Who recognizes USC's 2003-04 national championship?

[razorbrock]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

In 64 the AP had the power to declare.

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MIND AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET WHAT YOU WANTED.  I HAVEN'T HEARD THE PAC-10 CLAIMING USC WON IT, JUST USC.

How hard is that to understand???

Excellent, excellent point Superhog; however, if LSU, Arkansas, or any other school in America were named AP National Champion, it would be on the cover of their media guides and banners would be hanging in their stadium, so I don't fault USC for accepting the AP Poll's recognition of their season.

[Pork Twain]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MND AFTER THE FACT.

Sure you can.  Example:  I read most of your posts and then usually immediately change my mind about the decision and wish I hadn't. 

How hard is that to understand???

This should clear up some of the difficulty you're having. 

Great post.  Sarcastic but didn't say anything about anything.

[Pork Twain]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

In 64 the AP had the power to declare.

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MIND AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET WHAT YOU WANTED.  I HAVEN'T HEARD THE PAC-10 CLAIMING USC WON IT, JUST USC.

How hard is that to understand???

Excellent, excellent point Superhog; however, if LSU, Arkansas, or any other school in America were named AP National Champion, it would be on the cover of their media guides and banners would be hanging in their stadium, so I don't fault USC for accepting the AP Poll's recognition of their season.l

Noticed you left Auburn off of there.  I'm sure many would claim it but it still wouldn't be valid just because it was our conference.

[razorbrock]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

In 64 the AP had the power to declare.

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MIND AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET WHAT YOU WANTED.  I HAVEN'T HEARD THE PAC-10 CLAIMING USC WON IT, JUST USC.

How hard is that to understand???

Excellent, excellent point Superhog; however, if LSU, Arkansas, or any other school in America were named AP National Champion, it would be on the cover of their media guides and banners would be hanging in their stadium, so I don't fault USC for accepting the AP Poll's recognition of their season.l

Noticed you left Auburn off of there.

Auburn wasn't voted #1 by the AP--they were #2.

[Albert Einswine]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MND AFTER THE FACT.

Sure you can.  Example:  I read most of your posts and then usually immediately change my mind about the decision and wish I hadn't. 

How hard is that to understand???

This should clear up some of the difficulty you're having. 

Great post.  Sarcastic but didn't say anything about anything.

I've already said it.  It is the AP's prerogative to name their #1 the champion.

If this year we were to wind up #3 in the BCS and get left out of the BCS championship game but the AP named us their National Champion we would hang the banner in the Reynolds Razorback Stadium concourse and you would fall into line like every other Hog fan and declare that we were #1 and National Champions.

If the Merchandiser declares a National Champion it's their prerogative.  We aren't forced to agree on who the champion is minus a playoff system.

[hogsNbeer]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

In 64 the AP had the power to declare.

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MIND AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET WHAT YOU WANTED.  I HAVEN'T HEARD THE PAC-10 CLAIMING USC WON IT, JUST USC.

How hard is that to understand???

Super, not arguing with you here....but when I dont' agree with the AP having power or not having power to declare...... The AP poll was the sole pole(Human) that the BCS used to comprise the BCS Standing....The other was the USA/Today-- this pole's number also went to the standings--but different to the AP because they had to vote  the BCS champion as #1.. So having the AP in there, which by the way they are not in it now, suggests that they had some pull in 03-04 to pick there number 1.....You may not agree, but they did...

I would agree with you 100%, if the AP was not apart of the BCS when they voted USC #1....but they were apart of it then...... so that makes a great argument for the co championships........

[LSUFan]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

In 64 the AP had the power to declare.

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MIND AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET WHAT YOU WANTED.  I HAVEN'T HEARD THE PAC-10 CLAIMING USC WON IT, JUST USC.

How hard is that to understand???

Super, not arguing with you here....but when I dont' agree with the AP having power or not having power to declare...... The AP poll was the sole pole(Human) that the BCS used to comprise the BCS Standing....The other was the USA/Today-- this pole's number also went to the standings--but different to the AP because they had to vote  the BCS champion as #1.. So having the AP in there, which by the way they are not in it now, suggests that they had some pull in 03-04 to pick there number 1.....You may not agree, but they did...

I would agree with you 100%, if the AP was not apart of the BCS when they voted USC #1....but they were apart of it then...... so that makes a great argument for the co championships........

HOGVILLE HEARBY DECLARES THE ARKANSAS RAZORBACKS 2006 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS

b/c that's the way we voted.

[Pork Twain]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MND AFTER THE FACT.

Sure you can.  Example:  I read most of your posts and then usually immediately change my mind about the decision and wish I hadn't. 

How hard is that to understand???

This should clear up some of the difficulty you're having. 

Great post.  Sarcastic but didn't say anything about anything.

I've already said it.  It is the AP's prerogative to name their #1 the champion.

If this year we were to wind up #3 in the BCS and get left out of the BCS championship game but the AP named us their National Champion we would hang the banner in the Reynolds Razorback Stadium concourse and you would fall into line like every other Hog fan and declare that we were #1 and National Champions.

If the Merchandiser declares a National Champion it's their prerogative.  We aren't forced to agree on who the champion is minus a playoff system.

And it would be wrong because the SEC signed off on the BCS and said that was the ONE NC they would recgnize.  Just like the Big-10, Big-12 and Pac-10 did.

[Albert Einswine]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MND AFTER THE FACT.

Sure you can.  Example:  I read most of your posts and then usually immediately change my mind about the decision and wish I hadn't. 

How hard is that to understand???

This should clear up some of the difficulty you're having. 

Great post.  Sarcastic but didn't say anything about anything.

I've already said it.  It is the AP's prerogative to name their #1 the champion.

If this year we were to wind up #3 in the BCS and get left out of the BCS championship game but the AP named us their National Champion we would hang the banner in the Reynolds Razorback Stadium concourse and you would fall into line like every other Hog fan and declare that we were #1 and National Champions.

