Are you satisfied with Stan Heath?

[HawgAdvocate]

The fact that he doesn't drop ten dimes a game is no ones fault but his own.

He took several ill-advised shots last night on fast breaks that could have been dropped off to a big man when he penetrated.  If you take into account the bad shots by Ervin, along with the bad passes that were hard to handle, he had 10 turnovers by himself.  Honestly, I don't think he sees the floor the way a point guard does.  Don't get me wrong, I like Ervin, but he is not better than T.J. Cleveland, Jason Harrison (who we didn't need to recruit), either of the Flannigans, Charles Tatum, Eric Ferguson, etc.

The team is still searching for chemistry.  Stan wants them to run their offense through the post(s).  Doesn't matter if they score or not, he wants the defense to collapse on the post.  He feels that this breaks down the defense.  Against less athletic and talented teams, it does.  But against good defensive teams, our weakness on the block is exposed.  Hill is not an offensive threat, Townes is apathetic, and Hunter is weak.  The best post player we have? - Charles Thomas.

I will agree that not having 10 dimes a game is on Ervin. But the point I was making earlier when referring to proven NBA PGs is that they have plenty of games where they have 5,6, 7 TOs a game. Anyone who has the ball in their hands for the majority of possesions are going to be TO-hogs. Look at Kobe, look at Carmelo. It isn't just PGs.

You can't use ratio as a comparison though. Look at TOs/game. Our leading scorers are perimter players. If we had a guy down low to get 16/game, Ervin's numbers would be so much better.

[HogNuttz]

Kidd APG 9.2 TOPG 3 A/TO Ratio 3
Nash  APG 10.8 TOPG 3.58  A/TO Ratio 3
Ervin's A/TO Ratio was just above 1 before last nigh

You can't look at ratio because Ervin isn't dropping 10 dimes a game. He has no one inside to consistantly get the ball to. Look at TOs per game. How many college PGs are there with 10 dimes a game? How many SEC PGs are? The ratio is skewed.

You told me to look at NBA players and you named Kidd and Nash, don't change your arguement now.  And by the way, if we have no depth at the guard postions, and no one inside to get the ball to, what exactly do we have? A cluster is what we have.

[WILL CLINTON]

I don't think we would be.  What does that say about Stan?  

No.  Because by now he would probably have retired in a state of grace and Mike Anderson would be our coach. 

But even if not, Stan Heath is not half the coach that Nolan Richardson was.  

Nolan Richardson is arguably one of the top 5 college BBall coaches of ALL TIME.  Stan Heath needs to be an assistant on Mike Anderson's bench.  He isn't half the coach Anderson is.  It kills me to even have Stan Heath's name in the same paragraph as Nolan. 

[HawgAdvocate]

Did you not here Dykes point out the fact he turns the ball over too much for the amount of assists he has.  I did several times
Of course he does. He also nails fre throws, rebounds well, and before last night ,has shown a good jumper that had him shooting over 50% from three and saw him in double digits in scoring. He's got 10 more dimes then the 2nd best assist guy. He turns it over more than ya want, but like I've been saying, this team needs time to gel. That's why people are saying we're going to be good come January. He doesn't have to have a 4 or 5 assist/To ratio to be a good PG. A lot of times too though, the TOs aren't always his fault. When you have a backcourt full of new faces, it takes time for them to mesh.

From what I remember, Davis was told his scholarship would not be renewed.  If he did leave because he was not getting much PT, how does that support your earlier arguement that him leaving was somehow bad for us?
That was Wen Mukubu you're thinking of. He transfered to UAB after being told his schollie wasn't being renewed. Davis left to go home to North Texas to be a starter. His leaving forced the coaches to possibly alter their recruiting goals. I don't think we would have wasted a schollie, on what they thought was immediate help, in Dontell Jefferson if they knew Davis was gonns stay. We all know how he was added very late and bombed very badly.

What have we done to exceed expectations?  I think we were favored to win all of our games thus far, including the Old Spice tourney and Mizzou.
We weren't favored to win the Old Spice Tourney. I beleive Southern Illinois was.

[kitshicker]

I'm not satisfied with our showing last night...........that said, I'll reserve judgement for him later on in the season.

[HawgAdvocate]

You told me to look at NBA players and you named Kidd and Nash, don't change your arguement now.  And by the way, if we have no depth at the guard postions, and no one inside to get the ball to, what exactly do we have? A cluster is what we have.

