Of course the refs did not cost us the game, but...

[HOGGvol]

I do not agree with a poster in another thread who says that fairness in calling a game is merely a matter of mathematics. That poster implied that by merely comparing the free throws attempted by each team, the fairness in officiating could be determined and that anything else was entirely subjective. To that I call BS.

If this were the case, then all calls or (no calls) by the officials are equal. That is to say, a bad call in the first 5 minutes of a close game is equal to a bad call in the last 5 minutes of a close game. There is no difference. Likewise, a no-call on a clear foul on one end that results in a dunk on the other end when the game is still viable would be equal to the 3rd string of the leading team getting called for fouls at the end of the game when the game is clearly out of reach.

This is bunk. Basketball has an emotional element and a bad call on a play that would take a team from being down by 12 to 10 which instead pushes the other team to a 14 point advantage can and does have a huge impact on a team. It swings the momentum.

Once again, the refs did not cause us to lose this game. Kentucky is basically an NBA team and there is really no college team that is going to beat them at home. That said, the refs did hose us at several key points in the game. The no-calls on Qualls being fouled inside that led to KY dunks and the Madden no-call that led to the T were atrocious no-calls to name just a couple.

All I am saying is that WHEN the bad calls are made (or not made) does matter.

[Dr. Starcs]

^^^

This is a good post.

[lc480]

Very True. A bad foul can kill the rally of the team that's behind.

[hogsanity]

Yet in many games this year hig fans have pointed at foul count and ft disparity as proof the refs were bad.

For decades basketball has let big men bang down low. Ky is full of big men who play physical ball. Virginia and gonzaga do as well as a few other teams.

What hog fans want is the refs to let the hog guards put their hands all over ball handlers but call it very tight on the opponents big men because the hogs physicality is out front with the guards not on the inside.

[Dropkick]

Yet in many games this year hig fans have pointed at foul count and ft disparity as proof the refs were bad.

For decades basketball has let big men bang down low. Ky is full of big men who play physical ball. Virginia and gonzaga do as well as a few other teams.

What hog fans want is the refs to let the hog guards put their hands all over ball handlers but call it very tight on the opponents big men because the hogs physicality is out front with the guards not on the inside.

No I think Hog fans would like to see refs be consistent and you don't get that in the SEC. Poor officiating is poor officiating no matter who it favors in a particular game. When you knock a player to floor on one end with no call and then whistle a hand check on the other end it is bizarre to say the least.

[MAL3]

Refereeing at every level in basketball is atrocious. Plus I'd stop paying attention too if one team was down 30 points.

[HOGGvol]

I think we just don't want the officiating to all be one way or the other. If our guards get touch fouls called on them, then their bigs get called for knocking people to the floor. It also seems like there were a lot of fouls called on us whenever they caught the ball in the paint, yet Qualls couldn't buy a call when he went inside.

They would have likely beaten us either way that day, but many of our chances at a rally to get back into the game seemed to be stifled by obvious no-calls at critical points.

[naturalbornpigger]

IMO the officiating yesterday was the worst I've seen in a while.  The number of "no calls" against KY defenders was remarkable.  It seems we have lived this year in a league where the "foul" was anticipated.  Yesterday, it seems that a "clean block" was anticipated.  Many times with Madden, Kingsley, Beard, and Portis going up inside they were fouled.  But no call because "Kentucky is just that good." 

This said, I think the final score was a fair indicator of the teams.  It's just that officiating in the first 30 minutes of play was seriously out of balance.

[NorthDallas40]

Like the clean block on Harris dunk at the start of the game they kept showing at least three times later in the game when it was all arm not too mention body!

[azhog10]

Yet in many games this year hig fans have pointed at foul count and ft disparity as proof the refs were bad.

For decades basketball has let big men bang down low. Ky is full of big men who play physical ball. Virginia and gonzaga do as well as a few other teams.

What hog fans want is the refs to let the hog guards put their hands all over ball handlers but call it very tight on the opponents big men because the hogs physicality is out front with the guards not on the inside.

The very thing you are complaining to fans about is exactly what happens just reversed. Refs call it tight outside and let war breakout underneath. Pretty stupid post.

[MAL3]

Like the clean block on Harris dunk at the start of the game they kept showing at least three times later in the game when it was all arm not too mention body!

Inconsistent and awful

[hogsanity]

The inconsistency people are citing, tight out front and pretty much no holds barred down low, is actually VERY CONSISTENT.  That is how bball has been called for decades. The old saying is true: football is a collision sport, basketball is a contact sport.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

I've seen worse but when they tried to take out beard abs didn't call anything I came unglued.

Our coach did as well. Glad he showed that Nolan fire.

[urkillnmesmalls]

If the hope is that the home court bias is going away in the SEC anytime soon, I wouldn't hold your breath.  If you're going to win road games, you better be good enough to overcome the hostile crowd and the ref bias, or just stay home.  That's just how it is.  Ole Miss beat us at BWA this year because they made shots from the perimeter and we didn't defend as well as usual and use the bias to our advantage.  Outside of that, surely no one will argue that we were the beneficiary of the officials' bias this season at home. 

When our defense is playing like MA wants them to, there are so many fouls that the sheer volume starts to be the deterrent for the officials to blow the whistle.  The game would never end.  That's what we want to happen.  What stinks is when we get into the NCAAT, and they start calling it so close at the start, that it completely negates what MA is trying to accomplish. 

MOST games with less whistles favor us.  KY...is probably the exception, because they challenge every shot, and after they've got a clean block or two, the refs are less likely to call the close ones.  But yes...absolutely they got more calls than we did.  But...we knew, MA knew, and the kids had to know that was going to happen.  That's life in the SEC.     

