Thoughts on boosting attendance in hoops

[mizzouman]

Why not have a double header each night?  Have the women's game tip off at 6pm then the men's.  Or vice-versa depending on TV.

If a men's game is on TV at 6pm, then the women's game follows.  If the men's game on TV is at 8pm, then the women's start at like 5:30 or so.

That way, fans can get a two for one, less travel expenses, etc.

Crazy I know, but would something like this work?

[ShadowHawg]

At Mizzou you need to hire a competent coach. Here we just need to become a consistent tournament team.

[The_Iceman]

I watched the games at Georgia and at Ole Miss that started at 8pm (9pm eastern for Georgia). Those arena's were empty. Georgia is even a pretty good team, had entire sections in the 2nd level of thousands of seats just vacant. No more than 3000 actual attendance at each place.

It is the late start times. If you start a game at 8pm during the midweek, you cut down attendance. Don't start a game before 7:30pm, and that will help some.

[hogsanity]

I watched the games at Georgia and at Ole Miss that started at 8pm (9pm eastern for Georgia). Those arena's were empty. Georgia is even a pretty good team, had entire sections in the 2nd level of thousands of seats just vacant. No more than 3000 actual attendance at each place.

It is the late start times. If you start a game at 8pm during the midweek, you cut down attendance. Don't start a game before 7:30pm, and that will help some.

Attendance is down because many of the game are like the Hogs/A&M game, just flat out ugly. Wisc/Mich, both teams were still in the 30's at the 1st tv timeout of the 2nd half. Hard to believe with a 30 second shot clock, a 3 pt line, and seemingly an edless parade of ft's ( although I do not know the ft #'s from the Mich game ) that two teams cant put up more than 38 points in 24+ minutes. For most fans it is the same as having a football game that ends 13-10, it just does not make them want to go see it.

[azhog10]

Attendance is down because many of the game are like the Hogs/A&M game, just flat out ugly. Wisc/Mich, both teams were still in the 30's at the 1st tv timeout of the 2nd half. Hard to believe with a 30 second shot clock, a 3 pt line, and seemingly an edless parade of ft's ( although I do not know the ft #'s from the Mich game ) that two teams cant put up more than 38 points in 24+ minutes. For most fans it is the same as having a football game that ends 13-10, it just does not make them want to go see it.

But it's not the officiating right? We've shortened the clock and the games are still low scoring and slow. IT's been said by a lot of folks but the "hand check" rule or whatever you want to call it has killed basketball and it's "enjoyability" to watch.

I also disagree attendance is low bc it's "ugly" basketball. People don't attend due to start times, and the convenience of watching from home whenever they like. Get rid of the ability to watch on "replay" on watchespn and you might get a few more people to actually go to the games.

[hogsanity]

But it's not the officiating right? We've shortened the clock and the games are still low scoring and slow. IT's been said by a lot of folks but the "hand check" rule or whatever you want to call it has killed basketball and it's "enjoyability" to watch.

Here is the thing about the hand check, it is the rule, they have been told now for two off seasons it is a point of emphasis, they need to stop doing it. And, it is working. We have HS games in our association now that routinely never get to the bonus in either half. I worked a game last night with 3 fouls the entire 2nd half, and one of the teams pressed until midway through the 4th Q. They just do not put hands on anymore. But today's HS jrs and srs have been playing under that kid of officiating for 4 or 5 years now.

Players just cant shoot now. Last night the Hogs barley shot 40% irrc, and A&M was under 40%, and neither shot very well from the FT line. Get those shooting %'s up and that game goes from an ugly 62-60, to a fairly entertaining 76-72 or so type of game.

[ricepig]

Here is the thing about the hand check, it is the rule, they have been told now for two off seasons it is a point of emphasis, they need to stop doing it. And, it is working. We have HS games in our association now that routinely never get to the bonus in either half. I worked a game last night with 3 fouls the entire 2nd half, and one of the teams pressed until midway through the 4th Q. They just do not put hands on anymore. But today's HS jrs and srs have been playing under that kid of officiating for 4 or 5 years now.

Players just cant shoot now. Last night the Hogs barley shot 40% irrc, and A&M was under 40%, and neither shot very well from the FT line. Get those shooting %'s up and that game goes from an ugly 62-60, to a fairly entertaining 76-72 or so type of game.

No, these guys can shoot as well, if not better than before. The problem is the terrible shot selection.

[Wisco Pig]

Last night the Hogs barley shot 40% irrc,

I took a couple of barley shots myself during the second half.

[The_Iceman]

No, these guys can shoot as well, if not better than before. The problem is the terrible shot selection.