I'm not changing my argument. I told you that the guys who have the ball in their hands the majority of the time have lots of TOs too. I didn't ask for an assist to TO ratio. Who has the most TOs?
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Turnovers.jsp?league=00&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=All%20Teams

1. Carmelo Anthony 4.5/game
2. Dwany Wade      4.3
3. Allen Iverson      4.2
4. Ming yao           3.8
5. Gilbert Arenas     3.7
6. Paul Pierce         3.6
7. Tim Duncan        3.6
8. Lamar Odom       3.6
9. Steve Nash        3.6
10.Dwight Howard   3.6

Anything stand out about these guys? They all hold the rock in their hands more than anyone else on their teams. The offenses run through them. Just like Ervin.

We don't have to have depth to be efficient. We just need the players we have to play like they did in the previous 5 games. I can live with a ratio of 5 impressive wins to one unimpressive loss.

[HawgAdvocate]

Kudos to fourthcrusade to bring this up..but even after last night's loss "we still have the #7 RPI and #19 SOS in the nation.  those numbers matter for seeding. guess we DID beat some good teams!"

That should tell you something.

[dish13-hog]

I'm not satisfied either with our "performance" (if you can call it that) last night.  I do feel like however we've been a better team each year he's been here.  We should give him a chance this season and see how it plays out before we pass judgement.  We have to do better than the 1st rd of the NCAAs or he should be done.  Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't being realistic.   

PS: I watched part of that OSU vs. UNC game on Wednesday night and we are nowhere near those teams.  They would both drop 125 on our tails.

[DeltaBoy]

NO

[HogNuttz]

Of course he does. He also nails fre throws, rebounds well, and before last night ,has shown a good jumper that had him shooting over 50% from three and saw him in double digits in scoring. He's got 10 more dimes then the 2nd best assist guy. He turns it over more than ya want, but like I've been saying, this team needs time to gel. That's why people are saying we're going to be good come January. He doesn't have to have a 4 or 5 assist/To ratio to be a good PG. A lot of times too though, the TOs aren't always his fault. When you have a backcourt full of new faces, it takes time for them to mesh.
I'm glad he can do those other things, but my point is we need a ball handler at PG more than a scorer.  I like his rebounding ability regardless, but the impact of good free throwing shooting and FG % would be minimized if he was doing what this team needs a PG to do.  Don't get me wrong, I like good shooting percentage, but this team has plenty of people to score and we don't need a scoring threat at PG, we need a ball handler.


That was Wen Mukubu you're thinking of. He transfered to UAB after being told his schollie wasn't being renewed. Davis left to go home to North Texas to be a starter. His leaving forced the coaches to possibly alter their recruiting goals. I don't think we would have wasted a schollie, on what they thought was immediate help, in Dontell Jefferson if they knew Davis was gonns stay. We all know how he was added very late and bombed very badly.
You could be right on that, but either way I don't view losing Davis as a major setback or close to it.

We weren't favored to win the Old Spice Tourney. I beleive Southern Illinois was.
I don't have access to historic Vegas odds, but I wouldn't think us beating S. Illinois was considered exceeding expectations, at least not by any margin that is noteworthy.


You opened the argument of NBA players, specifically Nash and Kidd.  I'm not simply going to look at their TO's and nothing else.  When you scout a team and prepare for them, you don't look at just one aspect of their game unless you are Stan Heath preparing for Missouri.  When you are looking for stocks to buy, you don't look at just one of the hundreds of indicators, you look at a bunch.  When you are cooking, you don't use one ingredient from a recipe, you use them all.  Why do you think the Kidd's and Nash's of the NBA turn the ball over?  Maybe because they are doing what point guards are supposed to do,  RUN THE OFFENSE AND MAKE ASSISTS.  You can't compare two players, namly Ervin and Nash/Kidd and look at strictly turnovers and think you are getting a fair compairson.  Not to mention, Kidd and Nash are averging 17% more minutes but Ervin is turning the ball over 33% more than they are.  Is that a better compairison?

[diamondp]

In year 1 Mike Anderson made year 5 coach Stan Heath look like a fool.  We weren't even competetive in this game.  This isn't the first time we've seen Heath lose to a less talented team on the road.

Somebody needs to call MA and let him know that it takse 4-5 years to get his system in place and the right players to fit his system.  What is SH's system anyway???

He has no system that i know of.

[Rasta Hogmon]

He has his players, he has everything he is asked for and we are just the same old bubble team. We were run out of the gym last night by a team that had less talent on the court than us, but were better coached.

The solution is to fire Houston and let Gus coach the basketball team and they can run the HUNH

[HogNuttz]

He has his players, he has everything he is asked for and we are just the same old bubble team. We were run out of the gym last night by a team that had less talent on the court than us, but were better coached.

The solution is to fire Houston and let Gus coach the basketball team and they can run the HUNH

At least he could teach the hurry up part and get it right.

[Temprees]

YES.  Nolan stopped recruiting.  He did not have much left when Stan got here.

