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ESPN is liking our class.

Started by COCHISE, January 29, 2015, 02:09:43 pm

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COCHISE


Break & Run

I just don't know how Raleigh Williams is their #94 RB. Goodness...
Quote from: Michael BernalWhat's your favorite Arkansas tradition?
"I can't be cliché and say 'Call the Hogs,' but I think I have to.  That's just something that sets our university apart.  When you're out on the field and everyone in the stadium stands up, it's amazing.  Even when we're at a football or basketball game, just to see that many people around you doing the same thing for you when you're on the field or for the other guys who are playing, it's pretty awesome."

 

Wildhog

Quote from: Break & Run on January 29, 2015, 02:34:13 pm
I just don't know how Raleigh Williams is their #94 RB. Goodness...

You think he should ranked better?  Or worse?
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

MB Hog

Quote from: Break & Run on January 29, 2015, 02:34:13 pm
I just don't know how Raleigh Williams is their #94 RB. Goodness...
Maybe it has to do with level of competition.  Not sure what kind of teams he plays against, but his numbers were always so incredible that I assumed he was in a lower classification.

MB Hog

AugustaHog

RWIII was in a lower division, but he faced some solid private schools in Texas and some upper division teams and dusted them all.  There were some big schools that he rolled up well over 200 yds on.  He's going to be a beast. 

TM Hog

Well, I guess 21st is good. But not excited as that won't get it done in the SEC. At least not as an elite team.

Wildhog

Quote from: TM Hog on January 29, 2015, 02:46:03 pm
Well, I guess 21st is good. But not excited as that won't get it done in the SEC. At least not as an elite team.

Well, this is the best class we've had in a long time, so I'm not sure what to tell you.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

PaintballHog

Quote from: TM Hog on January 29, 2015, 02:46:03 pm
Well, I guess 21st is good. But not excited as that won't get it done in the SEC. At least not as an elite team.

We were arguably an elite team down the stretch last year...and now we're adding our best class since joining the SEC...

opineonswine

Quote from: TM Hog on January 29, 2015, 02:46:03 pm
Well, I guess 21st is good. But not excited as that won't get it done in the SEC. At least not as an elite team.

Not that much difference until you get to the very top.  A&M is 9th and their avg player rating is 3.35.  We are 21st and our avg player rating is also 3.35 (On Rivals...not sure about ESPN).  We are up there and in good company.

Dropkick

Quote from: TM Hog on January 29, 2015, 02:46:03 pm
Well, I guess 21st is good. But not excited as that won't get it done in the SEC. At least not as an elite team.
Yeah, we won't be able to compete with team with classes like Alabama, LSU, Texas............oh wait?

duckman

What I can't figure out is how on a certain site we have an identical star rating as A&M yet they are ranked 9th and we are 21st.  I just don't buy into the top 25 style rankings that much.  If you look at which schools have offered each recruit I think you get a better idea of how you are doing.

ricepig

Quote from: duckman on January 29, 2015, 03:01:45 pm
What I can't figure out is how on a certain site we have an identical star rating as A&M yet they are ranked 9th and we are 21st.  I just don't buy into the top 25 style rankings that much.  If you look at which schools have offered each recruit I think you get a better idea of how you are doing.

It's due to the bonus points you get for getting guys in their top 100/250 etc. It's a crock, a 3.35=3.35, lol.

hawginbigd1

Quote from: Dropkick on January 29, 2015, 02:51:09 pm
Yeah, we won't be able to compete with team with classes like Alabama, LSU, Texas............oh wait?

+1 Priceless

 

redeye

Quote from: ricepig on January 29, 2015, 03:09:42 pm
It's due to the bonus points you get for getting guys in their top 100/250 etc. It's a crock, a 3.35=3.35, lol.

It poses an interesting question.  Is it better to have a class mostly filled with lower rated players (i.e. low 3-stars) and a few really highly rated players (high 4-stars and 5-stars)?  Or, is it better to have a balanced class from top to bottom, with players in the high 3-star to low 4-star range?  We're more of the latter, but recruiting services seem to reward the former more.

BatesvilleHOG

Has Arkansas ever pulled in 10+ four stars in a class before this one? WOW! Go hogs!

