According to ESPN, Arkansas has never won a nat'l championship

[STLhawg]

From http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17336754/alabama-crimson-tide-notre-dame-fighting-irish-ohio-state-buckeyes-oklahoma-sooners-usc-trojans-lead-list-college-football-blue-bloods:

"25. Arkansas Razorbacks | 6.42

Arkansas is without a Heisman Trophy or a national championship. The Razorbacks have never won an SEC conference title and won 13 conference crowns while a member of the Southwest Conference."

ESPN

[KlubhouseKonnected]

Well ESPN kind of sees things their own way, especially from the time before ESPN existed.

Of course we got our 64 title the way BAMA got a lot of theirs... we claimed it.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

What is this ESPN?

[hogman64]

we were  given a version of the NC just like Alabama was given a version in 1964

we were undefeated they were not.

We beat the team that beat them.

we beat two teams ranked higher than any team Alabama beat.

sounds like a NC team to me.

my guess is the espn person doesn't know any of that but that doesn't stop him/her from saying
we haven't won a NC, don't let the facts get in the way....

[factchecker]

Back then the AP and UPI crowned it's champion before the bowl games.  Both Arkansas and Bama were undefeated prior to the bowl games so of course the AP and UPI bent over for the Bear and give the Tide a title.  Arkansas went on to beat Nebraska and Bama lost to Texas, a team whom Arkansas beat earlier in the season.  The Football Writers Association of America voted us as champions so that gives us at least a share of the title.

Funny/sad/maddening enough... the system of choosing the champion was changed a year later. 

I really wouldn't expect any different today.  I hope the SEC prestige would protect us but it wouldn't surprise me that if we went undefeated and won the SEC that the playoff committee would say the conference was down and would pull some bullchit like putting a one loss Texass in over us.

[factchecker]

Moreover, we are considered champions by the NCAA:

http://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fbs

[Hogwild]

The NCAA does not officially recognized any FBS national champions. That website just lists teams that have claimed a national title, USC is on there in '03 & '04 for 'titles' that were stripped because of Bush.

The NCAA has nothing to do with crowning major college football champions. FCS has its own playoff administered by the association. But since 1936, things have been largely subjective at the highest level.

The NCAA's web page listing national champions is just that -- a web page. It is the regurgitation of a list gleaned from somewhere else.
It's also something different than what is listed in the association's football records book.
If you're confused, don't even look at 2004. That year the NCAA website lists a title vacated by the BCS and ignored by the coaches' poll.
In fact, the NCAA had every reason to snub USC.

But in that records book, Auburn was one of four "champions" from 1993. That despite being ineligible for the SEC championship and a bowl because of NCAA improprieties.
Yes, much of this discussion is selective recall. Given the long, sordid infractions history of Auburn, it's strange to see some Tigers referencing the NCAA for championship credibility.

There are 39 polls/indexes on that NCAA website naming champions all the way back to 1869. It's silly enough to believe that Princeton is recognized as a "champion" for beating Rutgers in that first game 144 years ago (so says the National Championship Foundation).

[Jackrabbit Hog]

I'm pretty sure that in the 100 or so seasons that college football has been played and champions have been crowned, there have been 436 national champions.

[theFlyingHog]

I'm pretty sure that in the 100 or so seasons that college football has been played and champions have been crowned, there have been 436 national champions.

This. Right. Here.

[oldbear]

The list was compiled by 10 people from espn. If ten others were chosen, the list would look different. Good fodder for discussion but nothing to sweat. WPS!

[rljjr]

We also were declared the National Champs in the 77 season, beating OU in the 78 Orange Bowl. Who made that declaration?

Me -- and it's still more legit than the Bama title they claimed in 1941.

[Hogwild]

Alabama actually claims an MNC for this season, despite the fact that they were 9-2, ranked #20 in the AP poll, and they finished tied for 5th in the SEC with 8-2 Vanderbilt, who beat them.

This has to be the worst MNC claim of all time, utterly senseless. The claim is based on Alabama finishing #1 in the relatively obscure Houlgate math formula, and it is the only MNC claim a school has made based on Houlgate (Sagarin is far more respected, and no school claims an MNC based on Sagarin).

