Conference Championship

[Qadi999]

With this years finale four would it  be better for Conf to do away with the conf championship game ?

[HoggusMaximus]

What?

[(notOM)Rebel123]

No.

[grayhawg]

The fact that the big 10 conference championship game winner is left out and they also beat the team that's going doesn't bother you guys? They just selected who they wanted and set the precedent of doing as they please not sending the conference winners to playoffs.

[Dr. Starcs]

I'm sure Ohio St enjoyed their bye while Bama lost their 2nd leading tackler Saturday.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

The fact that the big 10 conference championship game winner is left out and they also beat the team that's going doesn't bother you guys? They just selected who they wanted and set the precedent of doing as they please not sending the conference winners to playoffs.

The 4th spot was not between PSU & OSU. It was between PSU & Wash.
Alabama would have been in even if Florida would have beaten them. Just like OSU was in regardless of who won the Big 10 title game. The loss to Pitt is what kept PSU out of the playoff, Not OSU.

[grayhawg]

The 4th spot was not between PSU & OSU. It was between PSU & Wash.
Alabama would have been in even if Florida would have beaten them. Just like OSU was in regardless of who won the Big 10 title game. The loss to Pitt is what kept PSU out of the playoff, Not OSU.

PSU beat OSU, might as well picked the teams in August, ESPN $$$$$ is in total control.

[12247]

I always believed the intent of the Playoff Committee was to try and find the 4 best teams no matter where they were located.  I think they may have been a success.  If the playoff was 16 teams then the teams left out would feel bad.  But the truth is during most years #20 could beat number #1 on a given day and circumstance.  It is also true that during most years, the coaches with the most drive, attention to detail, willingness to coach 24/7 and enthusiasm wonder toward the top.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

The thing that really has people in an uproar is the way the playoff committee went about this whole thing. They give us inconsistent reasons behind why teams are ranked in certain positions and expect us to just accept it. Penn State wasn't gonna get in no matter what they did and the committee knows it, but they tried to B.S with us instead of just saying it

[LZH]

 Who said a playoff system would crown the true National Champion? 

[Hoggie17]

The conference champ should always be the one that plays for the NC. 

[311Hog]

I think they got it right with these 4 but you can't help but see the GIANT confirmation of OSU's clout.  darn Urban even acknowledged it on the post release interviews.  if it would have been any other big 10 team besides OSU or Mich, PSU would have been in the 4 as the conference champ with it's resume.

some teams are "untouchable" 

[(notOM)Rebel123]

PSU beat OSU, might as well picked the teams in August, ESPN $$$$$ is in total control.

...and lost to Pitt and Michigan (by 39). If PSU beats Pitt, they are in.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

The conference champ should always be the one that plays for the NC. 

So, if Wisconsin  would have won, you'd be saying the same thing?

[DiamondHogFan]

I think they got it right with these 4 but you can't help but see the GIANT confirmation of OSU's clout.  darn Urban even acknowledged it on the post release interviews.  if it would have been any other big 10 team besides OSU or Mich, PSU would have been in the 4 as the conference champ with it's resume.

some teams are "untouchable"

I understand your point and I don't like OSU either, but OSU only lost 1 game and also went on the road and beat the Big 12 "champion" in the non-conference.  They deserve it.  Penn St probably deserves it too, but someone has to finish 5th.

[311Hog]

I understand your point and I don't like OSU either, but OSU only lost 1 game and also went on the road and beat the Big 12 "champion" in the non-conference.  They deserve it.  Penn St probably deserves it too, but someone has to finish 5th.

yeah I know but lets say Indiana only lost 1 game to PSU in the same exact fashion.  I can promise you that PSU would have been in the 4 over Indiana.  The precedent is already there for teams to "over come early season losses".  I just find it fascinating what the powers that be will do for that "marque" match up.  OSU was cruising into the play offs no matter what for weeks now hell they were slotted into the 4 at the start of the season for the most part.

[Exit Pursued by a Boar]

With this years finale four would it  be better for Conf to do away with the conf championship game ?

Three of the four participants are conference champions.  I don't like the fourth (tOSU), but it only has one loss, whereas the team that beat it and is the conference champ lost two. Also tOSU thumped the conference champ of the Big 12 on the road.

PSU has a case, but with two losses, not much of one. Now, if Bama had lost to Florida, would anyone have argued for them to be left out? If Clemson had lost to VT, would anyone have argued for VT to be in the playoff? 

Even if all four teams in the playoff had been conf champs, there would still have been one P5 conference champ left out. THAT's the big problem with the playoff.  There will always be at least on P5 conference champ on the outside looking in.

