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Please respond if you are for rational discussion: Razorback Football

Started by TOM "tbw1", December 08, 2013, 06:01:24 pm

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Mulberry Squeezins

I loved Petrino and I was pissed to the max when Long fired him.  In terms of how everything was handled, I probably relate more the poster who said Long should have had his ducks in a row before letting BP go.  And he should have known that JLS wasn't a real option. 

I'm still not convinced that Long couldn't find a way to retain BP, i've even thought that something outside the box like working out a deal with Bobby, where he would be take on a sort of interim status as punishment, with a corresponding reduction in salary.  Hell, if the ptb felt that BP must go, then cut a deal behind closed doors that give us the option to terminate at the end of 2012 on the grounds that evoked the firing in the Spring.   

You may think BP wouldn't take a deal like that and perhaps you're right, but what is there to lose?  If you gave him time to think it through, my guess is he would see the advantage to something like this over getting fired on the spot.  It would give him a chance to resurrect his name and seek options with his stock still on the rise.  The benefit for our program is we would have a seamless interim and avoid having our hands tied seeking options during a time when few options were available.  The only risk I see is Long might be in a tough spot if BP ran the table, but that would have been a pretty nice problem to have.  I know something like this would never happen, but it should.

Since I was of the mindset that the GOBN needed to be broken up, I was left with having to take a wait and see attitude with Long's hire. My fear back then was we'd settle for some unproven up and comer from a smaller school, or coordinator from a larger BCS Conference school.  I was prepared to pull my support financially if something like that would have occurred. 

For all intents and purposes, on paper BB was a great hire.  He's a proven winner in a major conference, who's also proven he's capable of recognizing talent and developing them to a level that puts players in the NFL.  The jury is still out as to whether or not he is a good fit for Arkansas. Nobody's happy with going win less in conference play, but having patience doesn't equate to blind loyalty or drinking Kook Aid. 

It would be one thing if we didn't see things like recruits from his very first recruiting class in BB's very first year having an immediate and positive impact.  The incredible rolling start we have with the 2015 class.  The improvement the last half of the season with young players logging a ton of playing time.  There is a foundation here for fans to show some patience. 

But patience may as well be among the extinct words in our vocabulary.  It's the McDonald's curse I guess.  We have too many snot noses running around, who've been raise in the McDonald's drive through, who go ape**** if they have to  wait more than a minute for their order of fries.         

urkillnmesmalls

Quote from: dustypig on December 10, 2013, 09:08:27 am
I loved Petrino and I was pissed to the max when Long fired him.  In terms of how everything was handled, I probably relate more the poster who said Long should have had his ducks in a row before letting BP go.  And he should have known that JLS wasn't a real option.  He even contends that BP may have made a last ditch effort to discuss them, but it was too late.  Don't shoot the messenger...you can look it up for yourself.   

I'm still not convinced that Long couldn't find a way to retain BP, i've even thought that something outside the box like working out a deal with Bobby, where he would be take on a sort of interim status as punishment, with a corresponding reduction in salary.  Hell, if the ptb felt that BP must go, then cut a deal behind closed doors that give us the option to terminate in 2012 on the grounds that evoked the firing in the Spring.   

You may think BP wouldn't take a deal like that and perhaps you're right, but what is there to lose?  If you gave him time to think it through, my guess is he would see the advantage to something like this over getting fired on the spot.  It would give him a chance to resurrect his name and seek options with his stock still on the rise.  The benefit for our program is we would have a seamless interim and avoid having our hands tied seeking options during a time when few options were available.  The only risk I see is Long might be in a tough spot if BP ran the table, but that would have been a pretty nice problem to have.  I know something like this would never happen, but it should.

Since I was of the mindset that the GOBN needed to be broken up, I was left with having to take a wait and see attitude with Long's hire. My fear back then was we'd settle for some unproven up and comer from a smaller school, or coordinator from a larger BCS Conference school.  I was prepared to pull my support financially if something like that would have occurred. 

For all intents and purposes, on paper BB was a great hire.  He's a proven winner in a major conference, who's also proven he's capable of recognizing talent and developing them to a level that puts players in the NFL.  The jury is still out as to whether or not he is a good fit for Arkansas. Nobody's happy with going win less in conference play, but having patience doesn't equate to blind loyalty or drinking Kook Aid. 

It would be one thing if we didn't see things like recruits from his very first recruiting class in BB's very first year having an immediate and positive impact.  The incredible rolling start we have with the 2015 class.  The improvement the last half of the season with young players logging a ton of playing time.

Patience may as well be among the extinct words in our vocabulary.  It's the McDonald's curse I guess.  We have too many snot noses running around, who've been raise in the McDonald's drive through, who go ape**** if they have to  wait more than a minute for their order of fries.         

