Chauncey Washington Hamstrung!

[Pork Twain]

Hmm ok so you believe MM is better then CD based on the fact he is "even" with Rojo through practice so far, correct me if i am wrong but didnt CD take the job from Rojo last year? (or rojo lost it how ever you wanna look at it) All i am saying is from reading your post its all a bunch of crying over something that will not change in the immediate future.

Tomorrow a bus full of 5 star recruits isnt going to show up at the broyles complex ready to play so all this theorycraft bs about stars and recruit profiles and "laugh" all star games being a legit quantifier of how a KID will GROW UP, how long ago were you in college? it is not a slam dunk that anyone is bound for success just because rivals says so, that is what i am driving at get kids because you know them and believe in them personally not because you read on some board or site somewhere that said they were.

Also HS offenses can be as complex as the NFL in the x's and o's but that doesnt mean they can execute or that the level of competition is anywhere near the same. These are high school kids "most" of them are not or have not been "bred" to play ball HS coachs play ball with whom ever tries out.

Facts are facts...
Go to this site and tell me you don't see a correlation between who is getting the stars and who finishes on top every year.
http://rivals100.rivals.com/teamrank.asp?SID=880

[bigred7987]

None of them played in a BCS bowl

ah good point, reminds me of another player Clint Stoerner.  Guess that is the answer to your BCS statement?

[311Hog]

I would take Matt Jones 100 outa 100 times over an unproven HS all american QB that hasnt played a single down of big time football.

[311Hog]

All i have said before the star rankings are a good indicator of the potential that a kid will rise to the occasion and succeed, but my point is it isnt fool proof and it isnt a sure thing. So i guess we can debate in circles because there are success stories of all star lvls.

[bigred7987]

Yeah they play in the Big East where there isn't any talent

and btw I'm not completely blind to star rankings and success but West Virginia, Louisville and others have found ways to win without all the stars.  It is something but not everything

I'm sure Georgia would say that too, and Va Tech who had a battle with Louisville in the Gator Bowl
Say what you want about West Va but they beat Georgia...which we couldn't do

[Pork Twain]

I would take Matt Jones 100 outa 100 times over an unproven HS all american QB that hasnt played a single down of big time football.

Who in the world said they wouldn't take MJ over a HS player???  I call BS on you if you say you would take 3-star MJ over 5-star MM with both coming right out of HS.

[Pig Power]

I would take Matt Jones 100 outa 100 times over an unproven HS all american QB that hasnt played a single down of big time football.

He was a freak of nature..no doubt, but if both were Frosh..I would take the All American. Jones a SR..Take Jones!

[Pork Twain]

All i have said before the star rankings are a good indicator of the potential that a kid will rise to the occasion and succeed, but my point is it isnt fool proof and it isnt a sure thing. So i guess we can debate in circles because there are success stories of all star lvls.

Nothing is fool proof but the facts I posted earlier point to USC having a better chance at success with their players.

[311Hog]

He is saying that recent history would lend itself to the fact that some "BCS" conferences are only a few teams deep and the rest are fodder. Thus teams like Miami, USC, W. VA can coast for most of the season only having 2 to 3 "major" tests compared to the SEC which some would argue is at least 6 teams deep where virtually every conference game is of a lvl of a bowl game.

[HatfieldHog]

With their starting tail-back out, our excuses are getting fewer and fewer for getting thumped on Sept. 2nd.  We will see one thing though, if they run the ball down our throats with the 2nd team guy, we'll know just how poor our recruiting has been the past few years.  I really think that this game is gonna show us the gap between where we are, and where we want to go.

See ya

[311Hog]

I would take Matt Jones 100 outa 100 times over an unproven HS all american QB that hasnt played a single down of big time football.

Who in the world said they wouldn't take MJ over a HS player???  I call BS on you if you say you would take 3-star MJ over 5-star MM with both coming right out of HS.

Im saying i wouldnt make a choice based on ZERO actual game time. Which is entirely my point until a freshman steps on the field and produces when the lights are on there is no difference to me in stars, HS awards, etc etc.

