Why is the buyout so lopsided?

[STLhawg]

So why is the buy-out so incredibly lopsided?  Why did Long agree to pay BB $15M to fire him but only have a $2M penalty for BB if he decided to leave in his FIFTH year?  For BP those figures were about the same.  It is logical to make the numbers the same because that shows the school's commitment to the coach AND shows the coach's commitment to the school.  Evidently BB wanted a huge commitment from Arkansas but at the same time wanted to be 'free' to leave if he chose to.  So why on earth would Jeff Long agree to this?  This contract with BB just doesn't smell right -- it almost seems like Long and BB colluded to stick it to Arkansas (if they chose to fire BB).  Do the two men share the same agent?  Or did Long realize he was 'married' to BB and knew if he didn't succeed then Arkansas would likely fire the AD too (and therefore he bought BB and himself more time)?  I just don't see how he had Arkansas' best interest in mind when he agreed to this.  Maybe someone who thinks Long is a good AD can explain it to me.

[lefty96]

You have to assume it is b/c Long felt he needed Bert more than Bert needed the job.   

[Poker_hog]

That's what integrity costs.

[theFlyingHog]

So why is the buy-out so incredibly lopsided?  Why did Long agree to pay BB $15M to fire him but only have a $2M penalty for BB if he decided to leave in his FIFTH year?  For BP those figures were about the same.  It is logical to make the numbers the same because that shows the school's commitment to the coach AND shows the coach's commitment to the school.  Evidently BB wanted a huge commitment from Arkansas but at the same time wanted to be 'free' to leave if he chose to.  So why on earth would Jeff Long agree to this?  This contract with BB just doesn't smell right -- it almost seems like Long and BB colluded to stick it to Arkansas (if they chose to fire BB).  Do the two men share the same agent?  Or did Long realize he was 'married' to BB and knew if he didn't succeed then Arkansas would likely fire the AD too (and therefore he bought BB and himself more time)?  I just don't see how he had Arkansas' best interest in mind when he agreed to this.  Maybe someone who thinks Long is a good AD can explain it to me.

This may be the dumbest post in the history of HV(that wasn't an obvious troll)

Do a little research on HC contracts around the country. The university has more money than Bert does. $15mil for the U hits their pocket ab like $2mil hits BB's pocket.

[Inhogswetrust]

This may be the dumbest post in the history of HV(that wasn't an obvious troll)

Do a little research on HC contracts around the country. The university has more money than Bert does. $15mil for the U hits their pocket ab like $2mil hits BB's pocket.

He does make a good point in that it shows a huge commitment on both parts for it to be the same irregardless of the amount. Recruits and players committing might take that into consideration a little bit. Say a coach leaves for another job that pays as well. He could easily get more than $2 million in his next job or the school that hires him might pay it similar to what we did when he left Wisconsin.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Speaking of big buyouts, is Notre Dame still paying Charlie Weiss?

[DeltaBoy]

Speaking of big buyouts, is Notre Dame still paying Charlie Weiss?

Read somewhere they finally paid him off.

[ErieHog]

Because its pretty much the norm? 

[Inhogswetrust]

Read somewhere they finally paid him off.

How about Kansas?

[hawgon]

To make sure Long kept his man as safe as possible.

[DeltaBoy]

So why is the buy-out so incredibly lopsided?  Why did Long agree to pay BB $15M to fire him but only have a $2M penalty for BB if he decided to leave in his FIFTH year?  For BP those figures were about the same.  It is logical to make the numbers the same because that shows the school's commitment to the coach AND shows the coach's commitment to the school.  Evidently BB wanted a huge commitment from Arkansas but at the same time wanted to be 'free' to leave if he chose to.  So why on earth would Jeff Long agree to this?  This contract with BB just doesn't smell right -- it almost seems like Long and BB colluded to stick it to Arkansas (if they chose to fire BB).  Do the two men share the same agent?  Or did Long realize he was 'married' to BB and knew if he didn't succeed then Arkansas would likely fire the AD too (and therefore he bought BB and himself more time)?  I just don't see how he had Arkansas' best interest in mind when he agreed to this.  Maybe someone who thinks Long is a good AD can explain it to me.

