Eddie Sutton

[hogfan10]

I can see that you don't know what irony means.

I can see that you don't know what irony means.

Or, possibly you don't.
The irony is that someone who has falsely smeared a university and individuals, is being falsely smeared.

[FineAsSwine]

Or, possibly you don't.
The irony is that someone who has falsely smeared a university and individuals, is being falsely smeared.

But it wasn't false though and even the federal judge who heard the case said that. Basically, the case was won by the school on a procedural issue and not because the facts were not there to support Nolans claims.

When Nolan signed his new contract, it prevented him from using the things that had happened up to that point of him signing the contract and therefore, he was unable to use those allegations in support of his case.

[hogfan10]

But it wasn't false though and even the federal judge who heard the case said that. Basically, the case was won by the school on a procedural issue and not because the facts were not there to support Nolans claims.

When Nolan signed his new contract, it prevented him from using the things that had happened up to that point of him signing the contract and therefore, he was unable to use those allegations in support of his case.

By NR signing a new contract he was accepting a work place environment that he would later claim to be unacceptable all along, why would he do that. He was in his 60's, he was a millionaire, he was a HOF coach; he had options that most people don't have. He could retire or he could take another job, he had nothing left to prove.
All Frank Broyles and the University of Arkansas did for NR was give him the opportunity to become a household name (which he became), become a millionaire (top 5 salary in mid 90's), gave him the opportunity to be associate AD (an opportunity that NR poo poo'd on), and to become the FIRST African American head coach of a major conference in the south. Hell, FB wasn't even his superior the last 5/6 years (if not more) of his employment.
NR was perfectly fine with the UofA and his superiors for many years (turned down the NBA more than once), until his teams could no longer maintain the successes of the early/mid 90's.
NR couldn't accept that in his final years his teams lack of success was on him, so he had to find a scapegoat.
NR was a great coach (and I honestly think that he is a nice man), and I loved almost every minute of his time as the HOGS coach. But, although he took us to heights we'd never seen before (and may not ever see again, with the exception of track), he also pretty much single handily burned it all down. He basically destroyed everything he'd spent 17 (?) years building, to try and cover for the fact that he was just coasting the last 4/5 years.

[deserthog]

By NR signing a new contract he was accepting a work place environment that he would later claim to be unacceptable all along, why would he do that. He was in his 60's, he was a millionaire, he was a HOF coach; he had options that most people don't have. He could retire or he could take another job, he had nothing left to prove.
All Frank Broyles and the University of Arkansas did for NR was give him the opportunity to become a household name (which he became), become a millionaire (top 5 salary in mid 90's), gave him the opportunity to be associate AD (an opportunity that NR poo poo'd on), and to become the FIRST African American head coach of a major conference in the south. Hell, FB wasn't even his superior the last 5/6 years (if not more) of his employment.
NR was perfectly fine with the UofA and his superiors for many years (turned down the NBA more than once), until his teams could no longer maintain the successes of the early/mid 90's.
NR couldn't accept that in his final years his teams lack of success was on him, so he had to find a scapegoat.
NR was a great coach (and I honestly think that he is a nice man), and I loved almost every minute of his time as the HOGS coach. But, although he took us to heights we'd never seen before (and may not ever see again, with the exception of track), he also pretty much single handily burned it all down. He basically destroyed everything he'd spent 17 (?) years building, to try and cover for the fact that he was just coasting the last 4/5 years.

Well said. I feel the same and couldn't have said it better. Bravo!

[ShadowHawg]

By NR signing a new contract he was accepting a work place environment that he would later claim to be unacceptable all along, why would he do that. He was in his 60's, he was a millionaire, he was a HOF coach; he had options that most people don't have. He could retire or he could take another job, he had nothing left to prove.

He has explained and explained his love for the Hog nation. He loved the fanbase, period. He still lives in Fayetteville as proof of that.

As a fan, you should have the utmost respect for that from him. He did it in part for folks like you. It's time you quit dogging him and just say thanks.

[Dominicanhog]

He has explained and explained his love for the Hog nation. He loved the fanbase, period. He still lives in Fayetteville as proof of that.

As a fan, you should have the utmost respect for that from him. He did it in part for folks like you. It's time you quit dogging him and just say thanks.

++++

[hogfan10]

He has explained and explained his love for the Hog nation. He loved the fanbase, period. He still lives in Fayetteville as proof of that.

As a fan, you should have the utmost respect for that from him. He did it in part for folks like you. It's time you quit dogging him and just say thanks.

