From the Bench - Every College Plays at Home but They also play their State Rival

[Robert Shields]

Every College Plays Home Games on Campus?
They Also Play Their In-State Rivals Every Year

Robert Shields

House Bill 2274 was recently introduced by two enterprising state representatives to require the Arkansas Razorbacks and ASU Red Wolves to play a football game at War Memorial Stadium in Little Rock.

They say the game will encourage economic activity, statewide interest in "intra-collegiate" athletics (correct term would be "intercollegiate" in this instance), and philanthropic support.

I guess all they had to do was mention "philanthropic support" to wake up the Razorback Foundation, which wants to make sure such a game doesn't take away any of its philanthropic booty.

In response to the proposed bill, the Razorback Foundation sent out an email to donors that state the UA's position on the game, which it has held since I was born: Under no circumstances should the two teams ever meet unless it's under the order of law or the NIT tournament if you're trying to get your coached fired.

In what is perhaps a flubbed public relations attempt, the Razorback Foundation included in the email a link to the state reps' website promoting the game and suggested that its donors let their voices be heard.

Well, either the donors like the idea of the game or treated the Foundation email as spam because at press time 52 percent of people voting in the website's poll said they would like to see the game played with 71 percent voting Arkansas Children's Hospital – ironically an affiliate of the University of Arkansas system – as the beneficiary.

And it is at this point that I would like to offer a special thanks to our esteemed state Legislature and the Razorback Foundation for providing column material like the days of yore.

I wrote just two weeks ago that people shouldn't worry about the Arkansas-ASU matchup because your Legislature takes up the issue about every two years to reignite the debate. Then on cue, this bill gets filed. I guess they were waiting for me to write that column first.

The debate continues to recur because the match-up has already delivered historic results.

If Cannon Whitby doesn't hammer home some three-point bank shots and Stephan Moore doesn't jack up some kid named Goshen back when these two schools played each other in the NIT in 1987, does Nolan keep his job and do the Razorbacks then ever win a national championship?

That game was arguably one of the most exciting Razorback basketball games ever played in the state, ranking right up there with games such as Charles Ballentine's jumper to beat Jordan's North Carolina team and Smoking Joe Kleine beating Phi Slamma Jamma.

Why would the state ever want to rob itself of such drama each year by precluding this game?
The reality my "Outstanding Student in Economics" certificate tells me is that it's all about money.

There is no economic incentive in the world for the Razorbacks to play the Red Wolves, and it is viewed as a huge disincentive unless you're trying to get your coach fired. Mark this down now – if the teams ever do meet again, the first Razorback coach to lose to an ASU team will be fired on spot if not shot.

The one part the authors of the proposed bill got right is that the game should be played in Central Arkansas and at War Memorial Stadium. The UofA has tried in piecemeal fashion since Feb. 11, 2000, to extricate itself from playing more games in Little Rock and is actually playing fewer and fewer over time against lesser and lesser opponents.

I will let you figure out for yourself what message that sends to Stephens.

In all my Great Stadium Debate columns for over a decade explaining why games needed to stay in Little Rock, the most common argument against that thought was that home games should be played on campus because that is what every other team does.

I won't go into the fallacy of that point, but playing along as though it is an absolute truth, every other team also plays its in-state rival.

It would only make sense that the matchup be played at the crossroads of Arkansas in Little Rock -- the place that separates the hills from the Delta, the farmer from the rancher, the old part of the state from the new part, and the place where the legislation passed that mandated this game.

-

Transparency in Football Program Includes Open Practices
and History Tells Us There Are Reasons to Keep Tabs on Coaches

"The UofA has a whole department that does a great job putting out the propaganda. It's the media's job to challenge it and not take it as gospel. This program has gotten into a lot of trouble over the years because the media has not been there to provide the check or the balance."

Just two weeks ago, that quote was written in this space. Last week, I protested the UofA essentially closing off practices more so than even Bobby Petrino did, and he was not exactly a model of transparency. Believe it or not, the responses that I received back after that column were heated.