If the Merchandiser declares a National Champion it's their prerogative.  We aren't forced to agree on who the champion is minus a playoff system.

And it would be wrong because the SEC signed off on the BCS and said that was the ONE NC they would recgnize.  Just like the Big-10, Big-12 and Pac-10 did.

Whatever dude.  If we were to finish #1 in the AP you'd have your index finger in the air screaming, "We're #1,  National Champs baby!",  like every other Hog fan in America and if you say you wouldn't you're just kidding yourself.

[Pork Twain]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

In 64 the AP had the power to declare.

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MIND AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET WHAT YOU WANTED.  I HAVEN'T HEARD THE PAC-10 CLAIMING USC WON IT, JUST USC.

How hard is that to understand???

Super, not arguing with you here....but when I dont' agree with the AP having power or not having power to declare...... The AP poll was the sole pole(Human) that the BCS used to comprise the BCS Standing....The other was the USA/Today-- this pole's number also went to the standings--but different to the AP because they had to vote  the BCS champion as #1.. So having the AP in there, which by the way they are not in it now, suggests that they had some pull in 03-04 to pick there number 1.....You may not agree, but they did...

I would agree with you 100%, if the AP was not apart of the BCS when they voted USC #1....but they were apart of it then...... so that makes a great argument for the co championships........

I totatlly agree they had the right to rank the teams as they saw fit.  Then that ranking was used as a FACTOR in the BCS naming the NC.  The AP no longer has the power to name a NC thanks to the powers that be signing off on the BCS.  Now it is just one of many pieces of the BCS puzzle.

[Pork Twain]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MND AFTER THE FACT.

Sure you can.  Example:  I read most of your posts and then usually immediately change my mind about the decision and wish I hadn't. 

How hard is that to understand???

This should clear up some of the difficulty you're having. 

Great post.  Sarcastic but didn't say anything about anything.

I've already said it.  It is the AP's prerogative to name their #1 the champion.

If this year we were to wind up #3 in the BCS and get left out of the BCS championship game but the AP named us their National Champion we would hang the banner in the Reynolds Razorback Stadium concourse and you would fall into line like every other Hog fan and declare that we were #1 and National Champions.

If the Merchandiser declares a National Champion it's their prerogative.  We aren't forced to agree on who the champion is minus a playoff system.

And it would be wrong because the SEC signed off on the BCS and said that was the ONE NC they would recgnize.  Just like the Big-10, Big-12 and Pac-10 did.

Whatever dude.  If we were to finish #1 in the AP you'd have your index finger in the air screaming, "We're #1,  National Champs baby!" like every other Hog fan in America and if you say you wouldn't you're just kidding yourself.

I hope one of these days the Hogs give me the ability to prove you wrong.

[EastexHawg]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

In 64 the AP had the power to declare.

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MIND AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET WHAT YOU WANTED.  I HAVEN'T HEARD THE PAC-10 CLAIMING USC WON IT, JUST USC.

How hard is that to understand???

So an "agreement" worked out in some smoke-filled room somewhere, in which the main objectives were (1) trying to get as much money as possible out of the networks by hyping the BCS as a "championship series" (I still want to know...what about it is a "series"?) and (2) trying to derail the growing sentiment for a playoff...somehow makes you feel like the BCS is the legitimate annointer of national championships?

Would you feel the same way if George Steinbrenner, Tom Hicks, Bud Selig, Donald Fehr, and the presidents of Fox Sports and a few major sponsors got together in New York one weekend and decided that the world championship of Major League Baseball was going to be decided by SELECTING two teams to play in the newly-ordained "Fall Classic Series"?

If you were a Cardinals fan and the Redbirds had the best record in baseball that year but were left out of the Fall Classic Series...in which the Yankees and Dodgers were "selected" by a poll of sportswriters and Jeff Sagarin's computer to play for the title...would you just nod your head and say, "Hey, the Cards have no right to complain.  After all, it was AGREED UPON that the champion would be decided by the Fall Classic Series!"

Or would you think, "This is a farce.  Agreed upon or not, this is nothing more than a beauty contest and a marketing scheme to make the most money possible for the networks and everyone else involved.  How in the hell can we proclaim a team the undisputed champion when were hand-picked to play for the championship in a POLL?"

[HoopS]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

In 64 the AP had the power to declare.

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MIND AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET WHAT YOU WANTED.  I HAVEN'T HEARD THE PAC-10 CLAIMING USC WON IT, JUST USC.

How hard is that to understand???

So an "agreement" worked out in some smoke-filled room somewhere, in which the main objectives were (1) trying to get as much money as possible out of the networks by hyping the BCS as a "championship series" (I still want to know...what about it is a "series"?) and (2) trying to derail the growing sentiment for a playoff...somehow makes you feel like the BCS is the legitimate annointer of national championships?

Would you feel the same way if George Steinbrenner, Tom Hicks, Bud Selig, Donald Fehr, and the presidents of Fox Sports and a few major sponsors got together in New York one weekend and decided that the world championship of Major League Baseball was going to be decided by SELECTING two teams to play in the newly-ordained "Fall Classic Series"?

If you were a Cardinals fan and the Redbirds had the best record in baseball that year but were left out of the Fall Classic Series...in which the Yankees and Dodgers were "selected" by a poll of sportswriters and Jeff Sagarin's computer to play for the title...would you just nod your head and say, "Hey, the Cards have no right to complain.  After all, it was AGREED UPON that the champion would be decided by the Fall Classic Series!"

Or would you think, "This is a farce.  Agreed upon or not, this is nothing more than a beauty contest and a marketing scheme to make the most money possible for the networks and everyone else involved.  How in the hell can we proclaim a team the undisputed champion when were hand-picked to play for the championship in a POLL?"