EFBAB

[311Hog]

what I want to know is how does the b10 not have OSU in the championship game ? I guess because PSU losses were non con so they got in?  it is a pretty amazing set of circumstances to be sure.

[DiamondHogFan]

yeah I know but lets say Indiana only lost 1 game to PSU in the same exact fashion.  I can promise you that PSU would have been in the 4 over Indiana.  The precedent is already there for teams to "over come early season losses".  I just find it fascinating what the powers that be will do for that "marque" match up.  OSU was cruising into the play offs no matter what for weeks now hell they were slotted into the 4 at the start of the season for the most part.

I agree.  There is a lot of human element in the final rankings.  That's what everyone wanted when they did away with the BCS.

On the bright side for Penn St...they don't have to play Bama.  They actually have a chance at winning their bowl game now.

[cpohog]

What if the NFL played by those same rules? The AFC South leader is Houston at 6-6. The second place team in the AFC West is KC with a 9-3 record....obviously KC would be in and Houston would not even get a playoff spot due to so many other AFC teams having better records. This would fracture the entire NFL system as we know it today if this were to happen.

So lets look at the CFP for a minute.

Penn St lost to Mich and Pitt....this is the same Pitt team that gave Clemson it's only loss. Penn St defeats Ohio St who barely beat Mich.
Based off this alone I feel Penn St deserves to be in over OSU.....AS THE B10 Champ!!

The only way to prevent this catastrophe from happening again would be to go to an 8 team playoff system.

1) All P-5 Conference Champs are automatic 2016: 1) Alabama (SEC) 2) Clemson (ACC) 3) Penn St (B10) 4) Wash (Pac12) 5) OU (B12)
2) 3 wild cards earn their way in using a selection committee and similar selection process as used today. Wild Cards: 1) OSU 2) Mich 3) W. Mich or USC???

[grayhawg]

...and lost to Pitt and Michigan (by 39). If PSU beats Pitt, they are in.

So because Pitt beat PSU, the conference championship and victory in championship game means nothing, like I said they should have just penciled in Ohio State in August ESPN  $$$$$ rules.

[Qadi999]

No matter who should or should not be in , why would  a conf subject their best teams to another loss or the chance to lose an important player . What benefit is there for the conf to play a conf champ game?

[DiamondHogFan]

What if the NFL played by those same rules? The AFC South leader is Houston at 6-6. The second place team in the AFC West is KC with a 9-3 record....obviously KC would be in and Houston would not even get a playoff spot due to so many other AFC teams having better records. This would fracture the entire NFL system as we know it today if this were to happen.

So lets look at the CFP for a minute.

Penn St lost to Mich and Pitt....this is the same Pitt team that gave Clemson it's only loss. Penn St defeats Ohio St who barely beat Mich.
Based off this alone I feel Penn St deserves to be in over OSU.....AS THE B10 Champ!!

The only way to prevent this catastrophe from happening again would be to go to an 8 team playoff system.

1) All P-5 Conference Champs are automatic 2016: 1) Alabama (SEC) 2) Clemson (ACC) 3) Penn St (B10) 4) Wash (Pac12) 5) OU (B12)
2) 3 wild cards earn their way in using a selection committee and similar selection process as used today. Wild Cards: 1) OSU 2) Mich 3) W. Mich or USC???

There will always be a 3rd place in final 2 scenario, a 5th place in a 4 team scenario, and 9th place in a 8 team scenario...

This is what makes college football great...September games matter. 

This is what makes college football painful...September games matter.

The NFL comparison just doesn't work.  They have a much more even playing field across the conferences/divisions. 

And about the bold part...based off of what alone?

[PonderinHog]

No matter who should or should not be in , why would  a conf subject their best teams to another loss or the chance to lose an important player . What benefit is there for the conf to play a conf champ game?

Money.

[BrooklynRoss]

Kill the conference championships and expand the playoff to 12 teams (4 with a bye) over 4 weeks. I will not stop complaining loudly to both of my cats until this happens.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

So because Pitt beat PSU, the conference championship and victory in championship game means nothing, like I said they should have just penciled in Ohio State in August ESPN  $$$$$ rules.

No, the championship does mean something. It means that a 2-loss PSU team was in the conversation vs a 1-loss, PAC-12 Champion Washington.

[rhames]

...and lost to Pitt and Michigan (by 39). If PSU beats Pitt, they are in.

How people don't this is beyond me.

[buldozer]

Yep, Alabama should have just forfeited the game and focused on the playoff. Why play an extra game when you are ranked in the top 4 and not playing one of those teams? The answer is there is no longer a reason at all.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

What if the NFL played by those same rules? The AFC South leader is Houston at 6-6. The second place team in the AFC West is KC with a 9-3 record....obviously KC would be in and Houston would not even get a playoff spot due to so many other AFC teams having better records. This would fracture the entire NFL system as we know it today if this were to happen.

