When do you Structure a $15 Million Buyout for a Coach?

[lefty08]

Well if attendance drops next year by 10-15 thousand a game as well as donations by many RF members I can see easily losing 5 + million in revenue next year and again the year after. I doubt he's gonna get canned this year but what if we go 0-8 in conference this year. How can anyone reasonably expect us to believe he is the right man for the job if that happens ? Cut your losses now and move on if we are winless in SEC play. I know that won't happen but that's what I think should happen.

What if we win out?  We have played 4 games.....let the season play out. Stop with the ifs

[ChitownHawg]

What if we win out?  We have played 4 games.....let the season play out. Stop with the ifs

We are not winning out. 2 to 3 more wins will be difficult. Sad that a positive will be if we can match last year's record. No progress forward. Most likely record will be worse than last year.

How do you justify that?

[lefty08]

We are not winning out. 2 to 3 more wins will be difficult. Sad that a positive will be if we can match last year's record. No progress forward. Most likely record will be worse than last year.

How do you justify that?

I don't think so either. The point is, we are 4 games into a 12 game season. All some want to talk about are unknowns

[ImHogginIt]

What if we win out?  We have played 4 games.....let the season play out. Stop with the ifs

This is a message board. That's what we do 
I would love for us to win out. At this point though for me to get back on the CBB bandwagon we need to go 4-4 and then sign one or two big time RB's and several more big time OL. That's not too much for me to ask for.

[hogcard1964]

This is a message board. That's what we do 
I would love for us to win out. At this point though for me to get back on the CBB bandwagon we need to go 4-4 and then sign one or two big time RB's and several more big time OL. That's not too much for me to ask for.

5-7 isn't going to cut it.

[ImHogginIt]

5-7 isn't going to cut it.

I'm trying my best to be positive being that we likely are going to have him here for a fourth year... give me a break please ! 

[hogcard1964]

I'm trying my best to be positive being that we likely are going to have him here for a fourth year... give me a break please ! 

Understood, but there's no reason we should be worse this year than last season.  That's not progress.

[ImHogginIt]

Understood, but there's no reason we should be worse this year than last season.  That's not progress.

I agree with you but some here on this board who I know I can respect say he's here next year no matter what so I'm trying my best to be positive. Less than 4-4 ( includes UT Martin for pete's sake) the rest of the year and I'm gonna bash the man on here until my account is deleted.

[hogcard1964]

I agree with you but some here on this board who I know I can respect say he's here next year no matter what so I'm trying my best to be positive. Less than 4-4 ( includes UT Martin for pete's sake) the rest of the year and I'm gonna bash the man on here until my account is deleted.

Don't confuse "bashing" with honesty.  As long as you don't make it personal, you won't get banned.  Just post facts.

[code red]

When you have no intention of it ever being an issue.

Think about it this way. What if Bielema really is Jeff Long's guy, and Long has given him five or six years...results in year 3 be darned? Lot of folks getting their blood pressure up for nothing.

Maybe, in a microwave world, Long has decided to take an old-school approach.

If he goes 0-SEC and lays a egg next year it will be both of them gone.

[code red]

I agree with you but some here on this board who I know I can respect say he's here next year no matter what so I'm trying my best to be positive. Less than 4-4 ( includes UT Martin for pete's sake) the rest of the year and I'm gonna bash the man on here until my account is deleted.

I don't see 4 wins.  We look undisciplined.  We beat ourselves.

[hogsanity]

I have not read the thread, but to the question posed in the title, I would say NEVER.

[Redhogs]

I would call that a dumb AD. A good AD always hedges his bets on his new coaches leaving himself an out in the very likelihood that it doesn't workout and you are forced to make a move and replace the coach. In no way should you lock yourself to a coach who hasn't produced anything and is in the process of setting new lows for your program. I can't think of a single other AD who has done this without seeing some on the field results before hand.

How dare you...didn't you get the memo? Long....the best, smartest, AD in the history of college athletics...we are the luckiest program in the country to have him....hell, give him a raise so nobody steals him.  We're right on schedule! sarcasm/off

[hawgon]

Long wanted his guy and he saw this buyout as a way of keeping the masses who want to win in check.  What Long didn't count on and will be highly surprised when it happens (if he is still here) is his support evaporating as Bielema's record tanks. 

