simply because of my skepticism of Nutt.  At this point, there's not a legitimate cause for this over the top criticism, which is skeptical of things that are positive. 

Well, Feralhog, I agree that all the griping & HDN debate gets old. But it's too easy to get sucked into it. So, I would like to point out something & would appreciate a reply.

I have been TRYING to be patient & see how the season plays out. But as I have posted several times, a BIG part of the excess of pro-con HDN threads, is brought on by a few huggers who keep on & keep on starting threads trying to prove what a great coach HDN is, or how the Hawg program is/always has been, nothing more than a mediocre program that can't recruit/compete with the Big Boys.

I have stated several times that I will shut up about the coach if these guys would just leave it alone. You can find me in the thick of the debate, but you will never/seldom see me start a thread on this worn out topic.

So, Feral, how about, while looking to trash-can threads that just want to whine---would you also be on the lookout for these same old repetitious hugger threads that are constantly stirring the pot? Thanks for your efforts.  WPS!!

[Flatfoot]

Like Biggus posted the other day, whatever happens, happens.  One thing I've noticed among fans in the SEC is that most of them are pumpers for their team.  Spend some time on the TTFourm.com like I have and you'll see fans talking SEC Championships, and imo Bama has about as much chance winning the SEC this year as Arkansas. 

But reading that board something that should be obvious occurred to me.  At this point anything can happen. If you look at our schedule, the only seemingly invincible team in the West is Auburn, and imo we catch a HUGE break by having 2 weeks to prepare for them.   

A win Saturday could do several things, the least of which is Gus becoming more settled with himself and  and the other coaches.  Look, some of these coaches may have big egos, but Gus made some really nice calls last Saturday and you know some of his skeptics recognized those calls. 

Could hog fans be poisoning their own water?  We are looking for things to gripe about when Markuson reaching out to Gus after the game, is met with extreme skepticism.  We are looking for things to gripe about if we go ape because the staff celebrates a win over Vanderbilt.  In light of the pressure these guys were under to win, it's hard to imagine a different reaction by the coaches, and in the heat of the moment, I doubt Markuson had the forethought to take advantage of a Kodak moment, and hug Gus.

We should be happy to see signs that MM and GM are starting to show one another respect.  We should be happy the coaches are reacting to wins like they're important.  We should be happy that we are 1-0 in the SEC.  We should be happy that our schedule is favorable, even against our toughest opponent.   

We big bad Arkansas fans want to make sure the whole college football world knows that we are objective fans.  I'm starting to wonder if what's going on with our fans is objective or just stupid.  Why is it that fans from Alabama are completely alright with a 3 point win against Vanderbilt at home, and Arkansas fans moan?  Is it objectivity or could it be that Bama fans understand the SEC a bit better?

So by damn, I'm taking off my dark helmet, for now.  If the season goes into the tank, and the powers that be don’t take action, then I’m done anyway.  For now, I'm gonna give this team time to grow, the coaches a chance to come together, and hope for a hogs win against Bama on Saturday.

And one last thing.  You want to gripe about calls or what took place in the game, that's one thing,  and the stuff that's already up will be grandfathered in, but from this point on, posts just looking for stuff to bitch about will end up in the trash, at least when I'm on the board.  There's enough things to be critical of as it is.

Feral, I don't really know the board rules for admins, etc.  I've read your posts for awhile and certainly respect what you bring.  So, if you say you can delet a post just because YOU don't like it then so be it.

But let me remind you of another BB post sticked to the top of this board right now.  Paraphrased:  About how the two pay boards generally dictate the tone and content of their boards, and also how this board would never be a panderer or adhere to that type of behavior.  Well. . . . Which is it?

+1 to you. 

Squashing someone's opinion will only hinder a true collaberation between ideas.  Who doesn't get upset when you feel it in your bones that you are on the mark, and the next person is just opposite.  That is what's good about this board.  Not Clay Henry Nutt's board.

[pikehog]

I don't know how many mods we have here, but it may be a case of too many cooks in the kitchen. it appears that the right hand and left hand can do separate things.

I will agree however that I am tired of the same nuttsucks/nuttisperfect threads that rehash the same thing over and over. Not sure if there is a solution, or if we just have to deal with it.

[DeltaBoy]

Lord I hope not.  GO GUS GO Herring
Let's Phi Slam-ma Jam-ma Bamma

[Root Hog]

If Alabama experienced the nine years that Arkansas has, and the man responsible for it was still occupying Paul Bryant's office, Tuscaloosa would be BURNING.  The government would have to declare martial law.

[GuvHog]

If Alabama experienced the nine years that Arkansas has, and the man responsible for it was still occupying Paul Bryant's office, Tuscaloosa would be BURNING.  The government would have to declare martial law.

