Bielema vs Jones

[Razorfox]

For those of you that think the only reason we are going to lose tonight is because of CBB, I'm just curious why you give CBJ the big benefit of the doubt over CBB.

Looking at CBJ's career, his winning numbers were at BEST comparable (and arguably worse) to CBB's during his time Cincinnati vs CBB's time at Wisconsin.  He did pretty decent against the lesser competition, but lost almost all the games against the "big boys". Both of them took over for successful previous coaches. 

And his time at UT hasn't exactly been stellar and that even in a weaker SEC-East.  And specifically this year, he's had the same 4th quarter struggles that CBB has had. 

I'm not saying that CBB's been stellar, especially here recently, but I don't think CBJ has been either. 

[jry04]

UT's struggles have actually been worse. Against OU, they had a good first quarter, but after their first drive in the 2nd quarter they only had like 70 more yards the rest of the game. He also made one of the worst coaching decisions I have seen to go for the XP instead of for 2 when they scored a TD to put them up 12 in the 4th. Go for 2 and you can be up 14, and if you don't get it a FG still wins in the even you give up 2 scores. Instead, he kicks the XP and they lose by 1, rightfully so. He has had some really bad coaching decisions. UT has had big time recruits commit to them over the last few years, but still cannot produce on the field. At least we have the injuries excuse.

[razorbackkid]

Both coaches are running out of excuses to use and both fan bases are ready to quit listening.  The winning coach of this game only gets a few days reprieve.  The losing coach is going to be roasted no matter what happens on the field.

Going to be interesting.

[carolinahogger]

For those of you that think the only reason we are going to lose tonight is because of CBB...

The only reason?  Please find one person who thinks that we will lose and that Bielema is the only reason for it.

[regi]

Both need to shut up and win. Butch with all his stupid sayings, "Teqm 118". "get 1% better". what does that even mean? Coach B, just shut up, tell Jeff Long to stop with all the hype videos or a team on a 3 game losing streak, no more "1-0", just win. Enough. Bob Stoops' little brother is at a Basketball School laughing at both of you and at Saint Gus.

[Pig in the Pokey]

UT's struggles have actually been worse. Against OU, they had a good first quarter, but after their first drive in the 2nd quarter they only had like 70 more yards the rest of the game. He also made one of the worst coaching decisions I have seen to go for the XP instead of for 2 when they scored a TD to put them up 12 in the 4th. Go for 2 and you can be up 14, and if you don't get it a FG still wins in the even you give up 2 scores. Instead, he kicks the XP and they lose by 1, rightfully so. He has had some really bad coaching decisions. UT has had big time recruits commit to them over the last few years, but still cannot produce on the field. At least we have the injuries excuse.

Bielema did the same thing against Bama. Went for the PAT to go up 6. It was like he just wanted to prove we could hit a PAT after we missed the first one. Oh the arogance to think that one little point wouldn't matter. It was stupid, stupid, stupid, and we deserved to lose by 1. THAT'S COACHING, right there, and the kind of thing
Badger fans warned us about.

[Razorfox]

The only reason?  Please find one person who thinks that we will lose and that Bielema is the only reason for it.

Look through the threads on the front page right now.  It's not hard to find people saying essentially, "we lose because of CBB". 

[jry04]

Bielema did the same thing against Bama. Went for the PAT to go up 6. It was like he just wanted to prove we could hit a PAT after we missed the first one. Oh the arogance to think that one little point wouldn't matter. It was stupid, stupid, stupid, and we deserved to lose by 1. THAT'S COACHING, right there, and the kind of thing
Badger fans warned us about.

Bielema did it in the 3rd quarter, with almost 20 minutes left in the game. Considerably different than what Butch did. Most coaches will wait until the 4th to go for 2. Tennessee did it with 10 minutes left.

Hindsight, Bielema probably should have gone for 2 as well, but kicking the XP in the 3rd quarter is a decision most coaches would have made. If it were the 4th, he should have gone for 2.

[Rocky Mountain Hog]

Butch hasn't set the world on fire, but the Vols have played at least one tough OOC opponents each year. They've lost to Oregon and Oklahoma (x2.) We have not played that great of a OOC schedule, but yet have lost to Rutgers, Toledo and Tech (iffy.)

Butch went 2-6, 3-5 respectively in his first two SEC seasons. Bielema went 0-8, 2-6.

