the 4 spot

[tconey1]

Can anyone tell me what our starting 4 spot brings to the team.  I have tried all year to see what he does good and I cant come up with anything positive.  You would think with his size, he could rebound but nope! CMA sees something I guess but 17 games is a pretty good sample size for me to see and I just dont get it.

[rzrbackramsfan]

Can anyone tell me what our starting 4 spot brings to the team.  I have tried all year to see what he does good and I cant come up with anything positive.  You would think with his size, he could rebound but nope! CMA sees something I guess but 17 games is a pretty good sample size for me to see and I just dont get it.

Some decent defense and rebounding. A lot left to be desired though. We really really need someone to step up at the four whether that be cook, Thomas, bailey, hazen  or thompson

[BigoBoys]

No 4.  Our 4 is doing his best to play a 5. 

[TheRazorback500]

He fouls too much.

[rude1]

He brings five fouls, and if you aren't careful he will use them up real fast. Don't understand the surprise though, it wasn't like he was doing a lot when we got him from Co.

[pigsooie1000]

same as last few years, he brings little but the players behind him bring even less. I put this in another thread but will post here as it's more relevant

the span where we were on a big run, scoring easy buckets every possession, and then suddenly ground to a halt with 4 quick midrange Js from Kingsley-Kinsgley-Thomas-Thompson was infuriating. none were in rhythm. so frustrating to have undersized bigs who also can't shoot. 6-8 or shorter guys with no handle or shot and no huge edge in strength/boards should not be recruited at all anymore. Cook-Thomas-Thompson all kill us on offense and aren't good at defense, it's 3 scholarships that combine for 1 very below-average player. if we got a 6-6 3 point shooter who could guard a 6-4 guy mediocrely and a 6-11 guy who is a decent defender/rebounder instead of those 3, we'd be a 3-4 seed. I don't get why we always have so many of that type of player (Miles another one) who can't contribute against big strong teams and also can't help us against small teams offensively really.

[PonderinHog]

No 4.  Our 4 is doing his best to play a 5.

Moses at the top and Trey down low.  I think it would help both of them.  Not perfect but better than our alternatives.  We're going to A & M Tuesday.  Moses is going to need some help in the front court. 

[HogBreath]

Moses at the top and Trey down low.  I think it would help both of them.  Not perfect but better than our alternatives.  We're going to A & M Tuesday.  Moses is going to need some help in the front court. 

That does seem like the better solution.

[rude1]

Moses at the top and Trey down low.  I think it would help both of them.  Not perfect but better than our alternatives.  We're going to A & M Tuesday.  Moses is going to need some help in the front court. 

Trey would be fouled out before you know it, then who do you rest Moses with? Trey 3 fouls in 16 minutes. He is a fouling machine, and most of them are needless fouls.

[jdunhog]

I think Thompson should start!

[PonderinHog]

That does seem like the better solution.

There are pros and cons, but sometimes you gotta say WTH and take a chance.  Beard is    the only guy we have that remotely resembles a PG, if he'll distribute.  Macon and Barford can score from just about anywhere, especially the free throw line.  Then start working other players in depending on who gets into foul trouble or who needs a breather. 

[PonderinHog]

Trey would be fouled out before you know it, then who do you rest Moses with? Trey 3 fouls in 16 minutes. He is a fouling machine, and most of them are needless fouls.

I said there were cons.     Honestly, I think he might foul less if he had some better help (Moses) out there with him.

[rude1]

There are pros and cons, but sometimes you gotta say WTH and take a chance.  Beard is    the only guy we have that remotely resembles a PG, if he'll distribute.  Macon and Barford can score from just about anywhere, especially the free throw line.  Then start working other players in depending on who gets into foul trouble or who needs a breather. 

Beard resembles a pg in stature only. He is nothing close to a point guard, he is a shooting guard in a pg body is what he is. 3 assists to 4 to, tonight in 27 minutes.

[PonderinHog]

Beard resembles a pg in stature only. He is nothing close to a point guard, he is a shooting guard in a pg body is what he is. 3 assists to 4 to, tonight in 27 minutes.