To paraphrase, the responses went pretty much like this, "It's none of your business what the UofA does. Coach Bret Bielema should do whatever is in the best interest of the team to help them win."

For better or worse makes little difference to me. I did not write the column last week hoping to get more access for me. I'm not a beat reporter and do not watch the football Program on a daily basis.

I wrote the column for you. It's your program and you have the right to know.

Further, it's the state's leading education institution that is subsidized in the millions of taxpayer dollars plus a constant flow of supporter donations that it takes to operate. The coach is the highest-paid state employee. You have some right to know what he is doing with your school and team.

You have a right to know how he is treating the players.

One stated reason for practices to be closed, according to some reports by our media apologists, is because Coach Bielema doesn't want the dress down of players by coaches or failed execution on the field to be made public because it might embarrass a player. I paraphrased that, but it the gist of the stated reason to close practices.

Not that I don't trust Coach Bielema, as there is every reason to trust him, but if even recent history is any indication, it's important to keep tabs on your coach.

I'm sure the fans at Kansas trusted Mark Mangino, Texas Tech trusted Mike Leach, and South Florida trusted Jim Leavitt to do whatever in practice because there was the promise of wins on the scoreboard.

Even last year with Petrino, you have to wonder if someone would have been watching closer or was able to have reported sooner that the whole catastrophe with the volleyball player could have been avoided.

Instead, the result was borne out of the fact Petrino was winning and you didn't question him.

Transparency is important because a coach can't do whatever he wants just because he wins. The greatest example is Penn State.

When the media turns a blind eye and the public doesn't care, bad things happen. And that's the opening monologue.


Send your secrets to fromthebench@yahoo.com.

[Inhogswetrust]

Thank you Robert for wasting valuable internet space even though I DIDN'T READ!

[Biggus Piggus]

The reality my "Outstanding Student in Economics" certificate tells me

What the hell is this?

I won't go into the fallacy of that point, but playing along as though it is an absolute truth, every other team also plays its in-state rival.

Texas doesn't play Texas A&M.

[OTTER]

Please post your "column" where it belongs---the trash!

[jacobp]

Texas doesn't play Texas A&M.

Not only that, the key word is RIVAL. AR State is not our rival. They're an afterthought.

[Inhogswetrust]

Not only that, the key word is RIVAL. AR State is not our rival. They're an afterthought.

EXACTLY! asu wants to force us to play them so they can call themselves our rival. Even if it happened they STILL would NOT be our rival. It would only be thought of that way in their and only their minds.

[Rey Pygsterio]

Texas and Texas A&M have played against each other 118 times in football.

Last season was the first time the two teams had not played each other since 1914, and that was because of a massive fan brawl in 1911.

Both schools mention each other in their fight songs.

Did someone seriously use these two schools as an example of in-state schools that don't play each other?

[HoggieStyle]

Meh...

[ricepig]

Texas and Texas A&M have played against each other 118 times in football.

Last season was the first time the two teams had not played each other since 1914, and that was because of a massive fan brawl in 1911.

Both schools mention each other in their fight songs.

Did someone seriously use these two schools as an example of in-state schools that don't play each other?

Tell you what, when you get the two universities to change their fight songs to include each other, then we'll talk about the game.

[Sue E NoNutts]

We have a right to know how coaches are treating players?

I disagree. How the players are being treated is between the coaches, players, Jeff Long and maybe the players' parents.  True, it's nice to know how players are treated, and I like hearing updates, but I don't think I have a RIGHT to know. Do I also have the right to sit in on Jeff Long's private meetings?  Just because my money goes to the university doesn't mean I have a right to know everything that goes on.

And Coach B owes us nothing when it comes to practice. Practice is for the coaches and the players. Games are for the fans. Coach B has been more than open about himself, how he conducts practice, and his opinions. I feel like I know Coach B as a person way more in these few months than I ever knew BP.

[99toLife]

Texas and Texas A&M have played against each other 118 times in football.

Last season was the first time the two teams had not played each other since 1914, and that was because of a massive fan brawl in 1911.

Both schools mention each other in their fight songs.