So lets look at the CFP for a minute.

Penn St lost to Mich and Pitt....this is the same Pitt team that gave Clemson it's only loss. Penn St defeats Ohio St who barely beat Mich.
Based off this alone I feel Penn St deserves to be in over OSU.....AS THE B10 Champ!!

The only way to prevent this catastrophe from happening again would be to go to an 8 team playoff system.

1) All P-5 Conference Champs are automatic 2016: 1) Alabama (SEC) 2) Clemson (ACC) 3) Penn St (B10) 4) Wash (Pac12) 5) OU (B12)
2) 3 wild cards earn their way in using a selection committee and similar selection process as used today. Wild Cards: 1) OSU 2) Mich 3) W. Mich or USC???

Catastrophe? I don't think it's quite to that point....in the grand scheme of life.

[rhames]

So why are all of you who are so upset about Penn state not upset about Oklahoma?

[DiamondHogFan]

Yep, Alabama should have just forfeited the game and focused on the playoff. Why play an extra game when you are ranked in the top 4 and not playing one of those teams? The answer is there is no longer a reason at all.

You're right.  In Alabama's case (undefeated), the outcome of the championship game probably had no affect on them getting into the playoffs although they probably wouldn't be #1.  If Bama would have had a loss already, there would have definitely been a reason to win the game.

Every year is different.  I like it that way.  A wild final rankings in the Big 10.  Penn St's loss to Pitt being the deciding factor.

[DiamondHogFan]

So why are all of you who are so upset about Penn state not upset about Oklahoma?

Because there isn't a Big 12 team in it.  The anger comes from a Big 10 team that is not the conference champion being in the playoffs.

[Hogarusa]

No

Some of you act like Ohio St didnt do anything this year. They are 11-1 with wins over Big 12 champ OU on the road, Michigan, and road win at Wiscy.  They lost a night road game on a last minute FG block return to the #5 team in the country.

That seems like a better resume than a loss to Pitt and 40 point loss to Michigan.

[rhames]

Because there isn't a Big 12 team in it.  The anger comes from a Big 10 team that is not the conference champion being in the playoffs.

That had more loses than the team that's in it.

[mweston]

I'd like to see the average strength of schedule during each coach's tenture for comparison.  Was the SEC really strong during each coach's tenure or was it a bit weak?

[rhames]

No

Some of you act like Ohio St didnt do anything this year. They are 11-1 with wins over Big 12 champ OU on the road, Michigan, and road win at Wiscy.  They lost a night road game on a last minute FG block return to the #5 team in the country.

That seems like a better resume than a loss to Pitt and 40 point loss to Michigan.

Bingo

[mweston]

The 4th spot was not between PSU & OSU. It was between PSU & Wash.
Alabama would have been in even if Florida would have beaten them. Just like OSU was in regardless of who won the Big 10 title game. The loss to Pitt is what kept PSU out of the playoff, Not OSU.

Then why didn't Clemson fall out of the playoff?  They lost to Pitt too.

[DiamondHogFan]

Then why didn't Clemson fall out of the playoff?  They lost to Pitt too.

1 loss or 2 losses...which is better?

Clemson didn't lose a conference game by 39 points...or by 1 point actually.

[311Hog]

No

Some of you act like Ohio St didnt do anything this year. They are 11-1 with wins over Big 12 champ OU on the road, Michigan, and road win at Wiscy.  They lost a night road game on a last minute FG block return to the #5 team in the country.

That seems like a better resume than a loss to Pitt and 40 point loss to Michigan.

and I would agree with you except for that little thing of PSU beat OSU head to head and won the conference championship.  As I have said if OSU was ANY OTHER B10 team they would have been bounced in favor of the conference champion but because of who OSU is they get in.

I know it is crazy, but think about it you have a b10 team in the playoff and it isn't the team they just crowned as their champion.  That fundamentally makes no sense what so ever.  It also should never be possible.

[DiamondHogFan]

and I would agree with you except for that little thing of PSU beat OSU head to head and won the conference championship.  As I have said if OSU was ANY OTHER B10 team they would have been bounced in favor of the conference champion but because of who OSU is they get in.

I know it is crazy, but think about it you have a b10 team in the playoff and it isn't the team they just crowned as their champion.  That fundamentally makes no sense what so ever.  It also should never be possible.

Washington would have been the team that would have gotten "bounced", unfortunately.

[311Hog]

Washington would have been the team that would have gotten "bounced", unfortunately.

yeah which just furthers my point of how Teflon OSU and Meyer are.  Washington won their league and there are no arguments about that same with Clemson and Bama.  One of these things is not like the others....

