RB Recruiting

[Hogsolo]

I'm hoping after this season's history of injury and the wear and tear of SEC football, Bret learns he needs to be much more aggressive in recruiting RB's in numbers.   Every year I've been shocked by how few RB's we've signed.    We have a room full of receivers and Qb's, but not the work horse RB's.   

Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong.  I'm sure all of the wisdom following will be sage.   

[PorkRinds]

We have like 7-8 on the roster at least. You're never going to have an stable of AC's.

[hogsanity]

I'm hoping after this season's history of injury and the wear and tear of SEC football, Bret learns he needs to be much more aggressive in recruiting RB's in numbers.   Every year I've been shocked by how few RB's we've signed.    We have a room full of receivers and Qb's, but not the work horse RB's.   

Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong.  I'm sure all of the wisdom following will be sage.   

When the class was signed in Feb, that gave the Hogs 5 true Rb's, Jwil, RWIII, Walker, Day & AC. How many should they have signed, especially considering the needs they had at LB, Db, and to constantly keep the ol and dl stocked?

[ricepig]

Entering into the season, we had what they thought were 3 starters in JWill, AC, and KW, with RW3 coming along. I don't know too many that thought that wasn't enough. Take out Fournette and Henry from LSU and Bama, and they wouldn't look as good. As far as WR's, we started a walk on yesterday, due to injuries and a suspension.

[soooieman]

I actually thought the op was being sarcastic. But I think he might be serious. How many more than 6 scholarship rbs can u have until the transfers start?

[devildoghawg]

I'm hoping after this season's history of injury and the wear and tear of SEC football, Bret learns he needs to be much more aggressive in recruiting RB's in numbers.   Every year I've been shocked by how few RB's we've signed.    We have a room full of receivers and Qb's, but not the work horse RB's.   

Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong.  I'm sure all of the wisdom following will be sage.

I'm sure the guy making 4 million a year pales in comparison to your vast knowledge in depth and recruiting.

[hobhog]

We have been killed by injuries at RB. Hard to predict.

That being said, need a good class this year....

[hogsanity]

I actually thought the op was being sarcastic. But I think he might be serious. How many more than 6 scholarship rbs can u have until the transfers start?

No, he was as serious as he could be. There are some who think you should have 10 of every position, just in case.

[Aporkalypse Now]

Barring injury this year we would have had three sec caliber backs, including one feature back caliber player, plus a pretty salty freshman who would have redshirted.

I'm not sure RB depth is an issue with this coaching staff.

[hawginbigd1]

Injuries aside we would be fine if Marshall and Holmes have not transferred, or been kicked off team.

[IronHog]

We have like 7-8 on the roster at least. You're never going to have an stable of AC's.

You could have a stable of Kenneth Dixons though...

[DoctorSusscrofa]

5 (player) X 22 (positions filled with recruited scholarship players) = 110 scholarship players. Plus 1 punter and 1 kicker = 112.  Yeah we could easily do that couldn't we.

(Even if we only got 4 each of 15 positions, that would still put us at 97 schollies. Like it or not, we can't get 7 RBs unless we give up a scholarship at another position. And that doesn't even begin to address our ability to recruit 4 and 5 star talent.

[Aporkalypse Now]

Barring unusual circumstances, shouldn't 3 deep be plenty at RB? In fact if I were a coach my ideal roster would be

QB - 3
RB - 3
FB - 2
TE - 4
WR - 8
OL - 12
DL - 12
LB -  8
DB - 8
S - 6
K - 1
P - 1

That's 68 guys, then 20 of the next best players you can find regardless of position.



I've won like 100 consecutive national championships on the XBox that way

[Dominicanhog]

Entering into the season, we had what they thought were 3 starters in JWill, AC, and KW, with RW3 coming along. I don't know too many that thought that wasn't enough. Take out Fournette and Henry from LSU and Bama, and they wouldn't look as good. As far as WR's, we started a walk on yesterday, due to injuries and a suspension.

just shows recruiting is not a science, he could easily make an all sec team..

