What Does The Recent Success Of A-State Football Say About Arkansas' In-State Recruiting?

[TeedupHigh]

You Guys keep that Indian talent and I will take the kids CBB and staff are bringing in!  How many Freshmen All American does the Indians have? Had? Will EVER have?  South ARKANSAS may have some players but nobody else is signing them either.  Didn't Pine Bluff have a stud qb a year or so ago that this board was saying he should be a HOG? Who is he playing for?  Got to be able to get in school to play!

[Seminole Indian]

Yep, Arkansas isn't offering those kids.

ASU has really not had any  luck at all signing players with offers from the Razorbacks in recent years. Were much more successful years ago when they played a lower level.

Might be that they play in the SEC, or the scholarship limitations, but for whatever reason it is a lot harder that it use to be for them to beat out the Razorbacks for a player.

[ricepig]

You Guys keep that Indian talent and I will take the kids CBB and staff are bringing in!  How many Freshmen All American does the Indians have? Had? Will EVER have?  South ARKANSAS may have some players but nobody else is signing them either.  Didn't Pine Bluff have a stud qb a year or so ago that this board was saying he should be a HOG? Who is he playing for?  Got to be able to get in school to play!

He played baseball for the Red Indians until he quit this year.

[Seminole Indian]

You Guys keep that Indian talent and I will take the kids CBB and staff are bringing in!  How many Freshmen All American does the Indians have? Had? Will EVER have?  South ARKANSAS may have some players but nobody else is signing them either.  Didn't Pine Bluff have a stud qb a year or so ago that this board was saying he should be a HOG? Who is he playing for?  Got to be able to get in school to play!

The last first team freshman all-American was last year.
http://www.sportswriters.net/fwaa/news/2012/allamerica130107.html

I ASU fans  would love for ASU to have a class as good as a Razorback class.

[reddogjcss]

They are competing well in the sun belt! But that's not the SEC or even close.

[Fatty McGee]

1highhog is right, there are some very good athletes being overlooked. Look at the Arkansans that make it to the NFL & how many of them DIDN'T play for the Hogs.

How many players from Arkansas are in the NFL that we didn't recruit?

[DeltaBoy]

We still wiffed on Dixon even though he lead his team to a state title.

[Piggfoot]

I'm not going to name them because I never want to embarrass players but I can think of several supposedly "hungry" in-state kids in the program right now who can't get off the bench because they're not good enough to help this team win SEC games.


If you want to argue that they need to recruit better out-of-state players or that they need to stop losing top in-state players to Alabama, I'll agree. But the secret to winning SEC games does not boil down to signing more in-state players, not unless they are players that other SEC teams want.

I agree with you Mike. There is nothing to stop an Arkansas HS boy who is a fan from walking on and trying to earn a scholarship. Scholarships should be reserved for the best players regardless of their state. Now if comparing two players and they are equal and you're down to the last scholarship, I would give the nod to the Arkansas boy.

[the_kosher_pig]

I agree with you Mike. There is nothing to stop an Arkansas HS boy who is a fan from walking on and trying to earn a scholarship. Scholarships should be reserved for the best players regardless of their state. Now if comparing two players and they are equal and you're down to the last scholarship, I would give the nod to the Arkansas boy.

Other than the amount of money it takes.  A lot of the kids in Southern Arkansas can't afford to get to camps, do you expect them to walk on and pay their own way?

[ricepig]

Other than the amount of money it takes.  A lot of the kids in Southern Arkansas can't afford to get to camps, do you expect them to walk on and pay their own way?

I think they should play wherever it gives them the opportunity to have their college paid for. Now, how many use it as an excuse, and how many find a way to camps? There are all kinds of grants/scholarships available, I realize there isn't one for everyone, but to just say they can't afford to go to camp is a little simplistic.

[the_kosher_pig]

I know a lot of kids who couldn't even visit local colleges.  No car, no parents willing to drive them, etc.  This was academic and athletic students.  Just because the Arkansas median income is 30k+ doesn't mean everyone makes that much. 

[ricepig]

I know a lot of kids who couldn't even visit local colleges.  No car, no parents willing to drive them, etc.  This was academic and athletic students.  Just because the Arkansas median income is 30k+ doesn't mean everyone makes that much. 

