A Simple, Straightforward Question

[WilsonHog]

Some are saying, "Just wait til we get these recruits in."

Okay. Suppose we do. Are we looking then at averaging 25 to 30 wins a season? Trips to the NCAA Tournament most every season? Sweet Sixteens? Final Fours? A program consistently ranked in the Top 20 in the country?

[bkjbearcat]

No. I have zero faith in MA to develop any talent at this point.

[Atlhogfan1]

Some are saying, "Just wait til we get these recruits in."

Okay. Suppose we do. Are we looking then at averaging 25 to 30 wins a season? Trips to the NCAA Tournament most every season? Sweet Sixteens? Final Fours? A program consistently ranked in the Top 20 in the country?

You know the answer. 

This is why I think you and some others are being WAY too lenient with the "make the NCAAT and I am onboard" viewpoint.  Especially when you consider this schedule. 

[Biggus Piggus]

The 2017 recruiting class is strong, but the 2018 group is even better. Arkansas absolutely has to get these players into Fayetteville. If we made a change and the recruits dispersed, it would be suicidal. Any coaching change around here must be conducted with the greatest care.

[revolution]

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!  That's a good one! 

What has Anderson done in 6 years at Arkansas that in any way suggests he is the caliber of coach that Sutton and Nolan were?

Mike is better than Pel.  I'll give him that.  He's not embarrassing the program by his actions, except by lowering the standards.  Mike's teams don't play boring basketball, like Heath's.  But they also don't play efficiently.  Or effectively. Mike is Andy Kennedy.  He's not the worst (see Johnny Jones), but he's also not really good.

[hogsanity]

You know the answer. 

This is why I think you and some others are being WAY too lenient with the "make the NCAAT and I am onboard" viewpoint.  Especially when you consider this schedule. 

what choice does he have since he spent the last 3 years banning anyone who questioned Mike?

[The_Iceman]

No, but that really wasn't what I expected him to do.

I just wanted Mike to get this team back to the tournament on an annual basis, establish ourselves as a Top 3-5 team in the SEC, and maybe have a team capable of getting past the first weekend of the tournament every few years.

I wasn't expecting Final 4's and 30 win seasons. I just wanted consistency and stability. We have had anything but that.

Mike Anderson
1- No NCAA
2- No NCAA
3- NIT 2nd Round
4- NCAA 2nd Round
5- No NCAA
6- TBD

[SemperFi]

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!  That's a good one! 

What has Anderson done in 6 years at Arkansas that in any way suggests he is the caliber of coach that Sutton and Nolan were?

Mike is better than Pel.  I'll give him that.  He's not embarrassing the program by his actions, except by lowering the standards.  Mike's teams don't play boring basketball, like Heath's.  But they also don't play efficiently.  Or effectively. Mike is Andy Kennedy.  He's not the worst (see Johnny Jones), but he's also not really good.

Cannot argue with this at all. My thoughts to a T!

[Atlhogfan1]

The 2017 recruiting class is strong, but the 2018 group is even better. Arkansas absolutely has to get these players into Fayetteville. If we made a change and the recruits dispersed, it would be suicidal. Any coaching change around here must be conducted with the greatest care.

The unknown risk.  I know you are on record of not wanting to change due to not wanting Long to make the hire as you don't trust his ability to do so.  I don't disagree.

At what point is the risk worth it? 

[The_Iceman]

The 2017 recruiting class is strong, but the 2018 group is even better. Arkansas absolutely has to get these players into Fayetteville. If we made a change and the recruits dispersed, it would be suicidal. Any coaching change around here must be conducted with the greatest care.

Gotta make the change with dignity, and make the replacement hire quickly. Need to be doing work behind the scenes to line it up before the change is announced.

Gafford and Hall are Hogs regardless. Garland may look elsewhere, but a solid hire should keep him.

Sills, Joe, and Henderson will probably stay Hogs. Reggie Perry has Hog ties, so a good hire could keep him as well.

Garland and Perry are the two I'm concerned with the most if a change is made. But also consider the new coach may have recruits of his own, or transfers.

[Wisco Pig]

My answer is No, with an eye roll.

I'd be happy at this point with 2-3 straight trips to the NCAAs and a couple of opening-round wins.  That's not exactly shooting for the moon, but it's a start.  After achieving that, we'd naturally revisit expectations.

I agree that the Hogs have to keep their '17 and '18 commitments, regardless of what happens at the end of this season.