He did what for the fans, burn the program down?
I don't believe I dogged him, I gave him plenty of respect for his accomplishments at the UofA.
The thing is; many aging, legendary coaches coast in their final years; living off of prior successes.
Some retire, some move on to another school, some get fired. Few have that "special" card in their deck, that they can play like NR did.

[FineAsSwine]

He did what for the fans, burn the program down?
I don't believe I dogged him, I gave him plenty of respect for his accomplishments at the UofA.
The thing is; many aging, legendary coaches coast in their final years; living off of prior successes.
Some retire, some move on to another school, some get fired. Few have that "special" card in their deck, that they can play like NR did.

So the administration and Broyles are blameless in everything that transpired with Nolan?

[Dominicanhog]

He did what for the fans, burn the program down?
I don't believe I dogged him, I gave him plenty of respect for his accomplishments at the UofA.
The thing is; many aging, legendary coaches coast in their final years; living off of prior successes.
Some retire, some move on to another school, some get fired. Few have that "special" card in their deck, that they can play like NR did.

Two of those years the NCAA screwed us.. it has a lasting effect.. He had signed Idguodla and McBride was on his radar.. he was rebuilding for another run..he would have signed Conley,  maybe Oden.. he already had Sullinger and his little brother might have followed.

[hogfan10]

So the administration and Broyles are blameless in everything that transpired with Nolan?

Did I say that. I'm sure NR was frustrated with the admins being frustrated with the programs decline. Just as many coaches here before him became frustrated with the admins.
Two things though:
1. At NR request he no longer answered to Broyles, and didn't for several years.
2. If FB is a racist (per NR complaint), how do you reconcile the fact that FB hired NR to begin with.           
    That just isn't something that I see a racist doing.

[Dominicanhog]

Did I say that. I'm sure NR was frustrated with the admins being frustrated with the programs decline. Just as many coaches here before him became frustrated with the admins.
Two things though:
1. At NR request he no longer answered to Broyles, and didn't for several years.
2. If FB is a racist (per NR complaint), how do you reconcile the fact that FB hired NR to begin with.           
    That just isn't something that I see a racist doing.

Didn't he try to hire a couple before Nolan, just got turned down.. after Holtz  and Kenny nobody wanted to work for Frank..

[hogfan10]

Two of those years the NCAA screwed us.. it has a lasting effect.. He had signed Idguodla and McBride was on his radar.. he was rebuilding for another run..he would have signed Conley,  maybe Oden.. he already had Sullinger and his little brother might have followed.

I agree the NCAA did us wrong, and maybe we get those guys maybe we don't. Doesn't change what he did to destroy the program after he was let go.
Also, you notice a trend with all those recruits you mentioned? Not familiar with McBride (I've slept since then), but the rest were all connected. Didn't really have to put forth much effort to get a foot in the door.

[ShadowHawg]

Did I say that. I'm sure NR was frustrated with the admins being frustrated with the programs decline. Just as many coaches here before him became frustrated with the admins.
Two things though:
1. At NR request he no longer answered to Broyles, and didn't for several years.
2. If FB is a racist (per NR complaint), how do you reconcile the fact that FB hired NR to begin with.           
    That just isn't something that I see a racist doing.

You need to read the account of the first black football player at Arkansas and then try to make your assertion. Not to mention Broyles was a member at Augusta while they didn't allow blacks to join. Lot of racism in Broyles background, heck it is a matter of public record that Broyles referred to Nolan as that N......

Nolan was not the first choice here. I believe he was the third behind Massimino and a no name. The thinking at the time was that a black coach would recruit better like Thompson at Georgetown also.

[hogfan10]

Didn't he try to hire a couple before Nolan, just got turned down.. after Holtz  and Kenny nobody wanted to work for Frank..

Rollie Massimino (sp?) had just won the NCAA, and turned us down. Not sure how offering another or maybe two others b/4 offering NR makes him a racist. I'm sure there were some white coaches out there willing to come if they had been offered.

[Dominicanhog]

I agree the NCAA did us wrong, and maybe we get those guys maybe we don't. Doesn't change what he did to destroy the program after he was let go.
Also, you notice a trend with all those recruits you mentioned? Not familiar with McBride (I've slept since then), but the rest were all connected. Didn't really have to put forth much effort to get a foot in the door.

lost those connections when we lost Nolan.. All those guys played in the NBA and had great college careers .... Nolan may have poured gas on the flames, but Frank lite the match..

not sure Andre was a connection or McBride...

[ShadowHawg]

Rollie Massimino (sp?) had just won the NCAA, and turned us down. Not sure how offering another or maybe two others b/4 offering NR makes him a racist. I'm sure there were some white coaches out there willing to come if they had been offered.