Here is the next step.  If we are going to keep the flawed BCS, I want to see a rule stating that if you do not win your own conference, you can't win the national championship.  Now, with that being said, all "BCS" conferences need to split into divisions and follow the S.E.C and Big 12's lead. 

Also, with 12 game schedules, we need more power conference match-ups to give these computers more data so the power ratings may be more accurate.

I always like to see what your thoughts are east... what do you think about what I wrote about all teams going through the same method... ie... split divisions and a championship game to determine conference champs?  This would have eliminated OU from the mix and we could have seen USC LSU, provided USC would have won there conference championship game.

[Pork Twain]

The Associated Press obviously didn't agree to it.  To declare their #1 the champion is their prerogative.

They can declare all they want to but when your own conference (Pac-10) recognizes and signed up with the BCS, you can't really go back and claim the AP.  The AP used to have the power to declare a NC but when the major conference powers signed on with the BCS they lost all that power.  Now the AP declaring a NC is like Hogville declaring .  We can declare all we want but it doesn't change the facts. 

In 64 the AP had the power to declare.

THE PAC-10 AND SEC SIGNED UP WITH THE BCS AND BY DOING SO SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE NC THAT THEY DECLARED.  YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR MIND AFTER THE FACT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET WHAT YOU WANTED.  I HAVEN'T HEARD THE PAC-10 CLAIMING USC WON IT, JUST USC.

How hard is that to understand???

So an "agreement" worked out in some smoke-filled room somewhere, in which the main objectives were (1) trying to get as much money as possible out of the networks by hyping the BCS as a "championship series" (I still want to know...what about it is a "series"?) and (2) trying to derail the growing sentiment for a playoff...somehow makes you feel like the BCS is the legitimate annointer of national championships?

Would you feel the same way if George Steinbrenner, Tom Hicks, Bud Selig, Donald Fehr, and the presidents of Fox Sports and a few major sponsors got together in New York one weekend and decided that the world championship of Major League Baseball was going to be decided by SELECTING two teams to play in the newly-ordained "Fall Classic Series"?

If you were a Cardinals fan and the Redbirds had the best record in baseball that year but were left out of the Fall Classic Series...in which the Yankees and Dodgers were "selected" by a poll of sportswriters and Jeff Sagarin's computer to play for the title...would you just nod your head and say, "Hey, the Cards have no right to complain.  After all, it was AGREED UPON that the champion would be decided by the Fall Classic Series!"

Or would you think, "This is a farce.  Agreed upon or not, this is nothing more than a beauty contest and a marketing scheme to make the most money possible for the networks and everyone else involved.  How in the hell can we proclaim a team the undisputed champion when were hand-picked to play for the championship in a POLL?"

Just like I as a military mamber do not have the ability to call troops back from overseas.
I have to live with what President W tells me to do.
I don't have the ability to decide the NC or change the way the NC is decided.
I have to live with what the powers at each of the major conferences decided to do.  THEY decided on the BCS.

I would prefer a playoff with the top 4 teams.  Hard to imagine someone outside the top four deserving the NC.  Have two big bowls to decide who played for the NC and that is that.

[stAtefan]

Sure Oklahoma got tore up by Kstate in the Big12 championship game, but who did USC play in their conference championship game?  No one.
I think that USC was rightfully in 3rd place going into the bowl selection.  LSU and OU played an additional game, and in that additional game OU lost.  What if USC had been forced to play Cal again?
I think the USC's claim to the 04 championship is a joke.  

[EastexHawg]

There are things that can be done to improve the selection process, but in the end it is still the same old thing...teams being SELECTED to play for the championship.  IMO, anything short of a true playoff is a farce.

There is no legitimate reason not to have a playoff.  Not only does every other NCAA sport have a playoff to determine its champion...but every other division of FOOTBALL has a playoff, too.

I've heard lots of arguments.  "The season will be too long for these kids."  Really?  That's a strange argument, considering many of them played 14, 15, or even 16 games in HIGH SCHOOL if their teams were good enough to reach the state championship game.

"It will take too much time away from academics."  Really?  Playing football games on weekends in December and early January...when school is out for the Christmas break...will hurt academics?  As opposed to BASKETBALL, in which athletes make road trips to Knoxville, Gainesville, and Columbia, SC DURING THE WEEK WHILE SCHOOL IS IN SESSION?

It's all BS.  The good ol' boy system doesn't want a playoff, so they come up with all these excuses to justify their sham.  It baffles me that some people can't see through it and merrily proclaim the BCS as the "official" and "legitimate" annointer of champions.

[hogsNbeer]

There are things that can be done to improve the selection process, but in the end it is still the same old thing...teams being SELECTED to play for the championship.  IMO, anything short of a true playoff is a farce.

There is no legitimate reason not to have a playoff.  Not only does every other NCAA sport have a playoff to determine its champion...but every other division of FOOTBALL has a playoff, too.

I've heard lots of arguments.  "The season will be too long for these kids."  Really?  That's a strange argument, considering many of them played 14, 15, or even 16 games in HIGH SCHOOL if their teams were good enough to reach the state championship game.

"It will take too much time away from academics."  Really?  Playing football games on weekends in December and early January...when school is out for the Christmas break...will hurt academics?  As opposed to BASKETBALL, in which athletes make road trips to Knoxville, Gainesville, and Columbia, SC DURING THE WEEK WHILE SCHOOL IS IN SESSION?

It's all BS.  The good ol' boy system doesn't want a playoff, so they come up with all these excuses to justify their sham.  It baffles me that some people can't see through it and merrily proclaim the BCS as the "official" and "legitimate" annointer of champions.

I agree East...I've wanted a Playoff a long time........ WE'll never see it though.....and that's sad...