[3of5-2]

If the hope is that the home court bias is going away in the SEC anytime soon, I wouldn't hold your breath.  If you're going to win road games, you better be good enough to overcome the hostile crowd and the ref bias, or just stay home.  That's just how it is.  Ole Miss beat us at BWA this year because they made shots from the perimeter and we didn't defend as well as usual and use the bias to our advantage.  Outside of that, surely no one will argue that we were the beneficiary of the officials' bias this season at home. 

When our defense is playing like MA wants them to, there are so many fouls that the sheer volume starts to be the deterrent for the officials to blow the whistle.  The game would never end.  That's what we want to happen.  What stinks is when we get into the NCAAT, and they start calling it so close at the start, that it completely negates what MA is trying to accomplish. 

MOST games with less whistles favor us.  KY...is probably the exception, because they challenge every shot, and after they've got a clean block or two, the refs are less likely to call the close ones.  But yes...absolutely they got more calls than we did.  But...we knew, MA knew, and the kids had to know that was going to happen.  That's life in the SEC.     

This is pretty dead on right here. One thing I will add, is that Beard has been the victim of several first half fouls that have have been questionable at best. Most on here have noticed that when Beard leaves before the end of the first half, we lose a lot of our momentum or cohesion. If we notice it, you can bet opposing coaches have noticed it, and I'm sure they are telling the refs before the game starts, to keep a handle on the tight guard play.

[hawg IQ]

I do not agree with a poster in another thread who says that fairness in calling a game is merely a matter of mathematics. That poster implied that by merely comparing the free throws attempted by each team, the fairness in officiating could be determined and that anything else was entirely subjective. To that I call BS.

If this were the case, then all calls or (no calls) by the officials are equal. That is to say, a bad call in the first 5 minutes of a close game is equal to a bad call in the last 5 minutes of a close game. There is no difference. Likewise, a no-call on a clear foul on one end that results in a dunk on the other end when the game is still viable would be equal to the 3rd string of the leading team getting called for fouls at the end of the game when the game is clearly out of reach.

This is bunk. Basketball has an emotional element and a bad call on a play that would take a team from being down by 12 to 10 which instead pushes the other team to a 14 point advantage can and does have a huge impact on a team. It swings the momentum.

Once again, the refs did not cause us to lose this game. Kentucky is basically an NBA team and there is really no college team that is going to beat them at home. That said, the refs did hose us at several key points in the game. The no-calls on Qualls being fouled inside that led to KY dunks and the Madden no-call that led to the T were atrocious no-calls to name just a couple.

All I am saying is that WHEN the bad calls are made (or not made) does matter.

I agree, we lose the game either way. I didn't really think officiating was that bad. It was much worse in other hog games this year.
   I believe a good ref calls a foul when either team does something unfairly that gives them an advantage. Elsewise , let them play.
  My biggest gripe on officials is calling an anticipated foul. They do this way too much. As the old sayin goes, don't call what you can't see.

[HOGGvol]

I don't think we got all the calls in the 2nd half of the ATM game and we were at home. It doesn't have to be insanely biased for the home team does it? It seems like usually the calls are at least a little less biased in the 2nd half of these games, but we didn't see that in the KY game. The Madden hard foul no call was late in the 2nd half.

[urkillnmesmalls]

This is pretty dead on right here. One thing I will add, is that Beard has been the victim of several first half fouls that have have been questionable at best. Most on here have noticed that when Beard leaves before the end of the first half, we lose a lot of our momentum or cohesion. If we notice it, you can bet opposing coaches have noticed it, and I'm sure they are telling the refs before the game starts, to keep a handle on the tight guard play.

I have no doubt that the opposing coaches are prepping the refs from the word go.  But...Beard does get some fouls he shouldn't get due to not moving his feet more on defense, and reaching and riding guys.  If you're doing that, and the ref is already watching for it, that's not going to bode well for Beard.  Whether it's fair or not, he's going to have to be aware of that and stop some of the reaching and physical play and stop getting fouls.   

He has taken us to a different level.  Just his quickness alone has helped us look better on both ends.  I love his competitive fire, and while I know some guys have that but you don't see it, I like to SEE IT.  I want to know when someone is angry that they're being beat.  Not childish...but visibly upset about it.  He's like that.  I haven't seen him moping around when we're down, and his spirit seems to be pervasive. 

In lieu of all of that, he needs to give a little more space, move his feet and front guys, and use his quickness to play solid defense and not reach.  If they're calling it...you have to adapt, and unfortunately, at times this season, he hasn't done that.  I'm sure they're working with him on it, and he'll improve.  We've already seen FT improvement.   

[hogpc]

I do not agree with a poster in another thread who says that fairness in calling a game is merely a matter of mathematics. That poster implied that by merely comparing the free throws attempted by each team, the fairness in officiating could be determined and that anything else was entirely subjective. To that I call BS.

If this were the case, then all calls or (no calls) by the officials are equal. That is to say, a bad call in the first 5 minutes of a close game is equal to a bad call in the last 5 minutes of a close game. There is no difference. Likewise, a no-call on a clear foul on one end that results in a dunk on the other end when the game is still viable would be equal to the 3rd string of the leading team getting called for fouls at the end of the game when the game is clearly out of reach.

This is bunk. Basketball has an emotional element and a bad call on a play that would take a team from being down by 12 to 10 which instead pushes the other team to a 14 point advantage can and does have a huge impact on a team. It swings the momentum.

Once again, the refs did not cause us to lose this game. Kentucky is basically an NBA team and there is really no college team that is going to beat them at home. That said, the refs did hose us at several key points in the game. The no-calls on Qualls being fouled inside that led to KY dunks and the Madden no-call that led to the T were atrocious no-calls to name just a couple.

All I am saying is that WHEN the bad calls are made (or not made) does matter.

