Welcome to Hogville!      Do Not Sell My Personal Information

UNC COI results and punishment.

Started by rhog1, October 05, 2017, 10:11:37 am

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Kevin

after today's ruling, time to set up a fake degree, put all the athletes in it, and a few common students. the ncaa says that is legal
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

WooPigFarm

I want to thank all the people in charge of this decision! I am inspired by their leadership!

To the adults in that room -  you proved things can be done the right way!


 

sickboy

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on October 13, 2017, 01:19:27 pm
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/918859772807454720

Yikes. I guess give the kid credit for not plagiarizing. But seriously, that's an education system that has failed that kid. And when he doesn't make millions in football or basketball, he's screwed.

Inhogswetrust

Ever since Emmert became the head of the NCAA it has become a paper tiger in enforcement and penalties.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

perfectgame

there may not have been an advantage between unc ath and unc students. but theres damn sure one over other ncaa schools that dont do that bs!!

hogwood

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on October 13, 2017, 01:19:27 pm
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/918859772807454720

What a joke. What these kids need is to actually go to college, not even play basketball. Their lives might be better off. Jesus.

Ironhawg

It's time for the crooked NCAA to go bye bye.  If we're going to have student athletes, they need to be student athletes.  No respect for the NCAA after this.

greasy_corner

Quote from: Kevin on October 13, 2017, 02:50:28 pm
after today's ruling, time to set up a fake degree, put all the athletes in it, and a few common students. the ncaa says that is legal

Why punish the kids?  Let UNC swim in their own darn.

greasy_corner

Quote from: cram224 on October 13, 2017, 02:20:26 pm
UNC spent $18M to defend their case. Money talks.

Lot's of UNC fans beating their chest today.  They won!  Or did they?  Pretty sad.

I think the amount of money the NCAA gets from the UNC Bball team (via the tourney) played the largest role in this decision. 

OS2 (SW) Razor Back

The Giants win the penent!!!!!The Giants win the penent!!!
Today, I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of the Earth.
I can't believe what I just saw!!!!
Down goes Frazier!!!! Down goes Frazier!!!
Do you believe in miricles?!?!?!

Kevin

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

onebadrubi

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on October 13, 2017, 04:29:27 pm
Ever since Emmert became the head of the NCAA it has become a paper tiger in enforcement and penalties.

I've said it many times on here, Emmert is a scam.  Look at his history, he wrecks everywhere he's been!!!  He is the definition of a DA and you alwasy wonder how he gets his jobs. 

HamIAm

I think someone has been messing with his wikipedia page.

QuoteMark Allen Emmert (born December 16, 1952) is the current president of the National Collegiate Athletic Association and executive consultant for the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

 

HognitiveDissonance

Quote from: Kevin on October 13, 2017, 02:43:24 pm
https://sports.yahoo.com/north-carolina-ruling-proves-ncaa-useless-162457632.html
Yep. Glad national pundits see this and the NCAA for what it is.
I'll admit when I'm wrong. I was confident UNC would get hit with something significant on this.
My opinion on UNC has also changed overnight. They used to be one of my favorite programs, but not anymore. Even while beating Ark three straight NCAA appearances, my opinion on UNC was not affected; as long as it's fair and square I respect it.
But in this case UNC has shown an Auburn-like ability to lawyer-up, tap-dance, and exploit every loophole known to man in order to win more games. And that's when my respect is lost.

HoopS

Imagine that. Unc didn't get drilled.

HoopS

Quote from: PharmacistHog on October 08, 2017, 07:36:55 am
How original.
but of course they didn't hit them. That was the point. Kentucky won't get hit either. Or Duke.

311Hog

Quote from: HoopS on October 17, 2017, 09:22:13 am
but of course they didn't hit them. That was the point. Kentucky won't get hit either. Or Duke.
you have to hope that their academic reputation suffers.  I found it interesting that they changed their story AFTER their accreditation hearings were completed.  There has to be some kind of investigation into that. 

I mean i doubt it because everything seems to have devolved into a money grab these days.

311Hog

Quote from: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 10:44:10 am
I really didn't care about or pay attention to the UNC stuff but after reading the facts of the case, they shouldn't have gotten any penalties.  It was an NCAA witch hunt!  Since when has the NCAA dictated to ANY University what courses they can or can't teach?  The course has been taught at UNC for years, it's in the course catalog, and is open to and taken by any UNC student.  Have you looked at UA's course catalog?  There are plenty of bird courses listed in it!  Much ado over nothing!

while yes i agree about the NCAA, i am fairly certain there are no courses in the UA catalog that you do not have to attend any classes and all you have to do is turn in two papers that a 5th grader would laugh at.

