comparing eras

[thirrdegreetusker]

In some discussions on this board, a poster will often opine something like "The game was different then. Those players/coaches/schemes would not be effective today." That, of course, pre-supposes that good players and good coaches would not adjust, and find a way to win, in any situation.

But, it being the off-season, and the board being a little slow, I thought about the opposite proposition, "Could today's players/coaches/schemes have succeeded 50 years ago?"



If I remember correctly, "roughing the passer" was called less often than"roughing the kicker"  is now. In other words, the QB had to clearly be still off-balance from the throwing motion. So, if you ran a passing offense, your QB was going to get hit every single down.

Offensive linemen could not use their hands, period. So the idea of having your QB drop straight back, and stand for two or three seconds, would have been ludicrous, at least against decent competition.

And, in 1965, a 310+ lb lineman, with no access to water (as was the custom then) would simply not survive August two-a-days.

[HappyHogFan]

There is no legitimate way to compare such disparate eras. I mean linebackers today are bigger than lineman in the 50s were.

Obviously there were players then who could have played today, but overall the teams of today would crush teams from the 50s. It's a cliche, but it truly isnt the same game.

I couldn't find anything specific to college football, but found this article about the NFL

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-50s-tim-tebow-would-have-been-an-offensive-lineman-2011-10#1920s-hakeem-nicks-wr-new-york-giants-1

In the 1960s the average NFL lineman was 6'3" 251 lbs.

In 2014 the average COLLEGE offensive lineman was 6'3" 302 lbs.

http://sportsnola.com/size-matters-college-footballs-biggest-offensive-linemen/

It would literally be boys among men. NO chance of competing.

[Razorfox]

"If I have seen further it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants." --Isaac Newton

In other words, things getter better over time because our collective abilities and knowledge is improved, not because individuals are different or better than they used to be. 

With respect to football, our collective knowledge of the different techniques over the years plus our knowledge of nutrition and fitness have increased. 

But it is all only because of great people that came before us. 

[Jek Tono Porkins]

If you look at tape in the 50's and 60's, offensive linemen don't pass block the way they do now and there were only a few passing plays called each game. Explosiveness was much more important for an offensive lineman because their job (on most running plays) was to block low with the shoulder immediately after the ball was snapped. They couldn't use their hands to block. They didn't really want to push the guy backwards, it was more about getting their body in front of the defender's legs so the defender couldn't go anywhere, and by the time the defender got out of the jam the running back was already downfield. Guards still pulled in those days but they used the same technique in the open field, get low with the shoulder and take out the defender's legs.

A 6'2, 225 pound guy that can shoot off the ball and get low quickly is more suited for that role than a 6'10" 325 behemoth that can't get low because his gut is in the way.

So it's not so much that people are getting fatter (they certainly are getting fatter) but the game as changed. Since you can now block with your hands, the issue is weight and strength rather than explosiveness, and for that you need a 6'10" 325 pound behemoth.

[Mike Irwin]

Offensive linemen are jacked up these days. I see some of these guys two and three years away from football and many of them are back down in the 250 pound range.

These guys could play 40 years ago and they would be better than the guys who played 40 years ago. They would have to lose some weight, that's all.

At the rest of the positions, you gotta be kidding me. They could play and they would kick butt.

[HappyHogFan]

If you look at tape in the 50's and 60's, offensive linemen don't pass block the way they do now and there were only a few passing plays called each game. Explosiveness was much more important for an offensive lineman because their job (on most running plays) was to block low with the shoulder immediately after the ball was snapped. They couldn't use their hands to block. They didn't really want to push the guy backwards, it was more about getting their body in front of the defender's legs so the defender couldn't go anywhere, and by the time the defender got out of the jam the running back was already downfield. Guards still pulled in those days but they used the same technique in the open field, get low with the shoulder and take out the defender's legs.

A 6'2, 225 pound guy that can shoot off the ball and get low quickly is more suited for that role than a 6'10" 325 behemoth that can't get low because his gut is in the way.

So it's not so much that people are getting fatter (they certainly are getting fatter) but the game as changed. Since you can now block with your hands, the issue is weight and strength rather than explosiveness, and for that you need a 6'10" 325 pound behemoth.

Some truth to that, but the lards of today are almost as quick and fast as those guys from back then. Just better conditioning and strengthening.

Of course, that isn't to say that the players from back then , couldn't have taken advantage of the newer technologies to become bigger and faster themselves, at least to a point.

[DeltaBoy]

Teams today have more Speed than 40 years ago.  That mid to late 1980s Cane D would have ran down Paul Horning in the hole!

[thirrdegreetusker]

How many Olympic gold medal 100 meter champs are playing in the NFL now? Zero.

How many in 1964? One.

Therefore, all players in the NFL in 1964 were faster than all players in the NFL now. Yeah, ridiculous.