[Atlhogfan1]

Let's go with the current immediate standard set by most here:

Make the NCAAT

For this hypothetical, lets say it doesn't happen.

Pros for keeping him:
Recruiting class
Please feel free to add.  All I have.

Cons:
Fan base as a whole seems to be disappearing.  8000 for an SEC home game and you want to keep this coach into next season after he failed to make the NCAAT?  And after he basically said Frank you to the fans who attend games by giving them a complete darn of a schedule to run up his win total?
6 seasons(remember this is post season hypothetical) and yet to field a team capable of playing how he wants to play.  Asking everyone to keep the faith it will happen.
Attrition in college basketball.  You are asking us to believe that all of these recruits will come in and stay for their eligibility or the NBA-whichever comes first.  For a coach reluctant to play freshmen none of these guys are going to bail. 
Feel free to add.

[Knot2brite]

As a coach I have learned that things are never as good or bad as you think they will be...sometimes they are better...sometimes they are worse ..there so many things that can happen...injury, attitude, over-speculation, etc can occur...

[Letsroll1200]

No!!!! He can get to Sutton level but not Nolan.

[Letsroll1200]

Gotta make the change with dignity, and make the replacement hire quickly. Need to be doing work behind the scenes to line it up before the change is announced.

Gafford and Hall are Hogs regardless. Garland may look elsewhere, but a solid hire should keep him.

Sills, Joe, and Henderson will probably stay Hogs. Reggie Perry has Hog ties, so a good hire could keep him as well.

Garland and Perry are the two I'm concerned with the most if a change is made. But also consider the new coach may have recruits of his own, or transfers.

Gafford, Garland, Henderson, and Perry will not be Hogs if Mike is let go. We keep thinking we can bring in somebody. Who? Name me one coach that is connected to these kids right now. Who do you bring in?

[Atlhogfan1]

Back to the OP:

A coach should always be judged on if his ceiling matches the program's.  If not, why keep him for any length of time after he has been given a chance to prove himself in your program?  (same standard for football)

In this instance, do we still have some belief Mike can reach that ceiling because of:

the recruiting classes upcoming?

what his Mizzou team did in 08-09?

any other reasons?

[grayhawg]

I was all for Mike coming back, but I am thinking he is not going to get the job done.

[lynbug]

I think there is a general consensus that MA has underachieved the fan's expectations.  But, be careful when thinking about dismissing him.  Remember who his "adopted" father and mentor is.  I really think dismissing him could be a very bumpy ride and, quite possibly, drive top notch coaches further away.  Just my thoughts.  The "Nolan connection" is going to be a factor into whatever decision is made.

[hogsanity]

I think there is a general consensus that MA has underachieved the fan's expectations.  But, be careful when thinking about dismissing him.  Remember who his "adopted" father and mentor is.  I really think dismissing him could be a very bumpy ride and, quite possibly, drive top notch coaches further away.  Just my thoughts.  The "Nolan connection" is going to be a factor into whatever decision is made.

which was a big reason a few of us did no want him back, he was almost un-fireable due to the fear of a backlash.

[phadedhawg]

I think there is a general consensus that MA has underachieved the fan's expectations.  But, be careful when thinking about dismissing him.  Remember who his "adopted" father and mentor is.  I really think dismissing him could be a very bumpy ride and, quite possibly, drive top notch coaches further away.  Just my thoughts.  The "Nolan connection" is going to be a factor into whatever decision is made.

Ugh...

I was thinking about this yesterday.  I want to think it would be different this time.  I doubt Jeff Long has put much strain on Anderson like Frank did to Nolan.  Also Mike hasn't accomplished anything.  Frank Broyles ran off a coach that won a national title and played in another title game.  Anderson would have nothing to point to and Long would have a lot reasons for making the change.

[The_Iceman]

Ugh...

I was thinking about this yesterday.  I want to think it would be different this time.  I doubt Jeff Long has put much strain on Anderson like Frank did to Nolan.  Also Mike hasn't accomplished anything.  Frank Broyles ran off a coach that won a national title and played in another title game.  Anderson would have nothing to point to and Long would have a lot reasons for making the change.

We are pretty much at the same point we were at the end of the Pelphrey era. Difference is Mike has a better off court record.

Not done enough to keep him, but the good recruiting class is enticing enough to keep him. Then the added Nolan factor.