There are governing bodies that "accredit" institutions of higher learning. During those hearings UNC admitted that these classes were wrong, but still it speaks directly to this bogus idea that these kids "get a free education" and therefore have no claim to the millions and millions of dollars they are directly responsible for,  no they don't get educated except in exploitation they get a useless piece of paper.

onebadrubi

Quote from: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 10:44:10 am
I really didn't care about or pay attention to the UNC stuff but after reading the facts of the case, they shouldn't have gotten any penalties.  It was an NCAA witch hunt!  Since when has the NCAA dictated to ANY University what courses they can or can't teach?  The course has been taught at UNC for years, it's in the course catalog, and is open to and taken by any UNC student.  Have you looked at UA's course catalog?  There are plenty of bird courses listed in it!  Much ado over nothing!

The class was setup for athletes to sign up for and have to spend a total of 10 minutes a semester doing.  That is a negative by what the NCAA stands for. 

311Hog

Quote from: onebadrubi on October 17, 2017, 10:55:26 am
The class was setup for athletes to sign up for and have to spend a total of 10 minutes a semester doing.  That is a negative by what the NCAA stands for. 

Right but luckily for them they did not prevent non athletes from taking the classes and thus removing the "exclusively" for athletes part it is the Kentucky Lodge loop hole.

onebadrubi

Quote from: 311Hog on October 17, 2017, 11:00:33 am
Right but luckily for them they did not prevent non athletes from taking the classes and thus removing the "exclusively" for athletes part it is the Kentucky Lodge loop hole.

That's because they wanted them to get off.  The good thing about the NCAA is they can make it up as they go, but they don't have any integrity or really care about what they were founded for.  The right thing to do was punish UNC for this, they did nothing because UNC is a national spotlight team. 

So by definition, we could have a local business pay athletes on his pay roll for not working so long as he pays "regular" students? 

311Hog

Quote from: onebadrubi on October 17, 2017, 11:08:09 am
That's because they wanted them to get off.  The good thing about the NCAA is they can make it up as they go, but they don't have any integrity or really care about what they were founded for.  The right thing to do was punish UNC for this, they did nothing because UNC is a national spotlight team. 

So by definition, we could have a local business pay athletes on his pay roll for not working so long as he pays "regular" students? 

Something like that yeah, though i think payment is a problem that strays from this loophole.  As i believe it doesn't matter athlete non athlete when "paid" by an outside the School source for non work.

More like golf cart shuttle service for athletes but the tutors can also use them, or like Kentucky a giant luxurious dorm with every amenity you can imagine that houses "mostly" UK basketball players but also has non athlete managers etc. and thus it wasn't built exclusively for the athlete.

That is all they are there to try and "stop" is schools building and doing things that could be called "extra" benefits exclusive for their use.


onebadrubi

Quote from: 311Hog on October 17, 2017, 11:42:51 am
Something like that yeah, though i think payment is a problem that strays from this loophole.  As i believe it doesn't matter athlete non athlete when "paid" by an outside the School source for non work.

More like golf cart shuttle service for athletes but the tutors can also use them, or like Kentucky a giant luxurious dorm with every amenity you can imagine that houses "mostly" UK basketball players but also has non athlete managers etc. and thus it wasn't built exclusively for the athlete.

That is all they are there to try and "stop" is schools building and doing things that could be called "extra" benefits exclusive for their use.

There is nothing wrong with a local business paying 6 students from the U of A?  Working or not? 

311Hog

Quote from: onebadrubi on October 17, 2017, 11:56:55 am
There is nothing wrong with a local business paying 6 students from the U of A?  Working or not? 

my understanding is if 6 students 3 athletes 3 non athletes are paid the same for the same "work" then yeah NCAA probably would not say anything though the involvement of cash would complicate it more than an "ancillary" benefit like a blow off class or building access would.

 

311Hog

Quote from: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 01:09:27 pm
Are you sure?  Music and Art appreciation is in the catalog and the syllabus doesn't mention writing even one paper.  Swimming is in the catalog, no paper on that one either.  UNC did not admit the course was wrong, they admitted it was not properly overseen.  As a matter of fact, UA has a similar course.  So how is offering this particular course wrong?  Is it the subject matter?  News flash, most universities in America offer similar courses.  Now, it's up to the Prof to determine how rigorous the course is but it is obviously an acceptable course because it is not inherent to UNC.  It's time to crawl out of the dark ages and open your mind to the fact that universities are more inclusive than "the south will rise again" Hog fan.  The course wasn't wrong, how it was administered to ALL students at UNC was not acceptable to UNC standards.  That's why the Prof is gone but the course is still offered!