[Ex-Trumpet]

Long wanted his guy and he saw this buyout as a way of keeping the masses who want to win in check.  What Long didn't count on and will be highly surprised when it happens (if he is still here) is his support evaporating as Bielema's record tanks. 

Long wants to keep the masses who want to win in check?

[urkillnmesmalls]

Long wanted his guy and he saw this buyout as a way of keeping the masses who want to win in check.  What Long didn't count on and will be highly surprised when it happens (if he is still here) is his support evaporating as Bielema's record tanks.

Take the tinfoil hat off dude.  I want to make sure I have this right.  You're saying that Long expects CBB to lose, so he pushed the buyout through to protect him from all of the "masses" who are expecting us to win games? 

Have you been drinking a little early today?  There isn't a faster way for Jeff Long to fall out of favor, and BELIEVE ME, he has a LOT of favor, than to have CBB fail, because by all accounts, he lined up and made this hire with nothing more than a rubber stamp at the end for approval.

What's next, some sort of conspiracy that Jeff is in cahoots with CBB, and that BB has guaranteed him $7M of the buyout in an offshore bank account when he cans him?  That's grassy knoll kinda stuff!!   

[hawgon]

Take the tinfoil hat off dude.  I want to make sure I have this right.  You're saying that Long expects CBB to lose, so he pushed the buyout through to protect him from all of the "masses" who are expecting us to win games? 

Have you been drinking a little early today?  There isn't a faster way for Jeff Long to fall out of favor, and BELIEVE ME, he has a LOT of favor, than to have CBB fail, because by all accounts, he lined up and made this hire with nothing more than a rubber stamp at the end for approval.

What's next, some sort of conspiracy that Jeff is in cahoots with CBB, and that BB has guaranteed him $7M of the buyout in an offshore bank account when he cans him?  That's grassy knoll kinda stuff!!

I'm saying, that the only logical reason for giving a guy a buyout that big is that Long and Bielema are operating on a longer plan than they have told the rest of us. 

[Ex-Trumpet]

I'm saying, that the only logical reason for giving a guy a buyout that big is that Long and Bielema are operating on a longer plan than they have told the rest of us. 

You can't possibly believe that Long gave a $15M buyout all on his own...pretty sure the Razorback Foundation might have ok'ed it before it was offered.

[ricepig]

You can't possibly believe that Long gave a $15M buyout all on his own...pretty sure the Razorback Foundation might have ok'ed it before it was offered.

All contracts for coaches are approved by the BOT, also.

[hawgon]

You can't possibly believe that Long gave a $15M buyout all on his own...pretty sure the Razorback Foundation might have ok'ed it before it was offered.

Oh, I know they are approved.  But, I doubt a lot of discussion went into it.  The Foundation and the BOT tend to do what the athletic director asks, unless they have a good reason to do otherwise.

And for whatever it is worth, they are all a bunch of idiots for approving a contract extension for a coach like that who had basically accomplished nothing at Arkansas.

[Ex-Trumpet]

Oh, I know they are approved.  But, I doubt a lot of discussion went into it.  The Foundation and the BOT tend to do what the athletic director asks, unless they have a good reason to do otherwise.

Lots might think of $15M reasons to do otherwise...I just get a kick out of reading folks' complaining about JL and "his" $15M buyout!!

[hawgon]

Lots might think of $15M reasons to do otherwise...I just get a kick out of reading folks' complaining about JL and "his" $15M buyout!!

Well, I know one of the BOT guys and he is generally...not smart.  He is cagey and political, but not too accomplished.

[urkillnmesmalls]

All contracts for coaches are approved by the BOT, also.

Not on Hogville sir.  You're seriously underestimating the amount of tin foil that is in play.  To recap....Long was FORCED to hire BP by outside influence, but fired him completely on his own with no outside influence, hired CBB completely on his own without even so much as a need for approval, and he approves every salary increase and new contract all on his own. 

He has absolute power to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.  He's secretly the BOT, and the members are just figure heads.  /sarcasm   

[Sportster365]

Remember Toledo

[urkillnmesmalls]

Well, I know one of the BOT guys and he is generally...not smart.  He is cagey and political, but not too accomplished.

How much of that bottle is left?   

[Ex-Trumpet]

Not on Hogville sir.  You're seriously underestimating the amount of tin foil that is in play.  To recap....Long was FORCED to hire BP by outside influence, but fired him completely on his own with no outside influence, hired CBB completely on his own without even so much as a need for approval, and he approves every salary increase and new contract all on his own. 