[Pork Twain]

He is saying that recent history would lend itself to the fact that some "BCS" conferences are only a few teams deep and the rest are fodder. Thus teams like Miami, USC, W. VA can coast for most of the season only having 2 to 3 "major" tests compared to the SEC which some would argue is at least 6 teams deep where virtually every conference game is of a lvl of a bowl game.

What???

[bigred7987]

BeoPig, find this correlation...
Pete Carroll
Charlie Weiss
Jim Tressell
Bobby Bowden
Urban Meyer
Joe Paterno
Bob Stoops
Tommy Tuberville
Lloyd Carr
Houston Nutt?

Well you have a question mark by Dale.  That's really good.  The other coaches have proved they belong in a BCS conference.

I would say all of those with the exception of Dale have some real talent.

I probably have the question mark there BECAUSE HE DOESN"T BELONG.   Those guys win no matter what kind of talent they have.  Or maybe I was the only one who saw that with that list of coaches?  All I am trying to point out is you guys think star ratings are everything they aren't.  Coaching is just as much if not more which Rich Rodriguez proves as well as Louisville, remember they did beat Fla State a couple years ago.  All you guys do is moan about that when its just a part of the puzzle that is winning in college football.  You guys spend your time moaning about it when the ends don't justify the means because its not the only part of the puzzle.  I'm not saying it has nothing to do with it, I'm not an idiot but its not everything and thats all I'm saying

[bigred7987]

Yeah they play in the Big East where there isn't any talent

and btw I'm not completely blind to star rankings and success but West Virginia, Louisville and others have found ways to win without all the stars.  It is something but not everything

I'm sure Georgia would say that too, and Va Tech who had a battle with Louisville in the Gator Bowl
Say what you want about West Va but they beat Georgia...which we couldn't do

If we had a kicker we could have.

or an offensive coordinator who knows not to run right 8 straight times? 

[311Hog]

Hmm ok so you believe MM is better then CD based on the fact he is "even" with Rojo through practice so far, correct me if i am wrong but didnt CD take the job from Rojo last year? (or rojo lost it how ever you wanna look at it) All i am saying is from reading your post its all a bunch of crying over something that will not change in the immediate future.

First of all, I really doubt your reading comprehension.  No where did I say that Mitch was better than Casey or even imply it.  I clearly stated that Casey wasn't even an option right now.  Deductive reasoning would tell you that leaves two options-Robert or Mitch.  I told you why I wanted Mitch.

Umm you said " MM is a 5 star and Casey a 3 star" as a counter point to me saying that there is little difference between 5 stars and 3 stars. You are clearly implying that MM is better then Casey based on his stars even though MM has exactly zero D1 wins.

[ShellHog]

Honestly there isnt to terribly much difference between 3 star and 5 star recruits, other then massive amounts of hype.

Do you see a difference between Darren McFadden (5-star) and Dedrick Poole (3-star)? 

Mitch Mustain (5-star) and Casey Dick (3-star)?

Felix Jones is a 4-star.  Those 4 and 5 star kids are the elite and yes there is a big difference.  You're delusional if you think otherwise.

If there wasn't a big difference in 3 and 5 star athletes then we wouldn't have got run off the field by 53 points last year.  Arkansas is full of 3 star kids.  Texas, Auburn, USC, LSU, Miami, and countless others fill up their rosters with 4 star prospects. 

I don't get your point --- Mitch Mustain (5-star) and Casey Dick (3-star)?
MM hasn't played a snap of D-1.....closest thing was an ARMY all-star game.  We both know what happened there. 

There is a clear talent difference.  Was Casey Dick the NATIONAL player of the year in four different publications?  Shoot, was he even the county player of the year?

You don't win very many games with a 3-star QB in the SEC unless he's a freak like Matt Jones.  Throw this comparison out if you like.  The point as a whole still stands.

I am not suggesting MM was not a better High School QB than CD (its obvious MM was outstanding in HS).....but you can't compare their star ratings to college performance right now, or can you?

[Pork Twain]

BeoPig, find this correlation...
Pete Carroll
Charlie Weiss
Jim Tressell
Bobby Bowden
Urban Meyer
Joe Paterno
Bob Stoops
Tommy Tuberville
Lloyd Carr
Houston Nutt?

Well you have a question mark by Dale.  That's really good.  The other coaches have proved they belong in a BCS conference.

I would say all of those with the exception of Dale have some real talent.