That isn't proof of racism anymore than hiring NR was proof of not being a racist. That was the point.

[hogfan10]

You need to read the account of the first black football player at Arkansas and then try to make your assertion. Not to mention Broyles was a member at Augusta while they didn't allow blacks to join. Lot of racism in Broyles background, heck it is a matter of public record that Broyles referred to Nolan as that N......

Nolan was not the first choice here. I believe he was the third behind Massimino and a no name. The thinking at the time was that a black coach would recruit better like Thompson at Georgetown also.

Not sure what Augusta and their policies has to do with FB. He probably has eaten at an all white lunch counter, used an all white bathroom, drank out of an all white water fountain. What's your point; should he have gone hungry, held it, and not quenched his thirst. A lot of good people have been members of country clubs, civic organizations, social groups, etc, etc that didn't allow minorities, women, and etc. It was a sign of the times, if a person is old enuff they've participated willingly or begrudgingly.
And, if you are claiming that FB had a part in those policies or even agreed with them, explain how he came to hire the first African American Head Coach to run HIS basketball program at the UofA.
Along with NR being the first AA coach at the UofA, FB also recruited the first AA fb player to Missouri b/4 he ever became the coach at the UofA.
Last thing, you think NR ever called FB a racially sensitive name or referred to FB in a racially sensitive manner?

[hogfan10]

lost those connections when we lost Nolan.. All those guys played in the NBA and had great college careers .... Nolan may have poured gas on the flames, but Frank lite the match..

not sure Andre was a connection or McBride...

Could be wrong, but I think AI's granddad was a friend/acquaintance of NR's. Pretty sure there was a connection. JJ didn't play pro did he?, and AI's college career was somewhat pedestrian, although at Arizona he didn't have to be the man with the talent they had.

[hogfan10]

That isn't proof of racism anymore than hiring NR was proof of not being a racist. That was the point.

Ok, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying.
I would say that hiring NR to be the Head Basketball Coach for the program that FB was in charge of was a pretty good sign that FB was not a racist. I'm not sure that you and I apply the same definition to the word racist.
Is it possible that FB held some prejudices against African Americans, sure. Is it possible that NR held some prejudices against whites, sure.

[Dominicanhog]

Could be wrong, but I think AI's granddad was a friend/acquaintance of NR's. Pretty sure there was a connection. JJ didn't play pro did he?, and AI's college career was somewhat pedestrian, although at Arizona he didn't have to be the man with the talent they had.

we need some pedestrians ..

As a sophomore in 2003–04, Iguodala was named team MVP after leading his team in rebounds, assists and steals. He also made the All-Pac-10 First Team and was named Honorable Mention All-America and was drafted 9th that year..

[Dominicanhog]

Is it possible that FB held some prejudices against African Americans, sure. Is it possible that NR held some prejudices against whites, sure.

Easy to be cavalier when it's not you..

[hogfan10]

we need some pedestrians ..

As a sophomore in 2003–04, Iguodala was named team MVP after leading his team in rebounds, assists and steals. He also made the All-Pac-10 First Team and was named Honorable Mention All-America and was drafted 9th that year..

Maybe pedestrian is the wrong word. Those #'s are good, but if he had come here, we would have needed him to score. Didn't he average around 10+/-/pts/game, again not bad; but we needed more. Again, the lack of pts could of had more to do with the needs of the team he was on, than a lack of ability.

[hogfan10]

Easy to be cavalier when it's not you..

Who's being cavalier? Do you disagree with it? Sounds as if you think one should be excused, while condemning the other. Now, who's really being cavalier?

[Atlhogfan1]

Two of those years the NCAA screwed us.. it has a lasting effect.. He had signed Idguodla and McBride was on his radar.. he was rebuilding for another run..he would have signed Conley,  maybe Oden.. he already had Sullinger and his little brother might have followed.

Speculation.  Maybe he could have gotten Conley, Oden and the younger Sullinger.  Oden and Conley Jr weren't Fr until 2006-7 - Nolan was fired after the '02 season.  Long time to bridge between '02 and '06-07 given where the program was.  Jared Sullinger didn't make it to Oh St till 2010.  You act as if these types of players were coming quickly after the 02 season and would have formed teams together. 

we need some pedestrians ..

As a sophomore in 2003–04, Iguodala was named team MVP after leading his team in rebounds, assists and steals. He also made the All-Pac-10 First Team and was named Honorable Mention All-America and was drafted 9th that year..