Did someone seriously use these two schools as an example of in-state schools that don't play each other?

I agree, I had to laugh at that OOPS!

[MultipleScoreGasms]

If this game actually was played, I don't agree with your reasoning as to why WMS would be the natural location for the event.  It certainly isn't the mid-point between NWA and NEA.  Having grown up attending Hog games in LR, I can tell you that I haven't met a single fan that gives a "rat's ***" about a game with ASU.  In any event, WMS is losing games because they have refused to make meaningful upgrades that were being called for as far back as Holtz. 

On another note, if ASU wants the game, let them be the home team, cover all the related expenses, and pay UA the market rate for an SECW team to be the visiting opponent.  Clearly this game is for their benefit only (oh, and for a city that refuses to upgrade facilities while trying to force continued patronage at "gun point").

[DOGALUM]

Who the hell is Robert Shields?



LOL......"at press time"......translation....."When mom kicked me off the couch this morning and told me to get a job or get out of the house".

[Tim Harris]

Once AState gets good enough to play big boy football the the Hogs will schedule them.


All the other games you are thinking of the other in state team plays in a BCS conference.

[PeabodyHawg]

Did someone seriously use these two schools as an example of in-state schools that don't play each other?

In this point you are correct.  UA vs. ASU has nothing in common with  UT vs. A&M.  A better analogy would be UT not playing Sam Houston St. or A&M not playing Stephan F. Austin every year.

[Chief Mac]

Who the hell is Robert Shields?



LOL......"at press time"......translation....."When mom kicked me off the couch this morning and told me to get a job or get out of the house".

Robert Shields = poor man's Wally Hall

[Theolesnort]

Texas and Texas A&M have played against each other 118 times in football.

Last season was the first time the two teams had not played each other since 1914, and that was because of a massive fan brawl in 1911.

Both schools mention each other in their fight songs.

Did someone seriously use these two schools as an example of in-state schools that don't play each other?

Rey we live in the here and now. They don't play each other. And the shorthorns want to keep it that way. They are extremely pissed at the Aggies.

[ArkansasI]

Every College Plays Home Games on Campus?
They Also Play Their In-State Rivals Every Year

I am not real sure what I feel about this issue anymore.  I certainly don't believe that the game helps the Razorbacks - and I am convinced that only good things for the Razorbacks are also good for the State of Arkansas.  With that stated, I understand why Arkansas State wants the game - they have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.

While we are busy hammering the Razorbacks for not playing the Red Wolves, perhaps we should ask who the Cornhuskers play that is from Nebraska, who Mizzou plays that is from Missouri, LSU from Louisiana, Badgers from Wisconsin, Gophers from Minnesota, etc.

Aren't these games usually interconference?  Texas v. SWC, OU/Oklahoma State, KU/K-State, Alabama/Auburn, Ole Miss/Mississippi State, PAC-10/12 games, Big 10 games, ACC etc.

Where non-conference in-state rivals have played, I don't know where it has ever helped football at Kentucky, Colorado, South Carolina, or even Georgia.  Of course, South Carolina/Clemson pre-date conference affiliations.  Georgia/Georgia Tech is an old SEC game.  Arkansas/Arkansas State isn't really the same classification of games is it?  Is the state legislature of Pennsylvania setting up a football game between Penn and Penn State?

I think I wish that our legislators would worry about more important issues.

[Baghdadhawg]

Alabama plays Auburn ..... because they are in the SEC.  Ole Miss plays Mississippi State plays ..... because they are in the SEC.  Get back with me ..... when ASU is in the SEC.

[Hog-Corleone]

If this game actually was played, I don't agree with your reasoning as to why WMS would be the natural location for the event.  It certainly isn't the mid-point between NWA and NEA.  Having grown up attending Hog games in LR, I can tell you that I haven't met a single fan that gives a "rat's ***" about a game with ASU.  In any event, WMS is losing games because they have refused to make meaningful upgrades that were being called for as far back as Holtz. 