DoctorSusscrofa

If we played Bama to a 1 point game and then recruited a better class than the recruiting classes we fielded in order to do it, I feel ok. I'll love it if this class helps us get an even better class next year, but I'm ok with this class.
I expect to win the games we ought to win and be competitive in as many other games as possible. - M Barton

tophawg19

how did our kicker fall to 14th yet become a 3 star or has he been a 3 star with them ? he was the number 1 in the nation. If you look at the numbers , we have no 2 stars for the first time in memory . look at all the recruits offer lists . i can't think of 1 who didn't have a good number of P-5 offers .
if you ain't a hawg you ain't chitlins

redeye

Quote from: tophawg19 on January 29, 2015, 03:28:09 pm
how did our kicker fall to 14th yet become a 3 star or has he been a 3 star with them ? he was the number 1 in the nation. If you look at the numbers , we have no 2 stars for the first time in memory . look at all the recruits offer lists . i can't think of 1 who didn't have a good number of P-5 offers .

They don't rate kickers high.  Not sure I've ever seen a 4-star kicker before.

Also, they don't all agree on who's #1.

P.S. I don't agree that kickers shouldn't be ranked high.

OneTuskOverTheLine™

Quote from: Wildhog on January 29, 2015, 02:35:10 pm
You think he should ranked better?  Or worse?

I thought I was the only one...  +1
Quote from: capehog on March 12, 2010...
My ex wife had a pet monkey I used to play with. That was one of the few things I liked about her

quote from: golf2day on June 19, 2014....
I'm disgusted, but kinda excited. Now I'm disgusted that I'm excited.

OneTuskOverTheLine™

Quote from: TM Hog on January 29, 2015, 02:46:03 pm
Well, I guess 21st is good. But not excited as that won't get it done in the SEC. At least not as an elite team.

Just stop... If you honestly believe these recruiting services have this system figured out so well then you need help...
Quote from: capehog on March 12, 2010...
My ex wife had a pet monkey I used to play with. That was one of the few things I liked about her

quote from: golf2day on June 19, 2014....
I'm disgusted, but kinda excited. Now I'm disgusted that I'm excited.

Hog N Bama

Quote from: Dropkick on January 29, 2015, 02:51:09 pm
Yeah, we won't be able to compete with team with classes like Alabama, LSU, Texas............oh wait?
Best post in a LOOONNNNGGGG time.  ;D

welchog

Quote from: COCHISE on January 29, 2015, 02:09:43 pm
Currently #21 and showing 10 4* commitments, including J. Allen.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/8/class/2015

Well, they may like us, but they like EVERY SEC WEST team better.  We are a solid 7th in the SEC West recruiting-wise.

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but if you are going to tell the story, tell the whole story.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: welchog on January 29, 2015, 03:47:28 pm
Well, they may like us, but they like EVERY SEC WEST team better.  We are a solid 7th in the SEC West recruiting-wise.

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but if you are going to tell the story, tell the whole story.

Here's the thing, those teams are usually ahead of us every year.  The point is our class is better than what we historically do.  So we're closing the gap. 

We don't have program that can turn on a dime.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Hawgzinbowlz

Quote from: TM Hog on January 29, 2015, 02:46:03 pm
Well, I guess 21st is good. But not excited as that won't get it done in the SEC. At least not as an elite team.
It's unfortunate you're sorrowful. Buck up partner, a lot of us are thrilled. We'll pick up the slack.

" GO HOGS "

 

welchog

I'll take Bama, LSU, TAMU, and even AU...but OM and MSU are not historically better recruiting-wise than the Hogs.  Maybe in the last five years, but over the long haul, no. 

Bottom line is to be better than those teams will mean we will have to out-coach, out-recruit, or both and both the jury is still out on.  One or two years does not a history make. 

I do like it that we are improving in the recruiting wars, but we still have a ways to go.   Maybe the last 4 will bump us over OM or MSU?

hawginbigd1

If we land 3 of the last 4 I don't give a rat's behind what rating they have us at. I wouldn't trade you for anybody but MAYBE Auburn, Bama, or LSU.

ricepig

Quote from: welchog on January 29, 2015, 03:54:32 pm
I'll take Bama, LSU, TAMU, and even AU...but OM and MSU are not historically better recruiting-wise than the Hogs.  Maybe in the last five years, but over the long haul, no. 