Beard would definitely have to alter his game to help the team.

[Youngsta71701]

Seems like we played pretty good with Kingsley and Thompson on the floor at the same time. Although it was a small sample size.

[Youngsta71701]

Beard resembles a pg in stature only. He is nothing close to a point guard, he is a shooting guard in a pg body is what he is. 3 assists to 4 to, tonight in 27 minutes.

Two of those turnovers were simple handoffs that he fumbled.

[rude1]

Two of those turnovers were simple handoffs that he fumbled.

yeah those are turn overs too.

[Youngsta71701]

yeah those are turn overs too.

Duh, I was just pointing out how careless that is. Seems like he wasn't all the way focused.

[26.2Hog]

Beard resembles a pg in stature only. He is nothing close to a point guard, he is a shooting guard in a pg body is what he is. 3 assists to 4 to, tonight in 27 minutes.

Spot on.  We don't have a point guard and Beard should be filling that role. Someone needs to teach that to him.  You know, like a coach.  Sigh.

[BigoBoys]

Moses at the top and Trey down low.  I think it would help both of them.  Not perfect but better than our alternatives.  We're going to A & M Tuesday.  Moses is going to need some help in the front court. 

Big 10-4

[Youngsta71701]

Spot on.  We don't have a point guard and Beard should be filling that role. Someone needs to teach that to him.  You know, like a coach.  Sigh.

I'm seriously starting to wonder if some of you have a clue about basketball. You can't teach a scorer how to be a point guard. That's just like telling a scorer not to score. You either have point guard ways or you don't. He has a few point guard ways but his first instinct is to score.

[Jonteviosk]

I understand everyones frustration but looking at his season Dustin has been productive in 11 games. Needs to be a little more consistent and foul a lot less. Better than anything we had last year.

[Jonteviosk]

I'm seriously starting to wonder if some of you have a clue about basketball. You can't teach a scorer how to be a point guard. That's just like telling a scorer not to score. You either have point guard ways or you don't. He has a few point guard ways but his first instinct is to score.

That's not always the truth for 2.5 years Madden was the same way then the second half of conf play his jr year a lightbulb clicked on and he learned how to distribute. I know its more the exception than the rule.

[PonderinHog]

I'm seriously starting to wonder if some of you have a clue about basketball. You can't teach a scorer how to be a point guard. That's just like telling a scorer not to score. You either have point guard ways or you don't. He has a few point guard ways but his first instinct is to score.

I don't think anyone's asking him to not score.  Some of us want him to look to distribute, first.  He'll still get his points. 

[The_Iceman]

Cook/Thomas/Bailey/Hazen combined tonight for:

3 points and 5 rebounds.

Not good enough.

[PonderinHog]

Cook/Thomas/Bailey/Hazen combined tonight for:

3 points and 5 rebounds.

Not good enough.

How many minutes?  Do I want to know?   

[Jonteviosk]

Cook/Thomas/Bailey/Hazen combined tonight for:

3 points and 5 rebounds.

Not good enough.

Noones arguing that I was just saying Thomas has had 8 games with 5 or more boards and 12 games with 5 or more points. If he would consistently give us 7 pts 5-6 reb and not foul as much we would be fine.

[rzrbackramsfan]

Bailey should get more minutes too.

[Jonteviosk]

Heres a question some ppl complaining about trey... he Plays 11 min a game if he played double that he would avg 5.2 pts 6.2 reb 2.6 asst 1.9 bl and shooting  .542 fg% and .733 ft % wouldn't we all accept that production at the 4?

[Jonteviosk]

Bailey should get more minutes too.

yeah why not. But over Arlando not Dustin. Thomas has been solid most games you look at his game by game numbers. Trey and Adrio should both see more min.

starters
F-Dustin Thomas
C-Moses Kingsley
G-Darryl Macon
G-Jaylen Barford
G-Anton Beard

bench
F-Adrio Bailey
C-Trey Thompson
G-C J Jones
G- Dusty Hannahs
G-Manny Watkins

should be rotation going forward

[rzrbackramsfan]

yeah why not. But over Arlando not Dustin. Thomas has been solid most games you look at his game by game numbers. Trey and Adrio should both see more min.