He has also won on the road in the SEC. Bielema has not.

Butch has won 3 games in the SEC that were within one score. Bielema has 0 in the SEC and OOC. Both coaches have shown the ability to throw a game away in the 4th, but their coach has also shown the ability to win the game.

I'm not high on Butch Jones, but I do give him the slight edge over Bielema in a head to head matchup.

[HogPharmer]

It's a lot easier to pull conference wins when you play Vandy and Kentucky. I know Kentucky is getting better, but they're still Kentucky.

[Razorfox]

Butch hasn't set the world on fire, but the Vols have played at least one tough OOC opponents each year. They've lost to Oregon and Oklahoma (x2.) We have not played that great of a OOC schedule, but yet have lost to Rutgers, Toledo and Tech (iffy.)

Butch went 2-6, 3-5 respectively in his first two SEC seasons. Bielema went 0-8, 2-6.

He has also won on the road in the SEC. Bielema has not.

Butch has won 3 games in the SEC that were within one score. Bielema has 0 in the SEC and OOC. Both coaches have shown the ability to throw a game away in the 4th, but their coach has also shown the ability to win the game.

I'm not high on Butch Jones, but I do give him the slight edge over Bielema in a head to head matchup.

CBJ lost to Rutgers in 2011 and Toledo in 2012 (his banner years as a HC, by the way) if that makes you feel any better.

And yes, even though they have played a little tougher OOC schedule, their much weaker in-conference schedule the past three years certainly makes up for it. 

[HogPharmer]

CBJ lost to Rutgers in 2011 and Toledo in 2012 (his banner years as a HC, by the way) if that makes you feel any better.

And yes, even though they have played a little tougher OOC schedule, their much weaker in-conference schedule the past three years certainly makes up for it.

I'd rather lose to that Rutgers team than to Vandy (like he did in 2013).

[jry04]

Butch hasn't set the world on fire, but the Vols have played at least one tough OOC opponents each year. They've lost to Oregon and Oklahoma (x2.) We have not played that great of a OOC schedule, but yet have lost to Rutgers, Toledo and Tech (iffy.)

Butch went 2-6, 3-5 respectively in his first two SEC seasons. Bielema went 0-8, 2-6.

He has also won on the road in the SEC. Bielema has not.

Butch has won 3 games in the SEC that were within one score. Bielema has 0 in the SEC and OOC. Both coaches have shown the ability to throw a game away in the 4th, but their coach has also shown the ability to win the game.

I'm not high on Butch Jones, but I do give him the slight edge over Bielema in a head to head matchup.

Arkansas has played a top 5 SOS in each of Bielema's first 2 years. Today is the first game in which Bielema is facing an unranked SEC opponent since we played Mississippi State in 2013. I can say with confidence that Arkansas would have won on the road against Vandy, UK, and SC in years they all won 6 games or less in the East, too. Those 3 teams were pretty bad. Neither coach is setting the world on fire, but Butch has been able to recruit much better talent, but has about equal results overall.

[Rocky Mountain Hog]

It's a lot easier to pull conference wins when you play Vandy and Kentucky. I know Kentucky is getting better, but they're still Kentucky.

The Vols beat #11 South Carolina in Jones' first year. If you'll remember, SC beat us quite easily that year.

The conversation about east vs west strength is a valid point, but not when you lose to the east in every game and finish dead last in your division each year.

Luckily, this game won't be decided on paper or by past games. The Hogs will come to play.

[Rocky Mountain Hog]

I'd rather lose to that Rutgers team than to Vandy (like he did in 2013).

Vandy went 9-4 in Franklin's last year. They were good.

[lefty08]

Vandy went 9-4 un Franklin's last year. They were decent good.

[HogPharmer]

The Vols beat #11 South Carolina in Jones' first year. If you'll remember, SC beat us quite easily that year.

The conversation about east vs west strength is a valid point, but not when you lose to the east in every game and finish dead last in your division each year.

Luckily, this game won't be decided on paper or by past games. The Hogs will come to play.

I sure hope so... I don't even care about our record anymore. I just want to win a game.

[carolinahogger]

Look through the threads on the front page right now.  It's not hard to find people saying essentially, "we lose because of CBB".

ONLY reason.  Find one of those.  Otherwise this is ONLY another stupid straw man argument thread.

