Prop Work

[GusMcRae]

The seals on my prop are slowly getting worse.  First noticed a few little oil streaks on the prop (over a year ago), then started to get a little sheen on the windshield right in front of the passenger, and now that has worsened and gradually leaves a mess on the leading edges of the horizontal stabliizer, wings, struts, landing gear, etc.... 
Flew to KSAT and back last weekend, flying to KICT tomorrow, back Friday. 
As soon as I get back I have mx lined up to pull the prop and send it to Dallas to get the seals replaced. 
About to have some down time. 

[gotyacovered]

The seals on my prop are slowly getting worse.  First noticed a few little oil streaks on the prop (over a year ago), then started to get a little sheen on the windshield right in front of the passenger, and now that has worsened and gradually leaves a mess on the leading edges of the horizontal stabliizer, wings, struts, landing gear, etc.... 
Flew to KSAT and back last weekend, flying to KICT tomorrow, back Friday. 
As soon as I get back I have mx lined up to pull the prop and send it to Dallas to get the seals replaced. 
About to have some down time. 

Been there. There is an AD out there that if opened up needs to be complied with. Odds are that it's been done but mine wasn't. $2400 Memphis propeller.

[Hankweb]

Man Gus! I'm sorry. You've had a rough go of it over the last year.
If you're like me though I always tell myself " Well...nice to get that taken care of...that'll be the last big thing for a while"! Hoping it is for you.

[GusMcRae]

High wind warnings prevented us flying to ICT.  Had to drive,,, uggghhh.  Prop coming off today.  Will replace the crank shaft seal while we have the prop off,,, ever so slight leak developing there. 
Will change the oil while it's down (using Aeroshell mineral oil right now since we were breaking in a new cylinder) and will be switching to Phillips. 
While the cowling is off, will be trying to figure out if the suction filter inside the engine comartment is stopped up or if I need to go ahead and replace the pump (DG lags behind while doing lots of turning such as with instrument approaches, or on cross country flights I'm constantly have to adjust it as it gets just a degree or 2 off,,,, alot!).  Hoping it's the filter in the engine compartment,,, the one in the cockpit behind the instrument panel is fine. 

Oh yeah, my 430 screen appears to be going out.  CFI says I should upgrade it to WAAS while I'm at it,,,, $3800 upgrade,,,,, YIKES!

[GusMcRae]

Went out yesterday afternoon to see if the mx got to my prop, he will do the work in my hangar.  He had not.  Went over to the hangar he bases out of and caught him there working on a FG Cardinal.  I've always liked the looks of a cardinal, and at one time thought that's what I was leaning towards before deciding on a 182, and really had a boner for a 177RG.  That sloped windshield, large doors, no wing struts,,,, they just look good!  I was admiring it while visiting with him about when he would get to my prop.  He was frustrated about something so I didn't want to take up much of his time, but mentioned that I had always liked the cardinals. 
He said if he had about 4 regular customers with Cardinals, or C-210s, he could stay as busy as he ever wanted to be.  He said those 2 planes seem to be the hardest planes to work on for him as everything is hard to get to.  Has no problems working on 182s.... 

[GusMcRae]

Been there. There is an AD out there that if opened up needs to be complied with. Odds are that it's been done but mine wasn't. $2400 Memphis propeller.

If it's a half way recent AD, probably not been done. 
Prop is off and already in Ft Worth.  The guy at the prop shop told my mx that if they had to go completely through it that it would be about $2500.  Figures.... 
Mx told the guy to call him if it turned out to be like that,,,, not sure what for,,,, just to get a green light from me I suppose.  What are we going to do, put it back on the way it was leaking oil?  Nope. 

Have decided to replace the vaccum hoses to see if that will eliminate the lagging DG problem.  Another mx looking into that today.     

[gotyacovered]

looked over my log last night. there was no AD complied with, not sure where i dreamed that up, sorry.

[GusMcRae]

looked over my log last night. there was no AD complied with, not sure where i dreamed that up, sorry.

No problem. 
I don't know anything yet.  I'm expecting the worst case secenario, plus some. 