Simple Jeff the Carpet BAGGER Long a Blooming Idiot!

[Inhogswetrust]

Simple Jeff the Carpet BAGGER Long a Blooming Idiot!

Get off the carpetbagger crap. If the confederates were so smart they should have been able to overcome all the advantages the north had. Even moreso they should have been smart enough not to secede.

[STLhawg]

Because its pretty much the norm?

So it became the norm within the past half dozen years?  As I pointed out, the buyout for BP was very different  (i.e. - more less equal).

[hawgon]

Long structured the buyout that way in order to kill off the GOBN.  And it has almost worked, except for one thing, he bet on the wrong horse.  Bielema wasn't half the coach Long thought he was.  Now, he is struggling a bit.  If he could, it would be best to dump Bert and move on.  But he can't do that now without taking the big money and the strings that come with it.  And of course, if he refuses to replace Bert and he continues to tank, Long will go down with him.

There is talk that the money is there.  But it has strings.

[DeltaBoy]

Get off the carpetbagger crap. If the confederates were so smart they should have been able to overcome all the advantages the north had. Even moreso they should have been smart enough not to secede.

He is a Yankee who knew nothing about us and still doesn't. While the war been over 150 years there are undeniable cultural differences between folks from up there and down here. 

[Inhogswetrust]

Long structured the buyout that way in order to kill off the GOBN.  And it has almost worked, except for one thing, he bet on the wrong horse.  Bielema wasn't half the coach Long thought he was.  Now, he is struggling a bit.  If he could, it would be best to dump Bert and move on.  But he can't do that now without taking the big money and the strings that come with it.  And of course, if he refuses to replace Bert and he continues to tank, Long will go down with him.

There is talk that the money is there.  But it has strings.

Really? That GOBN helped pay off Nolan and others.

[HawgWild]

He is a Yankee who knew nothing about us and still doesn't. While the war been over 150 years there are undeniable cultural differences between folks from up there and down here.

And yet there's some on here that want to hire Les "Ar-Kansas" Miles.

[Inhogswetrust]

He is a Yankee who knew nothing about us and still doesn't. While the war been over 150 years there are undeniable cultural differences between folks from up there and down here. 

Really? Things have changed a lot since then yet you won't admit it or can't see it. What did he have to know about us? Only that we love our Hogs. Besides we aren't all the same anyway. Most of Arkansas is not the old south plantation mentality any more as I suspect you would like. I was in Water Valley MS Saturday and one of the nicest persons we met there was a lady that owned a store in both Water Valley and Oxford, MS. We found out she was from New Jersey. I guess you would think she's a carpetbagger. She didn't know anything about MS before moving down there. Heck there are cultural differences between states, areas inside all states including those in the south and even counties and cities. That war and what happened afterward is over. The really sad part is it never had to even happen yet some still glorify it and harbor ill will towards others that had NOTHING to do with it.

[STLhawg]

This may be the dumbest post in the history of HV(that wasn't an obvious troll)

You must not read much here if you think that.  If you want to see something really dumb (borderline absurd) then you need to look at the buyout Long gave BB!

Do a little research on HC contracts around the country. The university has more money than Bert does. $15mil for the U hits their pocket ab like $2mil hits BB's pocket.

Just because a few ADs have made the mistake before doesn't mean we have to ignore Long's big mistake here (assuming it wasn't a deliberate, self-serving move).  You are sadly mistaken if you believe $15M is 'chump change' for the UofA; a buyout like that hurts Arkansas for years.

[Redhogs]

This may be the dumbest post in the history of HV(that wasn't an obvious troll)

Do a little research on HC contracts around the country. The university has more money than Bert does. $15mil for the U hits their pocket ab like $2mil hits BB's pocket.

Wrong....Usually when a coach leaves for a better job, the new school almost always pays his buy out to the old school and the coach pays nothing out of his pocket.. hence the higher the buy out, the less likely a school will come after the coach. This is a dreadful contract for the school..on both ends.