I probably have the question mark there BECAUSE HE DOESN"T BELONG.   Those guys win no matter what kind of talent they have.  Or maybe I was the only one who saw that with that list of coaches?  All I am trying to point out is you guys think star ratings are everything they aren't.  Coaching is just as much if not more which Rich Rodriguez proves as well as Louisville, remember they did beat Fla State a couple years ago.  All you guys do is moan about that when its just a part of the puzzle that is winning in college football.  You guys spend your time moaning about it when the ends don't justify the means because its not the only part of the puzzle.  I'm not saying it has nothing to do with it, I'm not an idiot but its not everything and thats all I'm saying

Pete Carroll - Has won at USC
Charlie Weiss - Has won at ND
Jim Tressell - Has won at Ohio St
Bobby Bowden - Has won at Florida St
Urban Meyer - Has won at Utah and Florida
Joe Paterno - Has won at Louisville
Bob Stoops - Has won at Oklahomo
Tommy Tuberville - Has won at Auburn
Lloyd Carr - Has won at Michigan

Those guys coach most of the teams I was talking about being in the top ten every year...  Do great players make an average coach look good or does a great coach make average players look good?

I am not a big follower of coaches that don't coach at Arkansas but where else have these guys won at but where I listed?  They have stars there...

Can't believe you left Richt off of your all-star list...  So what you are saying is we just need a new coach?  I can agree with that.

Note: I would like to see MM play a down at the UofA before I say he is better than CD.

[Pig Power]

None of them played in a BCS bowl

ah good point, reminds me of another player Clint Stoerner.  Guess that is the answer to your BCS statement?

? Please man....Give me USC's talent and even Dale could get to a BCS bowl
Here's a link to the BCS and I challenge you to find Arkansas on this list
http://www.bcsfootball.org/index2.cfm?page=alltime

[darkhogfan]

This is looking more and more like an even game boys...............

I pray that Reggie and Gus can exploit this some how

If they're as good as advertised they will.

[311Hog]

Well Poole was a little guy in HS if i remember right and got hurt alot and eventually bulked up sorta like Madre on his time on the hill.  I never said that 3 stars cant be busts I think we got in this thread for different reasons. 

I dont believe a team for of any particular star rating can automatically win when we are talking about largely unproven high school kids. 

[311Hog]

This is where you jumped to conclusions, i merely stated that of the hundreds of high school football players rated each year, and all the stars etc etc that for the most part there isnt a HUGE difference between a 5 star kid and a kid that gets a 3 star rating in the long run.

At that exact moment one has been deemed to have more raw potential then the other i was more trying to illustrate the fact of dont give up on a kid just because rivals says so, i just believe that the best recruit to bring to your program is one with his best days AHEAD of him not one that has them behind him.

[311Hog]

"Honestly there isnt to terribly much difference between 3 star and 5 star recruits, other then massive amounts of hype." - Me

"Do you see a difference between Darren McFadden (5-star) and Dedrick Poole (3-star)? 

Mitch Mustain (5-star) and Casey Dick (3-star)?

Felix Jones is a 4-star.  Those 4 and 5 star kids are the elite and yes there is a big difference.  You're delusional if you think otherwise.

If there wasn't a big difference in 3 and 5 star athletes then we wouldn't have got run off the field by 53 points last year.  Arkansas is full of 3 star kids.  Texas, Auburn, USC, LSU, Miami, and countless others fill up their rosters with 4 star prospects."- You

Tell me in the above bit about the difference between 5 and 3 star players you arent implying that MM is better then CD based purely on his star rankings?

[311Hog]

Then why did you say this ?


"First of all, I really doubt your reading comprehension.  No where did I say that Mitch was better than Casey or even imply it.  I clearly stated that Casey wasn't even an option right now.  Deductive reasoning would tell you that leaves two options-Robert or Mitch.  I told you why I wanted Mitch"

[Landonhog]

How is there even an arguement about this? 

[HogasaurusRex]

Every thread on the board should read "MY topic (that will turn into a debate on ROJO & Mitch)  I will say I'll be disapointed if MM doesn't play!

[ShellHog]

Honestly there isnt to terribly much difference between 3 star and 5 star recruits, other then massive amounts of hype.