C'mon guys. That 6'  2 1/2" , 235 lb guy, who was in high school in the 50s would be 6'3", 270+ with today's better nutrition and training methods.


But y'all failed to address the main premise: Today's players playing in the 60s.  Face it, a 6'4", 360 lb OL of today could not block any DL from the 60s, because he could not catch them.  Today, some 5-star huge OLs run a 5.3 in the 40.

[HappyHogFan]

How many Olympic gold medal 100 meter champs are playing in the NFL now? Zero.

How many in 1964? One.

Therefore, all players in the NFL in 1964 were faster than all players in the NFL now. Yeah, ridiculous.


C'mon guys. That 6'  2 1/2" , 235 lb guy, who was in high school in the 50s would be 6'3", 270+ with today's better nutrition and training methods.


But y'all failed to address the main premise: Today's players playing in the 60s.  Face it, a 6'4", 360 lb OL of today could not block any DL from the 60s, because he could not catch them.  Today, some 5-star huge OLs run a 5.3 in the 40.

I think you're wrong on that point. But imagine the opposite. Imagine a 6'5" 270 freak who runs a 4.5 40 at DE against some of those tiny little offensive lineman from the 50s.

There would be some seriously franked up quarterbacks. LOL

[thirrdegreetusker]

Of course, that isn't to say that the players from back then , couldn't have taken advantage of the newer technologies to become bigger and faster themselves, at least to a point.

Exactly

Some of you that are students of American sports have read Vince Lombardi's "Run to Daylight". In that book, Lombardi recalled that he called BS! when told that the Lions had a young defensive tackle who was 6'5", 300, and ran the 100-yard dash in 10 seconds flat. Lombardi was totally dismissive......until he saw the man in person. Kid was 6'5, 300, flat belly.

Later traded to the Rams, where he was a member of the legendary Fearsome Foursome.............Roger Brown.

[mizzouman]

If you want to compare one player to another player in different eras, you have to compare them as to how they dominated the game when they played.

I think that Wilt Chamberlain dominated the game more than any other player including Jordan.  Here's a guy that scored 100 pts in a game, averaged 50 pts a game and single handily had some rules of the game changed just because of him.

So, who is the best player all time in the NBA???  Give me Chamberlain.

[HappyHogFan]

If you want to compare one player to another player in different eras, you have to compare them as to how they dominated the game when they played.

I think that Wilt Chamberlain dominated the game more than any other player including Jordan.  Here's a guy that scored 100 pts in a game, averaged 50 pts a game and single handily had some rules of the game changed just because of him.

So, who is the best player all time in the NBA???  Give me Chamberlain.

No, sorry. The answer to that question is and always will be Jordan. Why? Because Jordan not only did what he did, but he made the players around him better. Oh, and the titles.

Another way to look at it.

How would Wilt in his prime have stacked up against Shaq in his prime? Shaq would have killed Wilt.

Jordan vs Lebron (for instance)? What a matchup, with Jordan coming out on top IMHO.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Imagine a 6'5" 270 freak who runs a 4.5 40 at DE against some of those tiny little offensive lineman from the 50s.

You just described David "Deacon" Jones to a "T". Guys who are 6'5, 270, and run 4.5 are killing QBs today, too. I fail to see the difference.

[thirrdegreetusker]

How would Wilt in his prime have stacked up against Shaq in his prime? Shaq would have killed Wilt.

From the interwebs

Wilt was a bona fide athletic freak.The 7'2" goliath ran a sub 11 second 100 yard dash and also threw the shot put 56 feet. Despite competing and excelling in both sprinting and throwing his best events were not surprisingly the jumping events as Chamberlain triple jumped in excess of 50 feet and successfully won the Big 8 Conference high jumping competition three years in a row

Wilt held the distinction of being the last Big 7 high jump champion in 1957, clearing 6-5 in that competition. He jumped higher (at least 6-6 at the '57 KU Relays, 2nd), but not sure of PR. He also "hop, skipped, and jumped" 45-9 to finish 3rd at KU Relays that year. Would have loved to seen that body triple jumping, wouldn't you? Heard on pretty good authority that he could throw the shot as far in practice (or maybe further) than the low to mid 50 foot throwers at KU (some guys named Al Oerter and Bill Neider), and that he ran 49.0 quarter in baggy sweats (were there any other kind back then?). By any measure, Wilt was one helluvan athlete.

"Wilt is not a one-sport man, either. At Overbrook High School in Philly, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 in 49.0 seconds and the 880 in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, broad jumped 22 feet."


I forget, how many college high-jump titles did Shaq win?

[HappyHogFan]

You just described David "Deacon" Jones to a "T". Guys who are 6'5, 270, and run 4.5 are killing QBs today, too. I fail to see the difference.