[ShadowHawg]

This may be the dumbest post in the history of HV(that wasn't an obvious troll)

Do a little research on HC contracts around the country. The university has more money than Bert does. $15mil for the U hits their pocket ab like $2mil hits BB's pocket.

I would submit yours as being dumber.

The lower penalty for the coach makes it easier for him to leave on his own if he can find something Even a smaller program could help with an amount like that.

[DeltaBoy]

Jeff Long gambled on Bobby and got bit , He Hired SMILE the Clown and we all blindly gave him a Pass. He hires a Coach who grew up a pig farmer and with out Barry looking over his shoulder Bret can't recruit or coach worth a lick.

We ought to ride Jeff been here too Long out of town on a rail.

[Big Nasty 34]

Jeff Long gambled on Bobby and got bit , He Hired SMILE the Clown and we all blindly gave him a Pass. He hires a Coach who grew up a pig farmer and with out Barry looking over his shoulder Bret can't recruit or coach worth a lick.

We ought to ride Jeff been here too Long out of town on a rail.

Ain't gonna happen. All the folks who write the big checks are in full support of him and the athletic program. Most all the programs are competitive, have above average grades, and there are no scandals ruining the university's image. Long is in no trouble despite us common folk fans being unhappy.

[hawgon]

Ain't gonna happen. All the folks who write the big checks are in full support of him and the athletic program. Most all the programs are competitive, have above average grades, and there are no scandals ruining the university's image. Long is in no trouble despite us common folk fans being unhappy.

You think so?  Did you notice where Long wasn't on Saturday?

[hogsanity]

Before you act like the buyout is lopsided or out of the norm, have you checked into the buyouts of just the other sec coaches? Most of them are pretty large.

[DeltaBoy]

Ain't gonna happen. All the folks who write the big checks are in full support of him and the athletic program. Most all the programs are competitive, have above average grades, and there are no scandals ruining the university's image. Long is in no trouble despite us common folk fans being unhappy.

Lets see how long it takes for empty seats to return.

[Wildhog]

I liked the mirrored buyout that he had with Bobby.  Don't know why he got away from that with Bret.

[Big Nasty 34]

You think so?  Did you notice where Long wasn't on Saturday?

I know he wasn't in my living room lol. Not sure what you're meaning.

[MJ2]

So why is the buy-out so incredibly lopsided?  Why did Long agree to pay BB $15M to fire him but only have a $2M penalty for BB if he decided to leave in his FIFTH year?  For BP those figures were about the same.  It is logical to make the numbers the same because that shows the school's commitment to the coach AND shows the coach's commitment to the school.  Evidently BB wanted a huge commitment from Arkansas but at the same time wanted to be 'free' to leave if he chose to.  So why on earth would Jeff Long agree to this?  This contract with BB just doesn't smell right -- it almost seems like Long and BB colluded to stick it to Arkansas (if they chose to fire BB).  Do the two men share the same agent?  Or did Long realize he was 'married' to BB and knew if he didn't succeed then Arkansas would likely fire the AD too (and therefore he bought BB and himself more time)?  I just don't see how he had Arkansas' best interest in mind when he agreed to this.  Maybe someone who thinks Long is a good AD can explain it to me.

They're carpetbaggers.   Came down here to the south and took advantage of our desperation (to win football games) and signed a bunch of huge contracts and will cash in and head north soon.  Nothing new here.

[Wildhog]

I know he wasn't in my living room lol. Not sure what you're meaning.

Cliff Clavin?

[hogsanity]

Lets see how long it takes for empty seats to return.

there are empty seats at every game. Get a home crowd under 60K in Fay and then maybe it is an issue. 

[hawgon]

Every year we get plenty of television views of Jeff Long at that game, I didn't see any on Saturday.  Why?  I don't know.  I'm just asking.

[Big Nasty 34]

Every year we get plenty of television views of Jeff Long at that game, I didn't see any on Saturday.  Why?  I don't know.  I'm just asking.

Wasn't he at the halftime ceremony? I don't know his whereabouts otherwise.