Yet, there are kids attending the UofA from that very situation. You make what you want from this world, I think you know what I mean.

[dagnamit]

I think they should play wherever it gives them the opportunity to have their college paid for. Now, how many use it as an excuse, and how many find a way to camps? There are all kinds of grants/scholarships available, I realize there isn't one for everyone, but to just say they can't afford to go to camp is a little simplistic.

If they are good. Money is not a problem.. =) ricepig will pick them up and drive them himself.

[ricepig]

If they are good. Money is not a problem.. =) ricepig will pick them up and drive them himself.

Only if they play their Sr year in Jonesboro.

[Kicking Wing]

Nonsense.

Arkansas beat Louisiana-Lafayette 34-14 in Fayetteville. Louisiana-Lafayette beat Arkansas State 23-7 in Jonesboro.

Don't bring the SEC, any SEC team, into a discussion about the Sun Belt.

The topic of this thread aside, you should know that score comparisons are foolish.  You could use the ULM games from last year to get the opposite result.

[Mike Irwin]

The topic of this thread aside, you should know that score comparisons are foolish.  You could use the ULM games from last year to get the opposite result.

What I know is, the guy who said Arkansas could not beat Ball State is wrong. With the exception of the Rutgers game all of Arkansas losses were to SEC teams each of which could have beaten Ball State.

Losing to Rutgers on the road without a competitive QB doesn't mean the Hogs were so bad this season that they couldn't have beaten most mid-majors.

As for the 2012 ULM game, they lost that one for two reasons. Their coaching staff was awful and they lost their starting QB. Arkansas could have played ULM 10 times and beaten them 10 times with a healthy Tyler Wilson. With this year's coaching staff they could have beaten them without Tyler Wilson.

[Got_da_captain]

All I know is you have to be blind or stupid not to acknowledge A-states improved
recruiting. You don't win 28 games in 3 years even in bad conferences without good recruits. ASU is consistantly beating out Memphis, southern miss and Latech for local recruits. ASU has also shown the ability to go find their playmakers in Texas and Alabama...can't hate them for the recent uptick in recruiting

[Atlhogfan1]

All I know is you have to be blind or stupid not to acknowledge A-states improved
recruiting. You don't win 28 games in 3 years even in bad conferences without good recruits. ASU is consistantly beating out Memphis, southern miss and Latech for local recruits. ASU has also shown the ability to go find their playmakers in Texas and Alabama...can't hate them for the recent uptick in recruiting

No hate.  They finally hit that untapped potential.  They have been in a good situation being the program in Arkansas capable of picking up the players who aren't quite considered SEC-level recruits.  And with their location close to Memphis, they can use that in the region outside of Arkansas as well.  It just took a coach to turn it around and start getting those players.  Roberts helped and handed it off to capable coaches since who can max the program's potential. 

[chiefsfan]

For years Arkansas pulled the Nutt approach of building a hole filled fence around the state.  You guys offered a bunch of guys that may or may not have been SEC caliber in that time.

I'd say the results were pretty mixed.

Its no secret that ASU's top group of players were recruited in 2009, Petrino's first year at Arkansas.

[Seminole Indian]

What I know is, the guy who said Arkansas could not beat Ball State is wrong. With the exception of the Rutgers game all of Arkansas losses were to SEC teams each of which could have beaten Ball State.

Losing to Rutgers on the road without a competitive QB doesn't mean the Hogs were so bad this season that they couldn't have beaten most mid-majors.

As for the 2012 ULM game, they lost that one for two reasons. Their coaching staff was awful and they lost their starting QB. Arkansas could have played ULM 10 times and beaten them 10 times with a healthy Tyler Wilson. With this year's coaching staff they could have beaten them without Tyler Wilson.

I have no doubts the Razorbacks could beat Ball State. I also have not doubts  that Ball State could beat the Razorbacks. Think it would have been a good game.

[Seminole Indian]

No hate.  They finally hit that untapped potential.  They have been in a good situation being the program in Arkansas capable of picking up the players who aren't quite considered SEC-level recruits.  And with their location close to Memphis, they can use that in the region outside of Arkansas as well.  It just took a coach to turn it around and start getting those players.  Roberts helped and handed it off to capable coaches since who can max the program's potential.