[Pork Twain]

Sure Oklahoma got tore up by Kstate in the Big12 championship game, but who did USC play in their conference championship game?  No one.
I think that USC was rightfully in 3rd place going into the bowl selection.  LSU and OU played an additional game, and in that additional game OU lost.  What if USC had been forced to play Cal again?
I think the USC's claim to the 04 championship is a joke. 

LSU and Auburn both played tougher schedules than USC those two years but the AP/ESPN doesn't have a boner for the SEC like they do for Stoops and Pete.  I am surprised that there are so many SEC fans that will defend USC's right to half LSU's trophy after looking at who they both played.
2004
Auburn played:
LSU (9-3), Tennessee (10-3), Georgia (10-2) Tennessee (10-3) & Virginia Tech (10-3)
USC played:
Virginia Tech (10-3), Cal (10-2), Arizona St (9-3) & Olahomo (12-1)

In 2003
LSU played:
Georgia (11-3), Florida (8-5), Auburn (8-5), Mississippi (10-3), Arkansas (9-3), Georgia (11-3), Oklahomo (12-2)
USC played:
Auburn (8-5), Cal (8-6), Washington St (10-3), Michigan (10-3)

Saying they deserved it more than Aub I can understand a little but saying they deserved part of LSU's I don't get. 

Florida beat LSU in 2003 but their losses were to Miami (11-2), Tennessee (10-3), Mississippi (10-3), Fla St (10-3) and Iowa (10-3)

Cal beat USC in 2003 and their losses were to Kansas St (11-4), Colorado St (7-6), Utah (10-2), Oregon St (8-5), UCLA (6-7) and Oregon (8-5)

Lucky for LSU the BCS not only factors in the AP rankings but also takes into account the strength of schedule.  Something the AP doesn't always take into account.

I agree that the only way this will ever be solved is with at least a 4-team playoff.

[Wolfhound05]

LSU is the champion.

[scorekeeper]

not I.

LSU owns that one IMO.

is SC not the MOST overrated so called "dynasty" ever? i mean seriously they won ONE NC. im not sure the great nebraska teams of the 90's got this much love.

I agree with you all the way

[Corkscrew Johnson]

Quick history lesson:  LSU met Oklahoma in the 2003-04 BCS national championship game, despite (1) OU's blowout loss to Kansas St. in the Big 12 championship game and (2) the fact that USC was ranked #2 in the AP polls.  The AP voters, in an attempt to spurn the BSC system for ignoring what they thought was their rightful #1 vs. #2 matchup, voted USC its national champion and not LSU, after both teams won their bowl games. 

I remember a slightly different scenario.  Before the conference championship games, OK was #1, USC #2, and LSU #3.  After OK was absolutely humiliated by K-state, USC went to #1 in the AP poll and LSU was #2 while OK remained #3.  The BCS had LSU #1, OK#2 (or OK #1--LSU #2), and USC #3 because the USC strength of schedule was not as good as the other two teams.

The AP didn't vote USC #1 after they beat MI in the Rose Bowl just to show up the BCS.  The AP simply voted the same way it had before the BCS rankings were even released.  USC didn't lose, so they remained #1.  After the season, the AP withdrew their system from BCS consideration--to show them up.

Pesonally, I applaud the AP for maintaining their integrity.  They didn't change their rankings because a collection of computers didn't agree with them.  Also, OK had ZERO right to play in the Sugar Bowl against LSU.  LSU had a close early season loss to FL, USC had a close early season loss to Cal, but OK was completely demolished in their own conference championship game by a 3 or 4 loss K-state team.  Don't get me wrong, as a Razorback and SEC fan I loved seeing LSU man-handle OK--and that's just what they did; nonetheless, I was pleased that both LSU and USC were named champions in some form or fashion.  The two should've played in the Sugar Bowl.

good argument +1

[Albert Einswine]

Whatever dude.  If we were to finish #1 in the AP you'd have your index finger in the air screaming, "We're #1,  National Champs baby!" like every other Hog fan in America and if you say you wouldn't you're just kidding yourself.

I hope one of these days the Hogs give me the ability to prove you wrong.

Incredible!  You hope that one of these days the Hogs have a glorious season.   A season so glorious that the majority of the Associated Press's sportswriters declare us the National Champs but the committee at the BCS shuns us for the BCS championship game.   

Oh how the glory of this circumstance would afford you the high honor of standing on your lofty principles and affirm the supremacy of the Almighty BCS and their lone legitimate Champion of College Football.

If only our beloved Hogs can come up just short of your exalted BCS Championship so that you get the opportunity to take this most moral high ground.

Excuse me when I tell you that I smell bullshite.

[Pork Twain]

Whatever dude.  If we were to finish #1 in the AP you'd have your index finger in the air screaming, "We're #1,  National Champs baby!" like every other Hog fan in America and if you say you wouldn't you're just kidding yourself.

I hope one of these days the Hogs give me the ability to prove you wrong.

Incredible!  You hope that one of these days the Hogs have a glorious season.   A season so glorious that the majority of the Associated Press's sportswriters declare us the National Champs but the committee at the BCS shuns us for the BCS championship game.  

Oh how the glory of this circumstance would afford you the high honor of standing on your lofty principles and affirm the supremacy of the Almighty BCS and their lone legitimate Champion of College Football.

If only our beloved Hogs can come up just short of your exalted BCS Championship so that you get the opportunity to take this most moral high ground.

Excuse me when I tell you that I smell bullshite.

I would love to go undefeated...  How many times has Arkansas EVER done that?  Once or twice???  To me that would mean that our hogs were good enough to win it all and give us all hope again that they could.  Right now not many have that hope.  I would prefer to win it all but I sure would love to go undefeated and build up our program from there.

Sorry but I would rather finish 13-0 and not be the NC than finish 10-3 or 11-2.

Go whipe off your top lip and maybe the smell will go away.