I'm calling BS on your post, here's why:  If AR had won the game would you have posted this?  Of course not. That's all the proof I need. Your post, though more even handed than most who complained about the refs, was made because we lost the game and you didn't think the ref's were fair.  To that I say, "so what."  Will the refs ever call a game 100% correctly?  No, and even if they did someone somewhere would be complaining anyway. Most fans just need to grow up, grow a set and quit complaining about the refs every time we lose a game. I am a big believer in personal responsibility and not making excuses, and I apply that even when I'm watching my favorite teams.

[hillhog]

This mentality of "let em play", whomever is the strongest and can push the other guy out rules is why I quit watching pro basketball, each year it seems the college game is becoming more and more this way. Tends to put a "skilled" player at a disadvantage. Hate to see it happening.

[urkillnmesmalls]

I don't think we got all the calls in the 2nd half of the ATM game and we were at home. It doesn't have to be insanely biased for the home team does it? It seems like usually the calls are at least a little less biased in the 2nd half of these games, but we didn't see that in the KY game. The Madden hard foul no call was late in the 2nd half.

Are you talking about the play where Madden went down the left side of the lane, had ABSOLUTELY no chance to get that shot to the rim, and he got stuffed and fell down?  There was some contact down low, but it didn't impact the play...it was after the ball was blocked by someone's armpit.  There was NO WAY that shot was going anywhere but back at him. 

He's really good at times with drawing contact and getting fouls.  On that play, if it's the one you're speaking about, he threw up a prayer and it wasn't answered.  That's how I perceived it, and I absolutely despise KY and Calipari.

And for the record, I wish it wasn't biased at all.  I wish it was called even.  BUT...it isn't, and statistics show that it isn't.  There wasn't a call in that game that impacted anything.  We were never close enough for them to.  I can't recall any near comeback that was thwarted on a bad call.  They just played more physical on both ends, and hit shots.  We could come out inspired in the SECCG in the coming weeks and play the same way and nip them.  I won't hold my breath, but MUCH stranger things have happened. 

But rest assured, if we're close at the end, and there's a close call that could go either way....it won't go our way.  That's KY, and they're trying to go undefeated.  Do you REALLY think a ref is going to call a charge on a KY player in the last 20 seconds if we're up 2?  NOT A CHANCE.   

[lribookend]

I am a huge UK fan. Having said that, the vast majority of UK fans respect the Arkansas teams, and consider it a huge rivalry. AR beat UK the prior 3 games in basketball, including one at Rupp. But, the AR fans always show class, unlike many SEC teams that throw bottles and racist chants at the UK players.
AR has a really good basketball team. Did UK get some home cooking? Absolutely! By my count, the number of bad calls would be AR 2-1. Two bad calls (or no-calls) by AR for every one bad call (or no call) against UK.
But that happens frequently in all of college basketball. Nobody wants to play at Bud-Walton arena. Why? Same reason. Home cooking. You can't have it both ways.

But for those fans that think that Cal cheats? Well, the NCAA made it clear that the violations at UMASS (Camby taking money from an agent) and Rose, at Memphis, supposedly having someone else take his SAT test were not tied to Cal. Rose was cleared to play by the NCAA, then later was decided they should have made him ineligible.
Please name me a coach/team in college basketball who is more closely scrutinized by the NCAA, SEC teams, or the media. There is no one.  Here is the UK compliance branch:

Kentucky Compliance Staff

University of Kentucky Compliance
Joe Craft Center - Room 231
338 Lexington Ave.
Lexington, KY 40506-0604

Phone (859) 257-8604 -
Fax (859) 323-4999

Name   Title   Phone   Email
Bell, Sandy   Executive Associate AD for Student Services   (859) 257-4081   sbell@uky.edu

Baker, Rachel   Senior Associate AD for Compliance   (859) 218-1464   rachel.baker@uky.edu

Butler, John   Assistant AD for Compliance   (859) 257-9784   butler@uky.edu

McAtee, Heather   Assistant AD for Academics & Eligibility   (859) 257-5475   heather.mcatee@uky.edu

Hillenberg, Ryne   Compliance Director   (859) 257-6482   r.hillenberg@uky.edu

Newsome, Jenna   Compliance Assistant   (859) 257-8604   jenna.newsome@uky.edu

Parsons, Candice   Compliance Intern   (859) 257-8604   

If any of you are AR fans who claim Cal cheats, please do all of us a favor and send your facts to someone above. Or, someone at the NCAA compliance branch. There is no coach or program that follows the rules more than UK. If you have evidence to the contrary, please notify the university/ncaa. Or else, shut your mouth.
Wildcat Larry

[HOGGvol]

I'm calling BS on your post, here's why:  If AR had won the game would you have posted this?  Of course not. That's all the proof I need. Your post, though more even handed than most who complained about the refs, was made because we lost the game and you didn't think the ref's were fair.  To that I say, "so what."  Will the refs ever call a game 100% correctly?  No, and even if they did someone somewhere would be complaining anyway. Most fans just need to grow up, grow a set and quit complaining about the refs every time we lose a game. I am a big believer in personal responsibility and not making excuses, and I apply that even when I'm watching my favorite teams.

The entire premise of your argument is without merit. We did not and would not get the majority of calls on the road and I don't expect to. What I was saying is that the timing of bad calls has a significant impact on the game. I never blamed the refs for this loss and went out of my way not to do that. However, that does not mean i cannot comment on what was bad about the officiating or the fact that certain calls have more impact than others and just counting the foul called does not imply fairness in officiating .

Also... nobody complains about the refs when they win do they? So that proves nothing.

