A Simple, Straightforward Question

[311Hog]

The Arkansas kids should want to play for Arkansas ( I mean we see enough that DID NOT want to play for Mike Anderson - Monk, Allen, Goodwin among others ) so having Mike here has not built a fence around the state.

No, Few is not coming here. I doubt Ryan coaches anywhere again. I think they could get Archie Miller. And as we have seen in the past, you never know who may be looking to move so who knows who they could get. They are not getting Self, or Williams, but they could still get a quality coach, and one that could keep some or all of the kids that everyone is suddenly so afraid of losing.

the three you mentioned are 1 and done's and Mike does not strike me as the kind of guy that caters to those types of players.

All of the kids in the 2018 and 2019 classes have much better options then coming to Arkansas for an unknown coach.  That is my point.

Unless you replace Mike Anderson with a coach that CANNOT repeat the Stan Heath/Pelphrey years.  who can you get?

I mean our competition went out and got Ben Howland and Bruce Pearl.  Proven name coaches that win.  As i said before i am not happy with the results but to some degree when we made the move to hire Mike we agreed to a higher degree of loyalty, and when we complained about the 1 and done's spurning the Home town hogs for the NBA feeder system we agreed to support the Arkansas kids that DID choose to be Hogs so is it all really so bad that you are willing to burn all that down ?

And if so what are you willing to burn it down for?  i for one am not willing to burn it down for the next Stan Heath/Pelphrey.....

[Biggus Piggus]

Pure BS.and feeding people this crap with no idea on these kids. i am telling you if Mike goes,most of these guys are gone.Perry and Hill are gone for sure.and very little chance to keep the others.

If Arkansas were to screw up the hire, this would come true. The same people who want Anderson fired also want Jeff Long fired. So...

[Kevin]

If Arkansas were to screw up the hire, this would come true. The same people who want Anderson fired also want Jeff Long fired. So...

I am beginning to lean this way

[cardsNhogs]

What coach do you guys think could come here and keep these recruiting classes intact? money is no object because IMHO we would have to get someone that would be undeniable to sell the move.

University of Arkansas Razorbacks > 2017-2018 Recruiting Class!! The new coach can be an Up and Comer. He can make his mark at this University the same as Gregg Marshall has done at Wich St and Mark few at Gonzaga, the Way Brad Stevens did at Butler and the list goes on and on. The new coach doesn't need to have Ties to Arkansas and these recruiting classes to convince them to stay(just ask Mike White who kept Allen on board at Florida). Even if they all decide to leave we have to take that chance because CMA is going to do nothing with them!

[GuvHog]

What coach do you guys think could come here and keep these recruiting classes intact? money is no object because IMHO we would have to get someone that would be undeniable to sell the move.

I'll answer that but you won't like my answer.

I'd offer Richard Pitino 3 Million a year and get him here at season's end. The guy has the name that draws recruits and he is a really good coach.

[The_Iceman]

I'll answer that but you won't like my answer.

I'd offer Richard Pitino 3 Million a year and get him here at season's end. The guy has the name that draws recruits and he is a really good coach.

He has shown already he can recruit. Has gotten 4-star players from other states to Minnesota. The guy coached circles around Mike earlier this year. Bright young coach who could really help get us over the top. Has Minnesota in the Top 25 and headed to a NCAA appearance.

[WilsonHog]

BTW, if your response to my poll question, is "no," there is no reason to retain any Razorback basketball coach who does not demonstrate at least the potential of meeting that standard beyond five years.

[tophawg19]

Pure BS.and feeding people this crap with no idea on these kids. i am telling you if Mike goes,most of these guys are gone.Perry and Hill are gone for sure.and very little chance to keep the others.