On another note, if ASU wants the game, let them be the home team, cover all the related expenses, and pay UA the market rate for an SECW team to be the visiting opponent.  Clearly this game is for their benefit only (oh, and for a city that refuses to upgrade facilities while trying to force continued patronage at "gun point").

Please see the bold part above.  You want this game, pay for it.  Put up or shut up.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Started to type a response but then thought why validate his opinion or act like it has any merit whatsoever.  I mean you don't go up to a homeless person and say hey you are homeless.  You don't go up to an ugly girl and say hey you are ugly.  And you don't go up to a kid that has a developmental disability and say hey you are stupid. 

[Root66]

Just from the Subject line of that diatribe, I have a question for Robert. Which one of these is our STATE RIVAL?

UAPB? UA-Monticello? Central Arkansas? Arkansas Tech? Arkansas State? Ouachita? Henderson? Hendrix? Southern Arkansas? UALR? Throw 'em all in a pile and they look just alike.

[Hog-Corleone]

Who the Hell is Robert Shields

House Bill 2274 was recently introduced by two enterprising butt hurt ASU dropout state representatives to require bully the Arkansas Razorbacks and ASU Red Wolves to play a football game at the dump that is War Memorial Stadium in Little Rock against the ASU Redwolves Stepchildren.

Meanwhile unemployment is up, the poverty rate is at an all-time high, the state of Arkansas is losing more and more business to neighboring states, etc. etc. etc... and this is what our legislature is wasting their time with...

This is what you should have written... but that would have meant you were a journalist of some kind.

Stupid...

[TOM "tbw1"]

Started to type a response but then thought why validate his opinion or act like it has any merit whatsoever.  I mean you don't go up to a homeless person and say hey you are homeless.  You don't go up to an ugly girl and say hey you are ugly.  And you don't go up to a kid that has a developmental disability and say hey you are stupid. 

Dwight, I would like to add the following to your message as you did not mention those with empty souls..

All empty souls tend toward extreme opinions.
William Butler Yeats

[TOM "tbw1"]

Just from the Subject line of that diatribe, I have a question for Robert. Which one of these is our STATE RIVAL?

UAPB? UA-Monticello? Central Arkansas? Arkansas Tech? Arkansas State? Ouachita? Henderson? Hendrix? Southern Arkansas? UALR? Throw 'em all in a pile and they look just alike.

Harding?

[Sed76]

Play Arkansas State at War Memorial ever year and play all the rest of the games on campus. As someone who loves the games in Little Rock I'd settle for a compromise of something like this.

[ricepig]

Harding?

Hendrix, they are restarting their program and could use the help.

[DeltaBoy]

Solid coverage of the Issue Robert.

[deedster84]

Here's my problem with it. Who benefits from it and who outside Arkansas cares about it.

To help ASU recruiting, they need to go outside the state and get those million dollar paydays and spread their name by playing other upper tier programs like they have been. Auburn, Nebraska, Oregon, Va Tech,.....

What benefit is it to Arkansas? None. They're still going to get recruits over ASU because they're in the SEC but the only recruits they both go for is in state recruits. If ASU was in a BCS conference I'd be all for it, but until, it's really a no win game for both teams.

[DOGALUM]

Solid coverage of the Issue Robert.

Delta.....even his most blindly loyal supporter (that's you btw) cannot possibly mistake the garbage that he posted as "solid coverage".   You don't want to bash him.....I get that.  But for goodness sake man.....don't call that trash "solid coverage".   

[Mr. Porkleone]

Sorry Robert,  your waaaay out there. Football a mans game. You probably should stick to badminton.

[Dr Swineglove]

Sorry Robert,  your waaaay out there. Football a mans game. You probably should stick to badminton.

+1

[Hog10S]

I don't recall Alabama playing Alabama Birmingham every year or OSU or OU playing Tulsa every year or, since leaving the SWC, I don't recall that Texas or Baylor play Rice or Houston every year (maybe every once in a while, if schedule otherwise permits).  Does LSU plan Tulane or Centenary?

I think there are lots of examples where, unless the schools are in the same conference, schools in the same state only sometimes to never play each other.  I can imagine this a lot in California where there are so many good size colleges. 