[hawg IQ]

I am a huge UK fan. Having said that, the vast majority of UK fans respect the Arkansas teams, and consider it a huge rivalry. AR beat UK the prior 3 games in basketball, including one at Rupp. But, the AR fans always show class, unlike many SEC teams that throw bottles and racist chants at the UK players.
AR has a really good basketball team. Did UK get some home cooking? Absolutely! By my count, the number of bad calls would be AR 2-1. Two bad calls (or no-calls) by AR for every one bad call (or no call) against UK.
But that happens frequently in all of college basketball. Nobody wants to play at Bud-Walton arena. Why? Same reason. Home cooking. You can't have it both ways.

But for those fans that think that Cal cheats? Well, the NCAA made it clear that the violations at UMASS (Camby taking money from an agent) and Rose, at Memphis, supposedly having someone else take his SAT test were not tied to Cal. Rose was cleared to play by the NCAA, then later was decided they should have made him ineligible.
Please name me a coach/team in college basketball who is more closely scrutinized by the NCAA, SEC teams, or the media. There is no one.  Here is the UK compliance branch:

Kentucky Compliance Staff

University of Kentucky Compliance
Joe Craft Center - Room 231
338 Lexington Ave.
Lexington, KY 40506-0604

Phone (859) 257-8604 -
Fax (859) 323-4999

Name   Title   Phone   Email
Bell, Sandy   Executive Associate AD for Student Services   (859) 257-4081   sbell@uky.edu

Baker, Rachel   Senior Associate AD for Compliance   (859) 218-1464   rachel.baker@uky.edu

Butler, John   Assistant AD for Compliance   (859) 257-9784   butler@uky.edu

McAtee, Heather   Assistant AD for Academics & Eligibility   (859) 257-5475   heather.mcatee@uky.edu

Hillenberg, Ryne   Compliance Director   (859) 257-6482   r.hillenberg@uky.edu

Newsome, Jenna   Compliance Assistant   (859) 257-8604   jenna.newsome@uky.edu

Parsons, Candice   Compliance Intern   (859) 257-8604   

If any of you are AR fans who claim Cal cheats, please do all of us a favor and send your facts to someone above. Or, someone at the NCAA compliance branch. There is no coach or program that follows the rules more than UK. If you have evidence to the contrary, please notify the university/ncaa. Or else, shut your mouth.
Wildcat Larry

Where he cheats or not < I don't know. But the old walk like a duck-talk like a duck may apply. On top of that he's a proverbial a$$ !
   I will agree Kentucky is good because they are Kentucky. Yet most sec teams/fans view the wild cat program as smug. It is true most of us are jealous, yet we don't have to like it. I'll just say right now blue is in "catbird seat", please enjoy !

[urkillnmesmalls]

While I appreciate the kind words, look at it like this. 

Cal was the HEAD overseer at two programs that had violations.  Maybe he wasn't acutely aware, but he did either recruit the athletes on those teams, or pay the people who were charged to look after them.  Someone has to be in charge right?  It has to happen on someone's watch. 

So, if you're the beneficiary of those activities, and you continue to see your resume improve to the point that you are ultimately hired by KY, then you've benefited from the wrongdoing.  Period.  If it's one player...and he's your best player...it still holds true. 

So, he gets to KY and brings the same mentality that he employed at Memphis.  His thoughts are probably something very similar to this line of thinking.  "This is KY.  Big Blue.  We should get the best kids in the nation.  Let's get kids in here who don't give a rat's rear about school or academics, but want to play in the NBA.  We'll assemble a team of "one and done" athletes that are so good, that we'll just ride KY's reputation and bring in their replacements year after year.  The only way we'll fail is if we get a dud class or two, but on the whole..it's a can't lose proposition."

He has made a living at KY on specifically using that catch phrase.  I guarantee you he's out there in every home talking about nothing but that kid playing with the best talent in college around him, and that helping his cause to be seen and develop his skills in practice every day. 

And..he got there at least in part, and is benefiting from some key players at prior schools who cheated. 

Then if that's not enough, he comes out in the post game and says they are a young team.  "Yeah...no crap.  We know that...you're actively recruiting one and done players, and you LOVE it when it is repeated 100 times in every broadcast."  Yet, he whines about it as being something he has to work hard every day to overcome.  GIVE ME A BREAK!  It's EXACTLY what he's trying to foster...bringing in the best Fr. in the country with the promise of playing for NC's and going to the NBA. 

He's got it figured out.  It's just the ridiculous things he says that I find amusing, and I don't care for him.  Arkansas played UM for years, and he got there and squelched it.  He said it was because he didn't see a benefit, and wanted to play better competition.  Well...we wore them out for a lot of years, and took a lot of their recruits.  He shows up...wins big at Memphis, an academic scandal breaks, and he's completely absolved from it?  No.  There are PLENTY of us who think that was just the tip of the iceberg. 

I'm sure KY is watching him like a hawk.  I bet they can't wait to find something to run him out of town on so you guys won't have to field the horribly inexperienced "young" teams like you've been struggling with in the recent years.        

   

I am a huge UK fan. Having said that, the vast majority of UK fans respect the Arkansas teams, and consider it a huge rivalry. AR beat UK the prior 3 games in basketball, including one at Rupp. But, the AR fans always show class, unlike many SEC teams that throw bottles and racist chants at the UK players.
AR has a really good basketball team. Did UK get some home cooking? Absolutely! By my count, the number of bad calls would be AR 2-1. Two bad calls (or no-calls) by AR for every one bad call (or no call) against UK.
But that happens frequently in all of college basketball. Nobody wants to play at Bud-Walton arena. Why? Same reason. Home cooking. You can't have it both ways.

