Kid comes in with big expectations. Doesn't pan out. Sound familiar?

[FineAsSwine]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15712769/mississippi-state-malik-newman-withdraw-draft-transfer

[Hawg Red]

Some kids can't handle playing like freshmen their freshman year.

[FineAsSwine]

Some kids can't handle playing like freshmen their freshman year.

True but he questions how he is being used and his role on the team as well. Seems like he thinks Howland doesn't know what he's doing. Just think that kids want everything so fast these days and if it doesn't happen the way they want and as easily as they want, they are ready to bounce.

[poloprince]

True but he questions how he is being used and his role on the team as well. Seems like he thinks Howland doesn't know what he's doing. Just think that kids want everything so fast these days and if it doesn't happen the way they want and as easily as they want, they are ready to bounce.

I know that Howland can coach and he should've come to Arkansas

[Kevin]

nobody has any patience anymore

[hoglady]

True but he questions how he is being used and his role on the team as well. Seems like he thinks Howland doesn't know what he's doing. Just think that kids want everything so fast these days and if it doesn't happen the way they want and as easily as they want, they are ready to bounce.

A snot-nosed freshman is questioning whether a coach that took 3 teams to the final four, won the Pac tourney 2 times and Pac Championship 4 times knows what he's doing? Sounds like Newman may be one of those kids that doesn't take coaching very well. I'm sure it never dawned on him that Howland may be trying to make him improve his weaknesses to better prepare for the next level.

[HoopS]

Another freshman who knows more than a seasoned coach.

[BigSexyHog]

Another freshman who knows more than a seasoned coach.

No different then 85% of the people on this board.  They're all experts.

[Hawg Red]

No different then 85% of the people on this board.  They're all experts.

Fair point.

[HoopS]

No different then 85% of the people on this board.  They're all experts.

no doubt. They're not only strategically better than MA, they understand how to recruit better and would work circles around his assistants. If they were AD, they'd hire them and lock them in right now. And if they were to flame out, they'd already have that written into the contract and come out smelling like a rose. We'd play the perfect schedule and never lose a game. Turnovers would be a thing of the past and free throw shooting would be impeccable. Handles? We'd have 'em. In spades. No sub 50% 3 point shooters anymore. We'd have 6'8" PG's and twin towers in the middle. If only.

[FineAsSwine]

A snot-nosed freshman is questioning whether a coach that took 3 teams to the final four, won the Pac tourney 2 times and Pac Championship 4 times knows what he's doing? Sounds like Newman may be one of those kids that doesn't take coaching very well. I'm sure it never dawned on him that Howland may be trying to make him improve his weaknesses to better prepare for the next level.

Weaknesses, what weaknesses? He probably thought he was NBA ready right out of high school and he already decided his position too by the way. No need to let the coaches decide you might be better at a different spot. Probably feels entitled to choose his role on the team just like the fat, slow peewee footballer who's daddy thinks he should be a quarterback instead of lineman.

Nah, in his mind, Howland is holding him back.

[Hawg Red]

To be fair, some articles/postings have come out since Newman's decision and potential decision to transfer have become public that might favor his line of thinking in regard to his concern over his role and how he's been used. Some national analysts say he excels in the pick-and-roll but that State ranked near the bottom of D1 last season in pick-and-roll offense. On the other hand, the theory seems to be that it was due to a lack of talent and they have a top 10 recruiting class coming in. Also, Ben Howland has a track record of seeing players take huge jumps from freshman to sophomore year. But, also, he's been known to clash with high-profile recruits.

This does not see him to be an uncomplicated decision for Newman. Transferring doesn't make much sense if your goal is to get to the NBA ASAP. He could still withdraw from the draft and play the D-League and then be auto-eligible next year. This will be interesting.

[Deep Shoat]

no doubt. They're not only strategically better than MA, they understand how to recruit better and would work circles around his assistants. If they were AD, they'd hire them and lock them in right now. And if they were to flame out, they'd already have that written into the contract and come out smelling like a rose. We'd play the perfect schedule and never lose a game. Turnovers would be a thing of the past and free throw shooting would be impeccable. Handles? We'd have 'em. In spades. No sub 50% 3 point shooters anymore. We'd have 6'8" PG's and twin towers in the middle. If only.