There, my fellow Hogvillian, lies the rub. You and others insist that HDN must bear ALL
the responsibility for the current state of the Hog football program. I do agree that HDN
bears a great deal of the responsibility but not all of it. If you seriously think that firing
HDN wiil solve even half of the Football programs problems, you are sadly mistaken.

[hogfan1]

It was further up in this thread that someone mentioned how much better AL had been than AR recently.  For last year, that was definitly true.  Their defense was great last year, but I went back and looked at the records since 98 (since  Nutt got here since that seems to be the frame of reference for most everything about how bad the hogs are).  Here are the records:
   
        AL        AR
98    7-5       9-3
99    10-3     8-4
00    3-8       6-6
01    7-5       7-5
02    10-3     9-5
03    4-9       9-4
04    6-6       5-6
05    10-2      4-7
Total 57-41    57-40

I am amazed how close the total numbers are.  Three years AR has had a better record and 4 years AL has had a better record, with one tie.  They had two years recently (03-04) that were very similar to our last two years.  The other thing that jumps out is that they have had three 10 win seasons and we have had none.  One final note is that Nutt is 4-4 against Bama.

I don't know that there are many conclusions that can be drawn from these numbers, other than we are about equal over this period of time, and how much difference a ten win season can make for the fans following two bad years.

BTW, I'm with Ferral on the original post.   
   

[TOM "tbw1"]

Guv,

Do you think it is an administrative problem or a coaching problem?  If it is both, then how will the problem be fixed if HDN is Athletic Director as you call for?

There are two coaches (Campbell and Malzahn) who need to kept on and Coach Grey needs to be AD.  It should be U-Haul city for the rest.

[williamsB]

I don't like Chuck Dicus.......does that get me a darksider badge?

[jackwalker]

What's our overall SEC record against bama?

[TOM "tbw1"]

I think your record shows the real problem.  With a program that has had the coaching and recruiting turmoil that Bama has faced we are only 4-4.  You have to also count a Bama loss where they had a quarterback who was second to Pete Burks as an all time passer.

[GuvHog]

Guv,

Do you think it is an administrative problem or a coaching problem?  If it is both, then how will the problem be fixed if HDN is Athletic Director as you call for?

There are two coaches (Campbell and Malzahn) who need to kept on and Coach Grey needs to be AD.  It should be U-Haul city for the rest.

I think a large part of the problem was HDN's insistence on being the HC and OC at the
same time. That has been fixed with the arrival of GM and for the first time in several years,
the Hogs have a good QB coach (AW). Another part of the problem is that the 3 year
NCAA investigation (Not the probation) severely damaged recruiting, making depth a more serious problem than usuall. Recruiting must continue to improve, and I believe it will as more and more of GM's offense is installed. Reggie is overseeing defensive recruiting and I believe we'll see great improvement there too.

[Bogghawg]

What's our overall SEC record against bama?

Our record against Bama since joining the conference is 7-7.

[jackwalker]

What's our overall SEC record against bama?

Our record against Bama since joining the conference is 7-7.

Okay that's what I thought.  We are tied per conference, and per Nutt. Interesting.

[TOM "tbw1"]

Guv,

Do you think it is an administrative problem or a coaching problem?  If it is both, then how will the problem be fixed if HDN is Athletic Director as you call for?

There are two coaches (Campbell and Malzahn) who need to kept on and Coach Grey needs to be AD.  It should be U-Haul city for the rest.

I think a large part of the problem was HDN's insistence on being the HC and OC at the
same time. That has been fixed with the arrival of GM and for the first time in several years,
the Hogs have a good QB coach (AW). Another part of the problem is that the 3 year
NCAA investigation (Not the probation) severely damaged recruiting, making depth a more serious problem than usuall. Recruiting must continue to improve, and I believe it will as more and more of GM's offense is installed. Reggie is overseeing defensive recruiting and I believe we'll see great improvement there too.

So you see no need for future changes?

[EastexHawg]

It was further up in this thread that someone mentioned how much better AL had been than AR recently.  For last year, that was definitly true.  Their defense was great last year, but I went back and looked at the records since 98 (since  Nutt got here since that seems to be the frame of reference for most everything about how bad the hogs are).  Here are the records:
   
        AL        AR
98    7-5       9-3
99    10-3     8-4
00    3-8       6-6
01    7-5       7-5
02    10-3     9-5
03    4-9       9-4
04    6-6       5-6
05    10-2      4-7
Total 57-41    57-40

I am amazed how close the total numbers are.  Three years AR has had a better record and 4 years AL has had a better record, with one tie.  They had two years recently (03-04) that were very similar to our last two years.  The other thing that jumps out is that they have had three 10 win seasons and we have had none.  One final note is that Nutt is 4-4 against Bama.

I don't know that there are many conclusions that can be drawn from these numbers, other than we are about equal over this period of time, and how much difference a ten win season can make for the fans following two bad years.