And by the way, my son took art and music appreciation at UA but I don't consider his degree useless being that he is in UA Med School now after deciding between UA, Vanderbilt, and Stanford...  Each of which he was accepted in.  So be careful when you call a degree a worthless piece of paper because you don't like a particular course that's being taught.

it is a worthless piece of paper if the courses you took were basically a hodge podge of "easy classes" in order to get some "generic" diploma for being so condescending you would think you could keep your responses to the topic.  this isn't about your son who is obviously smart and did well in school taking a blow off elective.  The point is "steering" football players that are highly unlikely to even complete their degree into courses that will "keep them eligible" and the practice in general of floating these classes to keep students enrolled a bit longer.  And then trying to pass that off as a "valuable commodity" that justifies not paying the athlete any part of the millions they generate.

Universities are supposed to be hard, they are supposed to produce a valuable product.  And while they and most do, seeing things like this cannot be good for the person getting them nor the students who have degrees from the institution as often people are painted with a broad brush.  And it does nothing for this growing perception that higher education is just an extension of high school for those can afford/indebt themselves, with more parties.

311Hog

Quote from: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 01:18:51 pm
If all of us would slow down, pump the brakes, and take out our hatred for UNC, we could understand the ruling for what it is.  The NCAA infractions committee has ZERO legislation over what courses a university can offer.  The course in question is taught at universities across the nation.  It is on the Prof for not administering the course properly and got canned for it.  It was not set up for athletes, it was set up for all students as an elective!  Would you feel the same way about art or music appreciation?  Those are offered at UA and I specifically remember sitting in my son's apartment after a ballgame before heading home with several of his friends laughing about what a joke both of those courses were.  The context of the conversation, they were comparing GPAs and picking on one guy because he got a B in one of them!

As i said before i agree mostly with your point but it is not zero.  The connection is the prof that you mention that did not "administer" the course properly.  That could have been by design i mean you said it yourself the course had been around for years, and everyone offers some form of it.  NCAA would absolutely have a right to investigate if the professor(s) was instructed to "administer" the class in such away exclusive to athletes THAT would have been a violation, instead others took the class no harm no foul, lawyers say thanks for the 18 mil  oh and the prof is the fall guy so sorry about that.

onebadrubi

Quote from: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 01:18:51 pm
If all of us would slow down, pump the brakes, and take out our hatred for UNC, we could understand the ruling for what it is.  The NCAA infractions committee has ZERO legislation over what courses a university can offer.  The course in question is taught at universities across the nation.  It is on the Prof for not administering the course properly and got canned for it.  It was not set up for athletes, it was set up for all students as an elective!  Would you feel the same way about art or music appreciation?  Those are offered at UA and I specifically remember sitting in my son's apartment after a ballgame before heading home with several of his friends laughing about what a joke both of those courses were.  The context of the conversation, they were comparing GPAs and picking on one guy because he got a B in one of them!

Sure, the U of A has it's share of underwater basket weaving courses, BUT!, Nutt and Petrino both had staff or GA's going from class to class such as Music appreciation taking role.  The students had to show up for these so called BS classes.   Petrino was much harsher on this than Nutt was.  Heath didn't care much and Phelphrey was extremely strict on this. But, no classes were setup at the U of A to explicitly give Athletes a passing grade so they could play sports and not have to worry about their class load.   

311Hog

Quote from: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 01:31:22 pm
I feel your pain but you are basing your argument on personal belief, not reality or fact.  Electives are in place for just that, a student can take any elective and it counts toward their degree because it meets the required hour threshold.  All college students take electives, they are in every course catalog at EVERY school.  So no sir, their degree is not disvalued because a choice of electives are required in order to get the degree.  So if you think most colleges are designed to be hard, you must also accept the fact that there are some electives at every school, that must be taken that are not.  Try swimming in for size, it's an elective offered in the UA catalog.  Guess who enroll in swimming their first semester?  The swim team!  So stop the holier than though crap and move into the 21st century....  Electives have always been a part of 4 year degrees and always will be.  Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.  Sorry but I trust the academia more than I trust you when weighing what should be taught and colleges and what shouldn't.  The Prof who administered the course was lazy and was fired for it.  GOOD!  I would expect the same to happen at UA or any college.  There is nothing to see here folks!