More BS . you don't know what those kids will do. they don't know . These kids are committed to the U of A , not the U of MA . these kids know and understand that a coach can be fired at any time . most of these are Scotty Thurman recruits . MA sure couldn't get them before he came. You are talking about a coach who missed the NCAA 4 out of 5 years .20 stinking % is all . And missed the NIT 3 out of 5 .40% he made the NIT . If these kids are wanting to play in the NCAA they better hope we hire a good coach. They only get four years here so maybe they see 1 Ncaa and a Nit if lucky . And yes if they are good then they have had contact with most if not all major coaches whose style fits them .

[Atlhogfan1]

It would appear that Fitz Hill and Billy Ingram are as responsible for the incoming recruits headed to the Razorback program in 2017-19 as Mike and his staff are. So, are you saying that neither of those guys thinks about or even imagines the idea that those kids they're bringing together and playing for Mike will, like this team and all but one of the past five UA teams, struggle to make the tournament? I would love to know what their opinions are of the in-game coaching going on right now at the UA. Building a program and running a system, we get that. But when the system in place can't be adjusted on the given night (like Tuesday night) for what it's facing, what kind of coaching is that?

How much of a personal relationship do Mike and Fitz have?

[311Hog]

I'll answer that but you won't like my answer.

I'd offer Richard Pitino 3 Million a year and get him here at season's end. The guy has the name that draws recruits and he is a really good coach.

why wouldn't i like the answer?  the guy does all the things you said, sure maybe the Pitino name isn't as "clean" as some would prefer.

[Atlhogfan1]

Back to the OP:

A coach should always be judged on if his ceiling matches the program's.  If not, why keep him for any length of time after he has been given a chance to prove himself in your program?  (same standard for football)

BTW, if your response to my poll question, is "no," there is no reason to retain any Razorback basketball coach who does not demonstrate at least the potential of meeting that standard beyond five years.

[311Hog]

More BS . you don't know what those kids will do. they don't know . These kids are committed to the U of A , not the U of MA . these kids know and understand that a coach can be fired at any time . most of these are Scotty Thurman recruits . MA sure couldn't get them before he came. You are talking about a coach who missed the NCAA 4 out of 5 years .20 stinking % is all . And missed the NIT 3 out of 5 .40% he made the NIT . If these kids are wanting to play in the NCAA they better hope we hire a good coach. They only get four years here so maybe they see 1 Ncaa and a Nit if lucky . And yes if they are good then they have had contact with most if not all major coaches whose style fits them .

You don't think Thurman goes to if Mike gets the boot? because i see no way Thurman stays if Mike goes.  Also if i understand correctly the narrative for these kids coming in the future is to return Hog ball to the glory days so i think they are coming here for the situation and the people currently involved in it.  Is why i said the only way i see this working without Mike is with a guy that is undeniably an upgrade which IMHO will be hard to do.

[hogsanity]

BTW, if your response to my poll question, is "no," there is no reason to retain any Razorback basketball coach who does not demonstrate at least the potential of meeting that standard beyond five years.

I agree, if you cant turn a bball program around in 5 years, you are not going to turn it around. Bball is the quickest fix of all the major sports.

[Youngsta71701]

I really do not care about keeping the recruiting classes in tact because Mike's recruiting has never been that good to start with. If they are coming to play for the coach, that is fraught with peril as that can bad any number of ways. If a new coach is coming in, he can try to get them if he feels they are best for what he wants to do, and if not, he can go recruit other players.

Also, funny, no one seemed to care about the recruiting class Pel had lined up that was ranked top 5 when Mike was hired.

As for what coach COULD keep the class together, no idea, no idea if one would even want to.

You know it's amazing to me how you defend Coach Beilema then turn around and dog Coach Anderson when Coach Anderson has us over .500 overall and over .500 in conference play in basically the same amount of time that Coach Beilema has been here when Coach Beilema has us under .500 overall and under .500 in conference play...
When it comes to Coach Beilema it's the players and when it comes to Coach Anderson it's the coach...
Then you turn around the get onto forrest city joe about defending Coach Anderson and dogging Coach Beilema...
And I bet you don't see the hypocorism in that...