I'm not sure many here think they know more than CMA.  OTOH, many think there are plenty of other coaches who do.

I don't need to understand every nuance of your job to know if you suck at it.

[HogBreath]

nobody has any patience anymore

CMA's fans seem to have a whole heckuva lot of patience.

[HoopS]

I'm not sure many here think they know more than CMA.  OTOH, many think there are plenty of other coaches who do.

I don't need to understand every nuance of your job to know if you suck at it.

no question there are plenty of better coaches. But he doesn't suck at his job. There's better. Sure. But saying he sucks at his job is way overstating it.

CMA's fans seem to have a whole heckuva lot of patience.

not the ones I know. He needs to get the Hogs to the dance this season or he loses a lot of support.

[azhog10]

CMA's fans seem to have a whole heckuva lot of patience.

I wouldn't say the patience is on CMA. I think we all agree, or most, that if he isn't in the NCAAT then he should be gone. I'm not sure if an NIT even makes me change tune. But I think the difference in MOST, not all, of the fanbase is our perception of the program when Mike took over. Some think it wasn't that bad, others may believe it was worse than it really was. I imagine things may have been somewhere in between but I think that is where a lot of us differ. Also, as it pertains to last offseason, some believe CMA should be absolutely held accountable and if his kids do stupid things he and the result of that ends up with a .500 season then he should go. Others believe that kids will be kids and it's not all on the coach. Yes results will change because of those things but did he make the best of what he had?

To me those are the things we all feel differently on, and that may be perceived as though we have a lot of patience. I believe that it's not patience it's perception of things and while nothing is avoidable there is still only so much one person can do.

[hawginbigd1]

no doubt. They're not only strategically better than MA, they understand how to recruit better and would work circles around his assistants. If they were AD, they'd hire them and lock them in right now. And if they were to flame out, they'd already have that written into the contract and come out smelling like a rose. We'd play the perfect schedule and never lose a game. Turnovers would be a thing of the past and free throw shooting would be impeccable. Handles? We'd have 'em. In spades. No sub 50% 3 point shooters anymore. We'd have 6'8" PG's and twin towers in the middle. If only.

Only licensed plumbers can unclog a drain, no doubt there is no way an average lay person could understand the concepts of how to do anything they haven't dedicated their entire life to, or received some level of professional training.

[rude1]

Man I really feel for todays coaches in having to deal with these kids today. Seems every kid, even a kid recruited be a role player, believe college is just a one year stop on his way to the "league".  These kids no longer care about  team success or focusing on just becoming better, they have already sized up where they believe they need to play to get to the "league" and it doesn't matter if their skill set matches it or not. They come in and don't set the world on fire and the coach doesn't hand the team over to them so they can get their "numbers" to impress the scouts and they are looking for the exits quickly.

[HoopS]

Yeah I was joking. There was a day you could yuck it up around here and enjoy making light of things.

[HogBreath]

not the ones I know. He needs to get the Hogs to the dance this season or he loses a lot of support.

Is this coming season really the be all/end all?   It takes time, usually about a season, for jucos to get fully acclimated, wouldn't the year after next be better?

And you're not even a CMA fan anyways, you wanted Gregg Marshall for crying out loud.

[Jonteviosk]

To be fair, some articles/postings have come out since Newman's decision and potential decision to transfer have become public that might favor his line of thinking in regard to his concern over his role and how he's been used. Some national analysts say he excels in the pick-and-roll but that State ranked near the bottom of D1 last season in pick-and-roll offense. On the other hand, the theory seems to be that it was due to a lack of talent and they have a top 10 recruiting class coming in. Also, Ben Howland has a track record of seeing players take huge jumps from freshman to sophomore year. But, also, he's been known to clash with high-profile recruits.

This does not see him to be an uncomplicated decision for Newman. Transferring doesn't make much sense if your goal is to get to the NBA ASAP. He could still withdraw from the draft and play the D-League and then be auto-eligible next year. This will be interesting.