Look up Mike Irwin's post history.  He contends that there WAS an offer to BP that included stipulations, and BP told him they were asking him to be a Monk and refused to even consider them.  It jives with the timeline, and the reports that he met with BP to discuss his findings, and THEN drafted the termination later. 

It's water under the bridge at this point, and we'll never know what really happened.  I do know I typically trust what Mike says, and I just don't for one second believe JL made that decision all on his own.  Too much was at stake.  That's just my opinion.  I'm evaluating him on how CBB works out, because there were many other options out there, and it seems he targeted CBB early in the process.  For all I know, he may have preferred someone else, and the UA insisted on CBB...I have no clue, and I never will.  As fans, we can only speculate most of the time, even though people talk on here like it's the gospel truth with not facts to back it up. 

One thing I do know.  We NEED CBB to do well.  We need continuity, and to find a niche in the SEC to help bolster recruiting and hopefully get back where the fan base believes we deserve to be.  With a program valued at #10, we need to start having seasons that put us closer to that number in on the field success.   
I've never wanted a Hog coach to be successful more than I do for Pittman.  He's one of the good guys.

 

Mulberry Squeezins

Quote from: urkillnmesmalls on December 10, 2013, 09:17:28 am
Look up Mike Irwin's post history.  He contends that there WAS an offer to BP that included stipulations, and BP told him they were asking him to be a Monk and refused to even consider them.  It jives with the timeline, and the reports that he met with BP to discuss his findings, and THEN drafted the termination later. 

It's water under the bridge at this point, and we'll never know what really happened.  I do know I typically trust what Mike says, and I just don't for one second believe JL made that decision all on his own.  Too much was at stake.  That's just my opinion.  I'm evaluating him on how CBB works out, because there were many other options out there, and it seems he targeted CBB early in the process.  For all I know, he may have preferred someone else, and the UA insisted on CBB...I have no clue, and I never will.  As fans, we can only speculate most of the time, even though people talk on here like it's the gospel truth with not facts to back it up. 

One thing I do know.  We NEED CBB to do well.  We need continuity, and to find a niche in the SEC to help bolster recruiting and hopefully get back where the fan base believes we deserve to be.  With a program valued at #10, we need to start having seasons that put us closer to that number in on the field success.   

I don't know that I would argue with any of this.  Especially the last paragraph.  For a school that's never been on probation, it seems like our program has been in one precarious spot after another since joining the league.  Everything from Hatfield bolting, the Jack Crowe firing, the Nutt / Gus drama round 1.  The Bike Ride, and now the Gus drama round 2. 

Most of these things had an adverse negative impact on both recruiting and our fan base.  Compare our entrance into the SEC with Mizzou and A&M's.  Both of those programs were on the upswing and have enjoyed immediate success resulting in positive press coverage.  The rest SEC can say what they will about Arkansas, but they can't say that at least we haven't paid our dues.

Maybe there is some truth to the Billy Graham curse?  Once again we find ourselves in a precarious spot.  We are staring straight down the barrel at a two year losing skid that is unparallelled in the history of our program.  I may not be the sharpest rocket on the launching pad but I'm smart enough to understand that firing a head coach at the end of his first season is the absolute last thing this program needs right now.

urkillnmesmalls

Quote from: dustypig on December 10, 2013, 09:43:44 am
I don't know that I would argue with any of this.  Especially the last paragraph.  For a school that's never been on probation, it seems like our program has been in one precarious spot after another since joining the league.  Everything from Hatfield bolting, the Jack Crowe firing, the Nutt / Gus drama round 1.  The Bike Ride, and now the Gus drama round 2. 

Most of these things had an adverse negative impact on both recruiting and our fan base.  Compare our entrance into the SEC with Mizzou and A&M's.  Both of those programs were on the upswing and have enjoyed immediate success resulting in positive press coverage.  The rest SEC can say what they will about Arkansas, but they can't say that at least we haven't paid our dues.

Maybe there is some truth to the Billy Graham curse?  Once again we find ourselves in a precarious spot.  We are staring straight down the barrel at a two year losing skid that is unparallelled in the history of our program.  I may not be the sharpest rocket on the launching pad but I'm smart enough to understand that firing a head coach at the end of his first season is the absolute last thing this program needs right now.

This is a good board.  It's reflective of the different personalities you encounter in real life.  Some are willing to wait, plan for the future, and hope for the best.  Some spend every penny as they get it, never plan, and just fly by the seat of their pants.  There's no reason that shouldn't play out on the board too.   

Put a staunch Republican and the most liberal of Democrats in a room together, and they can get along fine unless the topic of politics comes up, and then they may despise each other in a matter of minutes.  Keep the discussion away from that topic, and they might otherwise be best friends.  But character...is a deeper issue.  I for one, like it that CBB is insisting on making character evaluation a big part of his program.  Some don't care. 