Sometimes we just need to listen to ourselves.

[tophawg19]

coach steve Wojo at Marquette is already out recruiting MA in just 2 years and has a good team. He certainly could keep these kids or just bring in better ones . Scotty Thurman is the only one on staff that I'd keep . Several of the other young coaches could do it as well.

[Letsroll1200]

that is why he should not have been hired. I said from the beginning, hired a guy you cannot fire, just like Georgetown.


funny how the reasons to keep him have nothing to do with his ability or lack there of to coach.

as has been proven over & over again, there is no way to predict if a high school player is going to be and impact player in college, so holding the program hostage over potential players is crazy.

Outside of Arkansas, Georgetown is the only program that I'm an  avid fan of. Both programs will be very good very soon.

[hogsanity]

Outside of Arkansas, Georgetown is the only program that I'm an  avid fan of. Both programs will be very good very soon.

Not surprised, both hired coach with the same characteristics, and both are just about un-fireable due to those characteristics.

[tophawg19]

You don't think Thurman goes to if Mike gets the boot? because i see no way Thurman stays if Mike goes.  Also if i understand correctly the narrative for these kids coming in the future is to return Hog ball to the glory days so i think they are coming here for the situation and the people currently involved in it.  Is why i said the only way i see this working without Mike is with a guy that is undeniably an upgrade which IMHO will be hard to do.

it would be hard not to upgrade mike . anyone who can win big games is an instant upgrade . 3 of his 5 years we couldn't even make the NIT

[forrest city joe]

I'll answer that but you won't like my answer.

I'd offer Richard Pitino 3 Million a year and get him here at season's end. The guy has the name that draws recruits and he is a really good coach.

Richard Pitino was about the get fired at Minnesota just last year. he is not all that good. and he beat Mike this year. but Mike has beat him before too.he is nothing special.we need to keep Mike.

[Letsroll1200]

He has shown already he can recruit. Has gotten 4-star players from other states to Minnesota. The guy coached circles around Mike earlier this year. Bright young coach who could really help get us over the top. Has Minnesota in the Top 25 and headed to a NCAA appearance.

Just got blown out 47 to 65 to Michigan State. Coming off a 18-15 record last season. I don't know of any kids that will be excited about playing for this coach.

[hogsanity]

Richard Pitino was about the get fired at Minnesota just last year. he is not all that good. and he beat Mike this year. but Mike has beat him before too.he is nothing special.we need to keep Mike.

no, WE dont need to keep Mike, you do. It will mess with the decor of your house otherwise.

[forrest city joe]

Not surprised, both hired coach with the same characteristics, and both are just about un-fireable due to those characteristics.

Will you ever stop?anyone can be fired. you are just pissed Mike has not been fired yet.

[cardsNhogs]

Will you ever stop?anyone can be fired. you are just pissed Mike has not been fired yet.

At season's end if Jeff Long is smart.

[Youngsta71701]

More BS . you don't know what those kids will do. they don't know . These kids are committed to the U of A , not the U of MA . these kids know and understand that a coach can be fired at any time . most of these are Scotty Thurman recruits . MA sure couldn't get them before he came. You are talking about a coach who missed the NCAA 4 out of 5 years .20 stinking % is all . And missed the NIT 3 out of 5 .40% he made the NIT . If these kids are wanting to play in the NCAA they better hope we hire a good coach. They only get four years here so maybe they see 1 Ncaa and a Nit if lucky . And yes if they are good then they have had contact with most if not all major coaches whose style fits them .

If you believe this then you are just as naïve as the next. Kids don't commit to schools anymore because they know a coach can be gone at any moment. That's why they commit to the coach.

[hogfan10]

You know it's amazing to me how you defend Coach Beilema then turn around and dog Coach Anderson when Coach Anderson has us over .500 overall and over .500 in conference play in basically the same amount of time that Coach Beilema has been here when Coach Beilema has us under .500 overall and under .500 in conference play...
When it comes to Coach Beilema it's the players and when it comes to Coach Anderson it's the coach...
Then you turn around the get onto forrest city joe about defending Coach Anderson and dogging Coach Beilema...
And I bet you don't see the hypocorism in that...

