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How About We Give Mike A Little Bit Of Credit...

Started by Youngsta71701, February 11, 2017, 09:55:56 pm

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hogsanity

Quote from: hawganatic on February 15, 2017, 02:08:40 pm
You know you're really arguing against yourself when you use the incoming classes as justification for not making the coaching change.  If a coach has to depend on a great in-state class 7 and 8 years into his tenure, then he probably isn't a great coach.

Great coaches take the talent they have and make it work.  The great players put them in the top tier, final 4/elite 8 range.  A good coach with average talent should be able to get his team into the tournament more years than not.

Also, while he may be doing well with that crop of instaters, he has seen the best talent in the state go elsewhere in several classes, Goodwin, Allen, Monk among others.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Youngsta71701

Quote from: hawganatic on February 15, 2017, 02:02:18 pm
3.  LOL about DTS.  Garbage show that doesn't reflect reality.  I'm pretty sure the talking points on that show in 2011 were we would lose the class if we fired Pelphrey.  Seems like that class still showed up to campus.  Need to make the changes necessary for the program to succeed and let everything else fall into place.
I'm not talking about the whole show. I'm talking about the man that has direct contact with each recruit themselves. The man that has a lot of inside knowledge about each recruit. If he's saying these things you might wanna pay attention and stop with the bullheadedness.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

 

Youngsta71701

Quote from: Sivad on February 15, 2017, 02:05:19 pm
Allegedly for Mike, for The Razorbacks not so much.
They want to win a championship for themselves first I'm sure, then Mike and the Razorbacks are 1a and 1b. Like it or not. They are a package deal.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: hawganatic on February 15, 2017, 02:08:40 pm
You know you're really arguing against yourself when you use the incoming classes as justification for not making the coaching change.  If a coach has to depend on a great in-state class 7 and 8 years into his tenure, then he probably isn't a great coach.

Great coaches take the talent they have and make it work.  The great players put them in the top tier, final 4/elite 8 range.  A great coach with average talent should be able to get his team into the tournament more years than not.
1. Not saying I'm depending on the incoming classes but there is no doubt in my mind they are going to help a lot.
2. So your telling me you can win the Kentucky Derby if given a mule?

Not saying the players are bad just making a point. You need the best horses in any sport to win consistently. A good coach can only take a bad or average team so far but good players can take a good coach over the top. Now if you can get both at the same time then that's a marriage made in heaven.

In other words Coach Cal isn't a great coach without all of those great players. You can draw up any scheme you want but if you don't have the players that can execute it, it won't matter.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Justifiable Hogicide

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 02:42:58 pm
So your telling me you can win the Kentucky Derby if given a mule?
Secretariat would not have won a race with Oliver Miller as the jockey.
We need a new coach.

Youngsta71701

Quote from: hogsanity on February 15, 2017, 02:10:29 pm
Also, while he may be doing well with that crop of instaters, he has seen the best talent in the state go elsewhere in several classes, Goodwin, Allen, Monk among others.
Trying to beat out Kentucky for the top recruits in basketball is just like trying to beat out Alabama for the top recruits in football. Not going to happen to often. Archie was already committed to Kentucky when Mike got the job at Arkansas. Now Allen to Florida was more about Billy Donovan than anything else. He already had that relationship with Donovan. He had already signed his LOI when the new coach came in. Monk was a family business decision and a Kentucky deal more than anything else. Had nothing to do with Mike. Name the others from Arkansas that was offered by Mike and turned it down?
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: Justifiable Hogicide on February 15, 2017, 02:53:37 pm
Secretariat would not have won a race with Oliver Miller as the jockey.
We need a new coach.
Whoever was the jockey when Secretariat won the race wouldn't have won the race with a mule or probably any other horse for that matter. Secretariat was the man or the horse, however you wanna look at it, lol. You know we can go back and forth on this right...