We can analyze nine ways to Sunday, but I am firmly of the opinion that to ever win championships and contend yearly, we have to crack the top 10 in recruiting.  It's what history shows, and while you might get a Newton type of player that can sway that notion from time to time, for sustained success it's all about having great players. 
I've never wanted a Hog coach to be successful more than I do for Pittman.  He's one of the good guys.

Wants2Win

It's easy to have good teams having top 10 recruiting classes. Thank you captain obvious. How is that relevant to hog football in Fayetteville AR? Are you suggesting we start paying players? When have we ever been top 10 recruiting? It's easy to say lets get better recruits... How do you do that? There's an old saying.... Wish in one hand and ___in the other...see which one fills first.

DoctorSusscrofa

We won't consistently get great players unless Arkansas high school football continues to improve.  Our hs football is better now than it was 25 years ago.  But we have to start producing more D1 athletes that grow up wanting to be razorbacks.  If we ever get a Shawn Andrews, a Tyler Wilson, a Darren McFadden, a Joe Adams, a Dan Hampton, a Ken Hamlin, a Steve Atwater, and a Billy Ray Smith within a 2 recruiting year cycle, instead of getting these guys spread out over decades then we'll compete for championships.  We can get some of these types from Texas or Florida, but when Arkansas produces players like these (and most of these are from Arkansas) more consistently, we'll be more competitive.
I expect to win the games we ought to win and be competitive in as many other games as possible. - M Barton

Jek Tono Porkins

I haven't waded through the thread but I just wanted to post my thoughts because I believe I am a semi-intelligent being that is somewhat capable of rational thought. I'm convinced that if this staff had the exact same players this year but had been coaching them for the past few years, the results would be totally different. People will say we had lack of talent. I buy that. But stability is what these guys need the most. Some of these guys are on their third head coach, coordinator, and position coach in three years. That's three different schemes, playbooks, verbiage systems, terminology, signals, and physical techniques. If you know anything about learning, there are principles of learning. One of them is primacy, which states that something learned first, such as a tacking technique, creates a strong, almost unshakeable impression. So when one coach tells you that "this is the right way to do this" and another coach comes in and says, no, this is the right way", it's not easy to adapt. Combine that with the fact that many of our sophomores, juniors, and seniors didn't develop at all under the Coach Smile era and you've got yourself a recipe for disaster. Also, if you've been running the same system for three or four years, the juniors and seniors can help the freshmen and sophomores out because they have it down. In year one after instability like we had, the seniors and freshmen were all picking up a new system at the same time.                  To point A of the OP, Long and the BOT realize that what the players need most is stability. This staff knows how to coach. Many of the best players on this team were freshmen, probably because the only way they've been taught is this staff's way. Stability is why Bielema's buyout is so high. At this point, if we keep riding the coaching carousel, it won't do any good. The fans need to chill out and realize that the biggest problem with this team wasn't talent or coaching. It was stability.
I have known the troubles I was born to know
I have wanted things a poor man's born to want
And in all my dreams and memories I go running
Through the fields of Arkansas from which I sprung

wachhog

Quote from: Oklahawg on December 08, 2013, 10:39:44 pm
That is the 800 pound gorilla sitting in the room.

If someone creates this headline in the newspaper tomorrow "Gus Was Unhirable at Arkansas" everyone would read and get it. Not sure it is every a publishable story. Maybe it should be. Maybe that's not the real story - but there is plenty out there that helps inform the situation that is incubating under the rug in deep slumber.
Someone in another thread speculated that "Gus was unhirable at Arkansas" because that would have given Armani Ronnie an "in" into the UA athletic department, inferring that he and his sheeple would then  become the new GOBN.  I can completely  understand that fear, and I would rather see us never have another winning season than to see that happen.  I suspect there are other Long skeptics besides me who would suppress any criticism if that were confirmed.  Or if someone would simply nod an affirmation.  Or wink or say " Bingo," or maybe just smile in agreement.

Eddie Goodson

To those of you have taken part in the last couple pages of dialogue, thank you. You are restoring my confidence in posters' ability to differ in opinions and yet discuss those differences without all the foolish trolling that has been so rampant lately.

I say it all the time, we all must reserve the right to be wrong. Being civil in a heated debate is becoming a lost art in this day and time. When you have so many people who are so passionate about their team experience the disappointment such as we've just endured it is easy to turn on each other and point fingers and muse on what could have been or what should have been. All that is futile and frustrating. It's now about looking forward to the future.

Carry on... 

"I already won the lottery. I was born in the US of A, baby. And as backup, I have a Swiss passport." — Creed Bratton

Chief Mac

Quote from: wachhog on December 10, 2013, 01:54:45 pm
Someone in another thread speculated that "Gus was unhirable at Arkansas" because that would have given Armani Ronnie an "in" into the UA athletic department, inferring that he and his sheeple would then  become the new GOBN.  I can completely  understand that fear, and I would rather see us never have another winning season than to see that happen.  I suspect there are other Long skeptics besides me who would suppress any criticism if that were confirmed.  Or if someone would simply nod an affirmation.  Or wink or say " Bingo," or maybe just smile in agreement.