Sometimes we just need to listen to ourselves.

75% of the football schedule is against the SEC. Which, I would guess, equates to 50/60% of the schedule being against ranked teams.
And, that's b/4 adding the one tuff OOC (TCU) game into the mix.
The basketball schedule doesn't come close, in terms of difficulty.

[Biggus Piggus]

I don't think of Richard Pitino as a coach I'd like Arkansas to have. I think of him as a coach who would be better to have than Mike Anderson, but that's not a high bar.

[Letsroll1200]

Richard Pitino was about the get fired at Minnesota just last year. he is not all that good. and he beat Mike this year. but Mike has beat him before too.he is nothing special.we need to keep Mike.

I don't know what is so good about Richard Pitino. They just want anybody but Mike.

[Youngsta71701]

coach steve Wojo at Marquette is already out recruiting MA in just 2 years and has a good team. He certainly could keep these kids or just bring in better ones . Scotty Thurman is the only one on staff that I'd keep . Several of the other young coaches could do it as well.

They don't even know who the hell Coach Wojo or "whatever his name is" is.

[hogsanity]

75% of the football schedule is against the SEC. Which, I would guess, equates to 50/60% of the schedule being against ranked teams.
And, that's b/4 adding the one tuff OOC (TCU) game into the mix.
The basketball schedule doesn't come close, in terms of difficulty.

I believe the Hogs played 8 teams that were ranked when the Hogs played them last season, 62% of their games were against ranked opponents.

[Youngsta71701]

Not surprised, both hired coach with the same characteristics, and both are just about un-fireable due to those characteristics.

Mind explaining what those characteristics are?

[MountieDawg]

I think there is a general consensus that MA has underachieved the fan's expectations.  But, be careful when thinking about dismissing him.  Remember who his "adopted" father and mentor is.  I really think dismissing him could be a very bumpy ride and, quite possibly, drive top notch coaches further away.  Just my thoughts.  The "Nolan connection" is going to be a factor into whatever decision is made.

Nolan was never able to get another coaching job in college after the fit and lawsuit he did... MA may not be a very good coach but he aint crazy

[tophawg19]

You know it's amazing to me how you defend Coach Beilema then turn around and dog Coach Anderson when Coach Anderson has us over .500 overall and over .500 in conference play in basically the same amount of time that Coach Beilema has been here when Coach Beilema has us under .500 overall and under .500 in conference play...
When it comes to Coach Beilema it's the players and when it comes to Coach Anderson it's the coach...
Then you turn around the get onto forrest city joe about defending Coach Anderson and dogging Coach Beilema...
And I bet you don't see the hypocorism in that...

Sometimes we just need to listen to ourselves.

2 good players can change a whole basketball team. not so in football . We play in the SEC . big time football , not to great in basketball. and CBB is making big changes in assistants . getting name guys . not so with MA

[Youngsta71701]

75% of the football schedule is against the SEC. Which, I would guess, equates to 50/60% of the schedule being against ranked teams.
And, that's b/4 adding the one tuff OOC (TCU) game into the mix.
The basketball schedule doesn't come close, in terms of difficulty.

In basketball we play 18 nonconference games now and 14 conference games. More than enough body of work.

Coach Anderson, Arkansas: 114–68 (.626) overall, 49–43 (.533) conference, in 5 years

Coach Beilema, Arkansas: 25–26 10–22 in 4 years

Need I say more. I don't want to hear anything else about Coach Anderson being fired until I hear about Coach Beilema being fired.

The source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Anderson_(basketball)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Bielema

[Youngsta71701]

2 good players can change a whole basketball team. not so in football . We play in the SEC . big time football , not to great in basketball. and CBB is making big changes in assistants . getting name guys . not so with MA

True, to a certain extent. If those players are top notch NBA type players. How good would we have been those years we had Darren McFadden is he wasn't there?