[hawgon]

Wasn't he at the halftime ceremony? I don't know his whereabouts otherwise.

Where does he always sit at that game and where do we always get plenty of shots of him sitting and yucking it up?  There were lots of shots of that area on Saturday, but no Jeff Long.  Does anyone know why?

[Big Nasty 34]

Lets see how long it takes for empty seats to return.

All those new suites and boxes are pretty much all bought I believe. There 2-3 contracts I hear. Those are the big money tickets they care about. Not the $60 ones most of us buy.

[hehawg]

So why is the buy-out so incredibly lopsided?  Why did Long agree to pay BB $15M to fire him but only have a $2M penalty for BB if he decided to leave in his FIFTH year?  For BP those figures were about the same.  It is logical to make the numbers the same because that shows the school's commitment to the coach AND shows the coach's commitment to the school.  Evidently BB wanted a huge commitment from Arkansas but at the same time wanted to be 'free' to leave if he chose to.  So why on earth would Jeff Long agree to this?  This contract with BB just doesn't smell right -- it almost seems like Long and BB colluded to stick it to Arkansas (if they chose to fire BB).  Do the two men share the same agent?  Or did Long realize he was 'married' to BB and knew if he didn't succeed then Arkansas would likely fire the AD too (and therefore he bought BB and himself more time)?  I just don't see how he had Arkansas' best interest in mind when he agreed to this.  Maybe someone who thinks Long is a good AD can explain it to me.

May not be good at coaching but it looks like he nailed it negotiating his contract!

[STLhawg]

Before you act like the buyout is lopsided or out of the norm, have you checked into the buyouts of just the other sec coaches? Most of them are pretty large.

Well I can understand them being lopsided for coaches who have actually done something substantial (i.e. - greater than just going 7-6 and winning a mediocre bowl versus Texas).  I can also understand it in the first 3-4 years of new coach's contract because he wants to ensure he had time to build the program.  But it makes little sense to see it so incredibly lopsided in the fifth season contract (because he has all his players, etc).  Again it shows a large commitment to the coach from the school but not vice versa -- how is that a good thing for the school?

[STLhawg]

For the record, I am not sure I want Long run off because he seems to be good at some AD things -- but I do know I don't want him hiring our football coach (without a LOT of help) and I sure as heck don't want him negotiating that contract!

[jcbville]

I didnt read all of this but I bet there was a lot of comments like "Jeff Long is a dumb Yankee carpetbaggin southern manhood envying sob" etc....But the thing about the buyout is...it wasnt approved buy Jeff Long in a vacuum. It was approved by the other powers that be as well. They all approved it because there was a strategy to it at the time.

[ricepig]

I liked the mirrored buyout that he had with Bobby.  Don't know why he got away from that with Bret.

Neil Cornrich is a better agent, haha.

[hehawg]

Ain't gonna happen. All the folks who write the big checks are in full support of him and the athletic program. Most all the programs are competitive, have above average grades, and there are no scandals ruining the university's image. Long is in no trouble despite us common folk fans being unhappy.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. In the event those "big check writers" have had enough and it ends up costing millions to start fresh my employer would send me and anyone else packing.

[Wildhog]

Neil Cornrich is a better agent, haha.

So we need a better negotiator as AD? 

[hogsanity]

I didnt read all of this but I bet there was a lot of comments like "Jeff Long is a dumb Yankee carpetbaggin southern manhood envying sob" etc....But the thing about the buyout is...it wasnt approved buy Jeff Long in a vacuum. It was approved by the other powers that be as well. They all approved it because there was a strategy to it at the time.

That is the funniest part. They act as though Long runs the place alone. BB was given the buyout because the school had no plans to get rid of him for many years but, IF he were to become really successful they wanted protection against him leaving and forcing them into yet another coaching change. It truly is not that hard to figure out.

[ricepig]

I didnt read all of this but I bet there was a lot of comments like "Jeff Long is a dumb Yankee carpetbaggin southern manhood envying sob" etc....But the thing about the buyout is...it wasnt approved buy Jeff Long in a vacuum. It was approved by the other powers that be as well. They all approved it because there was a strategy to it at the time.