Do you see a difference between Darren McFadden (5-star) and Dedrick Poole (3-star)? 

Mitch Mustain (5-star) and Casey Dick (3-star)?

Felix Jones is a 4-star.  Those 4 and 5 star kids are the elite and yes there is a big difference.  You're delusional if you think otherwise.

If there wasn't a big difference in 3 and 5 star athletes then we wouldn't have got run off the field by 53 points last year.  Arkansas is full of 3 star kids.  Texas, Auburn, USC, LSU, Miami, and countless others fill up their rosters with 4 star prospects. 

I don't get your point --- Mitch Mustain (5-star) and Casey Dick (3-star)?
MM hasn't played a snap of D-1.....closest thing was an ARMY all-star game.  We both know what happened there. 

There is a clear talent difference.  Was Casey Dick the NATIONAL player of the year in four different publications?  Shoot, was he even the county player of the year?

You don't win very many games with a 3-star QB in the SEC unless he's a freak like Matt Jones.  Throw this comparison out if you like.  The point as a whole still stands.

I am not suggesting MM was not a better High School QB than CD (its obvious MM was outstanding in HS).....but you can't compare their star ratings to college performance right now, or can you?

We don't know about either one of these guys but you what we do know is its hard tp succeed in this conference very often with 3 star QBs. 

I still challenge you or anyone else to name me the last team that won a national title filled up with 3 star talent.  That was the whole reason I got to into this thread.  I've already told you to kick this example out if you would like.  I certainly don't see you rebutting the point with McFadden and Poole.  I tried to come up with a few examples that we could relate to.  

Did Fred Talley have many star's.  Seems Cobbs was prize recruit that year.  Who had better College career?  Talley or Cobbs?
Brashears 5* vs Stourner 2 or 3*'s.

Don't get me wrong, I understand you have to get blue-chip recruits to win in the SEC.  But with only 1 or 2 five stars coming out of Arkansas every year, the HOGS are going to need to evaluate better that the Florida's, Georgias, LSU's.  We will NEVER get as many highly touted recruits as those programs...not going to happen.  It does not mean Hogs can't compete. 

How many 5 stars came out of Ark last 2 years? What, two---McFadden & Mustain. Hogs got them both, but has to build solid team around those two with predomintly 2 & 3 star players (a couple 4 stars).  It can be done, somebody needs to figure out how......

[piglett06]

But still do remember it is a team sport.

[311Hog]

LOL are you seriously going to stand there after you just clearly said that MM is more talented then CD and then try and say that you arent saying MM is better then CD ?

Seriously you have the weakest semantics arguement in the history of the internet. If i said i am more talented then you would you not take that as a statement that i am saying i am better then you? come on talk about my reading abilities?

[311Hog]

Honestly there isnt to terribly much difference between 3 star and 5 star recruits, other then massive amounts of hype.

Do you see a difference between Darren McFadden (5-star) and Dedrick Poole (3-star)? 

Mitch Mustain (5-star) and Casey Dick (3-star)?

Felix Jones is a 4-star.  Those 4 and 5 star kids are the elite and yes there is a big difference.  You're delusional if you think otherwise.

If there wasn't a big difference in 3 and 5 star athletes then we wouldn't have got run off the field by 53 points last year.  Arkansas is full of 3 star kids.  Texas, Auburn, USC, LSU, Miami, and countless others fill up their rosters with 4 star prospects. 

I don't get your point --- Mitch Mustain (5-star) and Casey Dick (3-star)?
MM hasn't played a snap of D-1.....closest thing was an ARMY all-star game.  We both know what happened there. 

There is a clear talent difference.  Was Casey Dick the NATIONAL player of the year in four different publications?  Shoot, was he even the county player of the year?

You don't win very many games with a 3-star QB in the SEC unless he's a freak like Matt Jones.  Throw this comparison out if you like.  The point as a whole still stands.

I am not suggesting MM was not a better High School QB than CD (its obvious MM was outstanding in HS).....but you can't compare their star ratings to college performance right now, or can you?

We don't know about either one of these guys but you what we do know is its hard tp succeed in this conference very often with 3 star QBs. 