[Sivad]

Nolan was never able to get another coaching job in college after the fit and lawsuit he did... MA may not be a very good coach but he aint crazy

Agree.
Mike is a much better man than Nolan. He would take his millions of UA dollars and not try to burn the program to the ground on his way out.

[The_Iceman]

In basketball we play 18 nonconference games now and 14 conference games. More than enough body of work.

Coach Anderson, Arkansas: 114–68 (.626) overall, 49–43 (.533) conference, in 5 years

Coach Beilema, Arkansas: 25–26 10–22 in 4 years

Need I say more. I don't want to hear anything else about Coach Anderson being fired until I hear about Coach Beilema being fired.

The source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Anderson_(basketball)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Bielema

Stop comparing SEC football to SEC basketball. Stick to the poor job Mike Anderson is doing as a coach and leave football out of it.

[Youngsta71701]

I believe the Hogs played 8 teams that were ranked when the Hogs played them last season, 62% of their games were against ranked opponents.

Take a look at those ranked opponents record at season's end.

[Youngsta71701]

Stop comparing SEC football to SEC basketball. Stick to the poor job Mike Anderson is doing as a coach and leave football out of it.

Oh, ok...did I strike a nerve... ...Hypocrites like I said. What's ok for one man is not ok for another. Sounds like a double standard to me.

Personally I'm not happy with either one of them to this point but I don't want neither one of them fired either because I can finally see the plan coming together for the both of them. I don't have a one sided agenda like some of you.

[Youngsta71701]

Stop comparing SEC football to SEC basketball. Stick to the poor job Mike Anderson is doing as a coach and leave football out of it.

I'm comparing the records btw. And judging by the records Coach Beilema deserves the axe more than Coach Anderson. Just sayin... ...The reasons they got to those records don't much matter to me.

[WilsonHog]

You know it's amazing to me how you defend Coach Beilema then turn around and dog Coach Anderson when Coach Anderson has us over .500 overall and over .500 in conference play in basically the same amount of time that Coach Beilema has been here when Coach Beilema has us under .500 overall and under .500 in conference play...
When it comes to Coach Beilema it's the players and when it comes to Coach Anderson it's the coach...
Then you turn around the get onto forrest city joe about defending Coach Anderson and dogging Coach Beilema...
And I bet you don't see the hypocorism in that...

Sometimes we just need to listen to ourselves.

There is no hypocrisy in it.

(1) Regardless of who our football coach is, I think 7-9 wins a year, on average, is the best we can achieve. Therefore, that is the standard I measure by.

(2) Regardless of who the basketball coach is, I think what Sutton and Nolan did is the best we can achieve. Therefore, that is the standard I measure by.

When we hired Mike, I assumed he would do what Eddie and Nolan did. It does not look like he will, and with every passing year he loses more if my support. Had I known he couldn't, I would have never been in favor of us hiring him.

And if Buzz Williams was in his 6th year with Mike's record, I would feel the same way.

[GuvHog]

Richard Pitino was about the get fired at Minnesota just last year. he is not all that good. and he beat Mike this year. but Mike has beat him before too.he is nothing special.we need to keep Mike.

Richard Pitino wasn't about to get fired from Minnesota last year. Where do you come up with nonsense like that??? Look at his record this year there. He's really turned that program around. Granted, they probably won't compete for a Big 10 title this year but they'll very likely make the NCAA Tournament.

[hogsanity]

Richard Pitino wasn't about to get fired from Minnesota last year. Where do you come up with nonsense like that???

same place he came up with we better lock up Pelphrey long term before Kentucky comes and steals him away.

[hogsanity]

I'm comparing the records btw. And judging by the records Coach Beilema deserves the axe more than Coach Anderson. Just sayin... ...The reasons they got to those records don't much matter to me.