I believe Long made a concerted effort to not hire anyone with ties to any of our big boosters.  When he was hired, he stepped into the tail end of the Nutt mess and was probably privy to all the deep details of how things got to that point.  Knowing how untenable that situation was at the end, he chose to completely avoid it by going outside of booster influence and hiring a guy that, on paper, the boosters would have to acknowledge was a good hire. 

JMO
"We spend two hundred and fifty billion dollars a year on defense and here we are....the fate of the planet in the hands of a bunch of retards I wouldn't trust with a potato gun!

Fort Dweller

Quote from: Fatty McGee on June 03, 2012, 09:43:59 pmRabid gay rampage?  That's quite a phrase.  I picture rundown neighborhoods being gentrified by angry, fit, childless, and well dressed mobs.
Quote from: sharpd1 on September 23, 2012, 08:33:21 pmSome of the people posting on here aren't good at brain stuff.
Quote from: PonderinHog on June 26, 2013, 11:15:49 pm
What if he chews a Poptart into the shape of two men holding hands - or worse?
Quote from: PharmacistHog on February 19, 2015, 10:09:07 am
Did you really click on the "report to moderator" button.  And not only that but do it on yourself? 

bphi11ips

Quote from: Chris McWilliams on December 10, 2013, 04:05:38 pm
I believe Long made a concerted effort to not hire anyone with ties to any of our big boosters.  When he was hired, he stepped into the tail end of the Nutt mess and was probably privy to all the deep details of how things got to that point.  Knowing how untenable that situation was at the end, he chose to completely avoid it by going outside of booster influence and hiring a guy that, on paper, the boosters would have to acknowledge was a good hire. 

JMO

Jeff Long is a politician.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Jeff Long has one priority.  Jeff Long.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Mulberry Squeezins

Quote from: bphi11ips on December 10, 2013, 09:07:46 pm
Jeff Long is a politician.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Jeff Long has one priority.  Jeff Long.

I sort of vacillate on this notion.  I do believe he was brought here to clean up the GOBN.  I think it's pretty obvious that he's doing it.  Right now, about the only thing I have against him is he fired BP.  I believe the BB hire was a great hire in that he pulled away a major conference championship winner from an institution who had been grooming him to be their head coach from the very moment they hired him.  Whether or not BB works out is still up in the air.

Some of the stuff that Long's done in seating has certainly rubbed a few of the blue head donors the wrong way.  Again, when you look at the way some of these high dollar seats were being grandfathered in, shaking things up as I see it was a sort of psuedofacto breaking up of how things worked under the GOBN. In the end, I'm not sure what some of you expect to accomplish with all this constant griping?  Our fanbase is starting to resemble a bunch of old women with sore teets.

 

Oklahawg

Quote from: wachhog on December 10, 2013, 01:54:45 pm
Someone in another thread speculated that "Gus was unhirable at Arkansas" because that would have given Armani Ronnie an "in" into the UA athletic department, inferring that he and his sheeple would then  become the new GOBN.  I can completely  understand that fear, and I would rather see us never have another winning season than to see that happen.  I suspect there are other Long skeptics besides me who would suppress any criticism if that were confirmed.  Or if someone would simply nod an affirmation.  Or wink or say " Bingo," or maybe just smile in agreement.


@$#%^&%@$&@%& ;) #%$^@#%&*^^&^

SHH!
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

Oklahawg

Quote from: Chris McWilliams on December 10, 2013, 04:05:38 pm
I believe Long made a concerted effort to not hire anyone with ties to any of our big boosters.  When he was hired, he stepped into the tail end of the Nutt mess and was probably privy to all the deep details of how things got to that point.  Knowing how untenable that situation was at the end, he chose to completely avoid it by going outside of booster influence and hiring a guy that, on paper, the boosters would have to acknowledge was a good hire. 

JMO

Good post.
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

bphi11ips

Quote from: Oklahawg on December 10, 2013, 09:21:57 pm
Good post.

You and McWilliams focus on the wrong audience.  Long cares nothing for "the boosters". 

Long will make the safe choice every time.  His concern is the national audience.  And everyone knows Arkansans are a bunch of neanderthals anyway.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

wachhog

Quote from: Oklahawg on December 10, 2013, 09:21:37 pm
@$#%^&%@$&@%& ;) #%$^@#%&*^^&^

SHH!
I caught that wink.  Thank you.  I still don't like that Bobby was fired, but no more Long bashing from me.

TOM "tbw1"

Quote from: Chris McWilliams on December 10, 2013, 04:05:38 pm
I believe Long made a concerted effort to not hire anyone with ties to any of our big boosters.  When he was hired, he stepped into the tail end of the Nutt mess and was probably privy to all the deep details of how things got to that point.  Knowing how untenable that situation was at the end, he chose to completely avoid it by going outside of booster influence and hiring a guy that, on paper, the boosters would have to acknowledge was a good hire. 