[GusMcRae]

Finally have some news on my prop.  Cracked prop nut, not sealing good, thus the leak.
McCauley does not make the parts for this prop anymore.  The shop is having trouble finding a nut anywhere.  Has some (sounded like used) coming from another prop shop in SA.  If he can pick one out that is still good, then they can have it back together and ready to go by next Wed, at the earliest. 
This guy said that he has other props like mine sitting around his shop that he can't find parts for,,,, so,,, I better get ready to replace a prop the next time something goes wrong with this one. 
Add to my list of reasons to trade planes,,,,,, 

[gotyacovered]

Finally have some news on my prop.  Cracked prop nut, not sealing good, thus the leak.
McCauley does not make the parts for this prop anymore.  The shop is having trouble finding a nut anywhere.  Has some (sounded like used) coming from another prop shop in SA.  If he can pick one out that is still good, then they can have it back together and ready to go by next Wed, at the earliest. 
This guy said that he has other props like mine sitting around his shop that he can't find parts for,,,, so,,, I better get ready to replace a prop the next time something goes wrong with this one. 
Add to my list of reasons to trade planes,,,,,, 

haha.... we need that 210. this forum needs that 210. YOU need that 210.

do it for us!!! although i may actually pass out due to jealously.

you have the 82' mccauley prop?

[Pistol Pete]

haha.... we need that 210. this forum needs that 210. YOU need that 210.

do it for us!!! although i may actually pass out due to jealously.

you have the 82' mccauley prop?

We ALL need a 210!!!

Haha... Ironically, I was talking to a friend yesterday (actually, I mostly listened). He has a 180, had a 182 and a 210. He has just over 5,000 hours, uses his airplane for work mostly... He said the best model (his favorite) he owned was the 182. Roomy, good payload, decent fuel burn and speed. He didn't go into details, but he didn't like the 210 mainly because of the landing gear.
I know it's just another opinion but I've heard it over and over. 182 is a great compromise between fuel burn, speed, payload, and affordability.

[GusMcRae]

My prop is a McCauley, but I'm not sure what the model number is.  The prop log book is sitting in the plane right now.  I'll look the next time I'm out there. 

Pete, sometimes I think a 182 is all I'll be able to afford, and not really sure I can even afford it. 
I would like to own one that's a little newer than mine someday, and think maybe a 182RG might be a decent way to go as well. 

[GusMcRae]

Prop shop found a part and should have it back together today! 

Maybe I'll be back in business by the weekend if I can arrange to get picked up today or tomorrow.

[gotyacovered]

Prop shop found a part and should have it back together today! 

Maybe I'll be back in business by the weekend if I can arrange to get picked up today or tomorrow.

always nice to have your baby back home!!!

[Hankweb]

We ALL need a 210!!!

Haha... Ironically, I was talking to a friend yesterday (actually, I mostly listened). He has a 180, had a 182 and a 210. He has just over 5,000 hours, uses his airplane for work mostly... He said the best model (his favorite) he owned was the 182. Roomy, good payload, decent fuel burn and speed. He didn't go into details, but he didn't like the 210 mainly because of the landing gear.
I know it's just another opinion but I've heard it over and over. 182 is a great compromise between fuel burn, speed, payload, and affordability.

Was a partner in a T210 for a short while. A small part of the reason I switched over to an A36 when I got out of the partnership and went solo owner was 210 landing gear. Didnt have issues...but potential issues. Interestingly enough the day I flew my Bonanza back from California I had a gear motor failure, cranked down my gear, and headed straight to Morrilton to drop it with Bill Paul for repair!
  Anyone considering a 210 purchase should not make it without first going through John Franks' definitive book on 210's

[gotyacovered]

Was a partner in a T210 for a short while. A small part of the reason I switched over to an A36 when I got out of the partnership and went solo owner was 210 landing gear. Didnt have issues...but potential issues. Interestingly enough the day I flew my Bonanza back from California I had a gear motor failure, cranked down my gear, and headed straight to Morrilton to drop it with Bill Paul for repair!
  Anyone considering a 210 purchase should not make it without first going through John Franks' definitive book on 210's

ah... now you just went and got all classy on us.

at comaprable vintages, i would image an A36 has a higher acquisition cost, but is a little better from a operations stand point, no? wonder which aircraft wins in the load hauling category? assuming each carry the same amount of fuel.