You think the Bulls would have won all those championships without Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen?
What about Cleveland without LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, and Kevin Love?
What about the Arkansas Razorbacks in 1994 without Corliss? How many have we won since then and how many did we win before?
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Justifiable Hogicide

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 02:57:07 pm
Whoever was the jockey when Secretariat won the race wouldn't have won the race with a mule or probably any other horse for that matter. You know we can go back and forth on this right...
In BB who is responsible for bringing in the thoroughbreds vs the mules you now claim Arkansas must play with? Yes, the head coach himself - the Mighty Mite Anderson.

hogsanity

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 02:35:21 pm
They want to win a championship for themselves first I'm sure, then Mike and the Razorbacks are 1a and 1b. Like it or not. They are a package deal.

Can't be, you either want to win it for the school or the coach, they can't play the " I want to win for the Hogs As long as Mike is the coach " if that's the case you just want to win it for Fitz's old friend Mike.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hawganatic

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 02:33:25 pm
I'm not talking about the whole show. I'm talking about the man that has direct contact with each recruit themselves. The man that has a lot of inside knowledge about each recruit. If he's saying these things you might wanna pay attention and stop with the bullheadedness.

Still the same spin.  We don't know what these kids would do until a change is made.  We heard this same schtick in 2011 and that entire class showed up.  Even if they do decide to go elsewhere this program isn't about just a handful of recruits.  It's much bigger than that.

And not agreeing with you doesn't equal bullheadedness.   Bullheadedness is looking at the results for a six year span, and not accepting that reality.

Youngsta71701

Quote from: Justifiable Hogicide on February 15, 2017, 03:00:37 pm
In BB who is responsible for bringing in the thoroughbreds vs the mules you now claim Arkansas must play with? Yes, the head coach himself - the Mighty Mite Anderson.
Once again you either aren't reading or your reading too much into it. Did I not say I'm not calling them mules I was just making a point? It's called a figure of speech. We have some good players we just don't have as many good players as Kentucky, Florida, and South Carolina right now.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: hogsanity on February 15, 2017, 03:02:30 pm
Can't be, you either want to win it for the school or the coach, they can't play the " I want to win for the Hogs As long as Mike is the coach " if that's the case you just want to win it for Fitz's old friend Mike.
This is exactly what Fitz said on the radio yesterday. He said they wanna to win won for Mike and the Arkansas Razorbacks. Personally, I don't give a damn what their motivation is. "Just Win Baby"
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: hawganatic on February 15, 2017, 03:03:12 pm
Still the same spin.  We don't know what these kids would do until a change is made.  We heard this same schtick in 2011 and that entire class showed up.  Even if they do decide to go elsewhere this program isn't about just a handful of recruits.  It's much bigger than that.

And not agreeing with you doesn't equal bullheadedness.   Bullheadedness is looking at the results for a six year span, and not accepting that reality.
The 2011 class was already signed before Mike took over. Don't keep leaving that little tid bit out on purpose. There's an early signing period in basketball remember.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

 

hawganatic

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 02:42:58 pm

2. So your telling me you can win the Kentucky Derby if given a mule?


Bad analogy bro.  Mules aren't anywhere near the same class a a thoroughbred.  That would be saying the players we have right now don't belong in college basketball.  Is that your point?

And yes, you can take the lowest ranked horse in the derby, put the great jockey on him, and he is going to finish a lot higher than with an average jockey.

hawganatic

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 03:06:26 pm
The 2011 class was already signed before Mike took over. Don't keep leaving that little tid bit out on purpose. There's an early signing period in basketball remember.

And you're sure they weren't offered full releases when we made the change?

Youngsta71701

Quote from: hawganatic on February 15, 2017, 03:06:52 pm
Bad analogy bro.  Mules aren't anywhere near the same class a a thoroughbred.  That would be saying the players we have right now don't belong in college basketball.  Is that your point?

And yes, you can take the lowest ranked horse in the derby, put the great jockey on him, and he is going to finish a lot higher than with an average jockey.
I'm sure there's some truth to this but he's not going to finish near the top or win every race like so many want Mike to do. Hell, he's not even going to win every race he should win. Everybody has a bad day at the office from time to time and everybody has a good day from time to time.