He has absolute power to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.  He's secretly the BOT, and the members are just figure heads.  /sarcasm   

Glad you are finally understanding this simple fact!

[hawgon]

How much of that bottle is left?   

The next time I see his best friend, we'll start talking Razorback football, and I'll get a pretty good gauge on how at least one member of the BOT feels about BB and Long.

[HogimusMaximus]

Maybe, maybe not. The question is irrelevant, because it only matters what one man is inclined to do.

That man is Jeff Long.

Sometimes brutal honesty is needed.

I think you mean what the boosters are inclined to do.

[ricepig]

Well, I know one of the BOT guys and he is generally...not smart.  He is cagey and political, but not too accomplished.

Sure you do.......

[hawgon]

Sure you do.......

Yep, I do.  But unlike you, I don't pretend he tells me juicy little tidbits.

[ricepig]

Yep, I do.  But unlike you, I don't pretend he tells me juicy little tidbits.

Oh, ok, you're telling the truth, nobody else is.......

[cmphill87]

I'm a statistics guy as they are black and white and unbiased. I took a look at CBB, Bobby Petrino in his first 3 years at Arkansas, Butch Jones at Tennessee, Mark Stoops at Kentucky and for the heck of it Charlie Strong.

Heres the Numbers:
Bret Beilema through 29 Games
Overall record: 11-18 or 34% wins
SEC Record: 2-15 (yes that's horrifying when typed out) or 12% wins. 

Bobby Pertrino through 29 Games
Overall Record: 16-13 or 55% wins
SEC Record: 7-13 or 35% wins
Petrino went 8-5 in his second season at Arkansas and a Bowl game, and in year three went to the Sugar Bowl.

Butch Jones through 29 games:
Overall Record: 14-15 or 48% wins
SEC Record: 5-17 or 23% wins

Mark Stoops through 28 games:
Overall Record: 10-18 or 36%
SEC record: 4-15 or 21%
Kentucky has seen noticeable improvement year to year; Mark Stoops went 2-8 in year one. Similar to Brets 3-9 opening season, but things are looking up for Mark. Admittly they are in the east, but shouldn't the Razorbacks be on another level than Kentucky?

Charlie Strong over over 10 games:
Since he is being questioned in Texas, I thought I'd throw his name in here for comparison.
Overall Record: 7-10 or 41% wins
Big 12 Record: 5-5 or 50% wins.
His numbers dont sound near as bad do they? Especially when you mention Bret at 11% conference wins???

If Arkansas continues down this road, Arkansas will be the bottom dweller of the SEC, and that disgusts me.

[GolfnHog]

The next time I see his best friend, we'll start talking Razorback football, and I'll get a pretty good gauge on how at least one member of the BOT feels about BB and Long.

and when you do and come back to report the findings will it be an objective assessment or slanted towards your tone today? I'm looking forward to that lil bit of "insider" info.

[Hogs-n-Roses]

Well if attendance drops next year by 10-15 thousand a game as well as donations by many RF members I can see easily losing 5 + million in revenue next year and again the year after. I doubt he's gonna get canned this year but what if we go 0-8 in conference this year. How can anyone reasonably expect us to believe he is the right man for the job if that happens ? Cut your losses now and move on if we are winless in SEC play. I know that won't happen but that's what I think should happen.

They would never admit or release that info. Its like the age old announcing of 71,000 when you look around and theres 58 tops prolly lower. I know I know they were bought tickets by season ticket holders. But over 10,000 of them? Numbers and stats can always be twisted to fit an agenda and not necessarily be a flat lie.

[hawgon]

and when you do and come back to report the findings will it be an objective assessment or slanted towards your tone today? I'm looking forward to that lil bit of "insider" info.

Sure. 

[ricepig]

They would never admit or release that info. Its like the age old announcing of 71,000 when you look around and theres 58 tops prolly lower. I know I know they were bought tickets by season ticket holders. But over 10,000 of them? Numbers and stats can always be twisted to fit an agenda and not necessarily be a flat lie.

The season ticket number is known every year, we sold 45,000+ this year.

[WilsonHog]

I think you mean what the boosters are inclined to do.

At the highest levels, perhaps. Although, Long has purposely done a pretty fair job of not being beholden to them. The river of money from television and membership in the SEC has allowed him to do so. Much less influence than in the days of JFB.