I think ASU is signing a lot of players that are SEC -level recruits. Problem is there are not enough SEC scholarships available.

SEC teams can only take so many players at a given position each year. Yes the competition for these players by the Non-SEC teams is intense, but ASU has been winning its share  of those battles. Enough to change its program.

Besides the average SEC team signs maybe 10 players a year that are clearly superior talents(when they sign, maybe not 2-3 years later) to what is normally available to a G5, or lower level P5 program, after that their signees are not much different than the better players signed by a G5  program. That is why that can beat you, even at your place.

[Got_da_captain]

I think ASU is signing a lot of players that are SEC -level recruits. Problem is there are not enough SEC scholarships available.

SEC teams can only take so many players at a given position each year. Yes the competition for these players by the Non-SEC teams is intense, but ASU has been winning its share  of those battles. Enough to change its program.

Besides the average SEC team signs maybe 10 players a year that are clearly superior talents(when they sign, maybe not 2-3 years later) to what is normally available to a G5, or lower level P5 program, after that their signees are not much different than the better players signed by a G5  program. That is why that can beat you, even at your place.

You do make a good point with scholly's. We have gotten a handful off of ole miss alone. We also seem to get the talent the SEC schools overlook which means our coaches have done their homework evaluating talent!

[popcornhog]

I didn't FAIL to mention it guys, they fall through the cracks, many do around the State each year.  It's not just the Pine Bluff area, that's just and area I KNOW our recruiters have failed to recruit in many years, I know this for fact, because they haven't been seen there at games.  They have to show up at games to see these boys play, if they're not there, our guys are not recruiting the area.  I'm hoping that our new staff sees this which I think they will.

Who are some of these kids?

[Seminole Indian]

You do make a good point with scholly's. We have gotten a handful off of ole miss alone. We also seem to get the talent the SEC schools overlook which means our coaches have done their homework evaluating talent!

In many cases they are not over looked.

The average fan does not realize how much infighting there is on any coaching staff whether to offer this player or that, and in many cases they struggle ( actually real fights breakout some times) to the last minute. You would be shocked how many calls ASU gets from coaches at major schools, including Arkansas, giving them a heads up about a player they are going to have to pass on. Why, because they do not want that player at another SEC school, or even in another P5 conference.

I guarantee you every SEC team would have to sign 50 players every year to get the all the players their coaching staffs felt strongly could play in the SEC. Fortunately for the ASU,the other SBC teams, and JC's, that is where they have been routing many of these players.

Like the commissioner of the SBC said, they would have turned out the lights on the SBC without the help of the SEC, and the same can be said about the improvement in talent in the SBC, it is due in big part to the help of coaches in the SEC, including Arkansas.

[Inhogswetrust]

Which Arkansas team? Their appeared to be more than one this season. The good one could beat most FBS teams, the bad one would struggle against a solid FCS team.

Both the Razorbacks and Wolves were up and down this year which I contribute to having new coaches and youth.

We all know you mean ASU as the good one and if you think they could beat most (meaning the not so good AND the really good since most means out of all) GOOD FBS teams you're crazy. Then to think the Hogs as the bad one would struggle against solid FCS teams proves it.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Where do they usually end up playing?

Tuba or intramural..

[Inhogswetrust]

We still wiffed on Dixon even though he lead his team to a state title.

Any recruit that is "wiffed" means a lot of schools wiffed on him and not just the Hogs. There are also more that are not highly ranked or recruited and do better than they were ranked coming out of high school.

[Inhogswetrust]

Which Arkansas team? Their appeared to be more than one this season. The good one could beat most FBS teams, the bad one would struggle against a solid FCS team.

Both the Razorbacks and Wolves were up and down this year which I contribute to having new coaches and youth.

Yet when the wolves were down they weren't playing  Bama, LSU, old barn, Tamu, etc....................................................

[Seminole Indian]

Yet when the wolves were down they weren't playing  Bama, LSU, old barn, Tamu, etc....................................................