12ppg - Would have been a good player for one season his Soph season.  Not enough to carry the team Nolan had built to anything of significance. 

Praise Nolan for what he did and what a great coach he was.  But don't spin the end.  The program had significantly declined - not all his fault if it makes you feel better.

[Dominicanhog]

Speculation.  Maybe he could have gotten Conley, Oden and the younger Sullinger.  Oden and Conley Jr weren't Fr until 2006-7 - Nolan was fired after the '02 season.  Long time to bridge between '02 and '06-07 given where the program was.  Jared Sullinger didn't make it to Oh St till 2010.  You act as if these types of players were coming quickly after the 02 season and would have formed teams together. 

12ppg - Would have been a good player for one season his Soph season.  Not enough to carry the team Nolan had built to anything of significance. 

Praise Nolan for what he did and what a great coach he was.  But don't spin the end.  The program had significantly declined - not all his fault if it makes you feel better.

2 things.. I was showing  that there was still plenty of opportunity for Nolan to have have lasted many years... he had connections and knew had to recruit.. Did not say they were all coming that year.. but AI was 03-04 they were 06, that long time to bridge the gap you speak of was one year....as for as how Andre would have performed at Arkansas, you have no clue.. 12pg could have been 24.. You don't know and I don't know.. but he was a pretty good NBA player that would have helped any team he went to..

and clarify for me, where did I spin the end?  I said Nolan may have thrown gas on the fire but Frank lite the match...

but using your words.. believe what you want "if it makes you feel better".

[Dominicanhog]

Who's being cavalier? Do you disagree with it? Sounds as if you think one should be excused, while condemning the other. Now, who's really being cavalier?

trying reading more and mouthing less.. I never excused anyone.. stated both had responsibility..

[GuvHog]

He apologized but I never accepted his apology.  To me he ranks a distant third on most important U of A basketball coaches list behind Nolan and Mike. 

Then you are seriously wrong because Mike is no where near on the same level coaching wise as Nolan and Eddie.

[GuvHog]

Didn't he try to hire a couple before Nolan, just got turned down.. after Holtz  and Kenny nobody wanted to work for Frank..

NM

[roothawg]

Franky did his best to not have anyone be as popular as him. Couldnt threaten the white throne he sat on. Lmfao. Glad there is no more Franky to worry about.

[FineAsSwine]

NM

Definitely was not the first  choice, that was Massimino.

[ShadowHawg]

Then you are seriously wrong because Mike is no where near on the same level coaching wise as Nolan and Eddie.

Actually MA has won tournament games with 3 different programs which was THE feather in Sutton's cap for many years.

[FineAsSwine]

He apologized but I never accepted his apology.  To me he ranks a distant third on most important U of A basketball coaches list behind Nolan and Mike.

Then you are seriously wrong because Mike is no where near on the same level coaching wise as Nolan and Eddie.

Guv, surely you know that Pillowhead is pretending to be serious? Check out his handle, this is not a serious person. He/she is laughing at all of the people taking his bait. If this were him fishing for bream, he'd have a cooler full in less than thirty minutes using just a bare hook.

[hogfan10]

trying reading more and mouthing less..

Easy to be cavalier when it's not you..

Really, I'm the one that is mouthing? Maybe you should take your own advice.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Actually MA has won tournament games with 3 different programs which was THE feather in Sutton's cap for many years.

I think the feather was that he reached the Final Four with three different programs.  That's just a tad different than winning a tournament game with 3 different teams.

[PonderinHog]

I think the feather was that he reached the Final Four with three different programs.  That's just a tad different than winning a tournament game with 3 different teams.

Did he?

He took four teams to the NCAAT.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Did he?

He took four teams to the NCAAT.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know you will), but I think he took Arkansas, Kentucky (1 time) and OK State (twice?).  The only thing really missing on his resume is a Natty, and I think if you gave him truth serum he'd probably admit the '77-'78 Arkansas team was his best shot at that.

[PonderinHog]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know you will), but I think he took Arkansas, Kentucky (1 time) and OK State (twice?).  The only thing really missing on his resume is a Natty, and I think if you gave him truth serum he'd probably admit the '77-'78 Arkansas team was his best shot at that.

I already did, dummy!   

from wiki.

He has the rare distinction of having taken two schools (Arkansas and Oklahoma State) to the Final Four, and was the first coach to lead four schools to the NCAA tournament.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

I already did, dummy!   

from wiki.

He has the rare distinction of having taken two schools (Arkansas and Oklahoma State) to the Final Four, and was the first coach to lead four schools to the NCAA tournament.