This scrub ass kid will never make it in the NBA if he wont take coaching from someone like Howland then he will never make it in the league...Sounds very similar to Jimmy Whitt.

[ShadowHawg]

This scrub ass kid will never make it in the NBA if he wont take coaching from someone like Howland then he will never make it in the league...Sounds very similar to Jimmy Whitt.

Ben Howland has only ever had ONE team that was anything. He rode that team to 3 Final Fours. The rest of his career doesn't even contain an Elite Eight appearance.

[wheelspigharvey]

Ben Howland has only ever had ONE team that was anything. He rode that team to 3 Final Fours. The rest of his career doesn't even contain an Elite Eight appearance.

You can give props to other coaches while remaining loyal to your own team. Cal, Pearl, Martin, Barnes, Johnson, Kennedy, all good to great coaches whose programs I hate.

[ShadowHawg]

You can give props to other coaches while remaining loyal to your own team. Cal, Pearl, Martin, Barnes, Johnson, Kennedy, all good to great coaches whose programs I hate.

Howland has had one group of guys. That's it. Guy Lewis had TWO sets of teams that made it to 3 straight Final Fours for a comparison.

It's hardly sour grapes to point out that Howland has never made an elite eight without that group of guys when folks are acting like he is currently a top tier coach.

He has work to do to be considered in that strata. It's been 9 years.

[HawgHeadCheese]

no doubt. They're not only strategically better than MA, they understand how to recruit better and would work circles around his assistants. If they were AD, they'd hire them and lock them in right now. And if they were to flame out, they'd already have that written into the contract and come out smelling like a rose. We'd play the perfect schedule and never lose a game. Turnovers would be a thing of the past and free throw shooting would be impeccable. Handles? We'd have 'em. In spades. No sub 50% 3 point shooters anymore. We'd have 6'8" PG's and twin towers in the middle. If only.

LMAO this was hilarious

[HoopS]

Is this coming season really the be all/end all?   It takes time, usually about a season, for jucos to get fully acclimated, wouldn't the year after next be better?

And you're not even a CMA fan anyways, you wanted Gregg Marshall for crying out loud.

you are correct and I would still like to have Marshall. I just think he's a good coach but apparently he rubs some the wrong way.

I understand about JUCO's and agree that you can't expect a ton this first season, usually. I think we are getting really good ones and adding them to a good enough situation that there's a chance they can come along at a pace that would be good enough for us to have a really good season. But it's win now mode. We may drop some early on that we will look back and wish we had back, but by conference play they gotta be clicking full-boar.

I am supportive of Mike. I accepted him even though he wasn't my first choice and I could see things in his history I liked. And although you can't tell by many comments, he won the most games in a season here since the mid-90's so to act like he has failed and should be fired is just silly. Only in a few folk's mind should the guy be gone. Now if you solely judge on tournament success, you can make that argument. I still think in time that that argument will end up looking premature as well. We are about to turn the corner. Mark my words and use them against me if we don't.

[FineAsSwine]

I understand about JUCO's and agree that you can't expect a ton this first season, usually. I think we are getting really good ones and adding them to a good enough situation that there's a chance they can come along at a pace that would be good enough for us to have a really good season. But it's win now mode. We may drop some early on that we will look back and wish we had back, but by conference play they gotta be clicking full-boar.

if not then we will have a fight on our hands here in Jumpball that rivals the Boer Wars. 

[HoopS]

if not then we will have a fight on our hands here in Jumpball that rivals the Boer Wars. 

haha

[Deep Shoat]

Yeah I was joking. There was a day you could yuck it up around here and enjoy making light of things.

That was before everyone became a douchebag...

[HoopS]

That was before everyone became a douchebag...

things have changed.

[FineAsSwine]

Courtney Cronin on Newman: Transfer is a real possibility but is my no means a done deal. He needs to step back, take his time and soul search.


Had not considered potential academic eligibility issue due to packing it in to prep for the combine and workouts.

So, if not for the potential academic eligibility issues, he would have gone elsewhere? Seems pretty self-serving if you ask me. Now the question should be, does Howland even want him back?