I will hate myself for doing this but - does a .500 record deserve firing? because the only coach who has had that level the last 3 seasons is Mike Anderson.

[Youngsta71701]

There is no hypocrisy in it.

(1) Regardless of who our football coach is, I think 7-9 wins a year, on average, is the best we can achieve. Therefore, that is the standard I measure by.

(2) Regardless of who the basketball coach is, I think what Sutton and Nolan did is the best we can achieve. Therefore, that is the standard I measure by.

When we hired Mike, I assumed he would do what Eddie and Nolan did. It does not look like he will, and with every passing year he loses more if my support. Had I known he couldn't, I would have never been in favor of us hiring him.

And if Buzz Williams was in his 6th year with Mike's record, I would feel the same way.

Your standards for the basketball program in 2016 with all of this one and done stuff is too high then. Now in the 90's and the early 2000's you may be on to something. Why aren't your standards for the football program at least 10 wins? Didn't Bobby P recently prove it could be done here?

[Youngsta71701]

I will hate myself for doing this but - does a .500 record deserve firing? because the only coach who has had that level the last 3 seasons is Mike Anderson.

Look at the records my friend. His overall percentage is in the .626 and his conference record is .533. But never mind I guess Coach Beilema's overall .490 winning percentage and .312 winning percentage in conference play is good enough.

The point I'm trying to get across to you is that if Coach Anderson deserves to be fired then Coach Beilema deserves to be fired. Plain & simple. No double standards.

But like I said earlier I don't want anyone of them to be fired because I can see improvement coming at the end of the tunnel.

[porkinsons disease]

Look at the records my friend. His overall percentage is in the .626 and his conference record is .533. But never mind I guess Coach Beilema's overall .490 winning percentage and .312 winning percentage in conference play is good enough.

The point I'm trying to get across to you is that if Coach Anderson deserves to be fired then Coach Beilema deserves to be fired. Plain & simple. No double standards.

But like I said earlier I don't want anyone of them to be fired because I can see improvement coming at the end of the tunnel.

You are seriously comparing SEC football to SEC basketball? Although down this year, SEC football is considered the "gold standard" most years. When was SEC basketball last highly regarded like that?

[GuvHog]

Your standards for the basketball program in 2016 with all of this one and done stuff is too high then. Now in the 90's and the early 2000's you may be on to something. Why aren't your standards for the football program at least 10 wins? Didn't Bobby P recently prove it could be done here?

IMHO a down year for Arkansas football would've been an 8 win season minimum under BP and that probably would have been the case in 2012, 2013, and maybe 2014 as well but I could live with that as long as there were some 9 or 10 win seasons mixed in with an occasional shot at a Western Division title and an SEC title. Bielema isn't getting it done.

A down year for men's basketball at the U of A would be an NIT Invitation and winning a number of those games. Mike has gone to the NIT once and the NCAA once at Arkansas in 5 years and that just won't cut it with me.

[Youngsta71701]

You are seriously comparing SEC football to SEC basketball? Although down this year, SEC football is considered the "gold standard" most years. When was SEC basketball last highly regarded like that?

I'm not comparing anything but records.

[bvillepig]

NO. Nolan was a Hall of Fame coach who had charisma and is one of the all time greats.  His run from 89-96 is historical.

ESPN AAU and handlers have changed the game.  The same few teams are going to be elite every year until the NCAA changes some rules. Mike does not have the charisma to attract the types that will get this program to a top five.  However Mike can get us back to a top 15-25.  I don't think there is anyone out there outside Calipari, Self, Krzyzewski, and maybe one or two others who could get us to Nolans success.

That day is gone for Arkansas unless this group is as talented as the Corliss, Scotty, May Day Miller groups. We can be a solid top 20 team however under Mike.

[hogfan10]

Agree.
Mike is a much better man than Nolan. He would take his millions of UA dollars and not try to burn the program to the ground on his way out.

But, Nolan Richardson might give it another shot.