JMO

At the end of the Nutt fiasco, the University was warned by both the NCAA and Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools that there was a lack of administrative control over athletics and an inordinate amount of influence over day to day matters in the athletic department by the BOT and boosters.

Jeff Long was hired and given a mandate to correct those problems.  That, IMHO, explains hires free from that influence.
Well see, there's your problem. What you should be thinking is, what would Harry Rex do?

Fort Dweller

Quote from: TOM "tbw1" W. on December 10, 2013, 10:00:42 pm
At the end of the Nutt fiasco, the University was warned by both the NCAA and Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools that there was a lack of administrative control over athletics and an inordinate amount of influence over day to day matters in the athletic department by the BOT and boosters.

Jeff Long was hired and given a mandate to correct those problems.  That, IMHO, explains hires free from that influence.

And here is what BP was getting at
Quote from: Fatty McGee on June 03, 2012, 09:43:59 pmRabid gay rampage?  That's quite a phrase.  I picture rundown neighborhoods being gentrified by angry, fit, childless, and well dressed mobs.
Quote from: sharpd1 on September 23, 2012, 08:33:21 pmSome of the people posting on here aren't good at brain stuff.
Quote from: PonderinHog on June 26, 2013, 11:15:49 pm
What if he chews a Poptart into the shape of two men holding hands - or worse?
Quote from: PharmacistHog on February 19, 2015, 10:09:07 am
Did you really click on the "report to moderator" button.  And not only that but do it on yourself? 

Fatty McGee

Quote from: bphi11ips on December 10, 2013, 09:46:46 pm
You and McWilliams focus on the wrong audience.  Long cares nothing for "the boosters". 

Long will make the safe choice every time.  His concern is the national audience.  And everyone knows Arkansans are a bunch of neanderthals anyway.

For a guy who cares nothing about the boosters, he sure does raise a lot of money from them.  Maybe rich people like being ignored and that's the way to get more money out of them. 
Bandit: Hey wait a minute, wait a minute. Why do you want that beer so bad?
Little Enos: Cause he's thirsty, dummy!

blunts4mallett

Thanks for the great thread. As a pretty young Hog fan, I have gained some insight into some of the dramatics that have seemed to haunt our program over the years. As a student who was enrolled during the Petrino Era, I was lucky to be at every home game, The Sugar Bowl, and Cotton Bowl. I was pissed when he was fired. It still PISSES me off to be honest. Integrity and what not, sure. #NeverYield!!! So here's what I've gathered:

1. Long was brought in to break up the GOBN that was running the program into the ground, i.e. keeping Nutt around, etc.

2. Long Hires Petrino. Petrino is not much of a politician. Like Long, Petrino doesn't kiss up or bow down to the Arkansas Media "Kingpin" and GOBN, who to some degree still run things. Not to mention the rest of the country hates Petrino. But the man can win.

3. Petrino brings the Hogs into the national limelight. Long is a hero at this point.

4. Petrino - to put it lightly - "screws the pooch". In turn, he becomes the sacrificial lamb in which Long must bring the axe to to save face. To say Long had no previous knowledge of Petrino's relationship with Dorrell, in my opinion, is ignorant. He'd have to have known. Either that, or he's just stupid, which we all know isn't the case.

5. Now it's out in the open. It's National Media, GOBN, Arkansas Media, Blue Blood Booster open season on Petrino - Jeff Long's "homerun" poster child. Long realizes this and does the smart thing to save HIS job, and save HIS legacy. So he cuts ties with Petrino in the name of "integrity".

I for one do not think his hire of CBB was a bad move. I believe in CBB and think his approach to the game is great for our team. But it takes time to see how things will shake out. My guess is Long will be "long gone" before we find out.

Bottom Line: I do not think Jeff Long is the integrity-driven saint some of you seem to make him out to be. I think he's just a regular bloke, like you and I, who was brought in to shift power away from a GOBN that was slowly destroying Arkansas Football. He made a great hire in Petrino, and because of Petrino's decisions regarding motorcycles and women, Long had to sacrifice him for his own sake. Just my two cents.

Sound about right?

TOM "tbw1"

Blunt, why do you not think Coach Petrino left Long any choice.  He lied to Long, he lied to the press, he lied to the fans.  He did not tell the truth until there was a state police report.

A disciplinarian like Petrino has to have the trust of his players.  He lost that.  Why are you not mad at him rather than Jeff Long?
Well see, there's your problem. What you should be thinking is, what would Harry Rex do?

TOM "tbw1"

Well see, there's your problem. What you should be thinking is, what would Harry Rex do?

gchamblee

Quote from: UA1985 on December 08, 2013, 07:17:31 pm
Mixed bag:
(1) Long was right to fire Petrino (had no choice since Petrino abused his power to line up a promotion for his mistress).

