Conference Championship

[311Hog]

It doesn't make sense when you look at the conference slate alone.  It's the extra loss that causes it to make sense in the committee's opinion.

Maybe the non-conference games should be like NFL preseason games and not count in the end.

No I get the 2 is greater than 1 point, but even that non con loss it was 1. early in the season 2. to a team in Pitt that handed Clemson (another play off team) it's only loss of the season 3. it was by 3 points.

I just can't see how all other things considered you take basically the Champion from the West, the Champion from the South, the Champion from the East, and the Runner up from the Mid-West ? huh wat?

[rhames]

What?  The anger is from a deserving Penn St not getting in over a deserving Ohio St.

Florida doesn't deserve to be in the playoffs even if they won the conference.  Bama would still deserve to be in with 1 loss.

I don't see what your point is.

Did you not read what you typed?

[DiamondHogFan]

Penn St just needs to go beat USC in the Rose bowl and have a conference title to go with a rose bowl victory.

Ohio St isn't going with win the title, and Penn St wouldn't either.

[mweston]

What kinda irks me a bit is that the committee is supposed to be watching all the games and taking that into account.  Clemson and Ohio St. skated by and won several close games against teams they should have blown out.  Not saying Penn St. didn't.  Ohio St. was a couple of controversial calls in an overtime win away from having two losses like Penn St.  Had Michigan won that game, we may not even have this debate.

[rhames]

but your example isn't the same.

Imagine Bama goes 11-1 and lets say loses to Auburn by 3.  Auburn goes 10-2 loses 2 non conference games in Sept. but is on a winning streak and goes to Atlanta to play in the SEC championship game.  Auburn wins the championship game but is denied in the playoff but Bama gets in.

So Auburn is SEC champs and have beaten Bama head to head but is left out of the play off because of Bama's reputation and the talking heads.

edit: Auburns 2 losses are 1 non con by 3 to a good team that beat one of the other playoff teams, and one early season blow out to LSU who lost to Bama and another conference loss so they couldn't represent the west in the SEC champ game.

Bama should get in over Auburn.

[grayhawg]

That had more loses than the team that's in it.

And beat the team that is in it!

[DiamondHogFan]

Did you not read what you typed?

I did.  You started with an OU reference.  I told you why people aren't mad about OU not getting in.  Then you switched it to the SEC.  There is no other deserving team from the SEC that would get in.  The frustration for most is that there are 2 teams from the Big Ten that deserve to be in the playoffs, but the one that got left out just happens to be the conference champ. 

Completely different situation from a 12-1 Bama still getting in when the next best option in the conference would be a 10-3 Florida.

[Hogarusa]

Past performance by a totally different team is not an indicator of future success or lack there of.  It isn't JUST the H2h, PSU is also the conference champion earned on the field.  I mean I almost could understand it if some fluke allowed PSU to become the b10 champion and they ended up ranked like Auburn in the teens but they were freaking number 5 lol so one spot out of the 4 and a team they beat is in.  That just makes no logical sense.

I see this is going nowhere but circles so i will just agree to disagree. I get the point you are making. I think the committee made the correct choice. Ohio St was always in to me. I can make a better argument for Penn St over Washington, but matters not. All 5 teams have a solid argument, 1 had to be left out.

[311Hog]

I see this is going nowhere but circles so i will just agree to disagree. I get the point you are making. I think the committee made the correct choice. Ohio St was always in to me. I can make a better argument for Penn St over Washington, but matters not. All 5 teams have a solid argument, 1 had to be left out.

No I agree with you as well, I think my over all issue is with the preferential treatment I see OSU and Meyer getting.  They were in the 4 before a down of football was even played this year is how I feel, and nothing not even losing to their conference champion would keep them out.

[DiamondHogFan]

No I agree with you as well, I think my over all issue is with the preferential treatment I see OSU and Meyer getting.  They were in the 4 before a down of football was even played this year is how I feel, and nothing not even losing to their conference champion would keep them out.

A second loss would have.

[hoghiker]

Not a huge Ped State fan but they beat OSU in a head to head match up  and won the conference Championship. Win your conference championship or don't get in. Bama the same. Championship games should be counted as play in games. two teams from one conference. Nope.