[hogsanity]

If the current coach was anyone on the planet other than Mike Anderson, the poll results would be 100% no. Although, if the coach last year was anyone other than Mike Anderson, they would have been let go.

[Atlhogfan1]

I wouldn't anticipate Nolan to get involved unless something were done to Mike which could be viewed as unfair.  Nolan knows the expectations of this program.  He has said it before.  He understands Mike's faults along with his strengths.  IF it were to happen, the admin just has to handle the process correctly. 

Interesting few have discussed Wilson's OP to any depth.  Just straight to firing or not. 

[forrest city joe]

Some are saying, "Just wait til we get these recruits in."

Okay. Suppose we do. Are we looking then at averaging 25 to 30 wins a season? Trips to the NCAA Tournament most every season? Sweet Sixteens? Final Fours? A program consistently ranked in the Top 20 in the country?

Yes.fire Mike and you can forget it.

[forrest city joe]

Gotta make the change with dignity, and make the replacement hire quickly. Need to be doing work behind the scenes to line it up before the change is announced.

Gafford and Hall are Hogs regardless. Garland may look elsewhere, but a solid hire should keep him.

Sills, Joe, and Henderson will probably stay Hogs. Reggie Perry has Hog ties, so a good hire could keep him as well.

Garland and Perry are the two I'm concerned with the most if a change is made. But also consider the new coach may have recruits of his own, or transfers.

Pure BS.and feeding people this crap with no idea on these kids. i am telling you if Mike goes,most of these guys are gone.Perry and Hill are gone for sure.and very little chance to keep the others.

[Atlhogfan1]

Yes.fire Mike and you can forget it.

39-1 at this point

We know the 1. 

[hogsanity]

Yes.fire Mike and you can forget it.

says the guy who wanted Pelphrey signed to a long term extension because Ky was going to come steal him away.

[hogfan10]

No!!!! He can get to Sutton level but not Nolan.

So a Final Four, and 9 NCAA's in 11 years at Arkansas?
Don't think Anderson gets to that level. Also, I don't think 66 teams made the NCAA's back then.

[bkjbearcat]

Pure BS.and feeding people this crap with no idea on these kids. i am telling you if Mike goes,most of these guys are gone.Perry and Hill are gone for sure.and very little chance to keep the others.

If it means MA is gone. I'm good with it.

[porkinsons disease]

which was a big reason a few of us did no want him back, he was almost un-fireable due to the fear of a backlash.

spot on. I know you, I, Kevin, Atlhogfan, and others were hanging that drum loudly. Any backlash would be them supporting a person and not the program. CMA has been an utter failure. Not sure how much more the goalposts can be moved. Anyone good with a tourney bid every 6 years is kidding themselves if they are happy where we are as a program now

[Youngsta71701]

No, I'm anxious to see who can...   I just want us to be respectable again.

[The_Iceman]

says the guy who wanted Pelphrey signed to a long term extension because Ky was going to come steal him away.

He never responds to this. Just acts like it didn't happen.

[Hawg Red]

Pure BS.and feeding people this crap with no idea on these kids. i am telling you if Mike goes,most of these guys are gone.Perry and Hill are gone for sure.and very little chance to keep the others.

You can't possibly believe that.

[Ironhawg]

Pure BS.and feeding people this crap with no idea on these kids. i am telling you if Mike goes,most of these guys are gone.Perry and Hill are gone for sure.and very little chance to keep the others.

How do you know this definitively?

[rzrbkman]

There is no guarantee that all/any of the committed but yet unsigned recruits make it to Fayetteville even if MA stays. A lot of things can change between now and signing day.

[realistichog]

MAHas proven that he can't recruit consistently, coach more than one style, is a terrible in game coach and simply does not teach good fundamental basketball. In my opinion he is the most over paid coach in America in you consider results as in wins, tourny appearances and attendance. We can't be held hostage by a recruiting class to keep a failing coach.

[jethro]

If Mike was gone, it would be possible we would lose recruits.  That is fairly easy to say.  It COULD happen.

But, whoever is hired as coach will still be recruiting.  He might convince most or all of the lined up recruits to stay.  He might not be able to save any of them.  Someone will be recruited.  Hopefully, someone who fits the style of whatever coach is coming in.  Might not be the same guys, but it does not mean if these players do not come we have to play with the 6th grade team from Fayetteville Middle School.

[The_Iceman]

How do you know this definitively?

He doesn't. It's FCJ.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

Some are saying, "Just wait til we get these recruits in."