Not completely true.  Nolan had landed Iguodala (76ers), Mukubu (thrived at UAB in Nolan's style of play), Tobias (solid contributor at UAB), and the aggressive rebounder who punched Townes.   Then there was the lefty, who transferred to Ohio State and started two years.  

I agree that recruiting hit a lull, but it was not all Nolan.  Frank's self-imposed recruiting restrictions on junior college players, and the NCAA allegations also affected recruiting.  Much like the NCAA investigation affecting football recruiting according to Nutt and Frank.   Recruiting was picking up, and 40 minutes of hell was about to return.

[Coacht]

Just In! HDN paid Heath an undisclosed amount of money to look bad so this would take the heat off of himself. Its working!

[petro pig]

Rick, is that you?

In year 1 Mike Anderson made year 5 coach Stan Heath look like a fool.  We weren't even competetive in this game.  This isn't the first time we've seen Heath lose to a less talented team on the road.

Would we have lost like this last year? No, we wouldn't. We had experienced guards last year. Before last night we'd beaten Mizzou for 7 years strait. Streaks dont go on forever.

[Verge]

can't keep up with the pace ?





if they would have played zone.... we would have lost by 30.




are we watching the same team ?

[HawgAdvocate]

We weren't favored to win the Old Spice Tourney. I beleive Southern Illinois was.
I don't have access to historic Vegas odds, but I wouldn't think us beating S. Illinois was considered exceeding expectations, at least not by any margin that is noteworthy.


You opened the argument of NBA players, specifically Nash and Kidd.  I'm not simply going to look at their TO's and nothing else.  When you scout a team and prepare for them, you don't look at just one aspect of their game unless you are Stan Heath preparing for Missouri.  When you are looking for stocks to buy, you don't look at just one of the hundreds of indicators, you look at a bunch.  When you are cooking, you don't use one ingredient from a recipe, you use them all.  Why do you think the Kidd's and Nash's of the NBA turn the ball over?  Maybe because they are doing what point guards are supposed to do,  RUN THE OFFENSE AND MAKE ASSISTS.  You can't compare two players, namly Ervin and Nash/Kidd and look at strictly turnovers and think you are getting a fair compairson.  Not to mention, Kidd and Nash are averging 17% more minutes but Ervin is turning the ball over 33% more than they are.  Is that a better compairison?

Have you not paid attention to Southern Illinois over the past few years? They're right behind Gonzaga in this recent push being made by mid-majors into the national limelight. They had all 5 starters back plus they're top 3 reserves from last year's NCAA tourney. They're not loaded with All-Americans, but they play team ball that has translated to national recognition.

They've held 13 strait opponents under 65 points. Last year they ranked 4th in the NCAA is points allowed/game. They're 68-3 at home since 2001. They're right with us in the receiving votes catgeory in both AP and coach's polls this year. They might not be elite like Florida or Ohio St., but they're damn good.

And when I was spkeaing of Ervin, I said even the NBA's best PG like Nash and Kidd have a lot of TOs. The players who have the ball in their hands are the ones who are going to rack up the TOs...my stats I linked back that up. That being said, Ervin is nowhere near Nash or Kidd. That's obvious. But you are pointing out one bad stat and saying he's not a good PG. He's better than what we had last year. He's the best we have this year. He's better than every PG in the SEC west outside Ronald Steele.

You don't have to have a bunch of assists to be a good PG. It's nice, but it isn't written in stone. If you run the offense, and your best offensive players are on the perimeter with you, how can you expect to rack up 6+ dimes a game? Whenever the balls goes to the inside guys, they get doubled. They either pass out or turn it over. How is that Gary's fault?

[Winner]

I love Heath.  I think he can be a "special" coach because he can recruit.  And if he has some success, he should really be able to recruit.  However, if he doesn't make the NCAAs this year, he should be fired.  No excuses.  That said, I think this team will be better than last years version. 

[canadianrazorback]

Was it just me, or were you confused on who to cheer for.  Now don't get me wrong, I'm a huge hog fan, but I was proud of Coach A last night.  He was screwed over by Coach Broyles, and looked what happened last night.  Mizzu kicked us all up and down the court for 40 minutes.  Look what Coach A did at UAB, and now he's hot at Mizzu.  We'd be at the top of the SEC of Coach A for the lead hog.

[cmakrzrbak]

No, but we'd be alot better if Mike A. was at the helm.  It troubles me dearly, but I just couldn't get mad watching them clobber us last night.  It was Hog ball, through and through.  I'm glad Mike got a jab back in at the University that wouldn't give him a chance.  And, before you go throwing rocks at me, I've held this belief since before Anderson nailed his interview, and still got the boot.

[cmakrzrbak]

I was proud as well.  I just wish Stan was at Mizzou and Mike A. was here, where he belongs.