BTW, I'm with Ferral on the original post.   
   

How many coaches has Bama had during that time? 

That is one of the differences between Alabama and us.  They expect and demand a winner.  If the coach isn't winning, and winning big, he is gone.

Meanwhile, we toss about comments such as "things could be a whole lot worse"..."at least we can beat SMU now"...and "I agree Nutt may not be the best coach we could have, but..."

What's the "but"?  Why would anyone want anything other than the BEST coach we can have...period?

If Gus is going to improve the offense and this football program as a whole with an incompetent head coach in place, how much more could he do with a great coach who is a dynamic recruiter and will help bring in even more talent for him to utilize?

It's all about expectations.  I guess mine are to high to be a "true fan."

BTW, Feral...I understand and respect your opinion.  I would like to feel the same way you do.  Unfortunately, I don't.

I'm glad you have some hope for this program with Nutt in place as head coach.  Maybe you will turn out to be right on this one...but I doubt it.

I just can't see investing any more money, energy, and precious time in Nutt's coaching.  He has been given ample time to show what he can do, and he has only succeeded in proving that he is incapable of winning big in the SEC. 

It is time for the administration to say, "Enough is enough."  It is time to move on and move forward.

[Hawgon]

It was further up in this thread that someone mentioned how much better AL had been than AR recently.  For last year, that was definitly true.  Their defense was great last year, but I went back and looked at the records since 98 (since  Nutt got here since that seems to be the frame of reference for most everything about how bad the hogs are).  Here are the records:
   
        AL        AR
98    7-5       9-3
99    10-3     8-4
00    3-8       6-6
01    7-5       7-5
02    10-3     9-5
03    4-9       9-4
04    6-6       5-6
05    10-2      4-7
Total 57-41    57-40

I am amazed how close the total numbers are.  Three years AR has had a better record and 4 years AL has had a better record, with one tie.  They had two years recently (03-04) that were very similar to our last two years.  The other thing that jumps out is that they have had three 10 win seasons and we have had none.  One final note is that Nutt is 4-4 against Bama.

I don't know that there are many conclusions that can be drawn from these numbers, other than we are about equal over this period of time, and how much difference a ten win season can make for the fans following two bad years.

BTW, I'm with Ferral on the original post.   
   

Well, ten win seasons do make a difference.  They are not mediocre.  Also, how many coaches has Alabama gone through in the time frame?  They are not happy, while we have many telling us that we should be.

[HognotinMemphis]

Like Biggus posted the other day, whatever happens, happens.  One thing I've noticed among fans in the SEC is that most of them are pumpers for their team.  Spend some time on the TTFourm.com like I have and you'll see fans talking SEC Championships, and imo Bama has about as much chance winning the SEC this year as Arkansas. 

But reading that board something that should be obvious occurred to me.  At this point anything can happen. If you look at our schedule, the only seemingly invincible team in the West is Auburn, and imo we catch a HUGE break by having 2 weeks to prepare for them.   

A win Saturday could do several things, the least of which is Gus becoming more settled with himself and  and the other coaches.  Look, some of these coaches may have big egos, but Gus made some really nice calls last Saturday and you know some of his skeptics recognized those calls. 

Could hog fans be poisoning their own water?  We are looking for things to gripe about when Markuson reaching out to Gus after the game, is met with extreme skepticism.  We are looking for things to gripe about if we go ape because the staff celebrates a win over Vanderbilt.  In light of the pressure these guys were under to win, it's hard to imagine a different reaction by the coaches, and in the heat of the moment, I doubt Markuson had the forethought to take advantage of a Kodak moment, and hug Gus.

We should be happy to see signs that MM and GM are starting to show one another respect.  We should be happy the coaches are reacting to wins like they're important.  We should be happy that we are 1-0 in the SEC.  We should be happy that our schedule is favorable, even against our toughest opponent.   

We big bad Arkansas fans want to make sure the whole college football world knows that we are objective fans.  I'm starting to wonder if what's going on with our fans is objective or just stupid.  Why is it that fans from Alabama are completely alright with a 3 point win against Vanderbilt at home, and Arkansas fans moan?  Is it objectivity or could it be that Bama fans understand the SEC a bit better?

So by damn, I'm taking off my dark helmet, for now.  If the season goes into the tank, and the powers that be don't take action, then I'm done anyway.  For now, I'm gonna give this team time to grow, the coaches a chance to come together, and hope for a hogs win against Bama on Saturday.

And one last thing.  You want to gripe about calls or what took place in the game, that's one thing,  and the stuff that's already up will be grandfathered in, but from this point on, posts just looking for stuff to bitch about will end up in the trash, at least when I'm on the board.  There's enough things to be critical of as it is.