I know he had a decent game against Minnesota and Kentucky but Arlando has outplayed DT at times.  Are dt's stats being weighted up based on non con games?  He's probably our best four outside of Thomson but not by much.

[HogBreath]

I said there were cons.     Honestly, I think he might foul less if he had some better help (Moses) out there with him.

And if he gets in to foul trouble, then play Cook or Thomas.  I wouldn't not play him because he might get in to foul trouble.  He does have some flashes showing much potential.

[hogwood]

Can anyone tell me what our starting 4 spot brings to the team.  I have tried all year to see what he does good and I cant come up with anything positive.  You would think with his size, he could rebound but nope! CMA sees something I guess but 17 games is a pretty good sample size for me to see and I just dont get it.

The problem is we don't have a 4 and are playing CF's instead. If you want a 4 in the starting lineup we need to start TT and MK.

[Youngsta71701]

I don't think anyone's asking him to not score.  Some of us want him to look to distribute, first.  He'll still get his points.

I agree. But you have to be careful with this. You don't want him to change his game. You just want him to adjust it for the betterment of the team.

[PonderinHog]

I agree. But you have to be careful with this. You don't want him to change his game. You just want him to adjust it for the betterment of the team.

Actually, I kinda do want him to change his game, depending on the competition.  He's going to get his stuff rejected against some teams and we'll be better served if he dishes off instead in some of these situations.

[JayBell]

Anderson wants his 4 player to be a glorified 3.  Does nobody remember Alandise Harris?  He was a 6'6" beefed up dude who shot 3-pointers and averaged just over 3 rebounds per game.  The 4 spot is routinely the most significant weakness for Arkansas because Anderson refuses to play a true post player there.  He also refuses to adapt his system to the best personnel, which might include a fourth guard more often.  Thomas is easily the second-best fit for that role in that system during Anderson's tenure after Coty Clarke.  Cook and Bailey's combined production is extremely similar to Thomas' numbers.

They give Anderson exactly what he wants out of the position, and that's the problem.  Anderson sacrifices a fifth quality starter for the sake of always strictly adhering to his system.  For years I had Anderson fans try to argue that Portis and Kingsley were just incapable of playing on the court together.  It makes as little sense now as it did back then.

[JayBell]

Beard resembles a pg in stature only. He is nothing close to a point guard, he is a shooting guard in a pg body is what he is. 3 assists to 4 to, tonight in 27 minutes.

Beard only averaged 1.5 assists per game two years ago, but his role in the offense as the point guard is what helped that team find some consistency.  He was seventh on the team in shots attempted that season.  This year he's fifth, by some distance behind the other three guards and Kingsley.  He facilitates the offense.

You need to look a little bit deeper than assist numbers to declare what a true point guard does.

[JayBell]

Heres a question some ppl complaining about trey... he Plays 11 min a game if he played double that he would avg 5.2 pts 6.2 reb 2.6 asst 1.9 bl and shooting  .542 fg% and .733 ft % wouldn't we all accept that production at the 4?

Thompson is easily the best option to play in the post with Kingsley, but it just won't happen.  Anderson refused to play Portis and Kingsley together when he had Thompson as a freshman on the bench who could have spelled at the 5 to give them a break at times.  Anderson is nothing if not unendingly stubborn.  He hasn't changed anything in six years.  Don't expect it to happen now.

[ballinhog]

One thing I miss about Nolan is how he knew how to push buttons with guys. Our 4 spot is a perfect position to give an example of what I mean by that.

Our 4 spot has for the most part been pretty subpar all year long and in Nolans "glory days" he would dig to the last guy on the bench if he had to and there were times that moves like this would be a major spark to sometimes turn around a season. Like Blake Eddins. He was a guy at one time that barely played and suddenly finds himself starting. And he brought great energy to the team and crowd. I believe if Nolan was coaching this team he would give someone like Hazen a starting  spot some random game and who knows.