Bottom line, ASU has never been a rival or competitor of the UofA, and we don't need to change things now.  It is hard enough to work a good schedule out, we don't need another issue in having to schedule this kids every year just to make NE Ark happy.

[HogScoutMaster]

Texas and Texas A&M have played against each other 118 times in football.

Last season was the first time the two teams had not played each other since 1914, and that was because of a massive fan brawl in 1911.

Both schools mention each other in their fight songs.

Did someone seriously use these two schools as an example of in-state schools that don't play each other?

Yea Ray, we have many Idiots here

[Piggfoot]

I am not real sure what I feel about this issue anymore.  I certainly don't believe that the game helps the Razorbacks - and I am convinced that only good things for the Razorbacks are also good for the State of Arkansas.  With that stated, I understand why Arkansas State wants the game - they have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.

While we are busy hammering the Razorbacks for not playing the Red Wolves, perhaps we should ask who the Cornhuskers play that is from Nebraska, who Mizzou plays that is from Missouri, LSU from Louisiana, Badgers from Wisconsin, Gophers from Minnesota, etc.

Aren't these games usually interconference?  Texas v. SWC, OU/Oklahoma State, KU/K-State, Alabama/Auburn, Ole Miss/Mississippi State, PAC-10/12 games, Big 10 games, ACC etc.

Where non-conference in-state rivals have played, I don't know where it has ever helped football at Kentucky, Colorado, South Carolina, or even Georgia.  Of course, South Carolina/Clemson pre-date conference affiliations.  Georgia/Georgia Tech is an old SEC game.  Arkansas/Arkansas State isn't really the same classification of games is it?  Is the state legislature of Pennsylvania setting up a football game between Penn and Penn State?

I think I wish that our legislators would worry about more important issues.

Please look at LSU's schedule the last 4 years.

[Hawg Balling]

Not only that, the key word is RIVAL. AR State is not our rival. They're an afterthought.

And Bingo was his name-oh.

[Oklahawg]

I am pleased that I can find a reason to not read the OP just by noticing the title.

I am not-so-pleased that the basics - Rivalry 101 - is missed by too many.

A&M and UT do not play. And will not for the forseeable future. Why? They aren't required to by conference affiliation, which is what connects so many of the rivalries.

Does Penn State play Pittsburgh any more? I honestly don't know. Syracuse and SUNY? Does Ohio State play anyone from the state of Ohio (plenty of schools there playing D1 or D1-lite ball)? Again, I honestly don't know.

Only a fool supports the idea of handing a game off of the UA schedule that is not directly related to winning the SEC, making a BCS game or controlling a boat-load of cash. Playing A-State does none of these.

Playing A-State only legitimizes a school that could easily be playing down a division should BCS conferences continue to jockey about until the top 64-80 are playing in a handful of conferences. What a dreadful situation.

[Hawg Balling]

I am pleased that I can find a reason to not read the OP just by noticing the title.

I am not-so-pleased that the basics - Rivalry 101 - is missed by too many.

A&M and UT do not play. And will not for the forseeable future. Why? They aren't required to by conference affiliation, which is what connects so many of the rivalries.

Does Penn State play Pittsburgh any more? I honestly don't know. Syracuse and SUNY? Does Ohio State play anyone from the state of Ohio (plenty of schools there playing D1 or D1-lite ball)? Again, I honestly don't know.

Only a fool supports the idea of handing a game off of the UA schedule that is not directly related to winning the SEC, making a BCS game or controlling a boat-load of cash. Playing A-State does none of these.

Playing A-State only legitimizes a school that could easily be playing down a division should BCS conferences continue to jockey about until the top 64-80 are playing in a handful of conferences. What a dreadful situation.

Not since 2000, but they've scheduled a home-and-home starting in 2016.  Interestingly enough, Beano Cook used to talk about how Pittsburgh arguably "helped make" Penn State in the football program we know them to be today.  Pitt was a football powerhouse in the first half of the 20th century under Pop Warner and Jock Sutherland, and they claim 8 National Championships from the teens to the 1930s (the NCAA recognizes two more). 