No school has ever rescinded an MNC claim, so I suppose Alabama is stuck with this one, but it seems to me that it would be much less embarrassing for Alabama to rescind the claim than to continue with their ridiculous "1941 national champions" charade.

[ZERO]

We also were declared the National Champs in the 77 season, beating OU in the 78 Orange Bowl. Who made that declaration?

Me -- and it's still more legit than the Bama title they claimed in 1941.

We Arkansas fans generally never claim the '77 championship, but it IS a legitimate claim from at least one source. It's just we, unlike Bama, realize we weren't truly the champions in 1977, but were in 1964. It's funny how we never claim it even though we could use it more than Bama, but only when we're trying to prove a point.

And they call us a delusional fan base.

[31to6]

Well ESPN kind of sees things their own way, especially from the time before ESPN existed.

Of course we got our 64 title the way BAMA got a lot of theirs... we claimed it.

If we used Alabama math we'd have at least 3.

[bphi11ips]

There has been widespread agreement for 50 years that Arkansas was the NC in 1964.  For a major news source to claim otherwise is silly.

[DeltaBoy]

If we used Alabama math we'd have at least 3.

Yes we would .

[rljjr]

We Arkansas fans generally never claim the '77 championship, but it IS a legitimate claim from at least one source. It's just we, unlike Bama, realize we weren't truly the champions in 1977, but were in 1964. It's funny how we never claim it even though we could use it more than Bama, but only when we're trying to prove a point.

And they call us a delusional fan base.

I agree with you.

[Hogwild]

There has been widespread agreement for 50 years that Arkansas was the NC in 1964.  For a major news source to claim otherwise is silly.

That's the most frustrating thing about all of this.  Now because of these schools claiming every podunk  title they can, sometimes 50 years after the fact, the major outlets are going with "consensus national titles". Since our title wasn't awarded by the AP, Coaches(UPI), BCS, or Playoff, it isn't considered a consensus title.

Just look at our conference, Kentucky just won the 1950 national title in July.  A&M won their first title (AP) in 1939, now they claim three title, the most recent being 1939.  Auburn which recognized their two consensus titles ('57 &'10) attempted to add three more including 1983 & 1993, but the backlash was too great so the AD abandoned the idea. Ole Miss has trophies that they didn't even win. So now the media is lumping our title in with-

Congratulations on winning three AFCA Coaches trophies (sponsored by ADT), Coach Freeze.

A remarkable achievement, considering ADT only sponsored the AFCA Coaches Trophy (awarded to the winner of the Coaches' Poll, which is by contract the winner of the BCS National Championship) from 2003 until 2005, meaning the Rebels put together a national title threepeat. Many had believed the national champions of those seasons to be LSU, USC, and Texas, but this tweet has demonstrated the SEC's title streak is already a decade strong.

[HillBillyHogfan]

According to ESPN Kaitlin Jenner has "courage" and is worthy of an award named after Jimmy V... According to ESPN Chris Berman is a good sportscaster... According to ESPN Mantai Te'o's girlfriend's death inspired him to play harder.

[razorbackmarine]

Just google, "1964 national champions"

That satisfies me

[hawgrunner]

What is this ESPN?

Ha!

[RedSkiesAtNightHog]

We need Wizard of Hogs to send the ESPN writer his famous post explaining all the parameters of the 1964 National Championship and the reasoning as to why Arkansas has the most legitimate claim for the title that year! 

My gosh, when you get a national poll to change their system the very next year (post Bowls), what more proof do you need?

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Don't care what supposedly happened 52 years ago.  52 years.  More than 5 decades. 

Time to win one now.  Way overdue.

[code red]

Don't care what supposedly happened 52 years ago.  52 years.  More than 5 decades. 

Time to win one now.  Way overdue.

So true

[shortend]

What did you expect?  According to Ryan McGee Arkansas will never win the SEC Championship.

[TNRazorbacker]

It's 1964. The fact that anyone gives a shrit speaks volumes to our mediocrity over the last few decades.

[plumbhog]

Then in 65 they changed the rules and did not name a national champion till after the bowl games. We ended the regular season undefeated again but lost our bowl game to LSU.