I still challenge you or anyone else to name me the last team that won a national title filled up with 3 star talent.  That was the whole reason I got to into this thread.  I've already told you to kick this example out if you would like.  I certainly don't see you rebutting the point with McFadden and Poole.  I tried to come up with a few examples that we could relate to.  

Did Fred Talley have many star's.  Seems Cobbs was prize recruit that year.  Who had better College career?  Talley or Cobbs?
Brashears 5* vs Stourner 2 or 3*'s.

Don't get me wrong, I understand you have to get blue-chip recruits to win in the SEC.  But with only 1 or 2 five stars coming out of Arkansas every year, the HOGS are going to need to evaluate better that the Florida's, Georgias, LSU's.  We will NEVER get as many highly touted recruits as those programs...not going to happen.  It does not mean Hogs can't compete. 

How many 5 stars came out of Ark last 2 years? What, two---McFadden & Mustain. Hogs got them both, but has to build solid team around those two with predomintly 2 & 3 star players (a couple 4 stars).  It can be done, somebody needs to figure out how......

Ding ding winner !

Does Ricky freaking Bobby come to our practices? do we have 5 billion kids within a 20 mile radius?

Comparing the amount of players USC gets to us in terms of blue chippers just simply isnt a fair comparasion.

[Pork Twain]

LOL are you seriously going to stand there after you just clearly said that MM is more talented then CD and then try and say that you arent saying MM is better then CD ?

Seriously you have the weakest semantics arguement in the history of the internet. If i said i am more talented then you would you not take that as a statement that i am saying i am better then you? come on talk about my reading abilities?

You two are making my head hurt.  I respectfully bow out...

[piglett06]

Here's a bit of a dicussion on the star rating system.

http://rivals100.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=59026

Apparently it was started by Rivals.

[ShellHog]

LOL are you seriously going to stand there after you just clearly said that MM is more talented then CD and then try and say that you arent saying MM is better then CD ?

Seriously you have the weakest semantics arguement in the history of the internet. If i said i am more talented then you would you not take that as a statement that i am saying i am better then you? come on talk about my reading abilities?

I'm not sure where you were trying to go with it.  If your asking me if Mitch is more talented/better/whatever you word you'd like, the answer is yes.  If you're asking can I prove that based off on the on the field performance, then no.  Mitch obviously hasn't played. 

But if you can't see the talent difference between the two you are blind.  Even the great homer Chuck Barrett was making comments last year that the best QB Arkansas had was probably not even on campus-in reference to Mustain.

Don't act like I don't have a reason to make distinctions between words.  You've been trying to pin me down for I don't know how long now.

You are still dodging my initial point by trying to focus on one line.  Please tell me again (for I don't know how many times) a team that has won the national title filled up with 3-star talent.  There is a HUGE difference between 3-star and 5-star talent. 

Here's a site that ought to help you out.

www.rivals.com

B.Y.U!!!!!!!!

[311Hog]

Trying to pin you down ?  i am pretty sure i have pinned you down.

Also why or how would i know the last champion team with all 3 star players (like that is even a possiblity) should i go and google " tell me who won the last championship with an entire roster of 3 star rivals players" ? and do you think i would even get 1 hit?

Fact is i already said i could give a rats a$$ about what rivals says or a players stars.  My only concern is how a player adapts to college life and tries to improve themselves while they are here. It is my opinion that Arkansas has to make its all americans while glam schools like USC have them show up by the thousands, but even then those kids have to work their asses off to get where they are, their rivals ranking didnt get them the Heisman.

That was my point in entering this thread not to be weakly insulted by you as you contradict yourself and make unmeetable demands aka theorycrafting.

The only results i care about are on the field.

[BattleHawg]

That might even things up a bit, but I'd rather us both have our TBs for the game.

The only way things will be evened up is if 5 of their LB's can't play.

very true Beo.

lots people are gonna poo their britches when they see the speed/pursuit & talent the trojan LBers possess.



BH

[SpareRib]

LOL are you seriously going to stand there after you just clearly said that MM is more talented then CD and then try and say that you arent saying MM is better then CD ?

Seriously you have the weakest semantics arguement in the history of the internet. If i said i am more talented then you would you not take that as a statement that i am saying i am better then you? come on talk about my reading abilities?