I agree..................but those that were charged with making the final call when all was said and done decided, for the 2nd year in a row that ASU was the best FBS team in Arkansas. That is it,  it is  over, case closed, the final BCS rankings are on the record, forever.

Am I skeptical? Well yes, because whenever I watched the Hawgs, they played well, against very good teams. Maybe did not win but could have and maybe should have. I watched the bad ASU  games, and man they were bad, I mean really bad.

[Inhogswetrust]

ASU has really not had any  luck at all signing players with offers from the Razorbacks in recent years. Were much more successful years ago when they played a lower level.

Might be that they play in the SEC, or the scholarship limitations, but for whatever reason it is a lot harder that it use to be for them to beat out the Razorbacks for a player.

RARELY in the past did ASU "beat out" the Hogs for a player. Saying that happened more in the past is false.

[Seminole Indian]

RARELY in the past did ASU "beat out" the Hogs for a player. Saying that happened more in the past is false.

No it is not, it is true, even in football, and very common in the other sports. Not so much since the 80's for some reason.

[Inhogswetrust]

The last first team freshman all-American was last year.
http://www.sportswriters.net/fwaa/news/2012/allamerica130107.html

I ASU fans  would love for ASU to have a class as good as a Razorback class.

Ironically he was from Alabama not Arkansas. This thread was started about IN-state recruiting.

[Seminole Indian]

Ironically he was from Alabama not Arkansas. This thread was started about IN-state recruiting.

But the question was when and if ASU ever had a freshman all-American. Don't think yours this year is from Arkansas.

You would do a lot better if you knew a little more about what you are talking about.

[Inhogswetrust]

Only if they play their Sr year in Jonesboro.

I think ASU is signing a lot of players that are SEC -level recruits. Problem is there are not enough SEC scholarships available.

SEC teams can only take so many players at a given position each year. Yes the competition for these players by the Non-SEC teams is intense, but ASU has been winning its share  of those battles. Enough to change its program.

Besides the average SEC team signs maybe 10 players a year that are clearly superior talents(when they sign, maybe not 2-3 years later) to what is normally available to a G5, or lower level P5 program, after that their signees are not much different than the better players signed by a G5  program. That is why that can beat you, even at your place.

A couple or a few is not a LOT in most dictionaries...........................

[Atlhogfan1]

I think ASU is signing a lot of players that are SEC -level recruits. Problem is there are not enough SEC scholarships available.

SEC teams can only take so many players at a given position each year. Yes the competition for these players by the Non-SEC teams is intense, but ASU has been winning its share  of those battles. Enough to change its program.

Besides the average SEC team signs maybe 10 players a year that are clearly superior talents(when they sign, maybe not 2-3 years later) to what is normally available to a G5, or lower level P5 program, after that their signees are not much different than the better players signed by a G5  program. That is why that can beat you, even at your place.

A lot?  No.  A few sure whether due to scholarship limitations or academic reasons or being overlooked. 

Sure your level of program is capable of beating an SEC team even at our place.  You took a compliment of your program on our board and used it to take a shot at our program.  What is ASU's record vs SEC teams?  You beat A&M once in 2008 when they were in the Big 12.  I think I remember you tying OM once a long time ago maybe.  You did beat them in 1915 which is their only loss ever to a Sun Belt program. 

[Inhogswetrust]

In many cases they are not over looked.

The average fan does not realize how much infighting there is on any coaching staff whether to offer this player or that, and in many cases they struggle ( actually real fights breakout some times) to the last minute. You would be shocked how many calls ASU gets from coaches at major schools, including Arkansas, giving them a heads up about a player they are going to have to pass on. Why, because they do not want that player at another SEC school, or even in another P5 conference.

I guarantee you every SEC team would have to sign 50 players every year to get the all the players their coaching staffs felt strongly could play in the SEC. Fortunately for the ASU,the other SBC teams, and JC's, that is where they have been routing many of these players.

Like the commissioner of the SBC said, they would have turned out the lights on the SBC without the help of the SEC, and the same can be said about the improvement in talent in the SBC, it is due in big part to the help of coaches in the SEC, including Arkansas.