[Razorfox]

ONLY reason.  Find one of those.  Otherwise this is ONLY another stupid straw man argument thread.

OK, here are two comments from one thread that I found with about 30 seconds of effort:

Agree.....there will be a huge chink in CBB armour tomorrow.  35-24 Tenner

Just have no faith in BB winning a big road game.  Agree

[carolinahogger]

OK, here are two comments from one thread that I found with about 30 seconds of effort:

Agree.....there will be a huge chink in CBB armour tomorrow.  35-24 Tenner

Just have no faith in BB winning a big road game.  Agree

And you can't comprehend that neither of those statements are even close to expressing that BB is the only reason that we will lose?

only - solely or exclusively

From the original post: "For those of you that think the only reason we are going to lose tonight is because of CBB..."

[Razorfox]

And you can't comprehend that neither of those statements are even close to expressing that BB is the only reason that we will lose?

only - solely or exclusively

From the original post: "For those of you that think the only reason we are going to lose tonight is because of CBB..."

Oh so, have no faith in CBB winning on the road actually means:

have no faith in BA executing on the road while the defense plays good enough and the OL blocks well enough. 

Gotcha. 

[Cinco de Hogo]

Are we all strawmen?

[carolinahogger]

Oh so, have no faith in CBB winning on the road actually means:

have no faith in BA executing on the road while the defense plays good enough and the OL blocks well enough. 

Gotcha.

lol, you are full of intellectually sloppy arguments.

[COACHINTEXAS]

If Jones is smart, he'll spread the field and operate no huddle since we don't like that style. i hope we can pull one out, but I don't like our chances.

[lefty08]

If Jones is smart, he'll spread the field and operate no huddle since we don't like that style. i hope we can pull one out, but I don't like our chances.

Yep, if he is smart he will completely change his offensive philosophy this game

[Razorfox]

lol, you are full of intellectually sloppy arguments.

BS.  Had he written, "I don't trust BA to lead us to a 4th quarter comeback", it would have actually meant all those things to include penalties, coaching, etc?   That's what you want me to believe?

[carolinahogger]

BS.  Had he written, "I don't trust BA to lead us to a 4th quarter comeback", it would have actually meant all those things to include penalties, coaching, etc?   That's what you want me to believe?

No.  If he had posted that then I would have thought that he didn't trust BA to lead us to a 4th quarter comeback.

Am I arguing with women here?  Because if that is the case, then I understand perfectly.

Back to the original post.  NOBODY has posted "the only reason we are going to lose tonight is because of CBB."  If you disagree then link the post.  Otherwise, just respond with a "well you just think..."

[Razorfox]

No.  If he had posted that then I would have thought that he didn't trust BA to lead us to a 4th quarter comeback.

Am I arguing with women here?  Because if that is the case, then I understand perfectly.

Back to the original post.  NOBODY has posted "the only reason we are going to lose tonight is because of CBB."  If you disagree then link the post.  Otherwise, just respond with a "well you just think..."

No, you're arguing with a man that understands words (or lack thereof) mean things and believes in a bit of precision when it comes to language.  Apparently that is not the case with you.  I'm done.   

[hawgmasta]

Bret and Butch seem to be pretty similar I just wish CBB recruited as well as CBJ; but there's a ton of factors that go into it that we all know. Especially the fact it's a 3-5 hour drive to the Carolina's, ATL, and Nashville metro areas which is tens of millions of people.

[Razorfox]

Bret and Butch seem to be pretty similar I just wish CBB recruited as well as CBJ; but there's a ton of factors that go into it that we all know. Especially the fact it's a 3-5 hour drive to the Carolina's, ATL, and Nashville metro areas which is tens of millions of people.

Tennessee always seems to recruit well, no matter who the coach.  It drives me nuts.

[Hog N Bama]

CBB vs. CBJ in a boxing ring. Ain't even close. That's how this game will turn out. CBB stomps Sargent Carter. :razorback:

[tophawg19]

one leans more toward speed in recruiting . the other in size and power . we shall see who is furter along in the rebuild process .

[wachhog]

So, even if you are proven right, we should take joy in being second worse?

[wachhog]

CBB vs. CBJ in a boxing ring. Ain't even close. That's how this game will turn out. CBB stomps Sargent Carter. :razorback:

Notice you posted this about an hour BEFORE we kicked off.