[mweston]

But, what does a comissioner of a conference tell his members to strive for moving forward?  Win your conference championship?  Schedule a strong out of conference schedule?  Just win and pray you don't get screwed over?

[rhames]

Because there isn't a Big 12 team in it.  The anger comes from a Big 10 team that is not the conference champion being in the playoffs.

So If Florida would have beaten Bama you think Bama shouldn't get in?

[duck slayer]

No

Some of you act like Ohio St didnt do anything this year. They are 11-1 with wins over Big 12 champ OU on the road, Michigan, and road win at Wiscy.  They lost a night road game on a last minute FG block return to the #5 team in the country.

That seems like a better resume than a loss to Pitt and 40 point loss to Michigan.

While I don't disagree with any of this, the problem to me is that you have to accept the fact that 14 teams playing 126 conference games and a championship doesn't mean anything.  I do think OSU is one of the 4 best, but I also can't accept them getting the nod over PSU, so the only conclusion is that 4 isn't enough, but we already knew that.

[Hogarusa]

and I would agree with you except for that little thing of PSU beat OSU head to head and won the conference championship.  As I have said if OSU was ANY OTHER B10 team they would have been bounced in favor of the conference champion but because of who OSU is they get in.

OSU were left out last year at 11-1, hurts anyone's argument who wants to say they got in because of their name and who their coach is.

The B1G champion got in w/ a H2H over Ohio St and laid an egg, 38-0 loss to Bama. Ohio St was the better team last year, they are the better team this year.

H2H should not be an eliminator

[311Hog]

So If Florida would have beaten Bama you think Bama shouldn't get in?

but your example isn't the same.

Imagine Bama goes 11-1 and lets say loses to Auburn by 3.  Auburn goes 10-2 loses 2 non conference games in Sept. but is on a winning streak and goes to Atlanta to play in the SEC championship game.  Auburn wins the championship game but is denied in the playoff but Bama gets in.

So Auburn is SEC champs and have beaten Bama head to head but is left out of the play off because of Bama's reputation and the talking heads.

edit: Auburns 2 losses are 1 non con by 3 to a good team that beat one of the other playoff teams, and one early season blow out to LSU who lost to Bama and another conference loss so they couldn't represent the west in the SEC champ game.

[DiamondHogFan]

So If Florida would have beaten Bama you think Bama shouldn't get in?

What?  The anger is from a deserving Penn St not getting in over a deserving Ohio St.

Florida doesn't deserve to be in the playoffs even if they won the conference.  Bama would still deserve to be in with 1 loss.

I don't see what your point is.

[311Hog]

OSU were left out last year at 11-1, hurts anyone's argument who wants to say they got in because of their name and who their coach is.

The B1G champion got in w/ a H2H over Ohio St and laid an egg, 38-0 loss to Bama. Ohio St was the better team last year, they are the better team this year.

H2H should not be an eliminator

Past performance by a totally different team is not an indicator of future success or lack there of.  It isn't JUST the H2h, PSU is also the conference champion earned on the field.  I mean I almost could understand it if some fluke allowed PSU to become the b10 champion and they ended up ranked like Auburn in the teens but they were freaking number 5 lol so one spot out of the 4 and a team they beat is in.  That just makes no logical sense.

[DiamondHogFan]

Past performance by a totally different team is not an indicator of future success or lack there of.  It isn't JUST the H2h, PSU is also the conference champion earned on the field.  I mean I almost could understand it if some fluke allowed PSU to become the b10 champion and they ended up ranked like Auburn in the teens but they were freaking number 5 lol so one spot out of the 4 and a team they beat is in.  That just makes no logical sense.

It doesn't make sense when you look at the conference slate alone.  It's the extra loss that causes it to make sense in the committee's opinion.

Maybe the non-conference games should be like NFL preseason games and not count in the end.

[mweston]

So If Florida would have beaten Bama you think Bama shouldn't get in?

Based on the criteria that the committee has put forth the last two years, I would say yes Bama should not get in.

If they start taking non conference champions over conference champions how is this better than the BCS or what we had prior to the BCS?  It sets up a dangerous precident.  What if we have a three way tie in the SEC West one year between Arkansas, Bama, and LSU, and all three have one loss should all three get in creating a playoff where only one team isn't from the same conference?

Where do you draw the line?  Also how does this help the non-power five conferences?  This year we have W. Michigan that went undefeated, but what if that had been Boise St.?  What do you do with Notre Dame if they go undefeated?  With only picking conference champions you had a clear cut definition of what is required to get into the playoff.  You are always going to have controversy as there are only four spots.