[rhames]

I did.  You started with an OU reference.  I told you why people aren't mad about OU not getting in.  Then you switched it to the SEC.  There is no other deserving team from the SEC that would get in.  The frustration for most is that there are 2 teams from the Big Ten that deserve to be in the playoffs, but the one that got left out just happens to be the conference champ. 

Completely different situation from a 12-1 Bama still getting in when the next best option in the conference would be a 10-3 Florida.

Again would people be mad if Bama lost and was still in it?


People have laid out over and over why Ohio state is more deserving than Penn state. The committee basically came out and said this was going to happen last week.



The committe is not saying conference championships don't matter. They are saying it isn't the only thing. If all things were equal, a la Penn state having just one loss, they would be in.

[DiamondHogFan]

Not a huge Ped State fan but they beat OSU in a head to head match up  and won the conference Championship. Win your conference championship or don't get in. Bama the same. Championship games should be counted as play in games. two teams from one conference. Nope.

That would ruin college football.  The best part about it is that every week matters, even the 1st week.

[rhames]

That would ruin college football.  The best part about it is that every week matters, even the 1st week.

I agree with that

[DiamondHogFan]

I agree with that

See...we don't have to disagree about everything! 

[311Hog]

A second loss would have.

I am not sure that is true my friend.  I would like to think so but I just don't believe it.  I mean watching the talking heads and powers that be do mental gymnastics to compare a PSU to Washington to distract you from the fact that OSU is in without winning their conference and having lost to the team that did on the field.  I honestly don't give two darn's about "resume this resume" that, OSU lost to PSU on the field and in the standings of their own conference.  Now people with their bias and their "eye test" will tell you that OSU is better in their estimation I will go with actual results.

I mean if OU beats OSU by 3 then everyone will parade around how Meyer is so bold in the tough non con scheduling and then they would have pushed Washington out of the play off and taken 2 b10 teams. Either way Meyer was getting into the play off come hell or high water.

[DiamondHogFan]

I am not sure that is true my friend.  I would like to think so but I just don't believe it.  I mean watching the talking heads and powers that be do mental gymnastics to compare a PSU to Washington to distract you from the fact that OSU is in without winning their conference and having lost to the team that did on the field.  I honestly don't give two darn's about "resume this resume" that, OSU lost to PSU on the field and in the standings of their own conference.  Now people with their bias and their "eye test" will tell you that OSU is better in their estimation I will go with actual results.

I mean if OU beats OSU by 3 then everyone will parade around how Meyer is so bold in the tough non con scheduling and then they would have pushed Washington out of the play off and taken 2 b10 teams. Either way Meyer was getting into the play off come hell or high water.

I actually wish this would have happened.  It would give us a better feel for if the conference championships actually matter.  A 2 loss OSU that didn't win their conference championship over a 1 loss PAC-12 champ Washington.

Oh boy, that would be something to see.

[rhames]

I am not sure that is true my friend.  I would like to think so but I just don't believe it.  I mean watching the talking heads and powers that be do mental gymnastics to compare a PSU to Washington to distract you from the fact that OSU is in without winning their conference and having lost to the team that did on the field.  I honestly don't give two darn's about "resume this resume" that, OSU lost to PSU on the field and in the standings of their own conference.  Now people with their bias and their "eye test" will tell you that OSU is better in their estimation I will go with actual results.

I mean if OU beats OSU by 3 then everyone will parade around how Meyer is so bold in the tough non con scheduling and then they would have pushed Washington out of the play off and taken 2 b10 teams. Either way Meyer was getting into the play off come hell or high water.

If this were all true then why didn't Ohio state get in last year?

[311Hog]

I actually wish this would have happened.  It would give us a better feel for if the conference championships actually matter.  A 2 loss OSU that didn't win their conference championship over a 1 loss PAC-12 champ Washington.

Oh boy, that would be something to see.

yeah I mean I totally get why people do this to.  Because now the whole regular season is out the window it is a "win or go home" scenario and in that type of format Meyer has proven to be very effective hell that might be the only chance for someone to beat Saban and why people "need" Meyer to be in the mix because who thinks Dabo or Peterson can get that job done?

[311Hog]

If this were all true then why didn't Ohio state get in last year?

funny you bring that up because didn't this exact scenario play out last year? MSU beat OSU head to head and won the B10 and they go in.  Only difference is MSU is a "bigger" name at the moment then PSU (scandal), and they had 1 fewer losses.