But for those fans that think that Cal cheats? Well, the NCAA made it clear that the violations at UMASS (Camby taking money from an agent) and Rose, at Memphis, supposedly having someone else take his SAT test were not tied to Cal. Rose was cleared to play by the NCAA, then later was decided they should have made him ineligible.
Please name me a coach/team in college basketball who is more closely scrutinized by the NCAA, SEC teams, or the media. There is no one.  Here is the UK compliance branch:

Kentucky Compliance Staff

University of Kentucky Compliance
Joe Craft Center - Room 231
338 Lexington Ave.
Lexington, KY 40506-0604

Phone (859) 257-8604 -
Fax (859) 323-4999

Name   Title   Phone   Email
Bell, Sandy   Executive Associate AD for Student Services   (859) 257-4081   sbell@uky.edu

Baker, Rachel   Senior Associate AD for Compliance   (859) 218-1464   rachel.baker@uky.edu

Butler, John   Assistant AD for Compliance   (859) 257-9784   butler@uky.edu

McAtee, Heather   Assistant AD for Academics & Eligibility   (859) 257-5475   heather.mcatee@uky.edu

Hillenberg, Ryne   Compliance Director   (859) 257-6482   r.hillenberg@uky.edu

Newsome, Jenna   Compliance Assistant   (859) 257-8604   jenna.newsome@uky.edu

Parsons, Candice   Compliance Intern   (859) 257-8604   

If any of you are AR fans who claim Cal cheats, please do all of us a favor and send your facts to someone above. Or, someone at the NCAA compliance branch. There is no coach or program that follows the rules more than UK. If you have evidence to the contrary, please notify the university/ncaa. Or else, shut your mouth.
Wildcat Larry

[MAL3]

Haha@shut your mouth. Point taken lol

[MemphisBossHog]

I am a huge UK fan. Having said that, the vast majority of UK fans respect the Arkansas teams, and consider it a huge rivalry. AR beat UK the prior 3 games in basketball, including one at Rupp. But, the AR fans always show class, unlike many SEC teams that throw bottles and racist chants at the UK players.
AR has a really good basketball team. Did UK get some home cooking? Absolutely! By my count, the number of bad calls would be AR 2-1. Two bad calls (or no-calls) by AR for every one bad call (or no call) against UK.
But that happens frequently in all of college basketball. Nobody wants to play at Bud-Walton arena. Why? Same reason. Home cooking. You can't have it both ways.

But for those fans that think that Cal cheats? Well, the NCAA made it clear that the violations at UMASS (Camby taking money from an agent) and Rose, at Memphis, supposedly having someone else take his SAT test were not tied to Cal. Rose was cleared to play by the NCAA, then later was decided they should have made him ineligible.
Please name me a coach/team in college basketball who is more closely scrutinized by the NCAA, SEC teams, or the media. There is no one.  Here is the UK compliance branch:

Kentucky Compliance Staff

University of Kentucky Compliance
Joe Craft Center - Room 231
338 Lexington Ave.
Lexington, KY 40506-0604

Phone (859) 257-8604 -
Fax (859) 323-4999

Name   Title   Phone   Email
Bell, Sandy   Executive Associate AD for Student Services   (859) 257-4081   sbell@uky.edu

Baker, Rachel   Senior Associate AD for Compliance   (859) 218-1464   rachel.baker@uky.edu

Butler, John   Assistant AD for Compliance   (859) 257-9784   butler@uky.edu

McAtee, Heather   Assistant AD for Academics & Eligibility   (859) 257-5475   heather.mcatee@uky.edu

Hillenberg, Ryne   Compliance Director   (859) 257-6482   r.hillenberg@uky.edu

Newsome, Jenna   Compliance Assistant   (859) 257-8604   jenna.newsome@uky.edu

Parsons, Candice   Compliance Intern   (859) 257-8604   

If any of you are AR fans who claim Cal cheats, please do all of us a favor and send your facts to someone above. Or, someone at the NCAA compliance branch. There is no coach or program that follows the rules more than UK. If you have evidence to the contrary, please notify the university/ncaa. Or else, shut your mouth.
Wildcat Larry

I see, its just coincidence that these things happened at schools where Cal coached.  Look, I am from MEM.  I have been around Cal longer than you have.  He is brilliant at insulating himself from the actual "deed."  Why the heck do you think he has this "apparatus" or "machine" in place?  It is of course for plausible deniability.   You honestly think that Cal had no knowledge that Rose didnt take his own SAT? 

Look, you are a KY fan.  You have the world by the tail right now.  Enjoy it.  Have fun, but dont ever fool yourself into rationalizing it away that because the NCAA "cleared" Cal of any wrong doing, that he didnt know or orchestrate the whole thing.

I mean get real.  KY is basketball royalty as well they should be.  Did you read that??  I agree they are basketball royalty but just because you can copy and paste the names of the KY compliance staff and put it in a post doesnt mean that they dont get away with improprieties.  No one is "hard" on KY about anything when it comes to college basketball.  They rule the roost so to speak. The NCAA probably fears them and Cal. Its like the old joke that Jerry Tarkanian used to say though he used different schools names:  The NCAA was so mad at Kentucky about those recruiting violations that they gave Western Kentucky another year's probation.  The NCAA needs KY to be good.  A good KY means better ratings on CBS. 

As far as the home cookin goes,  KY doesnt worry about playing Ark in Bud Walton because they think the refs will favor Ark.  KY is ALWAYS, home or road, going to be treated differently than any other program in the SEC.  It just is.  Most all of the rest of us have become resigned to the fact that its going to be that way and when a team steps up and actually beats KY (and that doesnt happen much), that team can be assured that not only did it beat KY, it overcame an obvious bias--wait a min let me rephrase--a different kind of treatment by the refs.