I think one factor is that there aren't not as many good ball handling point guards anymore that know how to distribute. And the ones that do usually don't last more than a season or two in college. Therefore, you don't get as many kick out open threes.

[hog of steele]

Make the tourney. Do it again next season. Keep it up and the house will be packed most nights. Simple as that.

[RaisinHog]

The TV is the main reason it's down across b-ball for example I live in foreman AR I go to a few games a year but am I gonna drive 4 hours or watch from my recliner on most games I choose the recliner

[PORKULATOR]

If you stop losing,  they will come.

Heard that somewhere.

[Porked Tongue]

More Title IX crap.

[King Kong]

How about we reduce the number of games

[root_hawg]

How about we upgrade our home schedule and win some of those better games instead of playing the blind sisters of the poor

[hogsanity]

How about we upgrade our home schedule and win some of those better games instead of playing the blind sisters of the poor

Hogs have never played a marquee ooc schedule. Outside of one or 2 big time games they always played Jackson st, montevallo type teams. Sure there was the home and home with UNLV in the early 90's, and some big matchups in the pre season nit or a tournament in hawaii, but they have rarely played anyone of note at home in the ooc, and definitely not multiple teams like that in one season.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Most Power 5 type schools play between 18-20 home games a year (7-9 conference games, probably 10-11 non-conference games).  That's 2 1/2 times the number of football games played at home.  When you consider the drive for many of the fans, the late start for most games played during the week, and the financial investment required, it's easy to see why we have lots of games with thousands of empty seats.  Even the most hard core fans often have to choose specific games they can make, and most of them will target games like Kentucky if given the chance.

[hogsanity]

Most Power 5 type schools play between 18-20 home games a year (7-9 conference games, probably 10-11 non-conference games).  That's 2 1/2 times the number of football games played at home.  When you consider the drive for many of the fans, the late start for most games played during the week, and the financial investment required, it's easy to see why we have lots of games with thousands of empty seats.  Even the most hard core fans often have to choose specific games they can make, and most of them will target games like Kentucky if given the chance.

Yep. When they opened BWA I was 24, newly married, no kids, and many games were NOT on tv, so I went to a ton of games, and, while attendance was much better than it is now, the place was not full for a 7pm Wed night game with Bethune-Cookman. I never paid anywhere near face value, sometimes got tickets for free, and I never had to sit in the upper deck either.

Now, I am 46, 2 kids, all the games are on TV, and I just have no desire to go on a Wed night to see them play anyone. I would not care if Duke, or KS, or UCLA came to town. 

[The_Iceman]

If you stop losing,  they will come.

Heard that somewhere.

I do not believe attendance will ever consistently be where it used to, no matter how much we will. If we do start winning again, I think we could see 15-18k for a Saturday SEC game, and maybe sellouts for weekend home games against Top 25 SEC opponents.

But for weekday games, I don't think we will ever see more than 10-12k for a game, even if we are winning. Too many factors keeping people at home.

[Hogimus Prime]

Its not one thing but several that have affected college basketball. Games start late in the middle of the week. Games are on tv.  People have jobs that have odd hours or have to work late.  Kids school stuff. Let's face it ticket prices can be high and some people can't afford or don't want to spend the money on basketball tickets when you can watch the games on tv. IMO a big reason is kids leaving school early.  When the kids stuck around for 2-4 years you became familar with them. When Arkansas joined the SEC there were guys like Shaq, Jamal Mashburn, Robert Horry, Sprewell and when they left you had Ron Mercer, the Tennesse teams of the late 90's, Tony Delk, Eric Dampier types and you wanted to see these guys in person, but now feels like all the big time talent goes to one or two schools.  Kids don't develop that cohesiveness of playing together for a couple years and to me that is effecting attendence. 

[azhog10]

Here is the thing about the hand check, it is the rule, they have been told now for two off seasons it is a point of emphasis, they need to stop doing it. And, it is working. We have HS games in our association now that routinely never get to the bonus in either half. I worked a game last night with 3 fouls the entire 2nd half, and one of the teams pressed until midway through the 4th Q. They just do not put hands on anymore. But today's HS jrs and srs have been playing under that kid of officiating for 4 or 5 years now.

Players just cant shoot now. Last night the Hogs barley shot 40% irrc, and A&M was under 40%, and neither shot very well from the FT line. Get those shooting %'s up and that game goes from an ugly 62-60, to a fairly entertaining 76-72 or so type of game.