[rhames]

funny you bring that up because didn't this exact scenario play out last year? MSU beat OSU head to head and won the B10 and they go in.  Only difference is MSU is a "bigger" name at the moment then PSU (scandal), and they had 1 fewer losses.

No because Michigan State only had one loss.  Penn State has 2


So it isn't the same thing

[hoghiker]

That would ruin college football.  The best part about it is that every week matters, even the 1st week.

I'm open to the argument but I'm not sure how having to win your conference championship would ruin college football. Maybe it would but I don't see it.

[Sportster365]

Gees people the BIG conference champ had two losses. One of them being a 49-10 schlacking by Michigan which I'm sure the committee noted in considering the final 4. A Michigan team with 2 losses themselves, one of which to the current #2 team in the nation, a 1 loss OSU.

The CFP got it right this time. The best records from the countries best conferences are being represented.

[Sportster365]

Had Florida won the SEC championship should they have been selected over Alabama into the CFP?

The problem sometimes with conf. championships in which teams don't play every team in their conference, creates an issue where the results can be a misconception of reality.

Georgia, South Carolina, were both down this year. Tennessee was middle of the pack good. Missouri down as well. Kentucky and Vandy were still Kentucky and Vandy. This was not a hard road to travel for Florida. Had Alabama slipped to them then by no way should they have been selected into the CFP.

[DiamondHogFan]

I'm open to the argument but I'm not sure how having to win your conference championship would ruin college football. Maybe it would but I don't see it.

Say a team goes 2-2 in non conference games, goes 5-3 in conference games, but is able to win the conference championship.  No way should an 8-5 team play for a national championship.

Non-conference games become irrelevant in P5 conferences.  May as well just consider them preseason games like the NFL.

[311Hog]

Say a team goes 2-2 in non conference games, goes 5-3 in conference games, but is able to win the conference championship.  No way should an 8-5 team play for a national championship.

Non-conference games become irrelevant in P5 conferences.  May as well just consider them preseason games like the NFL.

but the only way this would happen is if one or more of the other 4 power 5 conference champions had a worse than 8-5 record.  To me if I was making this thing "work" I would have 6 teams, one conference champion from each of the 5 power conferences and then 1 at large from anywhere.

that way all conferences get their shot and hopefully the "regular season" would be structured in such a way that the "best" team is put into the play off from each and if not the committee or whom ever could pick the 6th spot from any conference lol let the hysteria continue.

[Exit Pursued by a Boar]

If all this conversation means one thing, it means that deciding who gets in is difficult. Four is almost worse than 2. If it had been two, Bama and Clemson would be playing again. As it is, we have four, which means one P5 conference team (champion or not) is going to be left out every year, and that one conference is usually going to be angry. This year OU doesn't have a case and knows it doesn't, but in previous years both TCU and Baylor had good reasons to complain. We also know that the Big Ten had reps on that committee. They may well have been arguing for both PSU and tOSU to get in. Sometime soon, one conference is going to get two teams in. When that happens two P5 conferences are going to be very peeved. I see the day we go to 8 coming very soon.  If there is a #9 or #10 team b*tching about not getting in, those teams will be too far down the pike for anyone else to care.  If a two- or three-loss team can win three games in a row against top-rated competition, that team deserves a championship.

EFBAB

[DiamondHogFan]

If all this conversation means one thing, it means that deciding who gets in is difficult. Four is almost worse than 2. If it had been two, Bama and Clemson would be playing again. As it is, we have four, which means one P5 conference team (champion or not) is going to be left out every year, and that one conference is usually going to be angry. This year OU doesn't have a case and knows it doesn't, but in previous years both TCU and Baylor had good reasons to complain. We also know that the Big Ten had reps on that committee. They may well have been arguing for both PSU and tOSU to get in. Sometime soon, one conference is going to get two teams in. When that happens two P5 conferences are going to be very peeved. I see the day we go to 8 coming very soon.  If there is a #9 or #10 team b*tching about not getting in, those teams will be too far down the pike for anyone else to care.  If a two- or three-loss team can win three games in a row against top-rated competition, that team deserves a championship.

EFBAB

I don't know about that.  I think it will be 4 for a while.  Going to 8 eliminates a lot of other good "bowl" matchups.  All of the NY6 bowls would have to be a part of the "playoffs".  Maybe that would be a good thing, but I think the NCAA likes a lot of individual top tier matchups instead of a longer drawn out playoff scenario.