[onebadrubi]

Barring unusual circumstances, shouldn't 3 deep be plenty at RB? In fact if I were a coach my ideal roster would be

QB - 3
RB - 3
FB - 2
TE - 4
WR - 8
OL - 12
DL - 12
LB -  8
DB - 8
S - 6
K - 1
P - 1

That's 68 guys, then 20 of the next best players you can find regardless of position.



I've won like 100 consecutive national championships on the XBox that way

What is S-6?  If that is 6 safeties plus 8 CB's then you are taking up a lot of room right there.  And a Safety is a DB.  No way you need 14 players for those 4 positions. 

[redeye]

What is S-6?  If that is 6 safeties plus 8 CB's then you are taking up a lot of room right there.  And a Safety is a DB.  No way you need 14 players for those 4 positions.

Yea, I agree.  I also want more then 3 at RB and QB, because those guys get injured so easy.  Especially at RB, since we're a RB by committee team and will use several.

Plus, you'd probably never have a single moment when all 3 were ready to play at the same time, due to injuries, inexperience and other things.  I'd probably like 5 at each position.

[regi]

You look at a school with the recent history of Cobbs, D Howard, Hillis, Felix, DMAC, Knile Davis, R Wingo, and J Will. It is almost impossible to believe, that with that history of signing 4 and 5 star RBs, and the system we have, they have not been able to land a 4 or 5 star back since AC. It is mind boggling. Doubt very seriously we land Whaley or White. We may already have our highest rated RB commit in TJ Hammonds, if he does not play CB or WR. TJ is a 4 star with Scout and ESPN, and I think like KJ Hill, he will be a 4 Star with Rivals and 24/7 as well, but man this is hard to figure.

[Smokehouse]

No, he was as serious as he could be. There are some who think you should have 10 of every position, just in case.

I've seen people arguing we should offer 2-3 more QBs this class, and they always say "Ohio State proves you can't have too many QBs!" As if that's at all a typical situation (or as if OSU's three QBs fighting for playing time somehow translates into us having like 9 QBs on campus).

There's not a football team around that's going to look good losing the equivalent of J-Will and RWIII with KW missing time, AC banged up, and the guy you brought in for added depth (Day) coming off a major injury. That's like an NFL team losing two of the three on its roster and then having additional guys on the practice squad go down.

[Smokehouse]

You look at a school with the recent history of Cobbs, D Howard, Hillis, Felix, DMAC, Knile Davis, R Wingo, and J Will. It is almost impossible to believe, that with that history of signing 4 and 5 star RBs, and the system we have, they have not been able to land a 4 or 5 star back since AC. It is mind boggling. Doubt very seriously we land Whaley or White. We may already have our highest rated RB commit in TJ Hammonds, if he does not play CB or WR. TJ is a 4 star with Scout and ESPN, and I think like KJ Hill, he will be a 4 Star with Rivals and 24/7 as well, but man this is hard to figure.

When we had those guys, we weren't exactly bringing in 4 and 5 star RBs in the classes after they got to campus. It's just recruiting at Arkansas; it is what it is. We'll land the big fish every once and a while and need to fill in with solid three star guys who exceed their rating in between.

[redeye]

You look at a school with the recent history of Cobbs, D Howard, Hillis, Felix, DMAC, Knile Davis, R Wingo, and J Will. It is almost impossible to believe, that with that history of signing 4 and 5 star RBs, and the system we have, they have not been able to land a 4 or 5 star back since AC. It is mind boggling. Doubt very seriously we land Whaley or White. We may already have our highest rated RB commit in TJ Hammonds, if he does not play CB or WR. TJ is a 4 star with Scout and ESPN, and I think like KJ Hill, he will be a 4 Star with Rivals and 24/7 as well, but man this is hard to figure.

I also find it intriguing, but I don't think it's all because we couldn't do it.  We passed on Chris Warren, Madre London, Damarea Crockett and I'm sure I'm forgetting about some others.  I don't always understand why we pass on some guys, but it seems to me that Bielema's very picky about who he signs at RB and star ratings have little to do with his decision.

[NLRHog92]

I also find it intriguing, but I don't think it's all because we couldn't do it.  We passed on Chris Warren, Madre London, Damarea Crockett and I'm sure I'm forgetting about some others.  I don't always understand why we pass on some guys, but it seems to me that Bielema's very picky about who he signs at RB and star ratings have little to do with his decision.