[Root Hog]

The misplaced love for OU robbed robbed both LSU and USC.  For me, Texas' 2006 championship is the only legit one in years (even if it was dumb luck). Would USC have beaten undefeated Auburn?  I'm not convinced.

[EastexHawg]

BTW...USC is 3-0 against the SEC in the last four years.  Besides their brutal gang rape of the Hogs last year, their other two wins vs. the SEC during that time are against...

AUBURN.

[Pork Twain]

BTW...USC is 3-0 against the SEC in the last four years.  Besides their brutal gang rape of the Hogs last year, their other two wins vs. the SEC during that time are against...

AUBURN.

Beating Auburn 23-0 in 2003 and 24-17 in 2002 does not make them the NC in 2004.  I think Auburn might have a little better team in 04 than they had in either of the other two years.
Look at who was drafted from Auburn from that 2004 team:
Silas Daniels WR       
Bret Eddins DE       
Danny Lindsey OG       
Jay Ratliff DE       
Junior Rosegreen S       
Ronnie Brown RB 1 (2) Miami
Carnell Williams RB 1 (5) Tampa Bay
Carlos Rogers CB 1 (9) Washington
Jason Campbell QB 1 (25) Washington
Jay Ratliff DT 7 (224) Dallas

None of that matters since the BCS put its darling Oklahomo in the NC game.

[James K. Pork]

The BCS ceased all right to singular legitimacy the year Solich's Nebraska team made it to the final.  At that moment, we were placed right back where we were before Roy Kramer came up with the idea.  This made it possible for a split national title, because there was an issue regarding whether the Bowl Championship Series actually produced a #1 versus #2 matchup.  When #2 doesn't live up to the hype, this essentially allows #3 or even #4 to stake a claim.  LSU's dominance against Oklahoma, ironically, was the key to Southern Cal getting a share; exactly the kind of scenario the BCS was supposed to prevent.

In this age of 85-scholarship limits and increasing parity across the BCS conference spectrum, the thought that any bowl set-up can determine a true national champion is an anachronism.

When the money talks loud enough, we'll get our 8 or 16-team playoff.

[Pork Twain]

The BCS ceased all right to singular legitimacy the year Solich's Nebraska team made it to the final.  At that moment, we were placed right back where we were before Roy Kramer came up with the idea.  This made it possible for a split national title, because there was an issue regarding whether the Bowl Championship Series actually produced a #1 versus #2 matchup.  When #2 doesn't live up to the hype, this essentially allows #3 or even #4 to stake a claim.  LSU's dominance against Oklahoma, ironically, was the key to Southern Cal getting a share; exactly the kind of scenario the BCS was supposed to prevent.

In this age of 85-scholarship limits and increasing parity across the BCS conference spectrum, the thought that any bowl set-up can determine a true national champion is an anachronism.

When the money talks loud enough, we'll get our 8 or 16-team playoff.

I still say you only need a four team/three bowl championship series.  How often have people said the #5 ranked team deserved the NC???  You put 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 and the winner plays in the NC game.

[Albert Einswine]

Whatever dude.  If we were to finish #1 in the AP you'd have your index finger in the air screaming, "We're #1,  National Champs baby!" like every other Hog fan in America and if you say you wouldn't you're just kidding yourself.

I hope one of these days the Hogs give me the ability to prove you wrong.

Incredible!  You hope that one of these days the Hogs have a glorious season.   A season so glorious that the majority of the Associated Press's sportswriters declare us the National Champs but the committee at the BCS shuns us for the BCS championship game.  

Oh how the glory of this circumstance would afford you the high honor of standing on your lofty principles and affirm the supremacy of the Almighty BCS and their lone legitimate Champion of College Football.

If only our beloved Hogs can come up just short of your exalted BCS Championship so that you get the opportunity to take this most moral high ground.

Excuse me when I tell you that I smell bullshite.

I would love to go undefeated...  How many times has Arkansas EVER done that?  Once or twice???  To me that would mean that our hogs were good enough to win it all and give us all hope again that they could.  Right now not many have that hope.  I would prefer to win it all but I sure would love to go undefeated and build up our program from there.

Sorry but I would rather finish 13-0 and not be the NC than finish 10-3 or 11-2.

Go whipe off your top lip and maybe the smell will go away.

Poor performance wingnut.  I laid out the scenario in which the Hogs would give you the opportunity to prove me wrong and you made a feeble attempt to sidestep it.   You may have a promising career in politics after you retire from the service.

I repeat,  in the exact same scenario if the AP were to name us their #1 team and National Champion,  you'd stand with the rest of Razorback Nation and thrust your index finger skyward yelling "we're #1,  National Champs baby"!

And the bullshite I smell isn't coming from my upper lip,  it's coming from the piles you're shoveling into this thread.   That's another attribute that will come in handy in your future as a politician. 

[Albert Einswine]

Just for the record SuperHog1975,  I agree with you on the playoff.  Any form of playoff is superior to the joke that's in place at present.

[kuhog]

The he11 with all of this. We need a playoff system.

[stAtefan]

I still say you only need a four team/three bowl championship series.  How often have people said the #5 ranked team deserved the NC???  You put 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 and the winner plays in the NC game.

+1
Thats the best idea out there.
I really don't think a large playoff system would be that good. 
College football is so fun because every game, every week is like a playoff game.
This system would perpetuate the current importance of the regular season, but would also render a true national champ every year no questions asked.

[EastexHawg]

BTW...USC is 3-0 against the SEC in the last four years.  Besides their brutal gang rape of the Hogs last year, their other two wins vs. the SEC during that time are against...

AUBURN.