[Sportster365]

I don't know about that.  I think it will be 4 for a while.  Going to 8 eliminates a lot of other good "bowl" matchups.  All of the NY6 bowls would have to be a part of the "playoffs".  Maybe that would be a good thing, but I think the NCAA likes a lot of individual top tier matchups instead of a longer drawn out playoff scenario.

8 would lead to 16 and 16 to 32 and so forth and so on until we have a round of 64. That I should add would be rather interesting. Seeing as how all a team has to do is make the tournament to have a chance.

Similar to college BB, its the reasons teams like Gonzaga and St. May's even have a chance to win it all. We know neither of those two teams would be considered the best team in college basketball but if they play well enough in the tournament to win the whole thing then it would be to some degree deserving and fun for them and their fans as well.

There's something to be said about knowing your team has one more shot to reach the ultimate goal of winning it all. Just think of the buzz and excitement it would create around here if the Hogs were in a field as such with a chance to win it all. We'd be imagining all the possible scenarios possible.

[scorekeeper]

The main problem IMO is the fact that Ohio St got in as the 3 seed. I really don't have a problem with them getting in as I figured the winner of the Big 10 championship game would get screwed but the fact that they got the 3 seed is questionable. In essence it gives Bama a bye in the first round. The only real shot we had at seeing three competitive games would have been Bama vs Michigan & Clemson vs Ohio State. Now we will only see two competitive games.

[DiamondHogFan]

The main problem IMO is the fact that Ohio St got in as the 3 seed. I really don't have a problem with them getting in as I figured the winner of the Big 10 championship game would get screwed but the fact that they got the 3 seed is questionable. In essence it gives Bama a bye in the first round. The only real shot we had at seeing three competitive games would have been Bama vs Michigan & Clemson vs Ohio State. Now we will only see two competitive games.

I don't think Bama really gets challenged by any of them, but coach Petersen and Washington won't lay down for Bama.  I expect that one to be closer than a lot of people probably think it will be.  I actually think Clemson may be the weakest of the 4 teams.

[Hogarusa]

The main problem IMO is the fact that Ohio St got in as the 3 seed. I really don't have a problem with them getting in as I figured the winner of the Big 10 championship game would get screwed but the fact that they got the 3 seed is questionable. In essence it gives Bama a bye in the first round. The only real shot we had at seeing three competitive games would have been Bama vs Michigan & Clemson vs Ohio State. Now we will only see two competitive games.

You think 11-1 Washington is essentially a bye for Bama? Have you seen what Chris Peterson has done to teams he has no business beating with 4+ weeks of prep?

[scorekeeper]

You think 11-1 Washington is essentially a bye for Bama? Have you seen what Chris Peterson has done to teams he has no business beating with 4+ weeks of prep?

Yes, I do. Bama rolls in this game. Michigan or Penn St would have been better competition for Bama. Although I have no problem with Washington making the final four because they proved it on the field but Washington presents no match for Bama. The results will be similar to the beating Michigan St received last season against Bama.

Bama - 47
Washington - 3

[Sportster365]

The main problem IMO is the fact that Ohio St got in as the 3 seed. I really don't have a problem with them getting in as I figured the winner of the Big 10 championship game would get screwed but the fact that they got the 3 seed is questionable. In essence it gives Bama a bye in the first round. The only real shot we had at seeing three competitive games would have been Bama vs Michigan & Clemson vs Ohio State. Now we will only see two competitive games.

Michigan got beat by Iowa and Ohio St. You honestly think they would have been competitive against Bama

[PorkSoda]

I'm sure Ohio St enjoyed their bye while Bama lost their 2nd leading tackler Saturday.

yeah, if it wasn't for TV money, this year would have spelled the beginning of the end of conference championship games.

[PorkSoda]

8 would lead to 16 and 16 to 32 and so forth and so on until we have a round of 64. That I should add would be rather interesting. Seeing as how all a team has to do is make the tournament to have a chance.

Similar to college BB, its the reasons teams like Gonzaga and St. May's even have a chance to win it all. We know neither of those two teams would be considered the best team in college basketball but if they play well enough in the tournament to win the whole thing then it would be to some degree deserving and fun for them and their fans as well.