KY fans can continue to ride the wave and pursue perfection. Im sure it is a fun season for all of you/them, but your coach is a slime ball, used car salesman.  I watched him for 9 years here in MEM.  I heard all of his press conferences.  There is NO ONE on the face of the earth that can schmooze the media like Cal can. He is absolutely amazing. He could sell ice to Eskimos.  He is something to behold.  And he has fooled the right people into believing that "gee whiz, golly gee I had no idea that Camby was getting money from an agent or wow, you mean DRose really didnt take his own SAT?? Wow, I didnt know that."  Get real. He knew it all and most likely masterminded it. To believe anything else, you would have to be.....well......a Ky fan.

[MAL3]

This mentality of "let em play", whomever is the strongest and can push the other guy out rules is why I quit watching pro basketball, each year it seems the college game is becoming more and more this way. Tends to put a "skilled" player at a disadvantage. Hate to see it happening.

I agree with you. It's not basketball anymore. More like rugby.

[HOGGvol]

Are you talking about the play where Madden went down the left side of the lane, had ABSOLUTELY no chance to get that shot to the rim, and he got stuffed and fell down?  There was some contact down low, but it didn't impact the play...it was after the ball was blocked by someone's armpit.  There was NO WAY that shot was going anywhere but back at him. 

He's really good at times with drawing contact and getting fouls.  On that play, if it's the one you're speaking about, he threw up a prayer and it wasn't answered.  That's how I perceived it, and I absolutely despise KY and Calipari.

And for the record, I wish it wasn't biased at all.  I wish it was called even.  BUT...it isn't, and statistics show that it isn't.  There wasn't a call in that game that impacted anything.  We were never close enough for them to.  I can't recall any near comeback that was thwarted on a bad call.  They just played more physical on both ends, and hit shots.  We could come out inspired in the SECCG in the coming weeks and play the same way and nip them.  I won't hold my breath, but MUCH stranger things have happened. 

But rest assured, if we're close at the end, and there's a close call that could go either way....it won't go our way.  That's KY, and they're trying to go undefeated.  Do you REALLY think a ref is going to call a charge on a KY player in the last 20 seconds if we're up 2?  NOT A CHANCE.   

I was talking about the no call that drew a T on Anderson. Madden was hammered by TWO KY players and there was no call. For that matter, Harris was knocked to the ground early in the game and no there was no call. Did the player get a lot of ball on Harris? Yes, but he also fouled the crap out of Harris with his body. That no call hurt us badly as did a couple of others that weren't called when Qualls went inside and was fouled and they got dunks on the rebound. Meanwhile, KY enjoyed numerous "anticipation" foul calls against us.

We almost certainly would lose this game without the refs involvement given our play that day, but these untimely no-calls did thwart any hope we had of winning.

[urkillnmesmalls]

I was talking about the no call that drew a T on Anderson. Madden was hammered by TWO KY players and there was no call. For that matter, Harris was knocked to the ground early in the game and no there was no call. Did the player get a lot of ball on Harris? Yes, but he also fouled the crap out of Harris with his body. That no call hurt us badly as did a couple of others that weren't called when Qualls went inside and was fouled and they got dunks on the rebound. Meanwhile, KY enjoyed numerous "anticipation" foul calls against us.

We almost certainly would lose this game without the refs involvement given our play that day, but these untimely no-calls did thwart any hope we had of winning.

I get what you're saying, but we have different takes on it.  Harris fell because that was a hard block and his momentum was thwarted.  Yes...AFTER the defender got ball, there was some incidental arm contact, but I didn't see a bit of body contact other than Harris contacting the floor.  Would it have been called a foul on us at Rupp?  Probably so, but I can certainly understand the no call on that play.   

Also, the Madden play where MA blew up was the call I'm referring to.  He wasn't hammered by anyone.  He ran into those guys while trying to draw a foul.  The different was, they were big dudes and he bounced off like a pinball and the ball never even got out of his hands...insta-block.  Again, I see the no call there, but don't doubt that it might have been called if the shoe was on the other foot.

I still don't see that those called impacted the game.  The Florida call on the other hand...directly impacted the game, and while it was bad, I'm also aware that we've had some calls go our way in BWA this season, so you have to take some bad with the good.   

[hogsanity]

I agree with you. It's not basketball anymore. More like rugby.

Again this is where hog fans are hypocritical.  They want the hogs guards to be able to play physical because usually the hogs guards are more physical and grab & slap alot and gets lots of steals & cause turnovers.  But they do not want the opponents big men to be able to play physical because that is not the higs game down low.

[HOGGvol]

I get what you're saying, but we have different takes on it.  Harris fell because that was a hard block and his momentum was thwarted.  Yes...AFTER the defender got ball, there was some incidental arm contact, but I didn't see a bit of body contact other than Harris contacting the floor.  Would it have been called a foul on us at Rupp?  Probably so, but I can certainly understand the no call on that play.   

Also, the Madden play where MA blew up was the call I'm referring to.  He wasn't hammered by anyone.  He ran into those guys while trying to draw a foul.  The different was, they were big dudes and he bounced off like a pinball and the ball never even got out of his hands...insta-block.  Again, I see the no call there, but don't doubt that it might have been called if the shoe was on the other foot.

I still don't see that those called impacted the game.  The Florida call on the other hand...directly impacted the game, and while it was bad, I'm also aware that we've had some calls go our way in BWA this season, so you have to take some bad with the good.   

I don't disagree with a lot that you are saying (although I would say if we could see the replay on both of those plays we would find more than incidental contact). Where I disagree strongly is the impact of certain calls. Yes, in the Florida game you can point to a single game changing call. My argument is that certain calls (or no calls) during a big game like this are just as critical. The no call when Harris was fouled early in the game allowed KY to extend their lead early in the game and saved one of their bigs an early foul. The no calls on a couple of Qualls plays driving inside killed our comeback attempts and gave KY dunks on the other end. By the time Anderson got the T for the Madden take down (please rewatch this play if possible) it was already too late.