[GusMcRae]

Was a partner in a T210 for a short while. A small part of the reason I switched over to an A36 when I got out of the partnership and went solo owner was 210 landing gear. Didnt have issues...but potential issues. Interestingly enough the day I flew my Bonanza back from California I had a gear motor failure, cranked down my gear, and headed straight to Morrilton to drop it with Bill Paul for repair!
  Anyone considering a 210 purchase should not make it without first going through John Franks' definitive book on 210's

Morrilton.  Small world.  That's where we bought the C150, and we did walk over to the shop there.  Very nice looking shop, clean as a whistle.  Funny story,,, and no offense to you Arkie folk.  The mx I had with me to do the pre-buy wanted to get on the internet to check weather or something over at the shop b/c the terminal was having some re-modeling done and they had it locked up.  The guy that seemed to be in charge of the shop said they didn't have internet there at his office.  There was a bearded fellow there that would fit right in with the Robertson clan from Duck Dynasty, kind of had a back-woods wild eyed look, probably in his 30s chimed right in and said "this is Arkansas you know", and we all laughed, but I think I got the biggest kick out of it. 
I will laugh even harder if he's on this forum. 

Prop bill was $1,285.  It will be here in a few hours.

Curious, is Bill Paul's shop a reputable shop for working on P210s?

[gotyacovered]

i need your mech, gus!!! did you use a "local" shop or send it off to a prop shop?

hey did you happen to watch my KRTN landing video in 'cool pics' thread? just curious, nobody said anything and was worried the link was broke, although it works for me.

[GusMcRae]

i need your mech, gus!!! did you use a "local" shop or send it off to a prop shop?

hey did you happen to watch my KRTN landing video in 'cool pics' thread? just curious, nobody said anything and was worried the link was broke, although it works for me.

Local mx removed and took the prop to Byam Propeller Services, located at Meachum Field (FTW) in Ft Worth.  Was also told there's a good prop shop in Mustang, Oklahoma, not sure of the name.

I think I tried a link there and it didn't work, but I'll try again and let you know.

[GusMcRae]

Ok, I remember now.  I'll have to watch it from home computer. 

In regard to Cessna 210 gear problems, it would seem that 182RG would have the same gear or very similar gear. 
Are there issues with 182RG gear too?

[GusMcRae]

i need your mech, gus!!! did you use a "local" shop or send it off to a prop shop?

Sent you Byam's contact info.

[GusMcRae]

The MX situation around home base is very frustrating.  MX that pulled the prop had to leave Saturday for a 2 week trip, so he contracts another MX with limited experience to pinch hit for him.  Subcontracted MX started looking into the job yesterday, with his research of the job requirements.  He doesn't have any reservations about taking on the installation of the prop, but he's balking at replacing the crank shaft seal,,, sounds like he has not replaced one, or not one like this, and is a little scared about it.  He doesn't think there's that much of a leak going on there, but that's because I've sprayed it  down with av-gas to clean it up. 
I'm holding my ground, prop is off now, already have the new seal, I don't want to get it back on and regret not replacing it. 
Book calls for replacing all of the lock nuts on the prop, so they have to be ordered.  This should have already been done if the original MX was tending to his business. 
Prop governor has developed a pretty good leak as well.  I'm leaning towards pulling it off to have it overhauled while the plane is down as well,,,,, it may just be a bad seal where the shaft comes out of the governor.  Initial rough estimate to overhaul the prop governor is between $500 and $1000. 
Although it is minimal in regard to how much the plane uses, I'm tired of the oil dripping down inside the engine compartment, and winding up on the belly of the plane. 

[john c]

Maybe have substitute pull governor, send it in for overhaul, get other parts in and wait till regular guy returns to install.  Unknown guy with limited experience doing unknown work - worth a pause.  Why does substitute have this extra time on his hands to fool around with your plane?

[GusMcRae]

Maybe have substitute pull governor, send it in for overhaul, get other parts in and wait till regular guy returns to install.  Unknown guy with limited experience doing unknown work - worth a pause.  Why does substitute have this extra time on his hands to fool around with your plane?

I got the info off of the prop governor, called a recommended shop, the guy said it is very old but he can work on it.  It was an A model, and they're all the way up to a K model.  Said that he will have to replace a couple of parts (gear and flyweight) that are in addition to the base price.  So it will wind up being in excess of $1k.  And I think I am going to have the sub mx pull it off so we can get it sent off. 
This guy is not a full time mx.  Doesn't have a shop, works out of his hangar, or out of the owner's hangar.  He does a few annuals, oil changes, brake jobs, etc...  His experience with doing engine work is limited.  He is always very thorough with his research, very adament about proper torqueing, and has always been very reasonable when he has done work for me.  I've spoke to him again about the crank shaft seal, and he's fine with it.  Think he just had cold feet.