I will give you credit for bringing out the fact that lower scholarship limits today versus years past has had a trickle down effect. But to think that means smaller conference type programs can consistently beat the top conferences teams is wrong. There is not enough trickle down for that to happen since there are a lot of smaller schools for those players to go to. In other words it "spreads the wealth" of talent. Then I agree it becomes coaching. Therefore if you have a revolving door at the coaches offices you take a huge risk of eventually falling back with a bad hire. That is what ASU needs to worry about but they should enjoy their success while they have it. That SEC help is the result of NCAA rules concerning scholarship number limits which have caused the SEC coaches to help. So the smaller conference teams should thank the NCAA and not the SEC. IF the big boy conferences were to ever gain control over their own destiny either as a part of or away from the NCAA that help would perhaps not be so forthcoming. 

[Inhogswetrust]

All I know is you have to be blind or stupid not to acknowledge A-states improved
recruiting. You don't win 28 games in 3 years even in bad conferences without good recruits. ASU is consistantly beating out Memphis, southern miss and Latech for local recruits. ASU has also shown the ability to go find their playmakers in Texas and Alabama...can't hate them for the recent uptick in recruiting

True. And the coaches that got them there were from around here. Roberts, Freeze and Malzahn. The new guy isn't. Hold your breath and hope he can continue it.

[Inhogswetrust]

No it is not, it is true, even in football, and very common in the other sports. Not so much since the 80's for some reason.

They NEVER beat out the Hogs except once or twice I remember for any instate recruit going all the way back to Franks time.

[Inhogswetrust]

But the question was when and if ASU ever had a freshman all-American. Don't think yours this year is from Arkansas.

You would do a lot better if you knew a little more about what you are talking about.

I think I know just as much as you do on the subject. Maybe more. I have quite a few friends that were recruited athletes (some very highly recruited) and some are coaches now or played pro ball. I also know a few media members in the state. I also talk to coaches in my business. Have have a lot of them AND recruits and media stay in my hotels. Even in Jonesboro. I had one even tell me why Pel was not going to get it done at Arkansas but will not reveal the details. He knew him well since he was affiliated with him in the past at a certain place. Ironically we sometimes agree. The really interesting thing is you say you are not a fan of ASU yet you post 99% of the time about them. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

[Seminole Indian]

A lot?  No.  A few sure whether due to scholarship limitations or academic reasons or being overlooked. 

Sure your level of program is capable of beating an SEC team even at our place.  You took a compliment of your program on our board and used it to take a shot at our program.  What is ASU's record vs SEC teams?  You beat A&M once in 2008 when they were in the Big 12.  I think I remember you tying OM once a long time ago maybe.  You did beat them in 1915 which is their only loss ever to a Sun Belt program.

I would say  25%-30% of their roster is SEC caliber. Maybe not high SEC caliber, but SEC caliber, and better yet the rest of their roster is FBS caliber.

As little as 5-6 years ago maybe they had 4-5 players that were SEC caliber on their roster, and half their roster were FCS caliber . Things changed fast over there, and are getting better.

[Seminole Indian]

I know just as much as you do on the subject. Maybe more. Ironically we sometimes agree. The really interesting thing is you say you are not a fan of ASU yet you post 99% of the time about them. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

I agree we, are not far apart, and I have not been "hands on" in recruiting since Perkins left ASU, so I am not playing with my "A" game for sure.

Well I did assist some ole buddies when they were at Tennessee a couple of times but that has been all. Gave it up, called it quits.

[Inhogswetrust]

I agree we, are not far apart, and I have not been "hands on" in recruiting since Perkins left ASU, so I am not playing with my "A" game for sure.

Well I did assist some ole buddies when they were at Tennessee a couple of times but that has been all. Gave it up, called it quits.

I can't say as I blame you there. Recruiting should have been the top episode of that TV show "Dirty Jobs"! Especially with basketball! I have an uncle that started out out of high school working for a city Water/sewer department in Arkansas. Worked his way up to #2 man in the department (no pun intended). When he started out he had to go into sewers and such and didn't have to deal with as much crap as happens in recruiting.

P.S. Most coaches know who the dirty and crooked recruiters are. Some are willing to hire them and others aren't.