Some of us need to STHU sit back and let the man finish this season.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: hawganatic on February 15, 2017, 03:07:40 pm
And you're sure they weren't offered full releases when we made the change?
Possible, but Mike could have talked them into staying just like White talked Allen into staying. Once your signed with a school you have to go through a lot of trouble to be released from that scholarship. You see how Saban tried to do that one kid last year.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Hawg Red

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 02:55:52 pm
Trying to beat out Kentucky for the top recruits in basketball is just like trying to beat out Alabama for the top recruits in football. Not going to happen to often. Archie was already committed to Kentucky when Mike got the job at Arkansas. Now Allen to Florida was more about Billy Donovan than anything else. He already had that relationship with Donovan. He had already signed his LOI when the new coach came in. Monk was a family business decision and a Kentucky deal more than anything else. Had nothing to do with Mike. Name the others from Arkansas that was offered by Mike and turned it down?

I actually do not hold it against Mike losing those 3 players from everything I've gathered from various sources with various levels of information.

Archie was actually not committed to Arkansas when Mike was hired. Archie committed at the beginning of the school year Mike's first season at Arkansas, but he might as well have already been committed.

hawganatic

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 03:11:34 pm
Possible, but Mike could have talked them into staying just like White talked Allen into staying. Once your signed with a school you have to go through a lot of trouble to be released from that scholarship. You see how Saban tried to do that one kid last year.

Could have or he did?  You're arguing for the man but won't even give him credit for keeping that class together.  And it isn't a lot of trouble to be released from the scholarship when the school agrees to he release. 

hawganatic

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 03:09:41 pm
I'm sure there's some truth to this but he's not going to finish near the top or win every race like so many want Mike to do. Hell, he's not even going to win every race he should win. Everybody has a bad day at the office from time to time and everybody has a good day from time to time.

Some of us need to STHU sit back and let the man finish this season.

We aren't talking about winning or finishing at the top.  We're talking about just making TO the race at this point.   Right now we are stuck in the lower tier races at the shady tracks that you don't go to by yourself.

Six years and one trip to the tournament is more than a bad day at the office.  You were talking about trending earlier.  That's a lot more telling trend than increasing the win total by a few every year.

Youngsta71701

Quote from: hawganatic on February 15, 2017, 03:13:35 pm
Could have or he did?  You're arguing for the man but won't even give him credit for keeping that class together.  And it isn't a lot of trouble to be released from the scholarship when the school agrees to he release.
I'm in those 2011 recruits minds. They might have wanted to stay even before he talked to them. Who knows? All I know is that they stayed.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: hawganatic on February 15, 2017, 03:17:30 pm
We aren't talking about winning or finishing at the top.  We're talking about just making TO the race at this point.   Right now we are stuck in the lower tier races at the shady tracks that you don't go to by yourself.

Six years and one trip to the tournament is more than a bad day at the office.  You were talking about trending earlier.  That's a lot more telling trend than increasing the win total by a few every year.
I'm talking about some of the bad losses this year. And we won more games last year than we should have won. Once again there someone goes talking about the past. Nothing you can do about the past it's over with. So many fail to admit that we won more games than the year before in 4 years straight. It's funny how that always fails to get mentioned.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

hawganatic

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 03:35:27 pm
I'm talking about some of the bad losses this year. And we won more games last year than we should have won. Once again there someone goes talking about the past. Nothing you can do about the past it's over with. So many fail to admit that we won more games than the year before in 4 years straight. It's funny how that always fails to get mentioned.

So you say we shouldn't talk about the past, and then you talk about....the past... Brilliant!!

Nobody has argued that we haven't increased our win total.  There isn't any "admitting" to it.  That's a fact.  The argument is whether that represents real improvement in the program or not.  From the results we are seeing this year, and the fact that we are sitting on the bubble hoping the dominoes fall right and we get into the tournament, it doesn't represent substantial improvement in the program.