Really wish we had London about now.

[Wildhog]

Really wish we had London about now.

I'll never understand why we passed on London.

[COCHISE]

I also find it intriguing, but I don't think it's all because we couldn't do it.  We passed on Chris Warren, Madre London, Damarea Crockett and I'm sure I'm forgetting about some others.  I don't always understand why we pass on some guys, but it seems to me that Bielema's very picky about who he signs at RB and star ratings have little to do with his decision.

This has been my concern as well. It's not that we don't have the numbers at RB, but it seems like we've put little effort into going after the top guys ever since we signed AC. We're seeing a renewed emphasis on the position this year but I fear it's a little too late as now we face the possibility of losing JWill, AC, and RWIII. We've met out depth needs by getting guys like Evans and Day but I personally would like to see us put the type of effort we put into getting Collins, and this year White, Pennamon, Whaley, etc., every season.

[The Recruiting Guy]

I'll never understand why we passed on London.

They were concerned about his speed.

[onebadrubi]

They were concerned about his speed.

Were they legit concerns or just thought they were on better and in the end it didnt pan out great?  I thought London had "good" speed?

[hawginbigd1]

They were concerned about his speed.

He isn't the best on speed, but the limited amount I have watched sparty, he seems to be their best back and the real deal.

[Wildhog]

They were concerned about his speed.

Yep, I'll never get it. Kid's a stud. 

Just dumb.

[ricepig]

Yep, I'll never get it. Kid's a stud. 

Just dumb.

Yeah, hindsight is one's best friend.

[Wildhog]

Yeah, hindsight is one's best friend.

Not hindsight at all.  I didn't get it back then, either.

Look at this offer list:
Michigan St
Boston College
Cincy
Florida St
Houston
Illinois
Kansas
Memphis
Mississippi State
Nebraska
North Carolina
Pitt
Purdue
Rutgers
South Carolina
South Florida
Virginia
Wisconsin




And he absolutely would have been a hog if we had offered. 

Will. Never. Understand.

[ricepig]

Not hindsight at all.  I didn't get it back then, either.

Look at this offer list:
Michigan St
Boston College
Cincy
Florida St
Houston
Illinois
Kansas
Memphis
Mississippi State
Nebraska
North Carolina
Pitt
Purdue
Rutgers
South Carolina
South Florida
Virginia
Wisconsin




And he absolutely would have been a hog if we had offered. 

Will. Never. Understand.

Bielema said in his PC he prefers to take one RB/year, I guess RWIII took that spot. I agree we could have used another, but I'll let him explain his reasons.

[Wildhog]

Bielema said in his PC he prefers to take one RB/year, I guess RWIII took that spot. I agree we could have used another, but I'll let him explain his reasons.

Actually, it was Juan Day that got that spot........

[hawginbigd1]

Actually, it was Juan Day that got that spot........

Wow time flies i thought that was last year!

[onebadrubi]

Actually, it was Juan Day that got that spot........

Refresh my memory.  I see London getting an offer?  Now I'm confused. 

[Wildhog]

Refresh my memory.  I see London getting an offer?  Now I'm confused. 

He did not have an Arkansas offer, and really wanted one.

[hawginbigd1]

He did not have an Arkansas offer, and really wanted one.

I remember it, now i may not remember when it was, but I do remember it seemed the news and rumor mill was he was ours if we wanted him, but we never offered.

[redleg]

According to Rivals.com, there are currently three recruits that are High on Arkansas and list the Hogs as finalsts and/or likely destinations:
4* RB Devwah Whaley 6'0" 205 lbs. 4.4 Beaumont, TX.
3* LB Jordan Carmouche 6'1" 220 lbs. 4.5 Manvel, TX.
3* WR Isaiah Graham 6'1" 175 lbs. 4.4 Bastrop, LA.

These are Rivals rankings. Scout.com ranks them the same.
247Sports.com and ESPN rank Whaley and Graham as 4* and Carmouche as 3*.

:razorback:

[onebadrubi]

He did not have an Arkansas offer, and really wanted one.

Thats what I thought but I saw on that link somewhere that he had an Arkansas offer.