Beating Auburn 23-0 in 2003 and 24-17 in 2002 does not make them the NC in 2004.  I think Auburn might have a little better team in 04 than they had in either of the other two years.
Look at who was drafted from Auburn from that 2004 team:
Silas Daniels WR       
Bret Eddins DE       
Danny Lindsey OG       
Jay Ratliff DE       
Junior Rosegreen S       
Ronnie Brown RB 1 (2) Miami
Carnell Williams RB 1 (5) Tampa Bay
Carlos Rogers CB 1 (9) Washington
Jason Campbell QB 1 (25) Washington
Jay Ratliff DT 7 (224) Dallas

None of that matters since the BCS put its darling Oklahomo in the NC game.

Weren't all of those guys on Auburn's 2002 and 2003 teams, too?  You know, the teams USC beat two years straight?

And if we want to look at who was drafted, take a look at how many players off USC's 2004 squad were drafted...or will be drafted in the near future.

[Pork Twain]

Whatever dude.  If we were to finish #1 in the AP you'd have your index finger in the air screaming, "We're #1,  National Champs baby!" like every other Hog fan in America and if you say you wouldn't you're just kidding yourself.

I hope one of these days the Hogs give me the ability to prove you wrong.

Incredible!  You hope that one of these days the Hogs have a glorious season.   A season so glorious that the majority of the Associated Press's sportswriters declare us the National Champs but the committee at the BCS shuns us for the BCS championship game.  

Oh how the glory of this circumstance would afford you the high honor of standing on your lofty principles and affirm the supremacy of the Almighty BCS and their lone legitimate Champion of College Football.

If only our beloved Hogs can come up just short of your exalted BCS Championship so that you get the opportunity to take this most moral high ground.

Excuse me when I tell you that I smell bullshite.

I would love to go undefeated...  How many times has Arkansas EVER done that?  Once or twice???  To me that would mean that our hogs were good enough to win it all and give us all hope again that they could.  Right now not many have that hope.  I would prefer to win it all but I sure would love to go undefeated and build up our program from there.

Sorry but I would rather finish 13-0 and not be the NC than finish 10-3 or 11-2.

Go whipe off your top lip and maybe the smell will go away.

Poor performance wingnut.  I laid out the scenario in which the Hogs would give you the opportunity to prove me wrong and you made a feeble attempt to sidestep it.   You may have a promising career in politics after you retire from the service.

I repeat,  in the exact same scenario if the AP were to name us their #1 team and National Champion,  you'd stand with the rest of Razorback Nation and thrust your index finger skyward yelling "we're #1,  National Champs baby"!

And the bullshite I smell isn't coming from my upper lip,  it's coming from the piles you're shoveling into this thread.   That's another attribute that will come in handy in your future as a politician. 

I have way to many skelotons in my closet to run for office.  I am, however, a man of principle and have been my entire life.  I will stand by my belief that USC does not deserve a peice of the 2003 NC because the BCS is what everyone agreed upon.  I would not flip if it was Arkansas.  It may be hard to believe but there are people in this world that stick by their words and I am one of them.  The AP is powerless to name a NC.  They lost that power when the major conferences agreed to fall in line with the BCS.

[Pork Twain]

BTW...USC is 3-0 against the SEC in the last four years.  Besides their brutal gang rape of the Hogs last year, their other two wins vs. the SEC during that time are against...

AUBURN.

Beating Auburn 23-0 in 2003 and 24-17 in 2002 does not make them the NC in 2004.  I think Auburn might have a little better team in 04 than they had in either of the other two years.
Look at who was drafted from Auburn from that 2004 team:
Silas Daniels WR       
Bret Eddins DE       
Danny Lindsey OG       
Jay Ratliff DE       
Junior Rosegreen S       
Ronnie Brown RB 1 (2) Miami
Carnell Williams RB 1 (5) Tampa Bay
Carlos Rogers CB 1 (9) Washington
Jason Campbell QB 1 (25) Washington
Jay Ratliff DT 7 (224) Dallas

None of that matters since the BCS put its darling Oklahomo in the NC game.

Weren't all of those guys on Auburn's 2002 and 2003 teams, too?  You know, the teams USC beat two years straight?

And if we want to look at who was drafted, take a look at how many players off USC's 2004 squad were drafted...or will be drafted in the near future.

Hard to imagine players playing better as Seniors but it does happen.  I only listed Auburn's Seniors and here are USC's.
KENECHI UDEZE DE 1 (20) Minnesota
JACOB ROGERS OT 2 (52) Dallas
KEARY COLBERT WR 2 (62) Carolina
WILL POOLE CB 4 (102) Miami
Does this compare fairly with 4 picks in the top 25?

[EastexHawg]

How about two Heisman trophy winners (Leinart and Bush...one the #2 pick in this year's draft and the other #10, I believe), along with Len Dale White and others? 

Do only Auburn's players gain experience and get better from one year to the next...of do USC's do the same?

[James K. Pork]

I still say you only need a four team/three bowl championship series.  How often have people said the #5 ranked team deserved the NC???  You put 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 and the winner plays in the NC game.

SuperHog1975, I've never heard a number 5 program state they deserved it.  You have a good point there for a 4-team playoff.

I prefer the 16-team format I-AA operates.  I like the opportunity tough programs from power conferences, particularly the Southern Conference, get for the title even if they've been tripped up a time or two playing in a ferociously-competitive conference.

[Pork Twain]

How about two Heisman trophy winners (Leinart and Bush...one the #2 pick in this year's draft and the other #10, I believe), along with Len Dale White and others? 

Do only Auburn's players gain experience and get better from one year to the next...of do USC's do the same?

That was Matt's first year as a starter and also the first year for RB and LW.  I am sure they improved as they got older.

USC team Stats 2003 - http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamstats?teamId=30&year=2003

Aub team Stats 2003 - http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamstats?teamId=2&year=2003

[Corkscrew Johnson]

I still say you only need a four team/three bowl championship series.  How often have people said the #5 ranked team deserved the NC???  You put 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 and the winner plays in the NC game.

SuperHog1975, I've never heard a number 5 program state they deserved it.  You have a good point there for a 4-team playoff.