I realize that most fans - because of their emotional and for them large financial investment - want to believe that they have some real influence, that what they want and think about Razorback football matters.

It does not, and more so now than ever before, because of money from outside sources. The money lost by a handful of folks deciding not to contribute or attend is more than offset by other revenue, and that is the bottom line - revenue.

That's why I always laugh when a poster says, "That's IT! I'll never spend another dime!!" Meanwhile, the powers that be do not even know who the guy is.

[Hogs-n-Roses]

The season ticket number is known every year, we sold 45,000+ this year.

Wasn't it 50,000 last year.

[ricepig]

Wasn't it 50,000 last year.

Nope, 2012 was our high of a little over 50,000 which I believe is a sellout after factoring in student seats, and seats reserved for our visiting SEC opponents.

[Hogs-n-Roses]

Nope, 2012 was our high of a little over 50,000 which I believe is a sellout after factoring in student seats, and seats reserved for our visiting SEC opponents.

Timing makes sense.

[urkillnmesmalls]

The next time I see his best friend, we'll start talking Razorback football, and I'll get a pretty good gauge on how at least one member of the BOT feels about BB and Long.

Well, be sure you report back, but I'm not sure why it matters.  It's obvious that the collective expertise on Hogville has already clarified that the BOT does nothing, and Jeff Long does it all himself.  So...why does it matter what the guy you know who is the best friend of a BOT member, who you already said isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, has to say about it? 

[urkillnmesmalls]

At the highest levels, perhaps. Although, Long has purposely done a pretty fair job of not being beholden to them. The river of money from television and membership in the SEC has allowed him to do so. Much less influence than in the days of JFB.

I realize that most fans - because of their emotional and for them large financial investment - want to believe that they have some real influence, that what they want and think about Razorback football matters.

It does not, and more so now than ever before, because of money from outside sources. The money lost by a handful of folks deciding not to contribute or attend is more than offset by other revenue, and that is the bottom line - revenue.

That's why I always laugh when a poster says, "That's IT! I'll never spend another dime!!" Meanwhile, the powers that be do not even know who the guy is.

Exactly!  "That's it, I'm turning in my fan card."  "Uhhhh, OK.  I wasn't even aware that they were issuing those any longer."   

[ricepig]

Timing makes sense.

Yep, this year was a 2.3% increase over last year, as of the first game, and I doubt there has been much of a change since then, haha.

[WilsonHog]

Exactly!  "That's it, I'm turning in my fan card."  "Uhhhh, OK.  I wasn't even aware that they were issuing those any longer."   

Hey, I did get a really spiffy pin for my lapel from the Razorback Foundation for being a 30-year member. Hell, I bet it cost at least 12 cents to produce. 

[urkillnmesmalls]

Hey, I did get a really spiffy pin for my lapel from the Razorback Foundation for being a 30-year member. Hell, I bet it cost at least 12 cents to produce. 

Nice!  It's like buying some gadget or adapter online that costs $.77, but it costs $5.00 for shipping.  You can't get it local, so there you are, clicking the PayPal button, questioning your sanity.   

[East Clintwood]

if we are building for the next 2-3 years, then why are we not giving anyone else a chance under center?  BA has shown us what he has.. this season is going nowhere.  why not get the next guy ready for next year... so that next year we dont have to listen to "well we are breaking in a new QB now"

Well, it could be that our coach is saving that "breaking in a new QB excuse" because he figures he'll need it next year.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Well, it could be that our coach is saving that "breaking in a new QB excuse" because he figures he'll need it next year.

OK...that's funny, even if you're not in the camp of firing CBB no later than halftime of Toledo.   

[Oliver]

Well, it could be that our coach is saving that "breaking in a new QB excuse" because he figures he'll need it next year.

Good point.  That's the excuse for a below 6 win season next year.  If we win 6, well we've turned the corner...again

[urkillnmesmalls]

Good point.  That's the excuse for a below 6 win season next year.  If we win 6, well we've turned the corner...again

I never expected to see the day that I would read a post like this and think to myself, "How many games can we win next year? "Do we play Toledo again?"   

[East Clintwood]

I never expected to see the day that I would read a post like this and think to myself, "How many games can we win next year? "Do we play Toledo again?"   

No, next year's most embarrassing loss will be to Alcorn State.