Hightail

[showhimthewhip]

Ran pretty good in the Juvy Sprint.  It seems like a typical Lukas (of late) move to fill is plate with more than he can eat right off the bat.  The 1 1/16 distance seems a little much.  If I know lukas, the horse had been training to run the 6f sprint all of his career.  Can't tell me you can condition him up in the two weeks before the Delta Jackpot.  I like the horse and I hope he shocks me.  I just wish he was under the care of a Graham Motion, Larry Jones type trainer.

[cbhawg03]

Titletown Five – Picked up minor awards in his first three starts, but after a freshening and the addition of Lasix, this Tiznow colt recently exploded with a seven furlong maiden win at Churchill by the length of the stretch (nine lengths, to be precise), earning a 97 Beyer. Titletown Five, like Breeders' Cup Juvenile Sprint upsetter Hightail, is trained by D. Wayne Lukas. I think Titletown Five is by far the better of the two.

from drf

[The Hog]

Question.  Assume this horse stays healthy until the Kentucky Derby.  How many times will Lucas run him?  My son thinks Lucas will run the legs off the horse before April.

[cbhawg03]

Question.  Assume this horse stays healthy until the Kentucky Derby.  How many times will Lucas run him?  My son thinks Lucas will run the legs off the horse before April.

Hightail or Titletown Five?

Hightail will probably run in 5 or 6 races between now and the KY Derby if he makes it to the KY Derby. The Delta race is included in that 5 or 6 races.

Titletown Five will probably run in 4-5 races between now and the KY Derby if he makes it to the KY Derby.

[showhimthewhip]

Here is a staggering figure.

Optimizer (The show pony of the Lukas barn this year) ran his 12th race this year in the Breeder's Cup Turf.  This includes the AR Derby, all three triple crown races, and the VA Derby. 

I understand 12 races from an allowance horse and below.  The cheap horses need to run enough to pay for their self.

He won is 10th and 11th races of the year.  One was a Gr. III. 

What could this horse had been if he were in some one else's barn?  Maybe he is just an allowance horse.  Maybe he is a stakes horse that wasn't given a chance. 

I must say I am proud of this horse for the way he has held up!!!

Am I way off target to assume that both of these 2 yr old have no idea of the torture that is fixing to occur?  He has made an unfathomable amount of money training horses so he undoubtedly knows more about it than I do, but I think I would baby my babies... especially if they were my cash cows.

[songofthesword]

i don't have a problem with lukas running O 12 times. that's how you are supposed to do it.  and hell he hadn't lost a turf race all year until the turf it's not like he was scurbbing it up. that's how they run them in japan, that's how they runt hem in hong kong, that's how they run them in aussie land.  they use the races to get the horses into shape down there, horse might run 3 times in a 4 week period.

what i do have a problem with is with lukas running horses over their heads.  it was clear quite early that O was not a dirt horse let a lone a triple crown dirt horse.

Hightail is by mineshaft. conventional wisdom would tell you that he would get better as he gets older and would love 2 turns, mineshaft being by ap indy, however that has not proven to be the case with mineshaft baby's.. they are much better going 7F.  Cool Coal Man, it's tricky won weak G1 at 9F but she is a much better miler, fly down, i had this exact convo with you guys 2 years ago about dailed in and said he wasn't bred to go a route of ground,  Coal Play.  they aren't really sprinters but they aren't 2 turn horses.

i say all that to say, the horse deserves a shot on the TC trail. he's earned that. ;but if he starts folding cut him back asap.

remember this is the first year of the road to the kentucky derby..  what the hores did as a 2YO is irrevalant. the only thing that matters now is hitting the board in a grade 1 prep now basically. something i don't think he can do.

[showhimthewhip]

That's a good point.  I guess the point I was making was that if he WERE a triple crown horse, why not take it easy on him.  I understand that 12 races isn't going to kill him but following up your argument, at least lukas could have put him in HIS races instead of the races that would keep Lukas on the scene.

Everything you said about Hightail was spot on.  He has earned the right to attempt at the TC prep races but I don't think that is where he needs to be.

[showhimthewhip]

http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/story/_/id/8636148/lukas-shine-delta

[The Hog]

Hightail or Titletown Five?

Hightail will probably run in 5 or 6 races between now and the KY Derby if he makes it to the KY Derby. The Delta race is included in that 5 or 6 races.

Titletown Five will probably run in 4-5 races between now and the KY Derby if he makes it to the KY Derby.

Hightail.  Sorry for not being clear on that.

[The Hog]

i don't have a problem with lukas running O 12 times. that's how you are supposed to do it.  and hell he hadn't lost a turf race all year until the turf it's not like he was scurbbing it up. that's how they run them in japan, that's how they runt hem in hong kong, that's how they run them in aussie land.  they use the races to get the horses into shape down there, horse might run 3 times in a 4 week period.

what i do have a problem with is with lukas running horses over their heads.  it was clear quite early that O was not a dirt horse let a lone a triple crown dirt horse.