There's something to be said about knowing your team has one more shot to reach the ultimate goal of winning it all. Just think of the buzz and excitement it would create around here if the Hogs were in a field as such with a chance to win it all. We'd be imagining all the possible scenarios possible.

there would have to be a massive restructuring of conferences for that to happen.  no way the playoff committee or NCAA has that sort of clout.

[jm]

Again would people be mad if Bama lost and was still in it?


People have laid out over and over why Ohio state is more deserving than Penn state. The committee basically came out and said this was going to happen last week.


he committe is not saying conference championships don't matter. They are saying it isn't the only thing. If all things were equal, a la Penn state having just one loss, they would be in.

The committee has used the excuse that teams do not have a league championship to exclude a team in years past. They would certainly exclude an undefeated Baylor or similar team because of not having a league championship..

[uams1989]

The conference champ should always be the one that plays for the NC. 

So, Bama beats the Hogs by 1 point in OT. Bama is the Hog's only loss but Bama plays FL in the SECCG. No other team has a better strength of schedule than Arkansas.

You're okay with Hogs not making it to the final four?

Sure you are...until it happens.

[PorkSoda]

The committe is not saying conference championships don't matter. They are saying it isn't the only thing. If all things were equal, a la Penn state having just one loss, they would be in.

All I keep hearing is that Penn State has 2 losses and Ohio State has 1.  when did we go from counting wins to counting losses.  Both have 11 wins and Penn State has the head to head.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

All I keep hearing is that Penn State has 2 losses and Ohio State has 1.  when did we go from counting wins to counting losses.  Both have 11 wins and Penn State has the head to head.

The final spot was between Penn St & Washington. Both Conf. Champs.
Washington 12-1, PSU 11-2.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/committee-picks-alabama-washington-ohio-state-clemson-43965481

[311Hog]

The final spot was between Penn St & Washington. Both Conf. Champs.
Washington 12-1, PSU 11-2.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/committee-picks-alabama-washington-ohio-state-clemson-43965481

That's what we are saying Washington shoulda been No. 3 and the fight shoulda been between OSU and PSU.  I mean you look at the over all str of schedule and everyone is 30 to 55 except Bama which is No. 1 lol go figure so really it is down to "or should have been down to" OSU and PSU from the same conference.  And that is basically a 2 loss vs 1 loss except that one loss you would "think" counts more because it is a head to head loss and one that cost OSU their chance at being b10 champions.

[GoHogs1091]

I don't think Bama really gets challenged by any of them, but coach Petersen and Washington won't lay down for Bama.  I expect that one to be closer than a lot of people probably think it will be.  I actually think Clemson may be the weakest of the 4 teams.

Mack Brown's comments this season about Clemson.

"...but Dabo (Swinney) and this Clemson team, they've won so many games that they're hard to beat."

"Clemson just kept coming back. It seems like the more trouble they're in, the better they play."

"After you win a title, it's tough to come back and play up to expectations, but it's also tough after you lose it," Brown said. "You keep hearing, 'We were so close, but we're gonna win it all this year.' There's so much pressure on you as a team to get back and win it."

"To that end, Brown says he's impressed with the job that Swinney has done on the heels of last year's 45-40, title-game loss against Alabama."

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/sports/college/clemson/2016/10/06/espn-mack-brown-clemson-tigers-football/91678496/

Also, from the following article.

"Behold Clemson's remarkable 17-2 record since the start of 2011 in results settled by eight points or less; also known as one-possession games. To contrast, the Tigers went 1-5 in such games in 2010 alone, and lost 11 of 15 close calls during Swinney's interim stint and first two full years as head coach."

Compared to others

"Alabama, which edged Clemson 45-40 in last season's national championship game, is 9-6 in one-possession games since the start of 2011."

"This is a confident coaching staff, and a confident team," ESPN analyst and former Texas coach Mack Brown said of Clemson. "When you get your group believing you're going to win every game – and it's because you do – then you're hard to beat."

http://www.postandcourier.com/sports/the-winning-gene-clemson-thrives-while-it-lives-on-the/article_5a7496f4-97f3-11e6-86d5-374b3860fee5.html

[scorekeeper]

Michigan got beat by Iowa and Ohio St. You honestly think they would have been competitive against Bama

Michigan lost by a total of 4 points in those road games. Michigan beat Colorado, Penn State, and Wisconsin. So do I honestly think they would have been competitive against Bama...Yes. 

[grayhawg]

Right now the only thing that can beat Bama is complacency JMO.