(2) Long was grossly negligent in hiring John L. for a one-year stint (this equates to killing recruiting because 4 and 5 star kids don't routinely sign with lame duck 70-year-old coaches)

(3) Long was right to hire Bielema. He is smart enough to know that he had a free pass this season to lose as many games as he wants to lose. He will recruit better than Nutt or Petrino and he is a proven winner in a conference where he never had the best talent.

(4) It appears Long is doing a good job raising money, which (if true) is a huge plus.

Overall grade for Long thus far: "B." He would get an "A" if he hadn't lost his mind in 2012 when he hired a lame duck, bankrupt, senile coach, which absolutely killed recruiting.

This is actually a pretty good post.

 

gchamblee

Quote from: WilsonHog on December 08, 2013, 07:22:47 pm
The paradigm has shifted.

There was a time that athletic departments were run by ex-coaches. Those ex-coaches had men in their circle of influence, men who gave large amounts of money to help fund the programs. In exchange for those contributions, the power brokers wanted more than good seats - they wanted influence. They wanted a seat at the table, and they got it.

That landscape started changing, not ironically, at Vanderbilt. Perhaps due to all of the negative publicity from universities going through scandal after scandal, university presidents started taking a greater interest in what happened on the athletic side of campus. This was also about the same time that rivers of money began flowing through college football. It started at UA with John White, who was not the athletic-friendly chancellor that his predecessor, Dan Ferritor, was. JFB was eased out the door and an AD was hired who better fit the new profile of a CEO-type athletic director. The men who formed JFB's inner circle - some called them the Good Ol' Boy Network - were on the outside looking in. Long-time department employees with Arkansas ties were purged in favor of guys who were all-business and had no connection to anyone.

Within that context, Jeff Long is exactly what his direct supervisors want - a front-man for the athletic department who says and does the right things, who can deliver a message that best represents the UA, and who can keep the outside politicos at bay.

This also is an excellent post. +1

blunts4mallett

Quote from: TOM "tbw1" W. on December 11, 2013, 12:27:10 am
Blunt, why do you not think Coach Petrino left Long any choice.  He lied to Long, he lied to the press, he lied to the fans.  He did not tell the truth until there was a state police report.

A disciplinarian like Petrino has to have the trust of his players.  He lost that.  Why are you not mad at him rather than Jeff Long?

I don't think Long had a choice once the media got a hold of the story and it blew up in his face. But I do think Long had to have known about this before the accident. And maybe, he should have handled it better before, you know, like under the table. The accident is what brought it all to public light. I'm not angry at Long. I'm just annoyed at his "integrity" campaign he keeps "trying to sell", since apparently that's all we have. I am certainly angry at Petrino for jeopardizing the program. But I do think there were preventative measures that could taken place, by Long, to make sure that this didn't happen. Preventative measures a good manager would have taken that you and I would have not known about. But in the end, it is Petrino's decision making. Just sayin.

TOM "tbw1"

What measures would have worked?  He walked away from 18 million dollars.  Thanks again for the reply.
Well see, there's your problem. What you should be thinking is, what would Harry Rex do?

urkillnmesmalls

Quote from: blunts4mallett on December 11, 2013, 12:46:10 am
I don't think Long had a choice once the media got a hold of the story and it blew up in his face. But I do think Long had to have known about this before the accident. And maybe, he should have handled it better before, you know, like under the table. The accident is what brought it all to public light. I'm not angry at Long. I'm just annoyed at his "integrity" campaign he keeps "trying to sell", since apparently that's all we have. I am certainly angry at Petrino for jeopardizing the program. But I do think there were preventative measures that could taken place, by Long, to make sure that this didn't happen. Preventative measures a good manager would have taken that you and I would have not known about. But in the end, it is Petrino's decision making. Just sayin.

If someone comes forward with knowledge that JL was acutely aware of the affair long before he approved and fast tracked the hire of JD, then his stance on integrity would seem to take a pretty big hit.  With how common the knowledge of that affair seems to have been, it is odd that JL wouldn't have been aware of it.  I guess if JL wasn't present on those trips, and he hadn't seen anything fishy, it would have taken someone coming directly to him to make him aware of it. 

If he knew about it, it just seems like someone would have come forward to make that known by now.  Lord knows there are enough people on here who hate him that I'm sure there are a few close to the program who feel similar, and would love to ding his credibility and integrity stance. 

To me...that's in the past.  I'm evaluating him based on how CBB is doing in years three and four.  If he stinks it up, then I want Long gone.  (Although I predict that may happen before that point...with him leaving for another position) 
I've never wanted a Hog coach to be successful more than I do for Pittman.  He's one of the good guys.

urkillnmesmalls

Quote from: TOM "tbw1" W. on December 11, 2013, 12:54:52 am
What measures would have worked?  He walked away from 18 million dollars.  Thanks again for the reply.