LOL, players can shoot a lot better than back in the day. I see it every night as a high school basketball coach. You said the game is hard to watch, I said it's hard to watch due to the fact officials call fouls when no one has been impeded or gained an advantage WHICH IS STILL THE RULE! What's change is these new POE and refs taking them to the extreme. Yes it's been that way for two seasons, SO CHANGE IT! You complain about how sloppy it is, and then tell the players to adjust AFTER the officials have changed the rules. How about change the rules back and let teams play a bit. A foul is still a foul, but just bc you have a hand on a guys hip doesn't mean you should blow your whistle. IT can be done bc officials let guys in the post play much more aggressively and the rules aren't different for a guy in the post with the ball or a guy out on top with the ball. The only difference are the officials and what they "think" should be called bc of the position the player is on the floor.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

but now feels like all the big time talent goes to one or two schools.  Kids don't develop that cohesiveness of playing together for a couple years and to me that is effecting attendence.

It also affects quality of play.  We're seeing some really, really bad basketball at the D-1 level now.  Including lots of top 25 teams.

[hogsanity]

LOL, players can shoot a lot better than back in the day. I see it every night as a high school basketball coach. You said the game is hard to watch, I said it's hard to watch due to the fact officials call fouls when no one has been impeded or gained an advantage WHICH IS STILL THE RULE! What's change is these new POE and refs taking them to the extreme. Yes it's been that way for two seasons, SO CHANGE IT! You complain about how sloppy it is, and then tell the players to adjust AFTER the officials have changed the rules. How about change the rules back and let teams play a bit. A foul is still a foul, but just bc you have a hand on a guys hip doesn't mean you should blow your whistle. IT can be done bc officials let guys in the post play much more aggressively and the rules aren't different for a guy in the post with the ball or a guy out on top with the ball. The only difference are the officials and what they "think" should be called bc of the position the player is on the floor.

You funny. Every game I do every coach wants every little touch called when his/her team has the ball. I'd estimate 8-% of the calls in basketball are somewhat subjective. Very few fouls are just obvious to everyone.

Also, the officials do not change the rules, we just call the rues as they are passed by the governing bodies. But as a coach you already know that.

I get griped at because I do not call enough. I try my best to apply the advantage gained rule, but every time I work with one of our association leaders they tell me I have to call more hands stuff out top. Let them touch them once and then blow the whistle if they do it again. So what is a ref supposed to do, make the assignor mad so he does not get any more games?

And I fully realize HS ball is not college ball.

[razoredge178]

Why not have a double header each night?  Have the women's game tip off at 6pm then the men's.  Or vice-versa depending on TV.

If a men's game is on TV at 6pm, then the women's game follows.  If the men's game on TV is at 8pm, then the women's start at like 5:30 or so.

That way, fans can get a two for one, less travel expenses, etc.

Crazy I know, but would something like this work?

This concept can't work at the college level b/c of TV/radio/various other media restrictions. Even if only 1 in 100, you can't have one game lapse into the other's scheduled time.

Love the idea- just doesn't work at the D1 level.

[NWAHog479]

The Razorbacks have been in the top 30 nationally every year since Bud Walton Arena opened in 1993. 18/23 years we have finished top 15 in attendance. Attendance is down by our standard, but with the ability to stream or watch on the SEC Network almost every single night, I get it. But, there's no better place to catch a game than Bud Walton Arena. I'm still there every game and I wish everybody else would show up. But, if you don't want to be there to cheer on the Hogs, then stay at home on your couch and don't hop on the bandwagon when we make the tourney the next three years.

[hoghappy]

The students need to be encouraged to attend more games. A rowdy BIG student section and a Robken style pep band would be a great stimulus.

[hogsanity]

Increasing attendance CONSISTENTLY would take 3 things:

1- fewer tv games. When the only way to see them play most of the time was to be there, heck yea, I went ALOT

2- lower ticket prices.

3- back to the old schedule times - 7pm on a weeknight 2pm or 7pm on weekends.

And none of that is going to happen.

[parallaxpig]

I took a couple of barley shots myself during the second half.

Jell-O shots prob bring out a lot more students. 

[HogAlum99]

Increasing attendance CONSISTENTLY would take 3 things:

1- fewer tv games. When the only way to see them play most of the time was to be there, heck yea, I went ALOT

2- lower ticket prices.

3- back to the old schedule times - 7pm on a weeknight 2pm or 7pm on weekends.

And none of that is going to happen.

I think the main point is lowering the ticket prices.  If the team is winning year in year out, $25 a pop is not too bad, but when the team is just marginal and inconsistent and you're paying for two to four tickets, it's just not worth it.  Even though it will never happen (especially under Long), tickets for basketball should be in the $10-15 range.  I don't agree with the late start times.  When I was there in the mid to late 90's, the late games were the ESPN games (usually Tuesday night) that actually started at 8:30! Those games were the loudest and rowdiest every week and the arena was packed!

[realistichog]

Easy to answer this one. Better coach, better players and better basketball in that order.