Again, I think we lose this game even with unbiased calling due to our shooting that day, but I think it would have been much closer if we had gotten a few of the close calls.

[PonderinHog]

I guess it's the difference between getting touched and getting hammered that pisses me off.

[Nipsey Mussle]

Unless it's egregious, I don't ever complain about the refs. There have been 3 instances where they have hosed us beyond belief in the last 2 seasons. Last year against UT, and of course this year against UF and OM. I know we've likely gotten the calls at home during the time period but I can't really remember a game where it was just completely unbalanced. Maybe UK last year?

[hogsanity]

I guess it's the difference between getting touched and getting hammered that pisses me off.

Yep. We want the hogs guards to be able to hack the ball loose but do not want body contact allowed when an opponent cleanly blocks the ball 1st.

Coaches have complained for three decades about Nolan and Mike's teams hacking slapping and mugging their guards.  Most of it just depends on the team you have as to what you want the refs to allow or call tightly. 

[hogpc]

The entire premise of your argument is without merit. We did not and would not get the majority of calls on the road and I don't expect to. What I was saying is that the timing of bad calls has a significant impact on the game. I never blamed the refs for this loss and went out of my way not to do that. However, that does not mean i cannot comment on what was bad about the officiating or the fact that certain calls have more impact than others and just counting the foul called does not imply fairness in officiating .

Also... nobody complains about the refs when they win do they? So that proves nothing.

I admit, and said in my post, you were more even handed in your complaints, my point is simply - grow a set and quit complaining.

[jfred59]

I am a huge UK fan. Having said that, the vast majority of UK fans respect the Arkansas teams, and consider it a huge rivalry. AR beat UK the prior 3 games in basketball, including one at Rupp. But, the AR fans always show class, unlike many SEC teams that throw bottles and racist chants at the UK players.
AR has a really good basketball team. Did UK get some home cooking? Absolutely! By my count, the number of bad calls would be AR 2-1. Two bad calls (or no-calls) by AR for every one bad call (or no call) against UK.
But that happens frequently in all of college basketball. Nobody wants to play at Bud-Walton arena. Why? Same reason. Home cooking. You can't have it both ways.

But for those fans that think that Cal cheats? Well, the NCAA made it clear that the violations at UMASS (Camby taking money from an agent) and Rose, at Memphis, supposedly having someone else take his SAT test were not tied to Cal. Rose was cleared to play by the NCAA, then later was decided they should have made him ineligible.
Please name me a coach/team in college basketball who is more closely scrutinized by the NCAA, SEC teams, or the media. There is no one.  Here is the UK compliance branch:

Kentucky Compliance Staff

University of Kentucky Compliance
Joe Craft Center - Room 231
338 Lexington Ave.
Lexington, KY 40506-0604

Phone (859) 257-8604 -
Fax (859) 323-4999

Name   Title   Phone   Email
Bell, Sandy   Executive Associate AD for Student Services   (859) 257-4081   sbell@uky.edu

Baker, Rachel   Senior Associate AD for Compliance   (859) 218-1464   rachel.baker@uky.edu

Butler, John   Assistant AD for Compliance   (859) 257-9784   butler@uky.edu

McAtee, Heather   Assistant AD for Academics & Eligibility   (859) 257-5475   heather.mcatee@uky.edu

Hillenberg, Ryne   Compliance Director   (859) 257-6482   r.hillenberg@uky.edu

Newsome, Jenna   Compliance Assistant   (859) 257-8604   jenna.newsome@uky.edu

Parsons, Candice   Compliance Intern   (859) 257-8604   

If any of you are AR fans who claim Cal cheats, please do all of us a favor and send your facts to someone above. Or, someone at the NCAA compliance branch. There is no coach or program that follows the rules more than UK. If you have evidence to the contrary, please notify the university/ncaa. Or else, shut your mouth.
Wildcat Larry

Please tell me what kind of Kentucky moonshine you are drinking?  Cal is well known as a cheater.  The NCAA could be presented with video, audio, photos and anything else and they would look the other way.  He is slime and everyone knows and admits it except you folks in KY.  Please remind how much you defended him when he leaves and a year or so after you get stripped of your championships he wins.

[The real Hogules]

Again this is where hog fans are hypocritical.  They want the hogs guards to be able to play physical because usually the hogs guards are more physical and grab & slap alot and gets lots of steals & cause turnovers.  But they do not want the opponents big men to be able to play physical because that is not the higs game down low.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about!
How about the play under the basket, on Arkansas' offensive end where a UK big man grabbed a rebound, then brought the ball down around his waist and was tied up be Beard. The official called Beard for a foul?
Also on made baskets we'd apply full court pressure and on almost every play, without fail the UK guard would shove the Arkansas defender away so he could receive the inbounds pass and I never saw it called.
UK out played us, but to say that the game was called fairly is just ridiculous.

[hogfan10]

Yet in many games this year hig fans have pointed at foul count and ft disparity as proof the refs were bad.

For decades basketball has let big men bang down low. Ky is full of big men who play physical ball. Virginia and gonzaga do as well as a few other teams.

What hog fans want is the refs to let the hog guards put their hands all over ball handlers but call it very tight on the opponents big men because the hogs physicality is out front with the guards not on the inside.

What I want is a fair and consistently officiated game. If our guards drive the lane get bumped, miss shot, or have it blocked; then I expect no foul when the same happens to our opponents guards who drive the lane with the same result.

Against A&M we blocked 12 shots, against Kent. we blocked 0. Part of that is Kent. is better than A&M, part of it is fouls going against us on scenarios similar to what I described in the paragraph above.