No measures were going to repair what was lost.  Trust.  It takes a long time to build it, and it can take seconds to tear it down. 

If I'm guessing, and I am, blunts seems to be suggesting that if Long had known about it well ahead of time, he could have discreetly moved JD somewhere else, informed BP about the provisions for conduct in his contract, and tried to discourage the affair.  Now...would that have worked, when you're talking about BP's ego?  I doubt it. 

What I would like to know, is exactly where Mike Irwin heard that BP told JL that he was being asked to be a Monk, and wouldn't adhere to the stipulations given in order for him to remain as a head coach.  That sounds exactly like what BP would have said, and as you suggested, if he thought he had a leg to stand on, he wouldn't have left without trying to get his hands on that $18M. 
I've never wanted a Hog coach to be successful more than I do for Pittman.  He's one of the good guys.

blunts4mallett

From a managerial standpoint, Maybe Jeff could have acknowledged and spoken with Petrino about what was going on. I'd at least approach him about it before bringing it to higher attention or blowing it up. My guess is that he probably already did that. But you know what I mean. Maybe he could have dis-approved the hiring of Dorrell. I'd had try to cover it up. But maybe I'm just a bad person, IDK. There are all sorts of situations in which Long could have approached the situation even before the accident happen - given he knew about it beforehand. And I really have a hard time believing he didn't. IMO Long not knowing about the Dorrell situation is like Ken Lay not knowing what Jeff Skilling was up to at Enron before it all was exposed. He knew. And so did Long. It was Long's duty as a director, essentially manager, to stop this from snowballing. But just to be clear, I'm not excusing Petrino for his actions. I just think Jeff could have handled the situation much better.

blunts4mallett

Quote from: urkillnmesmalls on December 11, 2013, 01:13:30 am
No measures were going to repair what was lost.  Trust.  It takes a long time to build it, and it can take seconds to tear it down. 

If I'm guessing, and I am, blunts seems to be suggesting that if Long had known about it well ahead of time, he could have discreetly moved JD somewhere else, informed BP about the provisions for conduct in his contract, and tried to discourage the affair.  Now...would that have worked, when you're talking about BP's ego?  I doubt it. 

What I would like to know, is exactly where Mike Irwin heard that BP told JL that he was being asked to be a Monk, and wouldn't adhere to the stipulations given in order for him to remain as a head coach.  That sounds exactly like what BP would have said, and as you suggested, if he thought he had a leg to stand on, he wouldn't have left without trying to get his hands on that $18M.

Yep. Would not be surprised one bit

Fatty McGee

Quote from: blunts4mallett on December 11, 2013, 01:15:51 am
From a managerial standpoint, Maybe Jeff could have acknowledged and spoken with Petrino about what was going on. I'd at least approach him about it before bringing it to higher attention or blowing it up. My guess is that he probably already did that. But you know what I mean. Maybe he could have dis-approved the hiring of Dorrell. I'd had try to cover it up. But maybe I'm just a bad person, IDK. There are all sorts of situations in which Long could have approached the situation even before the accident happen - given he knew about it beforehand. And I really have a hard time believing he didn't. IMO Long not knowing about the Dorrell situation is like Ken Lay not knowing what Jeff Skilling was up to at Enron before it all was exposed. He knew. And so did Long. It was Long's duty as a director, essentially manager, to stop this from snowballing. But just to be clear, I'm not excusing Petrino for his actions. I just think Jeff could have handled the situation much better.

I'm not sure why you have a hard time believing he didn't. Most people try and cover their affairs. Her fiancée didn't know about it. Petrino would likely have been extra careful in Long's presence.  And in the absence of hard evidence, what football team underling was going to go to his boss's boss and accuse him of it? 

Your Lay/Skilling analogy falls flat because that was about the actual business of the company. If Petrino were accused of massive recruiting violations, then it would be a better comparison.
Bandit: Hey wait a minute, wait a minute. Why do you want that beer so bad?
Little Enos: Cause he's thirsty, dummy!

Chief Mac

Quote from: bphi11ips on December 10, 2013, 09:07:46 pm
Jeff Long is a politician.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Jeff Long has one priority.  Jeff Long.

while I think he is, wouldn't a savvy politician hire a coach that is connected with a big time booster to curry favor with said booster? 

Addendum....I see where you think Long's focus is on national accocolades for himself rather than support of boosters, which I don't doubt that may be part of his reasoning, he can't keep making these "moves" that are applauded by national people if he doesn't have a job.  Alienate the boosters as a whole and watch how fast they put aside their differences to find themselves a new AD.
"We spend two hundred and fifty billion dollars a year on defense and here we are....the fate of the planet in the hands of a bunch of retards I wouldn't trust with a potato gun!