[hogmary]

I was not confused.  I knew Arkansas had no chance so I decided to cheer for my friend, Mike, and thoroughly enjoyed the game.  Sometimes, it did look strange seeing the wrong uniform doing all the things I like to see in a game.  Felt sorry for some of our guys, but I was for Missouri all the way.  I will pull for Arkansas in every other game except when they play against Mike Anderson's team.
Great job, Mike.

[mountainhog]

Unless we have a complete fall out , I will be on the stan van till the end of this year.

I still think we can be better than last years team if our guards can settle down and ervin plays like the  10 year junior he is.

ervin has turnover problems, he had them before he left state. Looks like he still has them.  I just hope he can settle down and do more good for us than bad.

[spudhog]

tough call. pissed we looked like crap but very proud mike had his team looking so well so early. wish it was a close loss but if this is a sign of things to come, i won't like it. if it was a glich, i'll take it.

[Anon2]

Looks like old Mike proved last night who was doing the coaching when he and Nolan were at Arkansas, or maybe he was a good learner.  I hate to hear how we've played 4 games in a week.  Our last game was Sunday.  Is not 4 days enough rest?

[HogNuttz]

Have you not paid attention to Southern Illinois over the past few years? They're right behind Gonzaga in this recent push being made by mid-majors into the national limelight. They had all 5 starters back plus they're top 3 reserves from last year's NCAA tourney. They're not loaded with All-Americans, but they play team ball that has translated to national recognition.
They've held 13 strait opponents under 65 points. Last year they ranked 4th in the NCAA is points allowed/game. They're 68-3 at home since 2001. They're right with us in the receiving votes catgeory in both AP and coach's polls this year. They might not be elite like Florida or Ohio St., but they're damn good.
Yes I'm familiar with them, but I think we are, currently, on the same level as them.  That is why I don't view beating them as exceeding expectations.


And when I was spkeaing of Ervin, I said even the NBA's best PG like Nash and Kidd have a lot of TOs. The players who have the ball in their hands are the ones who are going to rack up the TOs...my stats I linked back that up.
The only stat you are refering to is TO's and that is not a good comparison.  How about TO's per assist, or TO's per minute.  You can't look at just TO's.

That being said, Ervin is nowhere near Nash or Kidd. That's obvious. But you are pointing out one bad stat and saying he's not a good PG. He's better than what we had last year. He's the best we have this year. He's better than every PG in the SEC west outside Ronald Steele.
I'm pointing out more than one stat, I'm pointing out TO's and assists, which is what most people measure a PG by.  You are pointing out one stat and that is TO's/game.  How about he is not a good PG because he turns the ball over a little too much, he doesn't get enough assists, he doesn't set up the offense very well, and so far he has handled pressure about 50/50.  Big men should handle pressure 50/50 point guards should be better.

You don't have to have a bunch of assists to be a good PG. It's nice, but it isn't written in stone. If you run the offense, and your best offensive players are on the perimeter with you, how can you expect to rack up 6+ dimes a game? Whenever the balls goes to the inside guys, they get doubled. They either pass out or turn it over. How is that Gary's fault?
I know you don't need a bunch of assists to be a good PG, but a PG that is not getting a bunch of assists, should likewise not be getting a bunch of turnovers.  That means he is either making bad passes or just getting his pocket picked, both of which are some of the worst qualities you can find in a PG. If our best offensive players are on the perimeter, this just further enforces the two sentences prior to this one.  I'm not holding the turnovers from the inside guys against Gary, I'm holding Gary's turnovers against Gary.  Our whole team does not look well coached or seem to have a good strategy.  I'm not trying to knock on just Gary.

[canadianrazorback]

I know it's hard, but let's forget for a moment what Nolan said and look at the system.  Wait just look at last night.  We'd be a lot better.

[kneedabreak]

We didn't match up well with Missouri's frantic pace. You all knew before last night that Missouri would want this more than we would. It also doesn't hurt to point out that this was our 4th game in a week.

We don't have quality experience at guard. Ervin let us down by not slowing the pace and running a half-court offense. We only have so many time outs we can call and reset the plan. Heath can't go on the floor and take control of the game himself, posession by posession.

One game doesn't make or break a season. No matter what the sport. It's simply amazing how so many can jump on and off the bandwagon in a matter of hours.

Shame on you. I honestly dont think many of you played sports growing up. Losing is part of the game. Our guards are young and have less than a year of chemistry working together. We played damn well against three totally different styles in 3 days last week. Give it some time. Everyone has predicted us to look good by SEC season. You can't start calling for Heath's head when he's replaced his top 3 guards this quickly and exceeded expectations so early in the season.