It's a whiff definitely. 

[hawginbigd1]

According to Rivals.com, there are currently three recruits that are High on Arkansas and list the Hogs as finalsts and/or likely destinations:
4* RB Devwah Whaley 6'0" 205 lbs. 4.4 Beaumont, TX.
3* LB Jordan Carmouche 6'1" 220 lbs. 4.5 Manvel, TX.
3* WR Isaiah Graham 6'1" 175 lbs. 4.4 Bastrop, LA.

These are Rivals rankings. Scout.com ranks them the same.
247Sports.com and ESPN rank Whaley and Graham as 4* and Carmouche as 3*.

:razorback:

Add Pennamon, Wallace, Bolles, and one of Allen or Little or whoever the big time OL guy is, and then the big time defensive guy Daniels or James RD keeps mentioning and let's call the dogs and piss on the fire! Of course if we could swing Cleveland somebody has got to go either on the roster or the recruits!!!!!

[31to6]

Bielema said in his PC he prefers to take one RB/year, I guess RWIII took that spot. I agree we could have used another, but I'll let him explain his reasons.

At the time we signed RWIII we had 4 scholarship RBs, 5 if you count Kody Walker since he can play TB or FB:

We also had Korliss Marshall on the roster during the Spring, Summer and first part of Fall which means they would have been reaching to get a 2nd quality RB last year.

The RB attrition we have seen is ridiculous and nothing one can plan for.

[Pig in the Pokey]

I'll never understand why we passed on London.

or Warren...

[redeye]

Were they legit concerns or just thought they were on better and in the end it didnt pan out great?  I thought London had "good" speed?

Must have been legit, since we didn't sign him.  IIRC, he was from Arkansas and moved to Florida in high school.  I wanna say he went to Bryant HS.

I'm surprised that speed was a concern, because none of our RB's have blazing speed.  However, Kevin Shorter was a top target that year and I think he was really fast, so I guess they're looking to add the speed back many of us have been wanting.

[The Recruiting Guy]

Yep, I'll never get it. Kid's a stud. 

Just dumb.

Arkansas saw Madre at camp and he ran a 40.

[whosiskid]

I hate the obsession with speed these days on running backs. Kenneth Dixon is not fast. I lived in Chicago during nearly all of Walter Payton's career and I can promise you that I'm faster than Walter Payton. (Quicker? No. Stronger? No. But faster.) Past 30 yards Barry Sanders peaked and was often pulled down from behind by defensive backs and even linebackers (for ten yards, he was supernaturally quick.).

A lot of the 1,000 yard rushers from the sixties were not that fast. The mainstay for the Minnesota Vikings' running game during the years where Fran Tarkenton was QB was Chuck Foreman and he was slow as Christmas. Of course, there were some absurdly fast backs. Jim Brown was both the fastest and the strongest running back of his age. O.J. Simpson was part of a record setting 400 meters relay. Gale Sayers was not only incredibly fast, but he could hit his top speed in about two steps. But Payton was not a fast guy. He might rush for 1600 yards in a season but not have a run over 25 yards. But he might have 8 or 9 runs of 12 or 13 yards. He would just batter the other team. Jim Taylor was a stud running back for the Green Bay Packers, but he was absolutely not a fast guy.

Running is a lot of things, including recognizing the hole, waiting on your blockers, being patient for the play to develop. With Payton, it was the strength to move a pile another two or three yards, the ability to leap over a crowd for a TD from the 3 yard line, having great hands not just in receiving a pass but in not fumbling.

My point is, there are a huge number of factors going into a running back, and these days if you miss one of those factors, you miss the cut. I think it is - or at least ought to be - a fad. It is great if someone runs a 4.45 forty, but he may not be a better runner than someone running a 4.65. I mentioned Jim Taylor. I doubt that he ran a 4.7.