[The real Hogules]

Lower ticket prices for unsold tickets a couple of days before each home game?

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Watching UCLA-Arizona. Fun to watch. If they had SEC officials, 1/2 the players would have fouled out by now.

[Atlhogfan1]

Watching UCLA-Arizona. Fun to watch. If they had SEC officials, 1/2 the players would have fouled out by now.

Style of play and two quality teams.  Neither foul much comparatively.  Louisville - FSU had 60 FTAs.  Quality teams but also physical teams and officials wanted to control it.  SEC has too many coaches willing to play those types of games devolving into FT contests and lack of quality teams.  Bad combo for entertaining flowing basketball. 


Better product would help our attendance. 

[Pig Worshipper]

Obviously, you have to give folks several reasons to want to be there as paying customers. Yes, the Robken-style pep band would be nice but hard to replicate. Making it into a total EXPERIENCE might help somewhat.

Of course the main thing is winning. With Nolan, you could count on some of his teams to absolutely blow teams out of the gym with that incredible forty minutes of hell. But also, Nolan himself was very entertaining. Just watching him prowl the sidelines was a show all in itself. Mike's personality, as everyone knows, is quite different and much less colorful.

Eddie Sutton's defenses were great to watch and his teams so well-coached it was always interesting. Plus, back in SWC days, he had epic battles with Texas and Houston. Those were RIVALS. We don't have any rivals in the SEC like those rivals were. Yes, Kentucky was a rival, not so much now because we've been a non-entity for so long. And, no offense to Kentucky, but they have no football program but, back in the old SWC, both Houston, and especially Texas were good at football. When they came to town, there was "rivalry carryover" from football season. There was blood, sweat and tears invested in beating the hell out of them. And their head coaches were both personalities, as was Sutton, and we know Nolan never backed down.

Even Lanny Van Eman(sp) teams had a character which Mike's lack. You would watch to see how Martin Terry or Dean Tolson were going to do and Coach looked a bit like a used car salesman - again, a colorful character. Of course, I was a terrible basketball geek in those days.

[MountieDawg]

But it's not the officiating right? We've shortened the clock and the games are still low scoring and slow. IT's been said by a lot of folks but the "hand check" rule or whatever you want to call it has killed basketball and it's "enjoyability" to watch.

I also disagree attendance is low bc it's "ugly" basketball. People don't attend due to start times, and the convenience of watching from home whenever they like. Get rid of the ability to watch on "replay" on watchespn and you might get a few more people to actually go to the games.

It's more about the product on the court, if they were in the Top 20 people would be there for 10 pm games

[Porked Tongue]

Discounting tickets cannibalizes others.  I get the idea but the big picture will negatively influence major season ticket holders.

[HogBreath]

Boosting attendance is easy....just get more people to come to the games.

[Cornfed Pig]

free booz

[(notOM)Rebel123]

25 bucks a head is pretty steep to watch a basketball game. Plus, the game today just sucks. Whistle, timeout, whistle, tv timeout. Whistle, whistle, whistle, timeout, whistle, tv timeout. Review. Whistle, tv timeout.

This^^^

[FineAsSwine]

Boosting attendance is easy....just get more people to come to the games.

they came tonight.

[Porked Tongue]

they came tonight.

Free pizza for students and they packed it.

[Hogwild]

At least we aren't Mizzzou

[3of5-2]

Midget wrestling would help a lot.

[WorfHog]

At least we aren't Mizzzou

LOL! 17,000 at Bud Walton tonight

[Atlhogfan1]

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/stats/mbb/2016-17/AR19.pdf

16000 good crowd

Big minutes for Beard and Barford. 

[PonderinHog]

Midget Hot chicks mud wrestling would help a lot.

I concur.

[Cornfed Pig]

25 bucks a head is pretty steep to watch a basketball game. Plus, the game today just sucks. Whistle, timeout, whistle, tv timeout. Whistle, whistle, whistle, timeout, whistle, tv timeout. Review. Whistle, tv timeout.

This exactly. I don't understand from a marketing standpoint why you want slow the game down.

[Dominicanhog]

the game today just sucks. Whistle, timeout, whistle, tv timeout. Whistle, whistle, whistle, timeout, whistle, tv timeout. Review. Whistle, tv timeout.

sad but true... and that's just the first half...

[factchecker]

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/stats/mbb/2016-17/AR19.pdf

16000 good crowd

Big minutes for Beard and Barford.

I thought it was at least 16k.  I guess they need to bring the free ladder man back. 

Great game.  It was awesome seeing Omar with the gold and Moses break 1000.

GO HOGS!

[poloprince]

Why?  The women's program is in shambles and JD will never get another commit from a girls hoops player in central Arkansas.