[BPsTheMan]

[HamIAm]

I recognized Broyles but I had to look the others up.  On the left is Tim Cohane of Look Magazine and on the right is UA President David Mullins

http://www.uark.edu/features/a-national-championship-that-changed-college-football.php

[Bubba's Bruisers]

It's 1964. The fact that anyone gives a shrit speaks volumes to our mediocrity over the last few decades.

What I was thinking too. 

[HamIAm]

What I was thinking too. 

The fact that you think this way tells me you are still relatively young.  Enjoy your time, but don't demean the accomplishments of the past.

[AirWarren]

I can agree with those. It's like high schools claiming state titles. In 1964, it was the same way. No legitimate way of determining a true "national champion".

So, I know all the older people will get mad and cry for a lynching. But as a younger hog fan, that "championship" isn't significant to me.

[Hogwild]

Then in 65 they changed the rules and did not name a national champion till after the bowl games. We ended the regular season undefeated again but lost our bowl game to LSU.

In 1965, top ranked Michigan State would lose to UCLA in the Rose Bowl while #2 Arkansas was upset by Louisiana State in the Cotton Bowl, #4 Alabama defeated #3 Nebraska and vaulted to consecutive national titles. 

Michigan State was named the national champions by the coaches, via the UPI poll, who still conducted their voting prior to the bowl games. This would lead to the first split national title since the 1957 season (Auburn and Ohio State). In an attempt to avoid disputed national titles the Associated Press, would revert to pre-bowl voting until both organization agreed to post bowl voting in 1968.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

The fact that you think this way tells me you are still relatively young.  Enjoy your time, but don't demean the accomplishments of the past.

Not demeaning anything.  I'd like some more recent accomplishments, though.  It's unfortunate that 1964 is still about the only thing we have to point to as being a meaningful accomplishment.  Other than beating OU in 1977 it seems.  That's not demeaning the accomplishment.  It's recognizing the following 5+ decades of overall mediocrity.

I can agree with those. It's like high schools claiming state titles. In 1964, it was the same way. No legitimate way of determining a true "national champion".

So, I know all the older people will get mad and cry for a lynching. But as a younger hog fan, that "championship" isn't significant to me.

And if I recall, there were several organizations at the time who declared the champion.  I think we were only recognized as champs by one of those.  So, I assume when ESPN declares that we don't have a NC, they are probably siting a different source.  Sort of like recruiting services.  They all rank the recruits a little differently.  Fans generally gravitate to the service that ranks their recruits the highest.

[Pig In The City]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't really matter. It is all about what have you done lately.

[Pig in the Pokey]

According to ESPN Kaitlin Jenner has "courage" and is worthy of an award named after Jimmy V... According to ESPN Chris Berman is a good sportscaster... According to ESPN Mantai Te'o's girlfriend's death inspired him to play harder.

Homophobe ALERT!!!!!

[WizardofhOgZ]

We need Wizard of Hogs to send the ESPN writer his famous post explaining all the parameters of the 1964 National Championship and the reasoning as to why Arkansas has the most legitimate claim for the title that year! 

My gosh, when you get a national poll to change their system the very next year (post Bowls), what more proof do you need?

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=614800.msg10376046#msg10376046

Here's another good thread about this:  http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=526777.0

That should give you all the ammunition you need.

[arlhog]

Gotta quit worrying about was espn says and go take care of our business.   We can't control what they say.  We can control what we do in the future.  We know what we have done and no one can take that away.

[AirWarren]

Not demeaning anything.  I'd like some more recent accomplishments, though.  It's unfortunate that 1964 is still about the only thing we have to point to as being a meaningful accomplishment.  Other than beating OU in 1977 it seems.  That's not demeaning the accomplishment.  It's recognizing the following 5+ decades of overall mediocrity.

And if I recall, there were several organizations at the time who declared the champion.  I think we were only recognized as champs by one of those.  So, I assume when ESPN declares that we don't have a NC, they are probably siting a different source.  Sort of like recruiting services.  They all rank the recruits a little differently.  Fans generally gravitate to the service that ranks their recruits the highest.

I don't see it as demeaning. It's just the pitchfork crowd that comes a running if you have an opinion not of the popular one.