[Grizzlyfan]

Not only that, the key word is RIVAL. AR State is not our rival. They're an afterthought.

As are the Razorbacks to every other team in the SEC.

[ArkansasI]

Please look at LSU's schedule the last 4 years.

Thanks for the reply.  Is that all you took from my post?

I see that LSU rotates in-state games - they don't schedule the same team annually.  There are no Louisiana opponents on their 2013 schedule.  I know that LSU used to play Tulane - but I think they were part of the old SEC.

The situation in Arkansas is different.  I suppose we could play A-State once every 4 or 5 years - rotate them with UCA, Arkansas Tech, Arkansas-Monticello and Hendrix...  If the Razorbacks are destined to play Arkansas State, I would like the decision to be made by the respective athletic departments - not the state legislature.

Developing a rivalry - any at all - with Arkansas State potentially divides loyalties for the less than 10 SEC caliber athletes that the state produces annually.  It just doesn't make much sense to me.  I get that there is offense that we spend money with other out of state teams.  Perhaps this is made up a bit when A-State plays Ole Miss and Auburn.     

[Piggfoot]

Thanks for the reply.  Is that all you took from my post?

I see that LSU rotates in-state games - they don't schedule the same team annually.  There are no Louisiana opponents on their 2013 schedule.  I know that LSU used to play Tulane - but I think they were part of the old SEC.

The situation in Arkansas is different.  I suppose we could play A-State once every 4 or 5 years - rotate them with UCA, Arkansas Tech, Arkansas-Monticello and Hendrix...  If the Razorbacks are destined to play Arkansas State, I would like the decision to be made by the respective athletic departments - not the state legislature.

Developing a rivalry - any at all - with Arkansas State potentially divides loyalties for the less than 10 SEC caliber athletes that the state produces annually.  It just doesn't make much sense to me.  I get that there is offense that we spend money with other out of state teams.  Perhaps this is made up a bit when A-State plays Ole Miss and Auburn.   

I gathered from your post you were of the opinion that the schools you listed did not play out of division state school. I knew this to be inaccurate and wished to inform you of LSU's past schedules. I am also listing a web site where LSU and Tulane were in negotiations to play in 2013 but apparently that is not going to happen. Also please look at the results of a poll taken to see if the series should be continued. I don't knoe who the respondants were. As for me I  have never been for Arkansas playing a lower division instate school andbut I believe someday it will happen and since that is the case I believe Arkansas should schedule it when it best suits them. Certainly not in a rebuilding year.

[phadedhawg]

If we played ASU we might get a true rival.  We've never had a true rival...just school that WE hated more than others.  Nobody really cared to play us unless we were good.  Any other year we are just another game on their schedule

It's sad but it is what it is...

[HogHomer]

If we played ASU we might get a true rival.  We've never had a true rival...just school that WE hated more than others.  Nobody really cared to play us unless we were good.  Any other year we are just another game on their schedule

It's sad but it is what it is...

A rivalry has to be two sided. ASU wouldn't be a "true rival" either. We are most likely never going to have a true rival.

[ChitownHawg]

My question is. - does Robert ever dialog after he dumps his articles on Hogville? Or is he more of a "hit n run" type of writer? 

[sowmonella]

His ramblings are more "hit and the runs".

[Hogman2]

Nebraska DOES NOT PLAY an instate team in football! Arkansas SHOULD NOT play A State! It will create bad blood  and is completely unnecessary!

[Runt]

I say we don't play ASU ever and move all the games to the hill.

[rljjr]

Not only that, the key word is RIVAL. AR State is not our rival. They're an afterthought.

That's disrespectful to true afterthoughts. I think they're somewhat lower on the pecking order -- that includes the chiclets, but not the erasers.

[phadedhawg]

I live my life against the grain (for better or worse).  I find Robert's articles as good as anything else that I read from Arkansas sport reporters. 

What I like most is his blind indifference to the hate thrown his way.  It's funny so keep it up!

[Root66]

Harding?

Yep. And Fort Smith High School.