Hightail is by mineshaft. conventional wisdom would tell you that he would get better as he gets older and would love 2 turns, mineshaft being by ap indy, however that has not proven to be the case with mineshaft baby's.. they are much better going 7F.  Cool Coal Man, it's tricky won weak G1 at 9F but she is a much better miler, fly down, i had this exact convo with you guys 2 years ago about dailed in and said he wasn't bred to go a route of ground,  Coal Play.  they aren't really sprinters but they aren't 2 turn horses.

i say all that to say, the horse deserves a shot on the TC trail. he's earned that. ;but if he starts folding cut him back asap.

remember this is the first year of the road to the kentucky derby..  what the hores did as a 2YO is irrevalant. the only thing that matters now is hitting the board in a grade 1 prep now basically. something i don't think he can do.

The BC Juvy sure has not been a good stepping stone for winning the derby.

[husker71]

Jack Van Berg said the other day on TVG that without any drugs Argetinain horses race 30 to 40 times a year.  Barry Irwin of Team Valor agreed with him about no Lasix and Clenbutorol.

[The Hog]

Jack Van Berg said the other day on TVG that without any drugs Argetinain horses race 30 to 40 times a year.  Barry Irwin of Team Valor agreed with him about no Lasix and Clenbutorol.

I know SOS posted a good take on the iron horses vs today's ponies.

[songofthesword]

There are very good uses for lasix... it helps horses that would otherwise bleed.

however I mean, to put it in perspective...  anyone here ever play basketball like for a jr or high school?   if you did,  you remember the line drills you had to do and you dreeded that darn all summer long, and you prom ised yourself that you would start tog et back in shape before the school started so that you would not die during the line drills, and of course you never did.

so practice starts and you go through your drills or what not, now the coach blows the whistle, balls on the rack.  guards down here, forwards and centers down there. down and back, then F's and C's down and back. rotate.  then you do suicides (5 times down and back in 1 minute) and you woudl do this stuff, depending on the coach, i playerd for coach Bealer at fuller and then went to mills.. we would litearlly do this stuff for the half of the damn practice lol.

i say all that to say,  the first day.. literally half the team is throwing up. i was so tired my junior year of hs i could not stand up to get to the locker room.  this goes on for 4-5 days.  then the next week.. you can do it, and you are damn tired.. but you aren't can't stand up tired. 

then the next week.. you can do it, and you are tired, but you aren't worn out.  and crap in 2-3 months by the time real basketball season rolls around running line drills for an hour isn't even a big deal.  i mean you don't want to do it but if that is what coach wants to do screw it let's do it.   we got so conditioned under coach bealer that there were saturday pratices that we literally ran from 8:45 utnil noon, and no one on the team was beat to the point where they could not have kept going. by the time season really got rolling, we could full court press the entire game, not come out the game and not break a sweat.

my point being, yeah, lasix helps horses that bleed, but giving horses lasix, is the equivlant of giving high school athletes medicine to help control them from not throwing up after basketball pratice. lol the issue isn't or shoudln't be how to control the bleeding it should be how can you stop the horses from bleeding in the first place.

the reason the horses bleed s much as they do is beucase they aren't worked hard enough to get to the races.  they extort so much effort in the races they bleed.  that's why they dont' use as much medication as they do over seas..t hey don't need to

now, you have some horses that are legitimate bleeders... Seniec Blast, the horses that was based out in socal was a legit bleeders in Australia and had to come here where they allowed lasix. but we just use lasix now to prevent horses from having to train as much.

[showhimthewhip]

So you are saying an overall ban is not needed but some sort of regulation is?  I'll agree with that.

I ask this because I am genuinely curious.  What are the negative effects of lasix on horses?

[songofthesword]

lol i'm saying our trainers don't know how to train horses. 

lasix has 2 primary detrimental side effects

the first being that it's a dielectric.  it takes out eletrolites and all that good stuff and considering you have to administrator it to the horse a few hours before the race the horse is running with less body fluid, and it takes longer for the horses to recover between races because the effort took more out of them.

the other side effect which is really one in the same, is that beucase it's a dilutric, it helps mask the use of other drugs beucase it cleanses it out the system

[The Hog]

lol i'm saying our trainers don't know how to train horses. 

lasix has 2 primary detrimental side effects

the first being that it's a dielectric.  it takes out eletrolites and all that good stuff and considering you have to administrator it to the horse a few hours before the race the horse is running with less body fluid, and it takes longer for the horses to recover between races because the effort took more out of them.

the other side effect which is really one in the same, is that beucase it's a dilutric, it helps mask the use of other drugs beucase it cleanses it out the system

Of the articles I have read about lasix I am glad someone explained what it actually does to the horse other than stops bleeding.  I can believe what you are saying because losing electrolytes has a negative impact of athletes if they do not continue to replenishing them on a consistent basis.

[songofthesword]

oh i assure you i'm not that smart. i just have a GF who does this darn and i have to hear it just about every other day.