[Hawg Red]

So, if not for the potential academic eligibility issues, he would have gone elsewhere? Seems pretty self-serving if you ask me. Now the question should be, does Howland even want him back?

Absolutely.

[azhog10]

So, if not for the potential academic eligibility issues, he would have gone elsewhere? Seems pretty self-serving if you ask me. Now the question should be, does Howland even want him back?

Not just that, but can he correct the elgibility issues? Will transferring and taking a year off to get his academics in order be a possibility or going JUCO?

[FineAsSwine]

Absolutely.

Judgment call there. Kid could be locker room poison if things don't go his way. Sometimes, less is more.

[FineAsSwine]

Not just that, but can he correct the elgibility issues? Will transferring and taking a year off to get his academics in order be a possibility or going JUCO?

He was so sure he was going to get drafted that he probably only went to class because he had to. Now, he has to pretend interest in school again so that he can resume his quest to get in the league.

If he doesn't make headway and get into the draft next year, then in his mind it will be Howland's fault all over again.

[JackJohnson]

Howland has more All Stars in the NBA the past few years (as well as NBA players) then we have basically had in our history.  The man can recruit and coach.

I don't really give two flips about what Newman does with his future so long as it isn't playing against us for MSU next year or years to come as their program is MUCH weaker without him

[FineAsSwine]

Seeing more and more kids with this type of attitude. Guess this has become the new reality.

Commit. See how it goes. If not to the kids liking, then he'll hit the door and trash the staff, the system, player development, etc., on the way out. Never, ever take a look in the mirror.

[azhog10]

Seeing more and more kids with this type of attitude. Guess this has become the new reality.

Commit. See how it goes. If not to the kids liking, then he'll hit the door and trash the staff, the system, player development, etc., on the way out. Never, ever take a look in the mirror.

Unfortunately many are deciding to use this "rule" to their benefit, or perceived benefit. I think if coaches really didn't like it, they would push for a rule change to limit transfers. But coaches hate it when their players leave, but love it when they can pick up a kid that they think will help them right now, or in the future.

I'm not sure what could be done. Simple fact is with the amount of coaching turnover I also don't think it's fair to hold kids hostage but coaches can move about as they please. Something needs to be done but I'm not sure what the answer is.

[hoglady]

Ben Howland has only ever had ONE team that was anything. He rode that team to 3 Final Fours. The rest of his career doesn't even contain an Elite Eight appearance.

But the rest of his career includes pretty much a total rebuild at Pittsburgh / winning the Big East 2 years in a row and taking that team to the Sweet 16.
Heck, UCLA won the Pac the year he was let go - (first round NCAA loss did him in)
He's been coach of the year in the Big East, Pac 12 and Big Sky - plus National Coach of the Year.
I would say he knows what he's doing.

[lefty08]

But the rest of his career includes pretty much a total rebuild at Pittsburgh / winning the Big East 2 years in a row and taking that team to the Sweet 16.
Heck, UCLA won the Pac the year he was let go - (first round NCAA loss did him in)
He's been coach of the year in the Big East, Pac 12 and Big Sky - plus National Coach of the Year.
I would say he knows what he's doing.

I agree with this and also add if anyone here actually watched Newman play?  There is no way in hell this kid is ready to go pro. Too many people enable the entitled attitudes of kids these days, and it not just in sports.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

A lot of talk about the kid with no mention of the parents.  Kid's just don't turn out this way.  It's the parenting and/or lack thereof.  I was in Starkville when his father played there.  My wife is from Horatio Webster's home town.  He was a local star that did alright in college but I don't think he made much of anything playing professionally.  There could be a bit of helicoptering and gravy training going on here.

[Hawg Red]

Newman is transferring, BTW.

[azhog10]

Newman is transferring, BTW.

Never expected him back after everything went the way it did leading up to, and ending of the draft combine.

[FineAsSwine]

One more swipe at Howland on the way out door by the Newman camp. Now Howland can't be trusted? Man these kids never take the blame. Not even part of it.