[GusMcRae]

New Crank shaft seal has now been installed.  I watched/helped the guy go back in with the new seal. 
Prop governor has been removed and shipped to S&T Aircraft Accessories.  Supposed to be a good shop, located in New Braunfels, TX.  Not sure how long that's going to take. 
Waiting on new lock-nuts to put the prop back on.   

[GusMcRae]

you have the 82' mccauley prop?

It is an 82" McCauley.

And I got a text from the mx during lunch.  It's back on.  Waiting on the governor now. 

[gotyacovered]

It is an 82" McCauley.

And I got a text from the mx during lunch.  It's back on.  Waiting on the governor now. 

figured so...

on another note i posted a request to buy add on red board and got a hit on a EI engine analyzer (UBG-16)... pretty excited, although in the over all scheme of things i am only saving a miniscule amount

[GusMcRae]

figured so...

on another note i posted a request to buy add on red board and got a hit on a EI engine analyzer (UBG-16)... pretty excited, although in the over all scheme of things i am only saving a miniscule amount

I looked at your post over there and just as I suspected, it's the same one that I had a little exchange with the same guy on.  The way I took his description to me was that it wouldn't work unless I had the Tanis heaters, so I passed.  Probably just my ignorance of the install procedure.  But his explanation to you seemed clearer to me, that it would have worked.  Good luck with all that.  I'm sure it's a good unit for half price.  I may be delaying my pursuit of an engine monitor since the prop and governor work is hitting me in the pocket pretty good. 
I do have a request for a price quote from my avionics shop for a new EI-UBG 16, installed.  New unit from Spruce was $1548 a while back. When I talked to him about it, he asked if I might want to go with a unit that had a digital tach, and do away with my old one, to which I replied I didn't think so.  But what he's getting at is that space is getting pretty scarce behind my instrument panel, even though there is an unused hole.  Haven't gotten the estimate yet.

[gotyacovered]

I looked at your post over there and just as I suspected, it's the same one that I had a little exchange with the same guy on.  The way I took his description to me was that it wouldn't work unless I had the Tanis heaters, so I passed.  Probably just my ignorance of the install procedure.  But his explanation to you seemed clearer to me, that it would have worked.  Good luck with all that.  I'm sure it's a good unit for half price.  I may be delaying my pursuit of an engine monitor since the prop and governor work is hitting me in the pocket pretty good. 
I do have a request for a price quote from my avionics shop for a new EI-UBG 16, installed.  New unit from Spruce was $1548 a while back. When I talked to him about it, he asked if I might want to go with a unit that had a digital tach, and do away with my old one, to which I replied I didn't think so.  But what he's getting at is that space is getting pretty scarce behind my instrument panel, even though there is an unused hole.  Haven't gotten the estimate yet.

i just got an email back from my shop doing the engine... he said the unit would be fine, pre-heat stuff and all.

[GusMcRae]

i just got an email back from my shop doing the engine... he said the unit would be fine, pre-heat stuff and all.

Great!  $400 to install sounds extremely reasonable (quote from the thread on your engine replace) and I'm very anxious to see if that's ballpark of what I'm quoted.

I went back and read Jeff King's e-mail to me, and it just said I would have to get different probes.  I didn't price new probes, but my line of thinking was if I'm going to have to buy new probes, and I'm not getting a warranty, maybe I should just pass on this deal and buy new. 

Is 653 officially under the knife yet?
 

[john c]

While you guys are doing all that, consider getting a new metal instrument panel made.  Put everything where you want it (mostly, depending on depth of avionics) and get rid of the plastic overlay.  The shops that do it use a computer and CNC machine.  Kings in Olathe is a good shop.

[GusMcRae]

While you guys are doing all that, consider getting a new metal instrument panel made.  Put everything where you want it (mostly, depending on depth of avionics) and get rid of the plastic overlay.  The shops that do it use a computer and CNC machine.  Kings in Olathe is a good shop.