[Seminole Indian]

I can't say as I blame you there. Recruiting should have been the top episode of that TV show "Dirty Jobs"! Especially with basketball! I have an uncle that started out out of high school working for a city Water/sewer department in Arkansas. Worked his way up to #2 man in the department (no pun intended). When he started out he had to go into sewers and such and didn't have to deal with as much crap as happens in recruiting.

P.S. Most coaches know who the dirty and crooked recruiters are. Some are willing to hire them and others aren't.

Well, in recruiting like everything involving competition, you have to do what ever it takes to get and edge, and I was good enough at that to be 'value added', to a number of coaches over the years.

Of course me and my buddies believed in playing fair, and not breaking the rules (maybe bend them a little), but it was a game for us. We all got a reality check a few years ago when one of out colleagues,  stepped way over the line and got caught. It was more than a little bit embarrassing.

[DeltaBoy]

The UA staff got to get more kids to Greyshirt and Walk out at the UA using some of those millions Long is raking it for schoolies.

[chiefsfan]

Back in the Nutt era, we found ourselves in an odd situation where we would bring a recruit on campus for a visit, and a couple days later, Danny Nutt would show up in their home with at least a grayshirt offer.  Talk was at the time that Dickey was telling Houston who we were recruiting, and they would try and steal them from us.

Near the end of Roberts tenure, ASU began developing a pipeline into Alabama, and Freeze really continued that.  As of now, we'll sign 5 or 6 Arkansas kids, and then bring the rest in from out of state.  Only exception was Malzahn's year when he signed like 12 guys from Arkansas.  But that was Malzahn, and he's just a different cat.

Realistically, ASU pulled away from Arkansas recruits because Nutt would steal so many late in the game.   We profit in state from the recruits that Arkansas overlooks, or places a second or third emphasis on. 

[ricepig]

Back in the Nutt era, we found ourselves in an odd situation where we would bring a recruit on campus for a visit, and a couple days later, Danny Nutt would show up in their home with at least a grayshirt offer.  Talk was at the time that Dickey was telling Houston who we were recruiting, and they would try and steal them from us.

Near the end of Roberts tenure, ASU began developing a pipeline into Alabama, and Freeze really continued that.  As of now, we'll sign 5 or 6 Arkansas kids, and then bring the rest in from out of state.  Only exception was Malzahn's year when he signed like 12 guys from Arkansas.  But that was Malzahn, and he's just a different cat.

Realistically, ASU pulled away from Arkansas recruits because Nutt would steal so many late in the game.   We profit in state from the recruits that Arkansas overlooks, or places a second or third emphasis on. 

So, the basketball coach knew who the football team had brought in, or was recruiting? I doubt Mike Anderson has time to worry about who were recruiting, much less who is visiting.

[chiefsfan]

So, the basketball coach knew who the football team had brought in, or was recruiting? I doubt Mike Anderson has time to worry about who were recruiting, much less who is visiting.

We often brought recruits to basketball games.  That was the working theory that I know several in the athletic department had for a while.

[ricepig]

We often brought recruits to basketball games.  That was the working theory that I know several in the athletic department had for a while.

We bring them all the time, still doubt Mike has any clue what's going on. Of course, we are talking about a Nutt, so maybe he was more interested in Arkansas football, than ASU basketball.

[Atlhogfan1]

I'm the last one to defend Nutt but that happened with very few recruits compared to the number we recruited and/or signed.  Our recruiting usually does leave us with an opportunity to go back to an Arkansas kid late like Marshall last class.  It isn't about stealing recruits from ASU.  The Nutts, as dysfunctional, unorganized, unprofessional, etc as they are did not need their brother to know an Arkansas kid visited ASU or was getting an offer from ASU.  They could find that out in countless ways.  This seems like another one of those [CENSORED] retarded conspiracy theories that the faction as I call them dreams up to make themselves a victim of something UA related. 

[prairiehogcompanion]

Says at least two things:

a) As Arkansas of necessity becomes  more national in its recruiting aims, there's a wider opening for Arkansas State for in-state players on the margins.

2) Arkansas State's success has improved its recruiting platform both within and outside Arkansas.