Hoggish1

Quote from: UA1985 on December 08, 2013, 07:17:31 pm
Mixed bag:
(1) Long was right to fire Petrino (had no choice since Petrino abused his power to line up a promotion for his mistress).

(2) Long was grossly negligent in hiring John L. for a one-year stint (this equates to killing recruiting because 4 and 5 star kids don't routinely sign with lame duck 70-year-old coaches)

(3) Long was right to hire Bielema. He is smart enough to know that he had a free pass this season to lose as many games as he wants to lose. He will recruit better than Nutt or Petrino and he is a proven winner in a conference where he never had the best talent.

(4) It appears Long is doing a good job raising money, which (if true) is a huge plus.

Overall grade for Long thus far: "B." He would get an "A" if he hadn't lost his mind in 2012 when he hired a lame duck, bankrupt, senile coach, which absolutely killed recruiting.

1.  Loved BP until he screwed himself, his future and the Hogs—one of the saddest episodes in Hog coaching history that I know about.  Hated to see a guy go that could win.
But, I was never comfortable with his mouth and demeanor. He also cared nothing for D football, so in retrospect, it should work out in the end, to have a more rounded HC who has a great staff that can recruit.

2.He wasn't negligent, he just didn't have any balls.  He was afraid there would be a groundswell for any assistant, he elevated to HC, that might have a great season—something most people thought we would have regardless of the coach.

Agree with 3, 4

Hoggish1

Quote from: moses_007 on December 08, 2013, 08:43:41 pm
Other than Petrino, Mr. Jeff Long has made miserable coaching choices. 

That would be true, except most believe BP was forced on Long (by some well healed GOBs and BP's agent?) after he kept attempting to look at losers (Bowden, Grobe, etc.).

Long did what boosters wanted when he hired Anderson and he made a good choice in hiring CBB after Smiley, with no place but up to go, which may have been something in the works for longer than we'll ever know...

Hogs-n-Roses

Back to the first couple of pages. For you guys who understand hirings and firings. Does the Head coach hire or fire staff. In this case the person assigned to travel with the HC? Technically, who hired Jessica? Who interviewed,reviewed...her and who suspended/fired her?

Hogblog


hog911

Quote from: TOM "tbw1" W. on December 08, 2013, 06:01:24 pm
First, please consider the difference between cognitive intelligence and emotional intelligence:

Being effective both alone and as a team player vs. Only effective when working alone
Being able to manage your own emotions vs. Having temper tantrums, sulking or withdrawing
Being able to empathize with others and knowing where they're coming from vs. Not being able to grasp the feelings of others and understand how the emotions are affecting the situation
[/b]
Using an emotional appeal to convince someone of somethingv. Using an intellectual appeal to convince someone of something
Knowing that motivation is a feeling word v. Thinking that motivation is a thinking word.

As Jack Webb would say just the facts.

Question A:  Many Arkansas fans are angry because he fired Bobby Petrino, others because he is not from Arkansas.  Yet he seems to have the support of the Chancellor, the President and BOT while also having the respect of his peers.  Why?

PLEASE LIST FACTS AND NOT OPINION

Question B;  Please list a program that suffered the same problems as Arkansas and then list facts as to how that program faced them.  Please limit yourself to teams that were having spring practice when the coach was fired.

You want facts! Here we go,our football program just finished 0-8 in the SEC and our recruiting class was ho hum at best and we have a coach who wants to play 3 star players power football against 5 star teams. His only chance of winning is having a slew of fifth years seniors, which we can expect a lot of 5-7 to 7-5 seasons, yah!  Also, we have an AD who is more concerned with getting his name around the collegiate world by selling his claims of  integrity, but doesn't refuse a raise when both football and basketball ticket sales are majorly suffering! Oh yeah, and we trade in southern based Coke for northern based Pepsi!

HardCore

Quote from: hog911 on February 08, 2014, 08:03:35 pm


You want facts! Here we go, our football program just finished 0-8 in the SEC and our recruiting class was ho hum at best and we have a coach who wants to play 3 star players power football against 5 star teams.

Unfortunate as it is, that pretty much sums it up.
Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; lick it once and you'll suck forever....Brian Wilson (Beach Boys)

LSUFan

Quote from: TOM "tbw1" W. on December 11, 2013, 12:27:10 am
Blunt, why do you not think Coach Petrino left Long any choice.  He lied to Long, he lied to the press, he lied to the fans.  He did not tell the truth until there was a state police report.

A disciplinarian like Petrino has to have the trust of his players.  He lost that.  Why are you not mad at him rather than Jeff Long?
His players probably knew what was going on and were high fiving him.

So what?

The entire State voted for Clinton both elections.

End the Soap Opera.

I ain't saying you babysitting, but my kids are all over your couch.

Quote from: JIMMY BOARFFETT on August 17, 2015, 02:46:52 pm
Sometimes, I think you're a wine-o who found a laptop in a dumpster.