I prefer the 16-team format I-AA operates.  I like the opportunity tough programs from power conferences, particularly the Southern Conference, get for the title even if they've been tripped up a time or two playing in a ferociously-competitive conference.

getting off the topic, but...

your idea is good in theory, but the argument will never end.  for instance, in the year in question (2003-04), we had our three contenders with claims on the 1, 2, and 3 seeds (OU, USC, LSU).  who gets the 4th spot?

There were SIX legitimate contenders for that 4th spot, each at 10-2 (Michigan, Texas, Ohio St., Tennessee, FSU, and Miami).  Not to metion THREE more one loss teams (Boise, TCU, Miami of Ohio).  And of course KSU who donkey punched OU in the Big 12 finals.  

So who gets the 4th spot?  Any of these teams were good enough to knock off USC or LSU on the right day.  How do you choose from 6 big-time programs with the same exact record?  I'm not arguing against a playoff, or for the Bowl System, or for the BSC, its just that there will always be problems...

[swinemaster]

This very debate is one of my favorite things about College Football.  If we didn't have this debate, what else would we talk about? 

[HoopS]

In the future, who gets the 4th slot?  The winner of the 4th of 4 Mega-Conferences.

I see a day of 4 16-20 team conferences.  Each will have 2 divisions.  Each will have a conference championship game, with the winner slotted into the Championship series.  The bowl system as we know it will cease.  The debate then will be 4 teams or 8?

The only problem I have with this is, by the time this happens, I will be debating with my family about either attending these games or taking that trip to Mars that I have been promising.   Of course, maybe they could play the game on Mars and we would all be happy....

[hogsNbeer]

Whatever dude.  If we were to finish #1 in the AP you'd have your index finger in the air screaming, "We're #1,  National Champs baby!" like every other Hog fan in America and if you say you wouldn't you're just kidding yourself.

I hope one of these days the Hogs give me the ability to prove you wrong.

Incredible!  You hope that one of these days the Hogs have a glorious season.   A season so glorious that the majority of the Associated Press's sportswriters declare us the National Champs but the committee at the BCS shuns us for the BCS championship game.  

Oh how the glory of this circumstance would afford you the high honor of standing on your lofty principles and affirm the supremacy of the Almighty BCS and their lone legitimate Champion of College Football.

If only our beloved Hogs can come up just short of your exalted BCS Championship so that you get the opportunity to take this most moral high ground.

Excuse me when I tell you that I smell bullshite.

I would love to go undefeated...  How many times has Arkansas EVER done that?  Once or twice???  To me that would mean that our hogs were good enough to win it all and give us all hope again that they could.  Right now not many have that hope.  I would prefer to win it all but I sure would love to go undefeated and build up our program from there.

Sorry but I would rather finish 13-0 and not be the NC than finish 10-3 or 11-2.

Go whipe off your top lip and maybe the smell will go away.

Poor performance wingnut.  I laid out the scenario in which the Hogs would give you the opportunity to prove me wrong and you made a feeble attempt to sidestep it.   You may have a promising career in politics after you retire from the service.

I repeat,  in the exact same scenario if the AP were to name us their #1 team and National Champion,  you'd stand with the rest of Razorback Nation and thrust your index finger skyward yelling "we're #1,  National Champs baby"!

And the bullshite I smell isn't coming from my upper lip,  it's coming from the piles you're shoveling into this thread.   That's another attribute that will come in handy in your future as a politician. 

I have way to many skelotons in my closet to run for office.  I am, however, a man of principle and have been my entire life.  I will stand by my belief that USC does not deserve a peice of the 2003 NC because the BCS is what everyone agreed upon.  I would not flip if it was Arkansas.  It may be hard to believe but there are people in this world that stick by their words and I am one of them.  The AP is powerless to name a NC.  They lost that power when the major conferences agreed to fall in line with the BCS.

Superhog, all I know is every single commentator, or sports analyst, on whatever channel mentions co champs when they talk about it........  Regardless what the conferences agreed upon....... JMO...

[Albert Einswine]

  The AP is powerless to name a NC.  They lost that power when the major conferences agreed to fall in line with the BCS.

The major conferences agreement regarding the BCS does not abrogate the Associated Press's right to do what it has always done regarding college football polling,  to conduct it's own poll and name a champion accordingly.

[Pork Twain]

Whatever dude.  If we were to finish #1 in the AP you'd have your index finger in the air screaming, "We're #1,  National Champs baby!" like every other Hog fan in America and if you say you wouldn't you're just kidding yourself.

I hope one of these days the Hogs give me the ability to prove you wrong.

Incredible!  You hope that one of these days the Hogs have a glorious season.   A season so glorious that the majority of the Associated Press's sportswriters declare us the National Champs but the committee at the BCS shuns us for the BCS championship game.  

Oh how the glory of this circumstance would afford you the high honor of standing on your lofty principles and affirm the supremacy of the Almighty BCS and their lone legitimate Champion of College Football.

If only our beloved Hogs can come up just short of your exalted BCS Championship so that you get the opportunity to take this most moral high ground.

Excuse me when I tell you that I smell bullshite.

I would love to go undefeated...  How many times has Arkansas EVER done that?  Once or twice???  To me that would mean that our hogs were good enough to win it all and give us all hope again that they could.  Right now not many have that hope.  I would prefer to win it all but I sure would love to go undefeated and build up our program from there.

Sorry but I would rather finish 13-0 and not be the NC than finish 10-3 or 11-2.

Go whipe off your top lip and maybe the smell will go away.

Poor performance wingnut.  I laid out the scenario in which the Hogs would give you the opportunity to prove me wrong and you made a feeble attempt to sidestep it.   You may have a promising career in politics after you retire from the service.

I repeat,  in the exact same scenario if the AP were to name us their #1 team and National Champion,  you'd stand with the rest of Razorback Nation and thrust your index finger skyward yelling "we're #1,  National Champs baby"!