I considered that back when I had some other avionics work done.  The quote for that and 11 panel ring lights to replace the post lights I currently have was $8,270.  That seems outrageous.
I passed. 
Maybe someday, but I'm not sure I want to spend that on my plane that I may not wind up keeping all that long.   

[gotyacovered]

Great!  $400 to install sounds extremely reasonable (quote from the thread on your engine replace) and I'm very anxious to see if that's ballpark of what I'm quoted.

I went back and read Jeff King's e-mail to me, and it just said I would have to get different probes.  I didn't price new probes, but my line of thinking was if I'm going to have to buy new probes, and I'm not getting a warranty, maybe I should just pass on this deal and buy new. 

Is 653 officially under the knife yet?

ya... i think i am going to end up buying it. i have a PM from him i cant read for some reason, but i have a feeling it is another offer for lower price. he said its been sitting for 4 years...

nope, there are a few things up in the air, and my partner is dragging his feet. still looking like a mid-may install. come to find out the shop that is actually doing the -50 build is a licensed P.Ponk shop wants at least 6 weeks to put it together. we have not paid the 'get started $10k yet' so we will see if its going to folllow the timeline. i will update my thread soon with additional details. in short he there was a delay in getting back with me about the never overhauled core. finally verfied it has never been overhauled and then my partner went on a 10 day cruise. so goes life.

[john c]

I considered that back when I had some other avionics work done.  The quote for that and 11 panel ring lights to replace the post lights I currently have was $8,270.  That seems outrageous.
I passed. 
Maybe someday, but I'm not sure I want to spend that on my plane that I may not wind up keeping all that long.   

That would be outrageous.  I don't think I paid anywhere remotely close to that much or would never have done it.  Memory is that we also put in new panel lights (LED?).  Prompts me to pull out the records and see.  There is enough of this being done that templates are available and it can be fun to arrange everything on a panel and see what it would cost.

[GusMcRae]

Finally got a call from the prop governer shop.  $1605 to fix.  $625 base overhaul price, they claim it had to have a fly weight, a gear, and a new cover, all of which are in addition to the base price.  Costing more than it cost me to get the prop fixed! 
New governor from Cessna is $1935.  Supposedly they make some throw away models (can't be overhauled) for less than what it's costing to have this one repaired. 
I decided to go ahead with fixing this one.  Dang-it!

Meanwhile, I'm going to fly a local 1958 straight tail C-182 that seldom gets flown for a couple of quick day-trips I need to take on Friday and Sunday. 

[gotyacovered]

Finally got a call from the prop governer shop.  $1605 to fix.  $625 base overhaul price, they claim it had to have a fly weight, a gear, and a new cover, all of which are in addition to the base price.  Costing more than it cost me to get the prop fixed! 
New governor from Cessna is $1935.  Supposedly they make some throw away models (can't be overhauled) for less than what it's costing to have this one repaired. 
I decided to go ahead with fixing this one.  Dang-it!

Meanwhile, I'm going to fly a local 1958 straight tail C-182 that seldom gets flown for a couple of quick day-trips I need to take on Friday and Sunday. 

haha... getting closer to my $2400 number

[GusMcRae]

haha... getting closer to my $2400 number

Hey,,, what are you laughing at?

Yep, I'm way over the $2400, but I am resolving more than just the prop issue itself. 
Ticks me off how long it's taking, which is partly my fault for delaying the decision to pull the governor off.  Should have sent it off the same time the prop was off.

So, it's going to wind up taking as long as your p-ponk is estimated to take once you pull the trigger.

[GusMcRae]

Governor came in Friday mid-morning.  Long story short, got it all back together, checked out, and flew it Friday for a 180 mile xc.  Nice to have it back together and in the air.  Still have suction issues,,,, we will get to the bottom of that. 
Would have flown it yesterday as well, but wx prevented it.  Had to drive.

[gotyacovered]

Governor came in Friday mid-morning.  Long story short, got it all back together, checked out, and flew it Friday for a 180 mile xc.  Nice to have it back together and in the air.  Still have suction issues,,,, we will get to the bottom of that. 
Would have flown it yesterday as well, but wx prevented it.  Had to drive.

good deal...

i had tons of issues KHOT - KLIT - M18 yesterday. you would think it would have been weather related, nope... my 696 was acting up and i wasnt departing with no radar/metar/lightning info. although an hour late i beat the bad stuff home by about 3 hours.