I humbly bow to your greatness. 

[PonderinHog]

I humbly bow to your greatness.

[deserthog]

Eddie's 78 team would have won the championship if it wasn't for the blatant foul calls on the triplets in the Kentucky game. They hadn't been in foul troublr all year but Kentucky was the better draw for the finals. It was utter agony watching that take place. No wonder he wanted to go to Kentucky!

[sowmonella]

Eddie's 78 team would have won the championship if it wasn't for the blatant foul calls on the triplets in the Kentucky game. They hadn't been in foul troublr all year but Kentucky was the better draw for the finals. It was utter agony watching that take place. No wonder he wanted to go to Kentucky!

And he's off.........

[ShadowHawg]

Not sure what Augusta and their policies has to do with FB. He probably has eaten at an all white lunch counter, used an all white bathroom, drank out of an all white water fountain. What's your point; should he have gone hungry, held it, and not quenched his thirst. A lot of good people have been members of country clubs, civic organizations, social groups, etc, etc that didn't allow minorities, women, and etc. It was a sign of the times, if a person is old enuff they've participated willingly or begrudgingly.
And, if you are claiming that FB had a part in those policies or even agreed with them, explain how he came to hire the first African American Head Coach to run HIS basketball program at the UofA.
Along with NR being the first AA coach at the UofA, FB also recruited the first AA fb player to Missouri b/4 he ever became the coach at the UofA.
Last thing, you think NR ever called FB a racially sensitive name or referred to FB in a racially sensitive manner?

He coordinated the systematic physical abuse of the first black football player in the history of the U of A and was on record in the Nolan trial as referring to Nolan as Nig.... The man was indeed an unapologetic racist. You ever hear him apologize for these proven transgressions?

[hogfan10]

He coordinated the systematic physical abuse of the first black football player in the history of the U of A and was on record in the Nolan trial as referring to Nolan as Nig.... The man was indeed an unapologetic racist. You ever hear him apologize for these proven transgressions?

Again if he was unapologetically racist, he never would have hired NR.
I've never heard either man (NR or FB) apologize for what they have said about the other. Surely your not suggesting that NR never called FB an unflattering name or two.

[Dominicanhog]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know you will), but I think he took Arkansas, Kentucky (1 time) and OK State (twice?).  The only thing really missing on his resume is a Natty, and I think if you gave him truth serum he'd probably admit the '77-'78 Arkansas team was his best shot at that.

I thought he said 79 with Sid.. He felt we had something for Magic, if not for "shuffle my feet" Heath walking one in at the buzzer...

[GuvHog]

He coordinated the systematic physical abuse of the first black football player in the history of the U of A and was on record in the Nolan trial as referring to Nolan as Nig.... The man was indeed an unapologetic racist. You ever hear him apologize for these proven transgressions?

You do realize that Nolan and Frank mended fences sometime back don't you??

[Jackrabbit Hog]

I thought he said 79 with Sid.. He felt we had something for Magic, if not for "shuffle my feet" Heath walking one in at the buzzer...

You're referencing Bob Heaton of Indiana State.  Yeah, we were two bad late calls from the Final Four that year, but the year before was the Triplets in all their glory.  We outplayed a Kentucky team that started 5 future NBAers for about 35 minutes, until Steve Schall fouled out on a ticky tack over-the-back call on a missed free throw.  Their size got us the last 5 minutes, and we would have kicked Duke's tail in the championship game.

Eddie may have said the '79 team was his best chance, but that may have been his heart and his love for Sidney talking. 

[Kevin]

I truly believe frank hired Nolan for his own legacy. Not necessarily to win basketball games.

[hogfan10]

I truly believe frank hired Nolan for his own legacy. Not necessarily to win basketball games.

If NR was not a winner, it wouldn't have reflected well on FB's legacy. So, I think the expectation of NR when hired was to win.

[Sivad]

I think the expectation of NR when hired was to win.

And he did. At the highest level. For a while. And then he didn't. Didn't try too hard either. Then he went full bore, whack job crazy. And tried to burn the whole house down around him.

[ChicoHog]

You liked watching Sutton teams more than Nolan?

I did for sure.  I will always be biased towards Sutton since I was a student during his tenure like the OP.  Always thought he made great game day adjustments.  No doubt they were both great at what they did but I prefer Sutton just because I am not a fan of sloppy, chaotic basketball.  I don't like a lot of fouls and turnovers.  I enjoy the fast breaks as much as anyone else but am partial to games with good shooting, low foul counts, good motion offense, rebounding, good passing and very few turnovers on both sides.  Just my opinion.