Bottom line is to be better than those teams will mean we will have to out-coach, out-recruit, or both and both the jury is still out on.  One or two years does not a history make. 

I do like it that we are improving in the recruiting wars, but we still have a ways to go.   Maybe the last 4 will bump us over OM or MSU?

And if it does, it proves, what?

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: welchog on January 29, 2015, 03:54:32 pm
I'll take Bama, LSU, TAMU, and even AU...but OM and MSU are not historically better recruiting-wise than the Hogs.  Maybe in the last five years, but over the long haul, no. 

Bottom line is to be better than those teams will mean we will have to out-coach, out-recruit, or both and both the jury is still out on.  One or two years does not a history make. 

I do like it that we are improving in the recruiting wars, but we still have a ways to go.   Maybe the last 4 will bump us over OM or MSU?

Retain players.  Have a good retention rate from multiple top 25 classes and you have a chance to have an extremely competitive team. 

Coach them properly and develop them physically.

Put them in positions to succeed.

Have a system and recruit to it with players that fit what you want to do.

Avoid disastrous classes. 




Mizzou has had stability at the head coaching level and has maintained continuity in what they do.  This breeds consistency.  When better recruiting programs cycle down for whatever reason, programs who are stable and consistent can have success.  Mizzou put themselves in that position the last two seasons when breaks went there way. 


People talk about Oregon's success is due to the branding.  It is along with some other methods they have used.  But they have been extremely stable and dedicated to what they want to do and recruit to it.  When a head coach leaves, they promote the OC. 


Hopefully we have entered an era of stability for a while. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Hawgzinbowlz

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on January 29, 2015, 04:09:46 pm
Retain players.  Have a good retention rate from multiple top 25 classes and you have a chance to have an extremely competitive team. 

Coach them properly and develop them physically.

Put them in positions to succeed.

Have a system and recruit to it with players that fit what you want to do.

Avoid disastrous classes. 




Mizzou has had stability at the head coaching level and has maintained continuity in what they do.  This breeds consistency.  When better recruiting programs cycle down for whatever reason, programs who are stable and consistent can have success.  Mizzou put themselves in that position the last two seasons when breaks went there way. 


People talk about Oregon's success is due to the branding.  It is along with some other methods they have used.  But they have been extremely stable and dedicated to what they want to do and recruit to it.  When a head coach leaves, they promote the OC. 


Hopefully we have entered an era of stability for a while.

Good post. It made me quit reaching for the hanky.

" GO HOGS "

Hoginsavga

Quote from: Hawgzinbowlz on January 29, 2015, 04:18:07 pm
Good post. It made me quit reaching for the hanky.

" GO HOGS "


And it made me quit reaching for the whisky.

Uncommon

Quote from: TM Hog on January 29, 2015, 02:46:03 pm
Well, I guess 21st is good. But not excited as that won't get it done in the SEC. At least not as an elite team.
smh

Considering the lack of solid recruiting by the previous regime and the season we just had, 21st is a solid team recruiting ranking for this year's class.  It'll get better than this, especially if we go 8-4 or better this next season, but don't expect it to change overnight.

The_Iceman

People are going to look back in 4 years and laugh at how underrated Dre Greenlaw was. He is going to be an outstanding OLB.

Exit Pursued by a Boar

If you look at the ratings/rankings you'll see Alabama is heads and shoulders above everyone and they are every year.  Given that, you can expect that they'll be good year in and year out, especially with good coaching.

After Bama there may be 4-6 schools bunched up with similar very good classes.

After that, you're parsing.  Is a 5.8 that much better than a 5.7 or that much worse than a 5.9?  Can you really distinguish between a 3.34 and 3.35?  I'd say no.  Emphatically.

So we're in the ballpark with other top 15-30 teams.  Other questions come into play:

Has coach recruited players that fit style of play?
Has coach recruited players that will stay?
Has coach recruited players that will respond to coaching?
Has coach recruited players that have already hit a physical peak or are they still growing? --often the difference between a 5* and 3*, btw.
Will coach put players in a position where they'll thrive (either literally in the position they'll play or figuratively in terms of environment)?

That depends on the coach, the players, and the coach's assessment of the players before signing day.

I think we're in a good place, better than we have been for a while. Is the competition stiff? Of course.  But, like the Jeffersons, we're moving on up.