If your only goal in life is to do marginally better than the year before, you are setting your bar too low and aren't going to achieve much.


Peter Porker

1 tournament in the last 6 years? We probably would have done that if we had kept Pelphrey. Think about that.
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

 

revolution

I'll give Mike credit for every win.  Didn't think they'd get it done against LSU.

With that said, Mike has to take the blame or responsibility for every loss.  And there have been plenty of stinkers, not just this year, but every year.

If he doesn't make the NCAA this year, he's got to go!

hogsanity

Quote from: hawganatic on February 15, 2017, 04:02:13 pm
So you say we shouldn't talk about the past, and then you talk about....the past... Brilliant!!

Nobody has argued that we haven't increased our win total.  There isn't any "admitting" to it.  That's a fact.  The argument is whether that represents real improvement in the program or not.  From the results we are seeing this year, and the fact that we are sitting on the bubble hoping the dominoes fall right and we get into the tournament, it doesn't represent substantial improvement in the program.

If your only goal in life is to do marginally better than the year before, you are setting your bar too low and aren't going to achieve much.



To me it is like when economist tout that such and such stock is up 50% in the last year, then fail to mention it is still down 30% from what it was 2 years ago.

The Hogs won 27 games in 14/15 then dropped to 16, so while they may end up with 23 or 24 this year, that is still below Mike's best season. So it is accurate to say they are up in wins this year, but it does not paint the total picture of his time here.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

porkinsons disease

Quote from: hogsanity on February 15, 2017, 04:34:25 pm
To me it is like when economist tout that such and such stock is up 50% in the last year, then fail to mention it is still down 30% from what it was 2 years ago.

The Hogs won 27 games in 14/15 then dropped to 16, so while they may end up with 23 or 24 this year, that is still below Mike's best season. So it is accurate to say they are up in wins this year, but it does not paint the total picture of his time here.
But,but,but, Mike won 16 games last year with a horrible roster that he was not responsible for. According to some, he should have been Coach of the Year...Always the victim
This hiding behind he has a great recruiting classcoming in crap is just another excuse for this man. you could give this man M. Johnson and Larry Bird togather and he still would not win. he is a pitiful coach who can,t coach a lick.-fcj 1/22/2011

hawganatic

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 02:57:07 pm

You think the Bulls would have won all those championships without Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen?
What about Cleveland without LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, and Kevin Love?
What about the Arkansas Razorbacks in 1994 without Corliss? How many have we won since then and how many did we win before?

And there you go raising the bar in one post to make a point, to turn around and lower it in another to make a different point. 

We aren't asking the team to win a championship right now.  Nobody expected that this year (at least nobody rationally expected it).  We're just asking to make it into the tournament consistently, and not have itself sitting on the bubble where we have to depend on the right sequence of events to get a bid. 

That's all we want.  It's really only the difference in a couple of games.  But it's a huge difference when it comes to getting a tourney bid.

Pork Twain

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 10:40:01 am
2011-12 Arkansas 18-14, 6-10
2012-13 Arkansas 19-13, 10-8
2013-14 Arkansas 22-12, 10-8
2014-15 Arkansas 27-9, 13-5
2015-16 Arkansas 16-16, 9-9
2016-17 Arkansas 18-7, 7-5, Season still in progress

Been trending up since he's been here with the exception of 2015-16 after Portis and Qualls left. I call that progress. You don't think the players we have now along with the next two classes that are coming in can duplicate the success of the 2014-15 team or maybe even do better? Don't forget we will have much more depth on these teams coming up than we ever did that year. We mainly depended on two players that year but we will be at least 10 deep the next couple of years. And most of those kids will be from Arkansas. No JUCO kids committed in the next two classes.