Some of these posts I've read over the past 12 hours have made my jaw drop.

Shame on who?  Go back and watch the game again  and just watch the 2 coaches work.  It is not just MA.  Heath never looks like he has control of his team.  Other coaches call time out and you can tell that they are in control.  Heath just looks around, lost.  Most of the players blow off HEath and go to one of the assistants.  You can tell Hipster or whatever his name is hates being on this staff.  I could live with alot of this, but last year when Ferguson got a DWI before the season, I never saw any kind of punishment, except that he didn't get to start for one game. 

This team has great talent, but look lost, and have no identity.

[Inigo Montoya]

OMG, 60 satisfied customers??  WTH!!!

[razorson]

 our Quinn Snyder.After what happened last night S.H. should take the lead of the Minnesota FB coach and resign.We should've been more prepared to handle the pressure, afterall I'm sure we have plenty of film on how the 40 minutes of hell is run.M.A. took a team who's only been practicing his system a couble months and beat us with it as though they've been doing it for years and it could of been worse.Stan should've gotten fed up with how the refs were letting them maul us and gotten in their faces for a technical instead of standing with his arms folded looking disgusted.We have the players to be a contender but not the coach.It was proven at the Bucknell game and last night.

[OneLardAlmighty]

I know people think that Nolan stopped recruiting, but he did have some Talent coming in before he got fired. JJ Sullinger transferred after Nolan was let go. I thought he was a decent player. He had Andre Igodoula coming in, but he opted to go to Arizona after the firing. Please remember that Jonathan Modica was Nolan's recruit. But he wanted to be a razorback so bad that he decided to come anyway. And I think Heath messed up his Jr year by giving Olu Famatimi more minutes.  Also, Joe Johnson leaving after his sophmore year didnt help matters. Rumors were that his grades just werent good enough to help influence the decision. I dont know how true it is, but thats what I heard.  Could anyone imagine how incredible Ronnie Brewer would have been if he had been in Nolan's style. Brewer was good anyway, but he would have really been awesome. 

Last but not least, those violations that never came out to be true. He was hurt by those as well. But I give Nolan a lot of credit. At least he didnt ask for a two year pass like Nutt did. Maybe he should have asked for one.

I think Nolan did recieve about a 5-6 year pass from like '96 to '02.  And Igoudala?  He played 1-2 seasons at Arizona and hooked it up to the NBA, he wouldn't have been a force for very long.

If Nolan stayed, we never would have gotten Ronnie Brewer......I'd rather had had Brewer for 3 years than Igoudala for two seasons.

Why?  What did we ultimately get out of three seasons of Brewer?  One first round loss to Bucknell in Dallas.  I would've rather had James Rocket Crockett if it meant being a half-way decent NCAA tournament team. 

Bottom line:  if Nolan had not been fired when he was, do you really think that all we would've had from that time to this is one stinking first round NCAAT loss to Bucknell?  Whether he was still our coach now, or whether he stepped aside of his own volition to make room for Anderson, I'm pretty sure that life would've been and would be better than that.

[petro pig]

Oh boy, our RPI is high...    Do you think that we will be able to recruit better? 

I mean we can say, Man we haven't been to the sweet 16 for ever, we have not been to the final 8 or 4 in this decade.  We have not won our Conference Championship in forever, we have won 1 SEC Tourn. Championship in the last 10 years. 

Hahahaha.  That's classic.

BUT our RPI is in the top 10. 

Yep, that will probably work, don't ya think...... 

Thanks for the info.  Nice find.

[HogNuttz]

We didn't match up well with Missouri's frantic pace. You all knew before last night that Missouri would want this more than we would. It also doesn't hurt to point out that this was our 4th game in a week.

We don't have quality experience at guard. Ervin let us down by not slowing the pace and running a half-court offense. We only have so many time outs we can call and reset the plan. Heath can't go on the floor and take control of the game himself, posession by posession.

One game doesn't make or break a season. No matter what the sport. It's simply amazing how so many can jump on and off the bandwagon in a matter of hours.

Shame on you. I honestly dont think many of you played sports growing up. Losing is part of the game. Our guards are young and have less than a year of chemistry working together. We played damn well against three totally different styles in 3 days last week. Give it some time. Everyone has predicted us to look good by SEC season. You can't start calling for Heath's head when he's replaced his top 3 guards this quickly and exceeded expectations so early in the season.

Some of these posts I've read over the past 12 hours have made my jaw drop.

Shame on who?  Go back and watch the game again  and just watch the 2 coaches work.  It is not just MA.  Heath never looks like he has control of his team.  Other coaches call time out and you can tell that they are in control.  Heath just looks around, lost.  Most of the players blow off HEath and go to one of the assistants.  You can tell Hipster or whatever his name is hates being on this staff.  I could live with alot of this, but last year when Ferguson got a DWI before the season, I never saw any kind of punishment, except that he didn't get to start for one game. 