No other SEC team is in the ninth year of a head coach with a losing record.  Chances are, none WILL be in the ninth year of a losing record because they won't keep them that long. 

Alabama was 10-2 last year.  Were you expecting them to be griping?  They've done quite well with all the turmoil and probation.  We, on the other hand,....

Do you know why no other SEC school is in the 9th year with same head coach with back to back losing seasons? Because the other 11 SEC teams have gone through a combined 30 head coaches since Nutt has been head coach at U of A. Yes, that's correct...30 head coaches at the other 11 SEC schools in last 9 seasons!!

That's an average of nearly 3 head coaches per team in the last 9 years. Yet, with out octogenarian athletic director who spends more time playing golf at Augusta than time spent on the coaching staff, our program is happy to retain this Nutt for 9 years of mediocrity which has recently been far worse than mediocre.

[JD Hogg]

Like Biggus posted the other day, whatever happens, happens.  One thing I've noticed among fans in the SEC is that most of them are pumpers for their team.  Spend some time on the TTFourm.com like I have and you'll see fans talking SEC Championships, and imo Bama has about as much chance winning the SEC this year as Arkansas. 

But reading that board something that should be obvious occurred to me.  At this point anything can happen. If you look at our schedule, the only seemingly invincible team in the West is Auburn, and imo we catch a HUGE break by having 2 weeks to prepare for them.   

A win Saturday could do several things, the least of which is Gus becoming more settled with himself and  and the other coaches.  Look, some of these coaches may have big egos, but Gus made some really nice calls last Saturday and you know some of his skeptics recognized those calls. 

Could hog fans be poisoning their own water?  We are looking for things to gripe about when Markuson reaching out to Gus after the game, is met with extreme skepticism.  We are looking for things to gripe about if we go ape because the staff celebrates a win over Vanderbilt.  In light of the pressure these guys were under to win, it's hard to imagine a different reaction by the coaches, and in the heat of the moment, I doubt Markuson had the forethought to take advantage of a Kodak moment, and hug Gus.

We should be happy to see signs that MM and GM are starting to show one another respect.  We should be happy the coaches are reacting to wins like they're important.  We should be happy that we are 1-0 in the SEC.  We should be happy that our schedule is favorable, even against our toughest opponent.   

We big bad Arkansas fans want to make sure the whole college football world knows that we are objective fans.  I'm starting to wonder if what's going on with our fans is objective or just stupid.  Why is it that fans from Alabama are completely alright with a 3 point win against Vanderbilt at home, and Arkansas fans moan?  Is it objectivity or could it be that Bama fans understand the SEC a bit better?

So by damn, I'm taking off my dark helmet, for now.  If the season goes into the tank, and the powers that be don’t take action, then I’m done anyway.  For now, I'm gonna give this team time to grow, the coaches a chance to come together, and hope for a hogs win against Bama on Saturday.

And one last thing.  You want to gripe about calls or what took place in the game, that's one thing,  and the stuff that's already up will be grandfathered in, but from this point on, posts just looking for stuff to bitch about will end up in the trash, at least when I'm on the board.  There's enough things to be critical of as it is.

I hope you're right about all this working out.  I hope nutt and markuson change and actually let Gus do his job.  History tells me that the chance of this happening are not good.  markuson may have hugged Gus, but, it was a very emotional time and it's very possible after the emotions settled down that the harmony feelings went away as well.

Given any opportunity to talk about his new OC, nutt always reminds anyone interviewing him that even though he has given up play calling duties, he's still has veto power.  That's something a power-hungry, insecure individual would say.  For some reason, he feels compelled to tell the world that he's still in charge.  Very strange and pathetic.

I like your post.  I want to be positive about the Hogs again.  Hopefully it will happen soon.  We shall see.

[HognotinMemphis]

Chances that changing our coach will make Arkansas a NC contender (1 of every 5 years, even) are slim to none.  We cannot realistically compete recruiting-wise against schools with the lure of Florida, with tradition like Notre Dame, with the size of Texas, or with the weather and size of California.  Heck, those schools hardly can do this on a consistent basis.  You guys are setting yourselves up if you believe bringing in a high quality proven coach is going to bring us to prominence.  

We will be the underdog in most of our big games, and that's what makes it so exciting to see us win.  It's what made the Texas game so big every year in the SWC...  All I hope for year-in-year-out is to be good enough to compete.  If we can win a big game or two, then yes, we can contend, as we did in the SWC.  However, the SEC has at least 4 Texas-type schools in an average year, beating 2/4 is a reasonable goal for us.