No losing seasons in the SEC since year one. Unlike the two previous coaches.
You might have just redefined trending up, because that is not what MA has been doing
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

Pork Twain

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 10:40:01 am
2011-12 Arkansas 18-14, 6-10
2012-13 Arkansas 19-13, 10-8
2013-14 Arkansas 22-12, 10-8
2014-15 Arkansas 27-9, 13-5
2015-16 Arkansas 16-16, 9-9
2016-17 Arkansas 18-7, 7-5, Season still in progress

Been trending up since he's been here with the exception of 2015-16 after Portis and Qualls left. I call that progress. You don't think the players we have now along with the next two classes that are coming in can duplicate the success of the 2014-15 team or maybe even do better? Don't forget we will have much more depth on these teams coming up than we ever did that year. We mainly depended on two players that year but we will be at least 10 deep the next couple of years. And most of those kids will be from Arkansas. No JUCO kids committed in the next two classes.

No losing seasons in the SEC since year one. Unlike the two previous coaches.
You might have just redefined trending up, because that is not what MA has been doing.

Also, two extra years in a sport that is significantly easier to turn around, is quite a big deal.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

Pork Twain

If the hogs played like this against crappy teams, I would have nothing to complain about
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

HamSammich

Done. He has a ten dollar credit in any of my stores.

yocdaddy

Classic case of why MA as our coach is so dang frustrating....we beat #21 South Carolina on the road, when nobody thought we could.  He probably saved his job with this win, but dang the roller coaster ride he is...

Hell, we might win out...or we might lose out.  Nobody knows what to expect with this team or program...
"More people would learn from their mistakes, if they weren't so busy denying them."  --Harold J. Smith

OhioHog

Quote from: Peter Porker on February 15, 2017, 04:11:23 pm
1 tournament in the last 6 years? We probably would have done that if we had kept Pelphrey. Think about that.
I doubt that very seriously.

Youngsta71701

Quote from: Pork Twain on February 15, 2017, 07:01:16 pm
If the hogs played like this against crappy teams, I would have nothing to complain about
Come on Pork. "Don't worry be happy" Smile... ;D. We still gotta lot of work to do but in the meantime you can take a deep breath then exhale and smile a little. Come on, I know you can do it... ;D. There you go.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

I got one question. Can he get a little bit of credit now? Still in wait and see mode? Or both?

For me it's both. I still give him credit like I always have but I'm still in wait and see mode because we still have to finish the season strong.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

BrooklynRoss

Quote from: 3kgthog on February 11, 2017, 09:59:34 pm
Credit for beating a team with one conference win?

Repeat after me: IT WON'T LAST

How can you call yourself a Hog fan and not want it to last?
I support the Razorbacks in the city that never sleeps.

Hawg Red

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 08:03:41 pm
I got one question. Can he get a little bit of credit now? Still in wait and see mode? Or both?

Definitely both. Helluva a win tonight. Can we keep it up is the question. Cannot follow this up with a loss to Ole Miss.

HiggiePiggy

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on February 15, 2017, 08:03:41 pm
I got one question. Can he get a little bit of credit now? Still in wait and see mode? Or both?

For me it's both. I still give him credit like I always have but I'm still in wait and see mode because we still have to finish the season strong.

This is how many feel.  A lot were expecting a NCAA tournament team this year. If he gets there then he will have met most people's expectations. Depending on who we play in the first round it could be a round of 32 team. 
If a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?

Hogsolo

I think it's REALLY silly to think Mike saved his job tonight.   He was not in any trouble of losing his job.   The best thing to happen for us is to have stability in the program.   Mike's success is vital to our success for the next five years.

Aside from team chemistry this year, Coach has done a good job.   I think Nolan was better at forging chemistry through his tough practices.   To me Mike is a better X and O's coach who doesn't get the credit he desreves.

I was at Boise when he had Missouri there in the NCAAT.   He coached his tail off and his team was the best at the venue that year.

Mike needs shooters, athletes, and an enforcer.   If this team develops the enforcer and the athletes play for rebounds and fight in the junk, we can make a little noise this year.

If we try to have three players think it's their team, we won't.   Nolan wouldn't have that happen, but Coach Anderson seems to let a team develop on their own more.

The fans like Nolan's way, but in truth CMA's way is probably best for the current generation of players.