All coach's contracts have to be signed by the Chancellor and System President.

[jackflash]

I would have you said HC made sure he would get a full five years to coach

[drizzle]

So why is the buy-out so incredibly lopsided?  Why did Long agree to pay BB $15M to fire him but only have a $2M penalty for BB if he decided to leave in his FIFTH year?  For BP those figures were about the same.  It is logical to make the numbers the same because that shows the school's commitment to the coach AND shows the coach's commitment to the school.  Evidently BB wanted a huge commitment from Arkansas but at the same time wanted to be 'free' to leave if he chose to.  So why on earth would Jeff Long agree to this?  This contract with BB just doesn't smell right -- it almost seems like Long and BB colluded to stick it to Arkansas (if they chose to fire BB).  Do the two men share the same agent?  Or did Long realize he was 'married' to BB and knew if he didn't succeed then Arkansas would likely fire the AD too (and therefore he bought BB and himself more time)?  I just don't see how he had Arkansas' best interest in mind when he agreed to this.  Maybe someone who thinks Long is a good AD can explain it to me.

Asymmetric bargaining power.  We needed a "good name" hire like BB more than BB needed a school like Arkansas (really, given where he was at Wisconsin, if he wanted out he could have left to numerous places with easier roads than we have in the SEC).

[PorkSoda]

He does make a good point in that it shows a huge commitment on both parts for it to be the same irregardless of the amount. Recruits and players committing might take that into consideration a little bit. Say a coach leaves for another job that pays as well. He could easily get more than $2 million in his next job or the school that hires him might pay it similar to what we did when he left Wisconsin.

correct, coaches never pay the buy out, the school that hires them away pays the buy out.

I agree, this doesn't smell right.  if the point is to keep him long term, then why let him walkaway for chump change, yet if we have to fire him we owe him 5 times that amount?  makes no sense business wise. 

[Wildhog]

correct, coaches never pay the buy out, the school that hires them away pays the buy out.

I agree, this doesn't smell right.  if the point is to keep him long term, then why let him walkaway for chump change, yet if we have to fire him we owe him 5 times that amount?  makes no sense business wise. 

Yep.

[PorkSoda]

Asymmetric bargaining power.  We needed a "good name" hire like BB more than BB needed a school like Arkansas (really, given where he was at Wisconsin, if he wanted out he could have left to numerous places with easier roads than we have in the SEC).

BS, he could have left for conference USA, but no big name school is going to hire a guy coming off a 2-6 conf record and barely made a bowl.

[Con el Cerdos]

So why is the buy-out so incredibly lopsided?  Why did Long agree to pay BB $15M to fire him but only have a $2M penalty for BB if he decided to leave in his FIFTH year?  For BP those figures were about the same.  It is logical to make the numbers the same because that shows the school's commitment to the coach AND shows the coach's commitment to the school.  Evidently BB wanted a huge commitment from Arkansas but at the same time wanted to be 'free' to leave if he chose to.  So why on earth would Jeff Long agree to this?  This contract with BB just doesn't smell right -- it almost seems like Long and BB colluded to stick it to Arkansas (if they chose to fire BB).  Do the two men share the same agent?  Or did Long realize he was 'married' to BB and knew if he didn't succeed then Arkansas would likely fire the AD too (and therefore he bought BB and himself more time)?  I just don't see how he had Arkansas' best interest in mind when he agreed to this.  Maybe someone who thinks Long is a good AD can explain it to me.

lefty96 said it:  Long at the time need Bielema more than Bielema needed Long.  Bielema cuts and runs after reexamining his "mistake" after year two as Razorback coach would not have looked good on Long's resume.  Long throws the risk on the Arkansas athletic department to keep his resume clean.

Additionally, IMO there is not much Jeff does that he doesn't examine the deal to see how it makes him look, not just to Razorback fans but to the out of state media particularly.

Even with all the new buildings and the stadium improvements I have a feeling ole Jeff is going to lead Arkansas right down the rabbit hole before he's through.