Does this mean I think HDN is the guy?  Probably not, but don't tell me that bringing in a proven winner will put us there, there are many more obstacles than just that.

i used to think that way. then along came auburn. there is no reason arkansas -- in a small, one-school state -- cannot compete with auburn -- which generally is the second sister in a smallish, two-school state.

i don't expect arkie to challenge for a national title every year or even the SEC overall title. florida, tennessee, LSU and georgia have large advantages over the hogs. no question.

i do believe that it is realistic to compete for the west every year, to begin and finish the season in the top-25 every year and to make some national noise (which means playing in the SEC title game and actually showing up for it; a top-10 spot) every five years or so.

those are not unreasonable expectations and that's what should be happening. that's where arkansas was during hatfield's tenure (i know, i know, not in the SEC, but look back at the records and rankings; seems like 1,000 years ago, but it really wasn't).

IF the Hogs cannot begin to accomplish the points you list in your post, then joining the SEC will end up being a long term colossal error. Fan support and interest will dwindle in Arkansas if the rule is what we've gotten over the past 6 years, really over the past 17 years since Hatfield left, rather than the exception.

[HognotinMemphis]

It was further up in this thread that someone mentioned how much better AL had been than AR recently.  For last year, that was definitly true.  Their defense was great last year, but I went back and looked at the records since 98 (since  Nutt got here since that seems to be the frame of reference for most everything about how bad the hogs are).  Here are the records:
   
        AL        AR
98    7-5       9-3
99    10-3     8-4
00    3-8       6-6
01    7-5       7-5
02    10-3     9-5
03    4-9       9-4
04    6-6       5-6
05    10-2      4-7
Total 57-41    57-40

I am amazed how close the total numbers are.  Three years AR has had a better record and 4 years AL has had a better record, with one tie.  They had two years recently (03-04) that were very similar to our last two years.  The other thing that jumps out is that they have had three 10 win seasons and we have had none.  One final note is that Nutt is 4-4 against Bama.

I don't know that there are many conclusions that can be drawn from these numbers, other than we are about equal over this period of time, and how much difference a ten win season can make for the fans following two bad years.

BTW, I'm with Ferral on the original post.   
   

Bama has had higher highs than the Hogs which helps fans rationalize the lower lows, especially when they are not in consecutive seasons. And, when the Tide had a low, they fired their head coach.

[FLKeysGuy]

Like Biggus posted the other day, whatever happens, happens.  One thing I've noticed among fans in the SEC is that most of them are pumpers for their team.  Spend some time on the TTFourm.com like I have and you'll see fans talking SEC Championships, and imo Bama has about as much chance winning the SEC this year as Arkansas. 

But reading that board something that should be obvious occurred to me.  At this point anything can happen. If you look at our schedule, the only seemingly invincible team in the West is Auburn, and imo we catch a HUGE break by having 2 weeks to prepare for them.   

A win Saturday could do several things, the least of which is Gus becoming more settled with himself and  and the other coaches.  Look, some of these coaches may have big egos, but Gus made some really nice calls last Saturday and you know some of his skeptics recognized those calls. 

Could hog fans be poisoning their own water?  We are looking for things to gripe about when Markuson reaching out to Gus after the game, is met with extreme skepticism.  We are looking for things to gripe about if we go ape because the staff celebrates a win over Vanderbilt.  In light of the pressure these guys were under to win, it's hard to imagine a different reaction by the coaches, and in the heat of the moment, I doubt Markuson had the forethought to take advantage of a Kodak moment, and hug Gus.

We should be happy to see signs that MM and GM are starting to show one another respect.  We should be happy the coaches are reacting to wins like they're important.  We should be happy that we are 1-0 in the SEC.  We should be happy that our schedule is favorable, even against our toughest opponent.   

We big bad Arkansas fans want to make sure the whole college football world knows that we are objective fans.  I'm starting to wonder if what's going on with our fans is objective or just stupid.  Why is it that fans from Alabama are completely alright with a 3 point win against Vanderbilt at home, and Arkansas fans moan?  Is it objectivity or could it be that Bama fans understand the SEC a bit better?

So by damn, I'm taking off my dark helmet, for now.  If the season goes into the tank, and the powers that be don’t take action, then I’m done anyway.  For now, I'm gonna give this team time to grow, the coaches a chance to come together, and hope for a hogs win against Bama on Saturday.

And one last thing.  You want to gripe about calls or what took place in the game, that's one thing,  and the stuff that's already up will be grandfathered in, but from this point on, posts just looking for stuff to bitch about will end up in the trash, at least when I'm on the board.  There's enough things to be critical of as it is.

Feral, I don't really know the board rules for admins, etc.  I've read your posts for awhile and certainly respect what you bring.  So, if you say you can delet a post just because YOU don't like it then so be it.

But let me remind you of another BB post sticked to the top of this board right now.  Paraphrased:  About how the two pay boards generally dictate the tone and content of their boards, and also how this board would never be a panderer or adhere to that type of behavior.  Well. . . . Which is it?

+1 to you. 