EFBAB

Wildhog

Quote from: The_Iceman on January 29, 2015, 04:30:44 pm
People are going to look back in 4 years and laugh at how underrated Dre Greenlaw was. He is going to be an outstanding OLB.

5.7 3-star is actually a pretty high rating.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

Pork Twain

Quote from: opineonswine on January 29, 2015, 02:50:48 pm
Not that much difference until you get to the very top.  A&M is 9th and their avg player rating is 3.35.  We are 21st and our avg player rating is also 3.35 (On Rivals...not sure about ESPN).  We are up there and in good company.
I really do not see a ton of difference in the top 25.  Impossible to accurately grade a player down to a decimal point.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on January 29, 2015, 04:09:46 pm
Retain players.  Have a good retention rate from multiple top 25 classes and you have a chance to have an extremely competitive team. 

Coach them properly and develop them physically.

Put them in positions to succeed.

Have a system and recruit to it with players that fit what you want to do.

Avoid disastrous classes. 




Mizzou has had stability at the head coaching level and has maintained continuity in what they do.  This breeds consistency.  When better recruiting programs cycle down for whatever reason, programs who are stable and consistent can have success.  Mizzou put themselves in that position the last two seasons when breaks went there way. 


People talk about Oregon's success is due to the branding.  It is along with some other methods they have used.  But they have been extremely stable and dedicated to what they want to do and recruit to it.  When a head coach leaves, they promote the OC. 


Hopefully we have entered an era of stability for a while.
Well there's no question that Mizzou has done a very good job of developing most of their talent although they typically aren't particularly near the top of the recruiting rankings. One other thing that's helped them IMMENSELY is their very low coaching staff turnover. I think a lot of folks often forget the tremendous advantage it brings a program if you can get good coaches and KEEP THEM longer than a year or two. Most of UM's staff has been there more than just a couple/three years.

Hawgzinbowlz


regi

What I Find interesting, all sites have is at either 20 or 21st in recruiting ranking. Pretty solid job. I think Wethersby, Jackson and Scott will put us at about 18 or 19th to finish. Good enough

TX HOG


jgphillips3

With our system and player development, we can go a LONG way if we keep having classes rated 10-20. We can even win a title when the stars align.

redeye

Quote from: Hoginsavga on January 29, 2015, 04:22:17 pm

And it made me quit reaching for the whisky.

Speaking of Whisky, Wisconsin has more starters in this year's Super Bowl then any other school, and yet, they haven't recruited as well as we have.  I realize this has been discussed ad nausem, but why does Wisconsin have so many?  I think it's because their coaches (i.e. Bielema) have recruited players that may not have been rated high, but who they knew had huge potential and they molded/sculpted/trained them to be great players.  5-star players have the most ability straight out of high school (probably as juniors in high school, if you wanna be specific), but as some have pointed out, their potential is often maxed out and they often don't work as hard to improve.

Many like to note the low number of 5-star players, in contrast to the large number of 2 and 3 stars, but if 5-star players really had that much more potential, wouldn't every NFL team have a few starting for them?  A few 4-star players are on this year's starting rosters, but the vast majority were NR, 2 or 3 star players.  Players that may have redshirted and then dedicated a lot of time in weight rooms preparing themselves to be great players.  The key, of course, is in finding those that have the potential and Bielema did a fine job of that at Wisconsin.

I'm not arguing that I'd rather have 2 and 3 star players, because the data still shows teams with more 4-5 star players have been more successful in college.  However, I do think a reason for that is because great coaches, and great teams, attract highly rated players, rather then the other way around (i.e. Alabama is great because it has great players.)  Bielema's proven to be a pretty good head coach himself and our recruiting will improve as we get better (Petrino was the reason it didn't after the 2010-11 seasons.)  My point is that because Bielema's a great coach, he will find great talent, regardless if they're 2-stars, 5-stars or unranked.  Saban once did the same before he turned Alabama into the power it is today.

Quote from: welchog on January 29, 2015, 03:47:28 pm
Well, they may like us, but they like EVERY SEC WEST team better.  We are a solid 7th in the SEC West recruiting-wise.

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but if you are going to tell the story, tell the whole story.

Most recruiting services only have MSU higher because they have more commitments, but we'll likely pass MSU eventually.  But really, most of us already realize that we're last in the SEC-W in the rankings, so we don't feel the need to say it all the time.