Okay. Suppose we do. Are we looking then at averaging 25 to 30 wins a season? Trips to the NCAA Tournament most every season? Sweet Sixteens? Final Fours? A program consistently ranked in the Top 20 in the country?

Mike has us a little better than pelphrey had us.
This is extremely similar to the final five years of Nolan. Great one week, terrible the next, and barely making it in the NCAA if that.

Hell I should have seen this coming in 13-14 when we had Portis and qualls. How the hell can we get our first rupp arena win in 20 years and still not get in?? He managed to crap away TWO wins over Kentucky!!!

I lived and died with Arkansas basketball as a kid. I desperately want March to actually mean something again. It Ain't happening with mike.

[311Hog]

What coach do you guys think could come here and keep these recruiting classes intact? money is no object because IMHO we would have to get someone that would be undeniable to sell the move.

[hogsanity]

What coach do you guys think could come here and keep these recruiting classes intact? money is no object because IMHO we would have to get someone that would be undeniable to sell the move.

I really do not care about keeping the recruiting classes in tact because Mike's recruiting has never been that good to start with. If they are coming to play for the coach, that is fraught with peril as that can bad any number of ways. If a new coach is coming in, he can try to get them if he feels they are best for what he wants to do, and if not, he can go recruit other players.

Also, funny, no one seemed to care about the recruiting class Pel had lined up that was ranked top 5 when Mike was hired.

As for what coach COULD keep the class together, no idea, no idea if one would even want to. 

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

What coach do you guys think could come here and keep these recruiting classes intact? money is no object because IMHO we would have to get someone that would be undeniable to sell the move.

At this point the risk of losing recruits is worth a new coach. We aren't going anywhere anyway with top notch juco studs.  Why would it be any different with kids that may or may not be good?

We need a clean slate with a guy that can win. If you hire a winner, recruits won't leave. Bobby Petrino 2008.

[TomasPistola]

Mike has us a little better than pelphrey had us.
This is extremely similar to the final five years of Nolan. Great one week, terrible the next, and barely making it in the NCAA if that.

Hell I should have seen this coming in 13-14 when we had Portis and qualls. How the hell can we get our first rupp arena win in 20 years and still not get in?? He managed to crap away TWO wins over Kentucky!!!

I lived and died with Arkansas basketball as a kid. I desperately want March to actually mean something again. It Ain't happening with mike.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts.

[311Hog]

I really do not care about keeping the recruiting classes in tact because Mike's recruiting has never been that good to start with. If they are coming to play for the coach, that is fraught with peril as that can bad any number of ways. If a new coach is coming in, he can try to get them if he feels they are best for what he wants to do, and if not, he can go recruit other players.

Also, funny, no one seemed to care about the recruiting class Pel had lined up that was ranked top 5 when Mike was hired.

As for what coach COULD keep the class together, no idea, no idea if one would even want to. 

But here is the difference.  The recruiting classes are Arkansas kids.  Anderson is an Arkansas guy Pelphrey was not in anyway so they cannot be compared IMHO.

To me you have to think about what you are giving up and what is realistically out there before you take that leap.  Am i happy with Hog basketball ? umm that is a no to put it mildly, but i can clearly see that all of the relevant top tier kids from within the state are on board, the last time that happened we got Portis and Madden which were a couple good years. This group maybe better who knows but i can tell you one thing.

I am much more interested in seeing a Mike Anderson led hog basketball team with Garland, Perry and all those kids then i am the possibility of hiring some "up and come'r" or also ran coach that will throw together some 3 stars from across the country and likely stink up the place worse than we have already suffered through.

That is why i want to hear some idea's for coaches from you all.  Do you think Bryce Drew? Archie Miller are coming here, what about getting Bo Ryan to come out retirement? or getting Mark Few away from Gonzaga finally?

What do you really believe is possible?

[code red]

Pure BS.and feeding people this crap with no idea on these kids. i am telling you if Mike goes,most of these guys are gone.Perry and Hill are gone for sure.and very little chance to keep the others.

And....He has had talent and lost.  I think regardless if he misses the tourney....."he gone"

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

But here is the difference.  The recruiting classes are Arkansas kids.  Anderson is an Arkansas guy Pelphrey was not in anyway so they cannot be compared IMHO.