Squashing someone's opinion will only hinder a true collaberation between ideas.  Who doesn't get upset when you feel it in your bones that you are on the mark, and the next person is just opposite.  That is what's good about this board.  Not Clay Henry Nutt's board.

Feral's not saying people do not have a right to express their opinions.  What he is saying is the redundant nonsense that seems to appear is going to the trash.  There's a difference between articulating one's own opinions and arguing for the sake of arguing.  Take a "drive" through the Trash Can and see the kind of garbage that ends up there.  Sometimes, it's the initial post/topic of the thread that causes it to be moved.  Other times it's the belligerence and hostility of the debates that take place on the thread.  And sometimes it's just plain stupid, obnoxious statement/rumor trying to stir the pot -- and contrary to popular belief, it's not just one side of the "Force" that initiates it.

We're all Hog fans.  We can disagree about many things, but as long as we treat each other with some respect, you have nothing to worry about.  Most posters on this very thread took the time to make well-thought-out replies.  That's the kind of posting all of the moderators would like to see -- regardless what their personal opinions are.  As for my personal opinion...  see my signature line.

Keys

[GuvHog]

Guv,

Do you think it is an administrative problem or a coaching problem?  If it is both, then how will the problem be fixed if HDN is Athletic Director as you call for?

There are two coaches (Campbell and Malzahn) who need to kept on and Coach Grey needs to be AD.  It should be U-Haul city for the rest.

I think a large part of the problem was HDN's insistence on being the HC and OC at the
same time. That has been fixed with the arrival of GM and for the first time in several years,
the Hogs have a good QB coach (AW). Another part of the problem is that the 3 year
NCAA investigation (Not the probation) severely damaged recruiting, making depth a more serious problem than usuall. Recruiting must continue to improve, and I believe it will as more and more of GM's offense is installed. Reggie is overseeing defensive recruiting and I believe we'll see great improvement there too.

So you see no need for future changes?

On the contrary, Wether HDN goes or stays will be determined at the end of the season
as I have previously stated. Even if HDN stays I can still see some Assistant coaching
changes taking place though I'm not sure who.

[jabohog]

That's the difference between you and me.  It's not a social affair for me, and by God if you can recruit with a blue friken field and get a top twenty team, it proves the so called handicap you so eagerly embrace, is friken garbage.

Come up with some other changes that can actually get our program to the top in addition to just the coaching staff.  But if you're seeking one good year from the next coach who may be able to get us into a BCS game, then back to where we are now, I guess you should make that point more clearly.Yes, and how consistently do we see that blue-field team in the top 20?  That's my point.  We can be good, and possibly even the best, just not consistently.  We do not have that type of lure for potential all-americans.  Would I love for them to be in the top 10 consistently?  Of course, my point, if you read it, is that in my lifetime, we have never been that consistent and have not shown any signs of getting there.  Expecting a coaching staff change, without other things changing as well, to bring our program to prominence, is unrealistic. 

Why would you even want to keep score with your attitude? Have you ever played sports? If you did, wasn't it important after all the hard work to try and win? I can't comprehend the " I want them to win, but if they don't it's ok, I get to see the folks kids grow up that sit by us each game and we have fun chating" crap.

[DisplacedHogFan]

Here is one thing that I think would really help our recruiting--beating the hell out of LSU several years in a row. This would open up the fertile recruiting grounds of Louisiana and we could start to use that state just like we used Texas back in the day. That's not to say we still shouldn't use Texas but it's a bit harder to pull kids out of there when they realize they won't be playing in Texas much...if ever. However, we DO play in Louisiana and those kids are just as good as most of the Texas recruits. Bascially, I think our coaches are stuck in a rut of trying to recruit the hell out of Texas when maybe it's dried up a little bit for us. So why don't we just stick our best recruiters in Louisiana?? Just a thought.

[HognotinMemphis]

Here is one thing that I think would really help our recruiting--beating the hell out of LSU several years in a row. This would open up the fertile recruiting grounds of Louisiana and we could start to use that state just like we used Texas back in the day. That's not to say we still shouldn't use Texas but it's a bit harder to pull kids out of there when they realize they won't be playing in Texas much...if ever. However, we DO play in Louisiana and those kids are just as good as most of the Texas recruits. Bascially, I think our coaches are stuck in a rut of trying to recruit the hell out of Texas when maybe it's dried up a little bit for us. So why don't we just stick our best recruiters in Louisiana?? Just a thought.

True.  But when we start beating the hell out of LSU several years in a row is when hell will freeze over as long as Nutt is the HC.

[DisplacedHogFan]

True.  But when we start beating the hell out of LSU several years in a row is when hell will freeze over as long as Nutt is the HC.

How do you figure that HiM? We've played 'em close even though they have an apparent talent advantage year after year. Not defending Nutt's performance against LSU, just saying that beating them say 2 or 3 years in a row isn't that far of a stretch, even with Nutt at the helm...