This team has great talent, but look lost, and have no identity.

Any chance we can get Mark Few from Gonzaga after the season.  Mike Anderson has had some decent things to say about Arkansas the last few days, can we please have him back?

40 minutes of Hell-
Fun to watch
Other teams hate it
Other teams know your game plan to a T, but more times than not they still can't effectively prepare for it.

The Stan Plan
......what is the plan?

[PAHOGFAN]

I will be satisfied till this team shows me that they can not get it done through about half the SEC play.  This team will come together.  CT said after the game the other night in Otown that they are Finally starting to play as a team.  I did not see the game, but if these guys buy into team ball we will be tough to stop.  If they fall apert after this type loss and SH can't get them back then he needs to go.

There is way too much talent and experience on our bench to think this will happen every night.  It was a one time deal.  If it happens again my opinion will change!

[HogNuttz]

where is the choice "No just no, but hell No!"

Dang, you stole my post.

[HogNuttz]

Yes, we're very satisfied with Stan Heath's job performance.
                                                                   Sincerely,
                                                                   The rest of the SEC

How about this?

Yes, I'm very satisfied with Stan Heath's job performance.
                                                                    Sincerely,
                                                                    Nolan Richardson

[bigred7987]

Shows what you know...Minnesota BASKETBALL coach. 
Also shows what you know when he took his team to the elite 8

[HawgAdvocate]

Yes I'm familiar with them, but I think we are, currently, on the same level as them.  That is why I don't view beating them as exceeding expectations.
How can we be expected to be on the same level as them when we lost our top 2 scorers and our top 4 guards? Maybe by January you could expect that, but not this early against a NCAA toruney team returning it's top 8 players. That's why they were favored.

The only stat you are refering to is TO's and that is not a good comparison.  How about TO's per assist, or TO's per minute.  You can't look at just TO's.
The ONLY stat we were ever talking about in regards to Ervin was TOs. Ervin plays 30+ minutes a game. He is the leader of this team. The offense goes through him. You guys are talkin about how many TOs he has, and you're wanting to talk about TOs per minute? Are you kidding me?

I'm pointing out more than one stat, I'm pointing out TO's and assists, which is what most people measure a PG by.  You are pointing out one stat and that is TO's/game.  How about he is not a good PG because he turns the ball over a little too much, he doesn't get enough assists, he doesn't set up the offense very well, and so far he has handled pressure about 50/50.  Big men should handle pressure 50/50 point guards should be better.
No one here was talking about his assist to turnover ratio before you linked your stats. I never brought it up. The fact still stands that he won't have many assists when our best scorers are on the perimeter and the inside offense continues to get doubled. Why do you think Beverley, Ervin, and Weems have been hitting so many threes? You are continuing to ignore the fact that Ervin has handled the pressure very well outside last night. Last night is not the median. Southern Illinois pressured us like mad all game, and guess who won that game? Ervin had 5 dimes and 7 tos...but he also had 12 points, 9 boards, and a steal. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You're wanting Ronald Steele and I'm sorry to tell you that he plays for Bama.

I know you don't need a bunch of assists to be a good PG, but a PG that is not getting a bunch of assists, should likewise not be getting a bunch of turnovers.  That means he is either making bad passes or just getting his pocket picked, both of which are some of the worst qualities you can find in a PG. If our best offensive players are on the perimeter, this just further enforces the two sentences prior to this one.  I'm not holding the turnovers from the inside guys against Gary, I'm holding Gary's turnovers against Gary.  Our whole team does not look well coached or seem to have a good strategy.  I'm not trying to knock on just Gary.
If the team didn't have a good strategy, how could our RPI and SoS be so high? How could we have won 3 games in 3 days against 3 well coached teams? Let m say this in another way. With our inside guys not producing offensively, the perimeter guys are doing the load of the work. If Beverley or Weems were running the offense 95% of the time, they too would get the majority of TOs. They just started playing together a little more than 4 months ago.

Maybe the TO is higher than you'd like. Ok, that's fine. If you need something to be upset about, then by all means there ya go. But guess what. We're a much better free throw shooting team (Gary is a huge part of that), we're shooting threes at a great % (Gary is part of that, shooting and dishing), our rebounding is much improved (Gary has been outstanding at that) and our defense has been getting a lot of praise (Gary is a huge part of that).

So if having Gary run point translates in vast improvement in boards, defensive intensity, FT%, shooting %, 3-point%, then I think I can live with 2 or 3 extra TOs a game.