You two are making my head hurt.  I respectfully bow out...

Guys, the subject was "Chauncey Washington Hamstrung!."  The implication was that this might be to our advantage. 

I'm not sophisticated enough to understand know how important the implications of the star rating system are for this specific game, but I am afraid if I asked for confirmation of the time, some folks might try to take my watch apart.

Here it is - the Vegas line has us at 8.5 point underdogs.  I think that Chauncey's status might help counter McFadden's loss and we are firmly in the hunt.

Pork Out :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

[311Hog]

LOL are you seriously going to stand there after you just clearly said that MM is more talented then CD and then try and say that you arent saying MM is better then CD ?

Seriously you have the weakest semantics arguement in the history of the internet. If i said i am more talented then you would you not take that as a statement that i am saying i am better then you? come on talk about my reading abilities?

You two are making my head hurt.  I respectfully bow out...

Guys, the subject was "Chauncey Washington Hamstrung!."  The implication was that this might be to our advantage. 

I'm not sophisticated enough to understand know how important the implications of the star rating system are for this specific game, but I am afraid if I asked for confirmation of the time, some folks might try to take my watch apart.

Here it is - the Vegas line has us at 8.5 point underdogs.  I think that Chauncey's status might help counter McFadden's loss and we are firmly in the hunt.

Pork Out :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

sorry, you are certainly correct. Injuries sure can affect the out come of this game.

[SpareRib]

LOL are you seriously going to stand there after you just clearly said that MM is more talented then CD and then try and say that you arent saying MM is better then CD ?

Seriously you have the weakest semantics arguement in the history of the internet. If i said i am more talented then you would you not take that as a statement that i am saying i am better then you? come on talk about my reading abilities?

You two are making my head hurt.  I respectfully bow out...

Guys, the subject was "Chauncey Washington Hamstrung!."  The implication was that this might be to our advantage. 

I'm not sophisticated enough to understand know how important the implications of the star rating system are for this specific game, but I am afraid if I asked for confirmation of the time, some folks might try to take my watch apart.

Here it is - the Vegas line has us at 8.5 point underdogs.  I think that Chauncey's status might help counter McFadden's loss and we are firmly in the hunt.

Pork Out :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

sorry, you are certainly correct. Injuries sure can affect the out come of this game.

311, definitely no offense taken - I just had to chuckle at the direction of the thread.  I believe there is even a "we can't win because our incompetent leader is a nincompoop" statement somewhere in here.  Kinda takes your breath away.  Man, will I be glad when 9/2 arrives and we'll all have some facts to work with.

Pork Out

[doo-ran]

Stars don't mean anything...Next they'll be saying Pluto isn't a planet. The rings around Uranus is what's most important. That's exactly where PC wants his football team, Uranus.

[silvertip]

Booty - http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=15&p=8&c=1&nid=412010
Here are a few numbers to put it in perspective for you.

From the 2002 recruiting class through the 2006 class:
USC  had 19 5-star and 57 4-star recruits
UofA had 02 5-star and 19 4-star recruits

Thats right USC got 3 more 5-star and 5 less 4-star recruits in 2006 than we have gotten from 2002-2006 combined.  Stop and think about how big a deal we make out of getting one 5-star recruit the next time you want to say USC is down this year and we SHOULD win.

Hazelton was a 5-star WR, in 06 Turner was a 5-star WR in 05 Davs was a 5-star in 04 and Jarrett was a 4-star in 04.

Point Taken....SC players had more *'s coming out of High School.  So that translates to having more talented players than HOGS.  I get it, so if hogs win, it is b/c of better coaching. Okay, I understand, the only way for HOGS to even hang close will be b/c of our Head Coach...I see your logic now:) 

You're making a quantum leap in your logic, ShellHog. You go from "...if Hogs win it will be because of better coaching.." alllll the waaay to it "will be b/c of our Head Coach.."---all that space covered without touching reality along the way.

Yeah, if the Hogs win with lesser talent, it will be because of coaching all right. And what has changed about the coaching since the fiasco last year? Gus & Alex, that's what.

If the Hogs win, it will be because of a real OC, a real passing game. And mainly because we're not running that lame-ass, fetal-position, thumb-sucking offense that we've had for years. NOT because of the Head Coach.