I'm expressing an opinion here I hope that isn't perceived as criticism of the current staff. For myself, I regretted that they did not pursue London. I didn't feel like criticizing Petrino for missing on Kenneth Dixon because just about no one knew Dixon was going to be that good. Despite some injury problems, he is going to end his college career with around 4,000 yards rushing and 60 rushing TDs. I think we might be making a similar mistake with Crockett. Of course, the 25 player limit hurts. In the Houston Nutt days we would have offered Crockett and have hoped to sign him just as we would White, Whalley, Pennamon, and Porter. The more the merrier. Under Nutt we had Dmac, Felix, Hillis, and Michael Smith all at the same time and that will never happen under Bielema because he is stuck with only 25 slots. And maybe that is the reason why people seem less inclined to offer a really great high school running back who isn't quite as fast as they'd like. The 25 player limit makes coaches miss out on some really great players they might have got when they could sign 33 players.

The 25 player limit also makes you play it safe with other positions. Keep in mind that we almost didn't offer Dre Greenlaw last year. We know now that would have been a mistake.

Now, here is where I'm going to do something I almost never do. I'm going to second guess the coaches. It is well known that we have a small number of seniors this year and therefore it will be harder reaching the 85 player limit. So we might only try to sign 18 to 22 player this year. But another way to look at this is that it gives us an opportunity to address a position of weakness for a team that relies heavily on the running game, and that is running back. I personally find it baffling that we might only try to sign two running backs. Even if those two backs were White and Whalley, I would be hesitant to do that. We currently have ZERO running backs on the roster who we can definitely count on to contribute to the team next year.

Alex Collins will likely turn pro next year.

Jonathan Williams will likely turn pro.

Rawleigh Williams III might not be able to play football again.

Kody Walker has a checkered history staying healthy.

Juan Day has had a couple of major knee injuries. Not many are able to overcome that.

And that's that. We have no other running backs, apart from some fullbacks.

We do have TJ Hammond, who I think would be fine running back but who may be better suited to WR. Duwop Mitchell might be moved back to running back, where he played briefly, but historically few players have been able to move to WR and then back to RB

So we are facing a scenario where if some players get injured as they have in the past, we could have only one running back from that batch, and he might be better at WR.

With flexibility at the RB position, I don't see why we haven't gone hard after Crockett in addition to 2 to 3 other backs. We don't just need to get a couple of running backs as we would some years, but we need to repair a position that is severely damaged. We could be both inexperienced and incredibly thin at running back next year, and that seems to me to be a recipe for disaster. If Alex Collins pulls a hamstring and Kody Walker gets hurt again, where will we be? Praying that Juan Day is healthy enough?

I just think this recruiting year provides us with a unique opportunity to allow us to sign at least three running backs, and I think that will be especially important if we don't get someone who will obviously be able to play right away.

[Vantage 8 dude]

I'm hoping after this season's history of injury and the wear and tear of SEC football, Bret learns he needs to be much more aggressive in recruiting RB's in numbers.   Every year I've been shocked by how few RB's we've signed.    We have a room full of receivers and Qb's, but not the work horse RB's.   

Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong.  I'm sure all of the wisdom following will be sage.

Not saying you're wrong. However, I'm also confident that CBB and staff are well aware of our needs in this area. Duh, they have to live with it every week, even every day with game preparation/planning, so they obviously can't be oblivious to our needs for the position.

[DeltaBoy]

Coach said they were looking at 2 for this class cause AC might go pro next year.

[hawgfan4life]

I'm hoping after this season's history of injury and the wear and tear of SEC football, Bret learns he needs to be much more aggressive in recruiting RB's in numbers.   Every year I've been shocked by how few RB's we've signed.    We have a room full of receivers and Qb's, but not the work horse RB's.   

Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong.  I'm sure all of the wisdom following will be sage.   

Too bad BB doesn't have your football knowledge!

[IronHog]

Too bad BB doesn't have your football knowledge!

He does have a point

[Paul]

Whenever a member of this board is given $4 mil/ yr to run a football program I'll trust them as much as I trust BB

[Oklahawg]

Whenever a member of this board is given $4 mil/ yr to run a football program I'll trust them as much as I trust BB

We are paid far less and are left to try and watch and read intently, hoping to put 2+2 together and get something between 3 and 5.

[Steef]

We are paid far less and are left to try and watch and read intently, hoping to put 2+2 together and get something between 3 and 5.

Well, you've been a mod FAR longer than me, and Lanny told me he was paying me the exact same as you.

Ha!