[RealHogFan]

our Quinn Snyder.After what happened last night S.H. should take the lead of the Minnesota FB coach and resign.We should've been more prepared to handle the pressure, afterall I'm sure we have plenty of film on how the 40 minutes of hell is run.M.A. took a team who's only been practicing his system a couble months and beat us with it as though they've been doing it for years and it could of been worse.Stan should've gotten fed up with how the refs were letting them maul us and gotten in their faces for a technical instead of standing with his arms folded looking disgusted.We have the players to be a contender but not the coach.It was proven at the Bucknell game and last night.

The sky isn't falling after one loss, albeit a poor one.  It was to me a valuable lesson for the team.

[Biggus Piggus]

Poor Hunter didn't know what to do when he caught the inbounds pass.  It is amazing to me that we were not ready to break a press.  What did Stan think they were going to do?  Our ballhandling is attrocious!

We ran a great press break at times.  We lost it mentally, forgot our preparation, got too frantic.  And had to substitute, ended up with a player rotation that didn't work.  The system makes you sub more frequently than normal, makes you use sets of 5 who aren't used to playing together.  That's a much easier thing to defend against.

Some of you guys (not you ArkansasI) act as though this is same ol' Nolan.  Mike has improved the system quite a bit.  This was a 66-possession game, fellers.  It was at an average tempo.  They beat us with halfcourt defense, forced gobs of turnovers and bad shots, rebounded well enough, made their easy shots and hit a great % from outside.  Our perimeter defense is what failed us most in this game.  The turnovers, we were lucky to have only 24.  At one point we were on a pace for 36.

MA realized a while back that he can throttle the turnover machine up and down, and it makes the system much more effective.  Use the pressure to create a scoring spurt and a big lead.  Throttle down, defend and rebound, maintain the lead.  Wait for the opponent to wear down, then send in the hounds to pick off the stragglers.  Mike's a lot smarter coach than people at Arkansas assumed.

It was amusing to watch Stan get schooled, but frustrating too.  There I was, watching the game I'd wanted to see for years.  I was a Nolan fan and an Anderson fan, very disappointed with the transition and the Heath hire, and I wanted to see this matchup for a long time.  Because I knew MA would eat Heath alive and have his children for seconds.  Absolutely no doubt in the world.  Heath thinks he's so smart.  Broyles thought Heath was so much slicker than Nolan and MA.  Much more marketable.  But this was an absolute certainty, that MA would clean Heath's clock.

I took absolutely no pleasure in watching this crapola, though.  When it comes down to it I am a Razorback fan, and it sucked watching this mess.  We looked incompetent and talentless.

This kind of game can be a great catalyst for change, to push Heath into doing things to make the team work that go against his best case scenario.  Number one, Patrick Beverley has to become the point guard.  He has to run the team.  It won't be easy at first, but by far he is best equipped to do so.  He can be a Ron Steele type floor leader, who catalyzes the offense and is a big scoring threat at the same time.  Number two, Sonny Weems needs to spend a lot of time as the two guard.  Number three, Charles Thomas needs to be used as a swing forward where he can get the best matchups on offense.  He has great upside.  Then get Townes and Hill on the floor at the same time, so they can compensate for one another's shortcomings.

Let Ervin be a good substitute who gets to play in selected situations.  He'll be a lot better coming off the bench when opponents won't be able to target him as easily.  Vince Hunter is a wing player not an inside player; use him as such.  Welsh will be fine with experience.

Some problems are not as easy to solve.  Bench depth for the four and five is hard to come by.  McGowan has a chronic knee problem and probably needs to have surgery and sit, but Heath knows he has a depth problem.  Mike Washington got rusty and may not come around for a while.  Hunter is being used as a sub at the four, but he shouldn't be.  The natural tilt is to rotate Hill and Townes at the five for depth reasons, but I think the team's better when both are out there.

Outside shooting is going to be sporadic, because Ervin isn't a shooter, Weems isn't a pure shooter, McCurdy doesn't/can't play enough to get comfortable, and the other guys are young.  I think they need to solve the problem of how to maximize the size advantage, and that requires fixing the point.  Ervin is not a point guard any more than Arlyn Bowers was.

[Dr. Kenneth Noisewater]

Teams have bad games, hell Oral Roberts beat Kansas.

Im not completely satisfied, im just not a big fan of that Tom Izzo/Big 10 basketball but i like this team better than i did last years team.  Ill just wait and see out it plays out. I think they can still be a good team.

Our point guards just need to get a clue. How many times did they just dribble it off their foot or basically hand it to Mizzou last night. Its one thing to create turnovers because of the 40 mins of Hell but Mizzou could have been in a zone Irvin and McCurdy would have still handed it to them.