[jackwalker]

2004 was not close. Neither was 2003.

[DisplacedHogFan]

2004 was not close. Neither was 2003.

More of the series has been close than not during Nutt's tenure, though. Wins and close contests shown below. Not trying to toot any moral victory horns as a loss is a loss, but saying we couldn't beat them several years in a row doesn't make much sense. It's not like they have dominated us over the last ten years.

2005 -- 19-17 LSU
2002 -- 21-20 Ark
2001 -- 38-41 LSU
2000 -- 14-3 Ark
1998 -- 41-14 Ark

[HognotinMemphis]

2004 was not close. Neither was 2003.

More of the series has been close than not during Nutt's tenure, though. Wins and close contests shown below. Not trying to toot any moral victory horns as a loss is a loss, but saying we couldn't beat them several years in a row doesn't make much sense. It's not like they have dominated us over the last ten years.

2005 -- 19-17 LSU
2002 -- 21-20 Ark
2001 -- 38-41 LSU
2000 -- 14-3 Ark
1998 -- 41-14 Ark

did we not play LSU in '99 or in '03 or in '04?

[no one]

True.  But when we start beating the hell out of LSU several years in a row is when hell will freeze over as long as Nutt is the HC.

How do you figure that HiM? We've played 'em close even though they have an apparent talent advantage year after year. Not defending Nutt's performance against LSU, just saying that beating them say 2 or 3 years in a row isn't that far of a stretch, even with Nutt at the helm...

B/C he has played them 8 times and it hasn't happened. 

[DisplacedHogFan]

True.  But when we start beating the hell out of LSU several years in a row is when hell will freeze over as long as Nutt is the HC.

How do you figure that HiM? We've played 'em close even though they have an apparent talent advantage year after year. Not defending Nutt's performance against LSU, just saying that beating them say 2 or 3 years in a row isn't that far of a stretch, even with Nutt at the helm...

B/C he has played them 8 times and it hasn't happened. 

I see your point and my original post on the subject was more of a hypothetical, but I think as long as Les Miles is the coach of LSU we have a shot. Nick Saban would have continued to own us, but I don't put much stock in Miles. I guess time will tell.

[DisplacedHogFan]

did we not play LSU in '99 or in '03 or in '04?

Said in my post "Wins and close games listed below"  but the answer to your fascetious question is yes and we got our asses handed to us. However, 5 of the 8 games have been wins or close losses. All I was trying to get across. 2 or 3 wins in a row isn't THAT much of a stretch to consider.

[Root Hog]

If Alabama experienced the nine years that Arkansas has, and the man responsible for it was still occupying Paul Bryant's office, Tuscaloosa would be BURNING.  The government would have to declare martial law.

There, my fellow Hogvillian, lies the rub. You and others insist that HDN must bear ALL
the responsibility for the current state of the Hog football program. I do agree that HDN
bears a great deal of the responsibility but not all of it. If you seriously think that firing
HDN wiil solve even half of the Football programs problems, you are sadly mistaken.

Guv, for once I agee with you.  Firing HDN will not solve all our problems.  We must also not repeat the mistakes that led to his hiring in the first place.

[007 License To Squeal]

Firing HDN will not solve all our problems.  We must also not repeat the mistakes that led to his hiring in the first place.

Firing Nutt would go a long way toward pulling ALL the fans together.

[Feralhog]

I just got back on line and I probably need to clear some things up from my original post.  This board will never force people believe a certain way, or promote someones agenda.  The very reason HSV and others looked at starting a board was because, among other things, they wanted a place where hog fans can gather and express their views.  Mike Irwin described it as a sort of cyber coffee house. 

The point in my post was I'm tired of looking for something negative when something positive happens.  I believe that what ever is going to happen, will happen and my expectations for what I want hasn't changed.  I will not be sold a bill of goods any longer, and if the season starts heading south, and it's because HDN isn't allowing his Offensive Coordinator run the show, then I'll not renew my season tickets. 

But you have to wonder, what happens if the season goes south and it's because Gus was running the show?  Will the expectations change?  For me no, because I'm not concerned with W-L's right now, what I want is for Gus to be in charge of the offense, and if that occurs and we have a poor season, I'm willing to weather that storm. 

Here's a scenario that I don't want.  Even though Gus was in charge, the season goes in the crapper, the powers that be fire HDN, and the new hire will not want to retain Gus.  I'm not sure that I can trust Broyles and Lindsey to stand up for Gus in that situation!  I'm not necessarily saying this will happen, and there's a million scenarios that exist, but my distrust of Broyles and Lindsey is as high as my skepticism in Nutt's ability to coach. 