[Piggfoot]

About the game.
Basketball is a homecourt game especially in the SEC.
Arkansas could not buy a basket in the first half. They were Ofer from the three point line in the first half.
Kentucky was better. Period
SEC refs will not allow the hand checking on the road allowed at BWA.
Arkansas cannot penetrate and get fouled, make the basket, or dish against a Kentucky like team on the road. In order to win on the road the Hogs have to beat the Zone.
I could go on and on but the Hogs were beaten.

[hogsanity]

About the game.
Basketball is a homecourt game especially in the SEC.
Arkansas could not buy a basket in the first half. They were Ofer from the three point line in the first half.
Kentucky was better. Period
SEC refs will not allow the hand checking on the road allowed at BWA.
Arkansas cannot penetrate and get fouled, make the basket, or dish against a Kentucky like team on the road. In order to win on the road the Hogs have to beat the Zone.
I could go on and on but the Hogs were beaten.

Nope, they've convinced me ky was up 30+ at one point all because of the refs. Matter of fact they are right every game the hogs have ever lost was because of the refs.

[HOGGvol]

I admit, and said in my post, you were more even handed in your complaints, my point is simply - grow a set and quit complaining.

My point is, this thread was never intended to be a "we lost because of the refs" thread which is what you are implying that it is. Threads like these always seem to digress to one group of people saying "the refs cost us the game" and another group saying "quit whining." But, discussing the impact of the timing of some of the bad calls and no-calls is not the same thing as blaming the officials for a loss.

This thread was started in response to another thread where a poster stated that mathematics is all you need in order to determine whether a game was fairly called. I completely disagree with that premise because emotion and momentum are a huge part of the game. That is a very different topic than the typical "the refs caused us to lose" thread.

[troyer37]

I can't believe there is even a thread about this. We were out played out matched bottom line. We missed to many open threes and they played to good for us to have a chance. The only way for us to beat them if meet them again in the SEC tourney or NCAA tourney is for them to have an off night and us play out of our minds. They are just too good. The fact that there another thread about refs is ridiculous.

[troyer37]

Also we play a more aggressive style of basketball which in return leads to more fouls being called on us. Do i always agree with them no. The refs made no difference in this game though not one bit.

[Hogn1979]

Nope, they've convinced me ky was up 30+ at one point all because of the refs. Matter of fact they are right every game the hogs have ever lost was because of the refs.

Now you are just being asinine. I resent the fact that you call yourself a hog fan. Nobody has said that even if the game was called in favor of Arkansas that Kentucky wouldn't have won. What the OP was saying was that at the critical points in the game, the calls seemed to go 100% for Kentucky. I noticed this too. Then it seemed that once they were up by 31, suddenly we are the beneficiary of ticky tack fouls. I just would have liked to see it be a more competitive game without the help of the zebras.

[troyer37]

Now you are just being asinine. I resent the fact that you call yourself a hog fan. Nobody has said that even if the game was called in favor of Arkansas that Kentucky wouldn't have won. What the OP was saying was that at the critical points in the game, the calls seemed to go 100% for Kentucky. I noticed this too. Then it seemed that once they were up by 31, suddenly we are the beneficiary of ticky tack fouls. I just would have liked to see it be a more competitive game without the help of the zebras.

When we press we are going to get called with fouls that is the risk we take. As for as a competitive game there wasn't going to be one. They are much better then we are there are about 7 guys on that team that will get drafted when its all said and done right now we have one guy. We just need to realize they are much better there is a reason they are undefeated. I am not saying we can't beat them but its going to take a game like we played in the first half of the a&m game but for a full game and they are going to have to struggle a bit.

[hogsanity]

Now you are just being asinine. I resent the fact that you call yourself a hog fan. Nobody has said that even if the game was called in favor of Arkansas that Kentucky wouldn't have won. What the OP was saying was that at the critical points in the game, the calls seemed to go 100% for Kentucky. I noticed this too. Then it seemed that once they were up by 31, suddenly we are the beneficiary of ticky tack fouls. I just would have liked to see it be a more competitive game without the help of the zebras.

Go back and look at all the threads started after EVERY hog loss, and you will find more than one each time blaming the refs. Now, go look at other boards after the Hogs win and you will find threads blaming the refs for not calling fouls on our guards as they harass and put their hands all over the opponents.

What irks me is the disingenuous hogs fans who rail against referee inconsistency or "letting them play" when the whole premise of the Hogs defense is reliant upon the refs letting the hogs guards play the most physical game of any guards in the country.

But this is nothing new. For 30 years both Nolan and Mike coached teams have had problems when the refs call it tight out front, and in those instances it really does not matter how they call it on the inside, because the tight calls on the outside severely impact how they coach defense. 

By claiming that it seemed that in critical points the calls were almost 100% Ky is, in fact, blaming the refs for the outcome of the game. 

[troyer37]

I am hoping we get another shot at them in the SEC tourney its going to do nothing but make us better and prepare us more for the NCAA tournament. Now we need to take care of business and win these next two games and finish strong.

[minman]

The "no-call" that I came unglued on was the over-the-back no call on Cauley Stein in the first half.  We were keeping the game around 10 points and they missed a shot.  We had perfect block out position on everyone, and their big guy was clearly on our backs and caused us to knock it out.  It was also unclear as to whether or not he knocked it out or we did.  Regardless, it should have been our ball and a chance to cut it to single digits but instead, they get it under the basket and end up hitting a three.  It started their pull away from us.  Hacked me off!  My wife got mad at me cause I was yelling at the TV and she was like "it's just an out of bounds play."

[minman]

I can't believe there is even a thread about this. We were out played out matched bottom line. We missed to many open threes and they played to good for us to have a chance. The only way for us to beat them if meet them again in the SEC tourney or NCAA tourney is for them to have an off night and us play out of our minds. They are just too good. The fact that there another thread about refs is ridiculous.

That's why there is another thread about refs.  We were out matched and out played.  Nothing else to talk about but the refs-lol.