And the bullshite I smell isn't coming from my upper lip,  it's coming from the piles you're shoveling into this thread.   That's another attribute that will come in handy in your future as a politician. 

I have way to many skelotons in my closet to run for office.  I am, however, a man of principle and have been my entire life.  I will stand by my belief that USC does not deserve a peice of the 2003 NC because the BCS is what everyone agreed upon.  I would not flip if it was Arkansas.  It may be hard to believe but there are people in this world that stick by their words and I am one of them.  The AP is powerless to name a NC.  They lost that power when the major conferences agreed to fall in line with the BCS.

Superhog, all I know is every single commentator, or sports analyst, on whatever channel mentions co champs when they talk about it........  Regardless what the conferences agreed upon....... JMO...

Who do you think makes up the Associated Press???

[EastexHawg]

How about two Heisman trophy winners (Leinart and Bush...one the #2 pick in this year's draft and the other #10, I believe), along with Len Dale White and others? 

Do only Auburn's players gain experience and get better from one year to the next...of do USC's do the same?

That was Matt's first year as a starter and also the first year for RB and LW.  I am sure they improved as they got older.

USC team Stats 2003 - http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamstats?teamId=30&year=2003

Aub team Stats 2003 - http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamstats?teamId=2&year=2003

The year in question...2004...was the year Leinart won the Heisman.  His top competitor for the award was his teammate and the guy who won it the next year (Bush).  If we have a "draft" and I get the first pick at both the QB and tailback position, I'm taking Leinart over Jason Campbell and Reggie Bush over either Cadillac.  How about you?

Then, I'm going to take Len Dale White over Ronnie Brown, and Dwayne Jarrett over any wideout Auburn has or has had in the last ten years.

What about you?

[Pork Twain]

This has gotten so painful I got my years all screwed up.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamstats?teamId=2&year=2004
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamstats?teamId=30&year=2004

[SCcufflinks]

"For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
March 23, 2004

President Welcomes NCAA Fall National Champs to White House
Remarks by the President to NCAA Fall National Champions
The South Lawn


3:21 P.M. EST

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you for coming. Behave yourself up on the balcony. (Laughter.) That would be you. This is champions' day here at the White House, and it is my honor to welcome some great champs. We are proud you're here.

I want to thank those who represent the universities. Here present: James Moeser, the Chancellor, and Dick Baddour, the Athletic Director of the University of North Carolina. We appreciate you being here. Mike Garett, who is the Athletic Director of the University of Southern California, is with us today. And Bill Jenkins, who is the President of LSU, along with Roger Ogden, who is the Chairman of the LSU Board of Supervisors and Skip Bertman, who is the Athletic Director, we're proud you're here.

As you can probably see, we've got some members of the United States Congress with us here today, and there seems to be quite a large and vibrant delegation from the great state of Louisiana. (Applause.) Senator John Breaux -- and Mary Landrieu are with us today. (Applause.) Mighty Tiger fans. Richard Baker and Jim McCrery and Chris John and Rodney Alexander, thank you all for coming. We're proud you're here.

From California, Congressman Chris Cox and Dianne Watson are with us today. Thank you all for coming. (Applause.) Congressmen David Price and Mike McIntyre from North Carolina are with us as well. Thank you all for being here. (Applause.)

First, it's my honor to recognize the football co-champs this year, LSU and USC. Fantastic group of athletes and teams that battled to the end. Any good team obviously requires good players. These teams have got good players, but it also requires really good coaches. Pete Carroll and Nick Saban are two of the finest coaches in the United States. We're glad you're here. (Applause.)

There was quite a lot of discussion about who really was number one. My attitude is, the South Lawn is a pretty good size. (Laughter and applause.) Never mind. (Laughter.)

I appreciate the class of these two programs, and the grace they demonstrated under pressure. Both schools, LSU and USC, are, in fact, national champs. And we're proud to call you national champs. (Applause.)

Obviously, in order to be a national champ, you've got to field fine players at every position. I particularly want to say something about USC tailback Reggie Bush. (Applause.) Where is he? His teammates call him "the President." (Laughter.) "President Bush." You must feel pretty comfortable here at the White House, "President Bush." (Laughter.)...."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/03/20040323-7.html

Sounds pretty official to me.

[Pork Twain]

You got me there Bush has never down anything screwed up.

[James K. Pork]

getting off the topic, but...

your idea is good in theory, but the argument will never end.  for instance, in the year in question (2003-04), we had our three contenders with claims on the 1, 2, and 3 seeds (OU, USC, LSU).  who gets the 4th spot?

There were SIX legitimate contenders for that 4th spot, each at 10-2 (Michigan, Texas, Ohio St., Tennessee, FSU, and Miami).  Not to metion THREE more one loss teams (Boise, TCU, Miami of Ohio).  And of course KSU who donkey punched OU in the Big 12 finals. 

So who gets the 4th spot?  Any of these teams were good enough to knock off USC or LSU on the right day.  How do you choose from 6 big-time programs with the same exact record?  I'm not arguing against a playoff, or for the Bowl System, or for the BSC, its just that there will always be problems...

The 4-team playoff was Superhog1975's preference.  If that was the best I could get out of these ivory tower hypocrites running the NCAA, then I would be satisfied.  I'd hope for an expansion to at least an 8-team format later on.

Some of the most exciting football games I've seen in the last several years have been played in the I-AA playoffs.  16 teams playing for the same goal; it brings an element to the post-season that many bowl games have lacked over the years.

[GTOWNHOG]

in 1964-65.  11-0 in '64 and NC is voted to BAMA BEFORE the bowls are played.  10-1 in '65 and once again BAMA is voted NC AFTER the bowls are played.  Go figure.

I think you have to stick with the BCS if you are to h ave any consistency.  LSU won it on the field.