"I think it was a trust issue. I don't think that Malik trusted Ben. Not saying he's a bad coach or anything to that nature. We'd be crazy to say that he's a terrible coach," Webster said. "But he wasn't the coach for Malik. I don't think Ben trusted Malik so I think the feeling was mutual. I don't think they trusted each other."

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/malik-newman-transfer-mississippi-state-nba-draft-ben-howland-recruiting/1l5bql1em7w6l1xovgxadzzymr

[Pork Twain]

Not sure why many act like this is something new, it is not.  Those same people like to try and compare every MA situation to every other situation out there, they shouldn't.

[FineAsSwine]

Not sure why many act like this is something new, it is not.  Those same people like to try and compare every MA situation to every other situation out there, they shouldn't.

This isn't about CMA, it's about the entitled attitude of these kids nowadays. Something is different about todays athlete. No one wants to wait their turn or face competition to earn a position. It has become more exacerbated in the past few years, so it is a NEW thing. Here is a partial quote from the article linked below:

Research by the NCAA shows that the number of transfers from two-year/junior college schools into Division I has remained steady over the last 10 years or so, hovering between roughly 15 percent and 17 percent of all Division I players.

The real movement, though, is within Division I.

According to STATS, the number of transfers from one Division I school to another jumped from 259 to 325 from 2012-13 to 2013-14 alone. That number could go much higher once this year's transfers are tallied.

"A lot of times kids aren't transferring or leaving because of the environment they're in," Florida coach Billy Donovan said. "It generally comes down to one thing, and a lot of times it's playing time. Kids now want that instantaneous success."

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/04/18/transfer-numbers-way-up-in-d-college-basketball-as-players-seek-instantaneous.html

[Pork Twain]

This isn't about CMA, it's about the entitled attitude of these kids nowadays. Something is different about todays athlete. No one wants to wait their turn or face competition to earn a position. It has become more exacerbated in the past few years, so it is a NEW thing. Here is a partial quote from the article linked below:

Research by the NCAA shows that the number of transfers from two-year/junior college schools into Division I has remained steady over the last 10 years or so, hovering between roughly 15 percent and 17 percent of all Division I players.

The real movement, though, is within Division I.

According to STATS, the number of transfers from one Division I school to another jumped from 259 to 325 from 2012-13 to 2013-14 alone. That number could go much higher once this year's transfers are tallied.

"A lot of times kids aren't transferring or leaving because of the environment they're in," Florida coach Billy Donovan said. "It generally comes down to one thing, and a lot of times it's playing time. Kids now want that instantaneous success."

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/04/18/transfer-numbers-way-up-in-d-college-basketball-as-players-seek-instantaneous.html

It is still nothing new, as I said.  We are just seeing more of it now because it is easier.

[FineAsSwine]

It is still nothing new, as I said.  We are just seeing more of it now because it is easier.

"There is nothing new under the sun" The Preacher (Ecclesiastes)

Kids have been transferring for years and it isn't any easier than it has been. Significantly higher numbers of kids are availing themselves of this option, that's what's new.

[azhog10]

"There is nothing new under the sun" The Preacher (Ecclesiastes)

Kids have been transferring for years and it isn't any easier than it has been. Significantly higher numbers of kids are availing themselves of this option, that's what's new.

Yes and no. It's easier for graduates as that rule is fairly new. However the NCAA has been a lot harder on the hardship waiver involving sick family members or other things. That said more kids are "okay" with sitting a year out if they think they are going to see immediate playing time once elgible to play. There is no reason for players to honor their scholarship and work their tails off to get better. That said, coaches bounce around just as much as some players so not sure who to be mad at.

[Pork Twain]

Yes and no. It's easier for graduates as that rule is fairly new. However the NCAA has been a lot harder on the hardship waiver involving sick family members or other things. That said more kids are "okay" with sitting a year out if they think they are going to see immediate playing time once elgible to play. There is no reason for players to honor their scholarship and work their tails off to get better. That said, coaches bounce around just as much as some players so not sure who to be mad at.

I have never really gotten this reasoning.  No matter where they go, if they want to make it deep into March or the NBA, they are going to have to work hard no matter where they play.