You misunderstand.

1. I have nothing against electives. Legit college courses where you have to actually show up and something anything is taught.  Even the "easiest" of electives is of college level merit.  You mention music alot and swimming.  I would bet you had to go to class and at least swim to get credit there.  Not just sign up, never show up, and then turn in a paragraph paper that says "i swam some on the set of blue lagoon".
2. It isn't my personal belief we see this all time Trump University anyone? schools if you can call them this "preying" on desperate people.  I use the term desperate to cover alot of different types of people, you have people who are in dead end jobs and they are sold on the idea that a "diploma" will change that, you have student athletes that cannot make a living as an athlete because the rules say you have to be a certain age so good luck with that, kids fresh out of high school do not know ace from hole in the ground but what else can they do ? the world says k-12 you are pushed, then dropped off a cliff at 18 so here is college where all your friends are going to basically do high school again but better.

I mean if you know the level off administrative support student athletes receive at the UofA to get a meaningful degree it is amazing, it does sadden me to learn another "legit" school would use all those resources to steer kids to waste their time or pass the time until they are old enough to declare for the league or finally have to take harder classes for a real major and eventually struggle (or not).

onebadrubi

Quote from: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 01:51:20 pm
Have you forgotten the ruling in this case or are you just dead set on your UNC hatred.  The course WAS NOT set up for athletes!  It is a freakin elective!  If the Prof did not require attendance, which is obviously the case, what role is a GA gonna check if the Prof isn't there?  It has been determined that it didn't benefit athletes in a way it didn't benefit any other student who took it.  We don't live in a world of perfection.  Everyone don't do what an employer expect them to do.  That's why there are supervisors at every level of the workforce in America.  Many people are fired for not meeting expectations just like this Prof was so what is the big problem?  Geez Louise!

Just keep being naive. 

hobhog

Notice they announce on a Friday so people won't notice. I didn't.

onebadrubi

Quote from: The ColonelHog on October 19, 2017, 10:41:17 am
Well, you can call it naive, but I've just never been big on conspiracy theories or have doomsday bunkers, tin foil hats, or spend my time watching the sky for aliens or preparing for the zombie apocalypse....  some things are what they are and the facts of the case are that other students took a course that is and has been listed in their course catalog for years, the NCAA can't regulate what courses a college offers, and the Prof didn't do any more for athletes that didn't occur with other students in the course. 

Nothing to see!  Just another NCAA witch hunt.

It's not a witch hunt when you have the athletic department steering kids to classes that don't involve actually doing anything, attending, or requiring anything more than slapping your name on a piece of paper twice to pass.  You want to compare this to the arkansas swim team taking a swimming?  Well, all of the BS classes are arkansas require attendance, daily attendance and the athletic department keeps up with it, that goes for Golf, Swim, music lecture, art lecture, geology, lab, welding, entomology, and there are many more at the u of a as well.  But the funny thing, they required attendance and more than submitting a piece of paper with your name on it to pass. 

Also, U of A athletes had to take core classes each year. 

Don't go to far out of your way to minimize this action.   

jbcarol

 Not Jerry Tipton‏ @NotJerryTipton
3h3 hours ago

Not many college basketball games the last few days because it's Finals Week, and student-athletes are busy studying for and taking exams.

UNC players must be so bored.
Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

grayhawg

Quote from: jbcarol on December 14, 2017, 09:45:17 pm
Not Jerry Tipton‏ @NotJerryTipton
3h3 hours ago

Not many college basketball games the last few days because it's Finals Week, and student-athletes are busy studying for and taking exams.

UNC players must be so bored.

True

jbcarol


Not Jerry Tipton
‏ @NotJerryTipton
Dec 20

LaVar Ball is creating a basketball league for players who don't want to go to college. Ummm, they already have that. It's called "The University of North Carolina."
Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

holeinthewall

Quote from: FineAsSwine on October 05, 2017, 11:08:02 am
If so, I would like to see the FBI literally police college sports full time for five or ten years. No need for taxpayer money, just take a percentage of TV revenues.

The SEC would be in deep trouble with the amount of money funneled to players.

jbcarol

 Ross Martin‏ @RossMartin_IC

UNC throws up a "Classes Are Canceled" graphic on the big screen and immediately blasts "Jump Around." The Dean Dome is ROCKING.


Not Jerry Tipton
‏ @NotJerryTipton
10h10 hours ago

Not Jerry Tipton Retweeted Ross Martin

How can you cancel what doesn't exist? 🤔
Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net