To me you have to think about what you are giving up and what is realistically out there before you take that leap.  Am i happy with Hog basketball ? umm that is a no to put it mildly, but i can clearly see that all of the relevant top tier kids from within the state are on board, the last time that happened we got Portis and Madden which were a couple good years. This group maybe better who knows but i can tell you one thing.

I am much more interested in seeing a Mike Anderson led hog basketball team with Garland, Perry and all those kids then i am the possibility of hiring some "up and come'r" or also ran coach that will throw together some 3 stars from across the country and likely stink up the place worse than we have already suffered through.

That is why i want to hear some idea's for coaches from you all.  Do you think Bryce Drew? Archie Miller are coming here, what about getting Bo Ryan to come out retirement? or getting Mark Few away from Gonzaga finally?

What do you really believe is possible?

We dropped our first two sec home games with a reloaded roster.
We are getting no returns and the fans know that. Not many ppl want to devote more time, money, travel, etc etc for a bad product.

Never thought I'd see the day where 8k show up for an sec game.

[Jim Harris]

Mike has us a little better than pelphrey had us.
This is extremely similar to the final five years of Nolan. Great one week, terrible the next, and barely making it in the NCAA if that.

Hell I should have seen this coming in 13-14 when we had Portis and qualls. How the hell can we get our first rupp arena win in 20 years and still not get in?? He managed to crap away TWO wins over Kentucky!!!

I lived and died with Arkansas basketball as a kid. I desperately want March to actually mean something again. It Ain't happening with mike.

And who was handling most of Nolan's recruiting at the time, when it wasn't Nolan? (rhetorical, you don't have to answer).

[hogsanity]

But here is the difference.  The recruiting classes are Arkansas kids.  Anderson is an Arkansas guy Pelphrey was not in anyway so they cannot be compared IMHO.

To me you have to think about what you are giving up and what is realistically out there before you take that leap.  Am i happy with Hog basketball ? umm that is a no to put it mildly, but i can clearly see that all of the relevant top tier kids from within the state are on board, the last time that happened we got Portis and Madden which were a couple good years. This group maybe better who knows but i can tell you one thing.

I am much more interested in seeing a Mike Anderson led hog basketball team with Garland, Perry and all those kids then i am the possibility of hiring some "up and come'r" or also ran coach that will throw together some 3 stars from across the country and likely stink up the place worse than we have already suffered through.

That is why i want to hear some idea's for coaches from you all.  Do you think Bryce Drew? Archie Miller are coming here, what about getting Bo Ryan to come out retirement? or getting Mark Few away from Gonzaga finally?

What do you really believe is possible?

The Arkansas kids should want to play for Arkansas ( I mean we see enough that DID NOT want to play for Mike Anderson - Monk, Allen, Goodwin among others ) so having Mike here has not built a fence around the state.

No, Few is not coming here. I doubt Ryan coaches anywhere again. I think they could get Archie Miller. And as we have seen in the past, you never know who may be looking to move so who knows who they could get. They are not getting Self, or Williams, but they could still get a quality coach, and one that could keep some or all of the kids that everyone is suddenly so afraid of losing.

[Kevin]

I think there is a general consensus that MA has underachieved the fan's expectations.  But, be careful when thinking about dismissing him.  Remember who his "adopted" father and mentor is.  I really think dismissing him could be a very bumpy ride and, quite possibly, drive top notch coaches further away.  Just my thoughts.  The "Nolan connection" is going to be a factor into whatever decision is made.

that is why he should not have been hired. I said from the beginning, hired a guy you cannot fire, just like Georgetown.


funny how the reasons to keep him have nothing to do with his ability or lack there of to coach.

as has been proven over & over again, there is no way to predict if a high school player is going to be and impact player in college, so holding the program hostage over potential players is crazy.

[Jim Harris]

Pure BS.and feeding people this crap with no idea on these kids. i am telling you if Mike goes,most of these guys are gone.Perry and Hill are gone for sure.and very little chance to keep the others.

It would appear that Fitz Hill and Billy Ingram are as responsible for the incoming recruits headed to the Razorback program in 2017-19 as Mike and his staff are. So, are you saying that neither of those guys thinks about or even imagines the idea that those kids they're bringing together and playing for Mike will, like this team and all but one of the past five UA teams, struggle to make the tournament? I would love to know what their opinions are of the in-game coaching going on right now at the UA. Building a program and running a system, we get that. But when the system in place can't be adjusted on the given night (like Tuesday night) for what it's facing, what kind of coaching is that?