And how did McCurdy fool anyone into giving him a scholarship. You would think he would realize dribbing to the corner and picking up his dribble isnt a good decision.

Ok im done on to the next game.

[Squealers]

I have an idea. 

Everyone post your current job position, your supervisors name, and then allow us to begin evaluating you on this board during each and every task that you perform throughout the year.

We will post polls on your "fireablilty", "job performance" and "suckability".  Others get to vote on whether they think you should stay, go or just get beat up in the posts for doing the stupid things you occasionally do throughout your work week.

Anyone up for that?   Hmmmmmmmm.

Stan is 5-1, and we are improving.  I could take a group of players and teach them how to double team and pressure in about 1 week.    Will it equate to a successful season playing that style?  Maybe, but historically it does not.

We did not win the 94 National Championship with that style of play.   

We played a team last night that was HOT.  Their shooting percentage in regards to 3 pointers was almost double their normal performance.

Sometimes you have to look at the world from a holistic approach, and quit throwing the baby out with the bath water over 1 loss.

I am so glad I dont work for you guys.  My tenure would be measured in minutes.  Grab a mirror, take time for a reality check.

[Biggus Piggus]

Checkmate.

[aristotle]

our Quinn Snyder.After what happened last night S.H. should take the lead of the Minnesota FB coach and resign.We should've been more prepared to handle the pressure, afterall I'm sure we have plenty of film on how the 40 minutes of hell is run.M.A. took a team who's only been practicing his system a couble months and beat us with it as though they've been doing it for years and it could of been worse.Stan should've gotten fed up with how the refs were letting them maul us and gotten in their faces for a technical instead of standing with his arms folded looking disgusted.We have the players to be a contender but not the coach.It was proven at the Bucknell game and last night.

The sky isn't falling after one loss, albeit a poor one.  It was to me a valuable lesson for the team.

Agree 100%. Let's just hope they learn well from it. Stan is ok. Our guards are all young except Irvin and he's coming off a year's break. This team has the potential to be good.

[dhornjr1]

I believe we all had a powerful demonstration last night of where our program is. Mike Anderson took a bunch of retreads from the Quin Snyder failure and in his first month at his new school soundly thrashed Stan Heath and his fifth-year team.

Mike calls it "40 Minutes Part II" and it looked eerily familiar, did it not? Full court pressure defense, 3-point shots raining down from all over the court, the crowd on their feet in delirium for the entire game.....apparently, 40 minutes of hell still has a place in college basketball.

Please remember, Nolan Richardson dominated the SWC in his fifth year to the tune of a 13-3 conference record, swept through the SWC Tournament, and streaked to the Final Four before anyone believed the team was ready to make that type of run. The pressure defense on that team was feared from Memphis to Missoula.

Let's hope Stan Heath can have an epihapany as a result of the utter destruction his team endured at the hands of Mike Anderson and 40 minutes of hell.

[sportscrazy]

Keep in mind a few things from last night.  Our players just back from a draining 5 days in Orlando probably very early Monday morning.  Practice Monday, Tuesday and fly out to Missouri Wednesday.  Play last night against a fresh team.  This was a scheduling debacle as much as a bad game.  I remember the '94-95 hawgs got beat at Ole Miss, who was bad just after they got back late a few nights before from a tournament in Hawaii.  We should have scheduled Missouri next week maybe Tuesday after we got our feet back under us.  Fatigue is a more of a factor early in the season than it is late.  And when your playing tired which a lot of our players looked last night then the rest of your game looks bad.  You try to force things and do too much.  Does this sound like how we played last night.  It is.  I am not making excuses but it is early and we should have never scheduled this right  after that tournament.  That was a mistake.

[fourthcrusade]

Bless you, squealers

[BPPig]

I have to admit I am starting to lose respect for some of the folks on this board. If I was the coach, and I had to lose a game, that is a great way to do it. He has plenty to work with as far as coaching is concerned. One bad game and all the naysayers are out in full force. I hope Stan can make it here because I am starting to understand why so many coaches don't even want to interview for the big jobs here. We have a young team with no seniors, three quality wins and one poor loss and many want to fire the coach. I hope all y'all work for bosses just like you are.

[sportscrazy]

The game last night was as much of a scheduling debacle as it was a bad played game.  You don't schedule a tough opponent on the road right after a big tournament this early.  It gives the other team 2 major advantages before you even start playing.  It is different in the later part of the season you are in shape for it and everyone is traveling and most of the games are played at a neutral site.  I am not making excuses but I would like to play Missouri again at the end of the season since we can't play them in December when we are fresh.  We have more talent than they do.  However when your playing fatigued you tend to force things and try too hard.  Mike Anderson is a good coach but his team is not better than we are.  Both teams fresh and at a neutral site we win by 10 to 15 points.