That is correct in how we acquired the "national championship".

[WizardofhOgZ]

I don't see it as demeaning. It's just the pitchfork crowd that comes a running if you have an opinion not of the popular one.

That is correct in how we acquired the "national championship".

No, it is not correct; it's far too simplistic and factually incorrect in other ways (for example, in stating that Arkansas was named the mythical champion "by one of those"; in fact, we were designated Champion by more than any other team - we had seven such Championships in 1964.

[whosiskid]

One thing about 1964: while technically Alabama was national champs with some services, ALL of them changed because of the perceived unfairness to Arkansas. To me, that is like the couple of rating services who named the NC before the bowl games saying to Arkansas, "We are sorry. We got it wrong. We are changing it so that it won't happen again."

My first vivid memory of football was Arkansas beating Nebraska and then that night pulling hard for Texas to hold on the goal line against Joe Namath and Alabama (in retrospect, the least "Alabama" style player you can imagine). Absolutely no one that night had any doubts about what team nationally deserved the NC.

[holeinthewall]

we were  given a version of the NC just like Alabama was given a version in 1964

we were undefeated they were not.

We beat the team that beat them.

we beat two teams ranked higher than any team Alabama beat.

sounds like a NC team to me.

my guess is the espn person doesn't know any of that but that doesn't stop him/her from saying
we haven't won a NC, don't let the facts get in the way....

AP & UPI were the two major polls at the time. The final poll was taken after the last regular season game and Bama was #1.  And was awarded the NC for 64. The changed the rules the next year making the final poll after the bowl game.   

[98hogs]

ESPN is too busy with the political correct culture to know football history.

[AirWarren]

No, it is not correct; it's far too simplistic and factually incorrect in other ways (for example, in stating that Arkansas was named the mythical champion "by one of those"; in fact, we were designated Champion by more than any other team - we had seven such Championships in 1964.

Ok.

[RedSkiesAtNightHog]

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=614800.msg10376046#msg10376046

Here's another good thread about this:  http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=526777.0

That should give you all the ammunition you need.

Thanks Wizard!  Great stuff!

[cosmodrum]

Alabama is the 1964 champ, based on the standard of the day. This isn't one they are "claiming." It was awarded to them. We "claim" it.

Sorry.

[WizardofhOgZ]

Alabama is the 1964 champ, based on the standard of the day. This isn't one they are "claiming." It was awarded to them. We "claim" it.

Sorry.

You, obviously, have not read my prior posts.  You may come back with some flip "too long didn't read" type comment, but until you DO read them, you are uninformed and your comment on this subject carries no weight.

One "teaser" . . . to say that Bama is the champ "based on the standard of the day" is NOT correct.  It would be correct to say they are the AP and UPI champs because of the "policy" those two polls had of not conducting a poll after the Bowls.  But the "standards of the day" mean much more than that.  Read the threads I have posted links to, and then come back and make an informed comment.  I'm sure you will learn - a lot - IF you go into the read with an open mind, seeking truth and not just trying to justify your (unfortunately, incorrect) position. 

[cosmodrum]

You, obviously, have not read my prior posts.  You may come back with some flip "too long didn't read" type comment, but until you DO read them, you are uninformed and your comment on this subject carries no weight.

One "teaser" . . . to say that Bama is the champ "based on the standard of the day" is NOT correct.  It would be correct to say they are the AP and UPI champs because of the "policy" those two polls had of not conducting a poll after the Bowls.  But the "standards of the day" mean much more than that.  Read the threads I have posted links to, and then come back and make an informed comment.  I'm sure you will learn - a lot - IF you go into the read with an open mind, seeking truth and not just trying to justify your (unfortunately, incorrect) position. 

In which polls were we ranked #1 prior to the bowl games?

[King Kong]

Alabama is the 1964 champ, based on the standard of the day. This isn't one they are "claiming." It was awarded to them. We "claim" it.

Sorry.

Football Writers Association of America named us National Champions. Which by the standard of the day was a National Championship

[cosmodrum]

Football Writers Association of America named us National Champions. Which by the standard of the day was a National Championship

before or after the bowls