That's what Mike doesn't have, the ability to keep pushing buttons all the way thru the roster. I think he should give Hazen a shot. You never know at the very least he may come out and get 7-8 rebounds for you and get the team energized.

[The_Iceman]

The perfect 4 for this team right now would be Marshawn Powell. Undersized, but can handle the ball, shoot it out to the 3 PT line, and is a playmaker.

[parallaxpig]

Is their a true 4 in next years recruiting class..Darious Hall?

[ballinhog]

Hall is not a true 4 but he would be a good fit for the position on our team, if Mike makes to next year lol

He has long arms and he's pretty strong as well. Plus he would be an exceptional ball handler for a 3 or 4. I would like Gafford and Thompson to start together but I know Mike would never do that. Like he will never start Thompson with Kingsley even tho it seems to be our best combo inside this year

[hogwood]

Anderson wants his 4 player to be a glorified 3.  Does nobody remember Alandise Harris?  He was a 6'6" beefed up dude who shot 3-pointers and averaged just over 3 rebounds per game.  The 4 spot is routinely the most significant weakness for Arkansas because Anderson refuses to play a true post player there.  He also refuses to adapt his system to the best personnel, which might include a fourth guard more often.  Thomas is easily the second-best fit for that role in that system during Anderson's tenure after Coty Clarke.  Cook and Bailey's combined production is extremely similar to Thomas' numbers.

They give Anderson exactly what he wants out of the position, and that's the problem.  Anderson sacrifices a fifth quality starter for the sake of always strictly adhering to his system.  For years I had Anderson fans try to argue that Portis and Kingsley were just incapable of playing on the court together.  It makes as little sense now as it did back then.

Does he really want that? I don't think so. What do you think he intended on doing with guys he recruited heavily like Jordan Mickey, Ted Kapita, Malik Dime, Tyler Cook,  or Victor Enoh? He wants to have real big men, and more than just 2 on a team at one time - where he is forced to allocate their minutes together sparingly because he needs one on the floor at all times. He just hasn't been able to get those guys due to shortcomings in recruiting.

[hogwood]

Hall is not a true 4 but he would be a good fit for the position on our team, if Mike makes to next year lol

He has long arms and he's pretty strong as well. Plus he would be an exceptional ball handler for a 3 or 4. I would like Gafford and Thompson to start together but I know Mike would never do that. Like he will never start Thompson with Kingsley even tho it seems to be our best combo inside this year

He can't do that. There is no backup center then. I think he would do it if he had the personnel.

[parallaxpig]

He can't do that. There is no backup center then. I think he would do it if he had the personnel.

Don't think MA can use a true center with Kaos offense he runs........

[rude1]

Beard only averaged 1.5 assists per game two years ago, but his role in the offense as the point guard is what helped that team find some consistency.  He was seventh on the team in shots attempted that season.  This year he's fifth, by some distance behind the other three guards and Kingsley.  He facilitates the offense.

You need to look a little bit deeper than assist numbers to declare what a true point guard does.

Ummm No. He isn't a point guard by any definition of word, he averages a little over 2 assists a game, I wouldn't call that facilitating the offense.

[parallaxpig]

Jimmy Whitt was supposed to be that point guard but .....

[Hou-Hog]

Cook

[Jonteviosk]

Jimmy Whitt was supposed to be that point guard but .....

I would remind you that no one forced Jimmy out...He was getting plenty of pt as a freshman but because he was inferior to Durham last year and not even as good as Beard he got butt hurt and decided to crawl off somewhere else instead of trying to earn the PG spot. That was on him not Mike.

[parallaxpig]

I would remind you that no one forced Jimmy out...He was getting plenty of pt as a freshman but because he was inferior to Durham last year and not even as good as Beard he got butt hurt and decided to crawl off somewhere else instead of trying to earn the PG spot. That was on him not Mike.

Probably got tired of the groans from the crowd every time he took an outside shot.