I believe it's in everybody's best interest for these coaches to come together, and the other assistants to start buying into Gus as the coordinator.  I think it's in our best interest for Gus to be in charge, and I think it's a win win situation if our offense is successful under Gus. 

I understand that Bama's had some better peaks and their valleys aren't as shallow, but HiM and I have been around these boards a long time, and he knows as well as I, that Bama fans are sunshine pumpers to the point of being delusional. It doesn't take much for the Tide fans to start backing their coach if things begin to look up.  In '98 they were ready to hang Mike Dubose from the highest tree, and midway through the '99 season, Dubose could have run for Governor and won, only to have the ax fall at the end of the following year.  I wish a change at Arkansas would  have occurred at the end of last season, but it didn't. I'm not saying that when I see something bad, I'll pump some candy on it, but by the same token, I'm done finding bad in the good as well.  Candy coating or pissing to moan accomplishes nothing.

[Root Hog]

Feral, you are on the Gus Bus.  The problem with Huggers is that they love Nutt more than the Hogs.  I wish Gus every success, but don't put him first.

[Reaganite]

Feral, I've got a diagnosis of the problem here:

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php/topic,77855.0.html

[MikeL]

  Expecting a coaching staff change, without other things changing as well, to bring our program to prominence, is unrealistic. 
Why would you even want to keep score with your attitude? Have you ever played sports? If you did, wasn't it important after all the hard work to try and win? I can't comprehend the " I want them to win, but if they don't it's ok, I get to see the folks kids grow up that sit by us each game and we have fun chating" crap.

I refer to my previous post quoted above. I never said that it wasn't important to win, my point is that just changing the freakin' coaches isn't going to do it.  If you folks really want the top team, there is so much more to it than that.  And if all you are going to do is moan about the coaches, then losing / mediocre teams is all you will ever see.  Come up with some original ideas rather than rehash the obvious fact that we do not have a great coach.

I think we're all a bit tired of returning to the fire HDN stuff, that's a no-freakin'-brainer, but what the hell else are we gonna do, 'cause changing the coach is just one step on the road to a great football team...

[Queen Hog]

The way I see it is...you are either a HOG fan or you are not.  There are a lot of whiners  on this board who profess to be HOG fans.  What happens if Nutt does get fired and we don't go 11 - 0 next year?  Does it start all over again?  Get over it.  Support the HOGS.  They are OUR team.  They need our support. 

Go HOGS~
Beat Bama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :razorback:

[camelt]

Like Biggus posted the other day, whatever happens, happens.  One thing I've noticed among fans in the SEC is that most of them are pumpers for their team.  Spend some time on the TTFourm.com like I have and you'll see fans talking SEC Championships, and imo Bama has about as much chance winning the SEC this year as Arkansas. 

But reading that board something that should be obvious occurred to me.  At this point anything can happen. If you look at our schedule, the only seemingly invincible team in the West is Auburn, and imo we catch a HUGE break by having 2 weeks to prepare for them.   

A win Saturday could do several things, the least of which is Gus becoming more settled with himself and  and the other coaches.  Look, some of these coaches may have big egos, but Gus made some really nice calls last Saturday and you know some of his skeptics recognized those calls. 

Could hog fans be poisoning their own water?  We are looking for things to gripe about when Markuson reaching out to Gus after the game, is met with extreme skepticism.  We are looking for things to gripe about if we go ape because the staff celebrates a win over Vanderbilt.  In light of the pressure these guys were under to win, it's hard to imagine a different reaction by the coaches, and in the heat of the moment, I doubt Markuson had the forethought to take advantage of a Kodak moment, and hug Gus.

We should be happy to see signs that MM and GM are starting to show one another respect.  We should be happy the coaches are reacting to wins like they're important.  We should be happy that we are 1-0 in the SEC.  We should be happy that our schedule is favorable, even against our toughest opponent.   

We big bad Arkansas fans want to make sure the whole college football world knows that we are objective fans.  I'm starting to wonder if what's going on with our fans is objective or just stupid.  Why is it that fans from Alabama are completely alright with a 3 point win against Vanderbilt at home, and Arkansas fans moan?  Is it objectivity or could it be that Bama fans understand the SEC a bit better?

So by damn, I'm taking off my dark helmet, for now.  If the season goes into the tank, and the powers that be don’t take action, then I’m done anyway.  For now, I'm gonna give this team time to grow, the coaches a chance to come together, and hope for a hogs win against Bama on Saturday.

And one last thing.  You want to gripe about calls or what took place in the game, that's one thing,  and the stuff that's already up will be grandfathered in, but from this point on, posts just looking for stuff to bitch about will end up in the trash, at least when I'm on the board.  There's enough things to be critical of as it is.

I could not agree more.  Some of us are cutting off our nose to spite our face.  3-1 going into the bye week with the only loss coming to the #3 team in the nation is a strong start.