I'm saying those smaller o linemen from the day would have zero chance of stopping these kind of guys.

[thirrdegreetusker]

I see some of these guys two and three years away from football and many of them are back down in the 250 pound range.

....or 550

[thirrdegreetusker]

I'm saying those smaller o linemen from the day would have zero chance of stopping these kind of guys.

It's technique; same was a WR today blocks a LB............

[bennyl08]

What's the time frame here? If we send the current Seahawks team to 1965 (50 years ago is no longer in the 50's...), how long do they have before they play the teams of that era?

If we are talking about a month, I think today's team going back in time would far a good bit better than yesteryear's team getting a month to prepare for today's.

Now, if we give them a year to train in the crossover era's, I still think the newer team would do better in the olden days than vice versa.

[HappyHogFan]

It's technique; same was a WR today blocks a LB............

What technique is going to allow a 6'2" 200 lb man to stop a 6'5" 270 lb man?

[Mike Irwin]

No, sorry. The answer to that question is and always will be Jordan. Why? Because Jordan not only did what he did, but he made the players around him better. Oh, and the titles.

Another way to look at it.

How would Wilt in his prime have stacked up against Shaq in his prime? Shaq would have killed Wilt.

Jordan vs Lebron (for instance)? What a matchup, with Jordan coming out on top IMHO.

That's nonsense.

[HappyHogFan]

That's nonsense.

Yeah , he wouldn't have literally killed him.

[bennyl08]

Glad I drafted Aaron Hernandez in fantasy football a few years back. He literally killed it that year.

[Michael D Huff AIA]

Shaq would make Wilt his bitch.  That would not be a contest.  Shaq had Wilt by about 50 lbs., and played a game that was way more physical than the one that Wilt played.  Did Wilt ever play another center that was even near his height?  Not often.   Shaq played a 7 footer every night.  The league has those all over the place; in 1960 they didn't.  This is why Wilt averaged over 50 points a game for that season and got 100 in a game.  Bill Russell is the only one that was close to that size, and he was a beanpole.

There are a few statistics that are used now like PER (Player Efficiency Rating) and WS (Win Shares) that might be able to clear up some of the gray areas between eras as these statistics take into consideration the player vs. the competition from that time period.  It would clear up who was better in their day, but would only give discussion points to comparison across time periods.

[Theolesnort]

I am sorry but Shaq was not near the athlete Wilt was. Shaq was great because of his size and strength not his mobility which was OK with the size he had. Wilt coasted to many times because he didn't feel challenged enough. Sometimes. no really a lot of times Bill Russell would dominate him and make him look foolish well......... until Wilt got mad and then Bill would be toast until Wilt got his anger out of his system. They had a very strange rivalry but no question Wilt was the best when he was engaged in the game but if he let down just a little with Russell he would pay the price. I saw it happen a lot. Some old time boxing trainers and experts say Wilt could have been the best at what ever he went into as a athlete including if he had tried to be Heavy Weight Champion of the World he could have and would have been. Is that the truth? I dunno but he was a incredible athlete that stands out above just about anyone.

[Torqued pork]

From Wiki

Wilt was a bona fide athletic freak.The 7'2" goliath ran a sub 11 second 100 yard dash and also threw the shot put 56 feet. Despite competing and excelling in both sprinting and throwing his best events were not surprisingly the jumping events as Chamberlain triple jumped in excess of 50 feet and successfully won the Big 8 Conference high jumping competition three years in a row

Wilt held the distinction of being the last Big 7 high jump champion in 1957, clearing 6-5 in that competition. He jumped higher (at least 6-6 at the '57 KU Relays, 2nd), but not sure of PR. He also "hop, skipped, and jumped" 45-9 to finish 3rd at KU Relays that year. Would have loved to seen that body triple jumping, wouldn't you? Heard on pretty good authority that he could throw the shot as far in practice (or maybe further) than the low to mid 50 foot throwers at KU (some guys named Al Oerter and Bill Neider), and that he ran 49.0 quarter in baggy sweats (were there any other kind back then?). By any measure, Wilt was one helluvan athlete.

"Wilt is not a one-sport man, either. At Overbrook High School in Philly, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 in 49.0 seconds and the 880 in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, broad jumped 22 feet."


I forget, how many college high-jump titles did Shaq win?

Wilt was the most gifted athlete in my lifetime, unfortunately most just remember him for his basketball greatness.

[Mike Irwin]

Shaq was slow footed and couldn't shoot. In the NBA he would park himself just outside the lane and in a series of movements that consisted largely of him banging his big butt into a defender he was allowed to back the man up until he could turn and dunk the ball or make a one foot layup.

At 6-8, Oliver Miller dominated him on the college level because Shaq was not allowed five seconds to fart around in the lane while trying to back over an opponent.

Wilt would have simply blocked his shot or taken the ball away from him while Shaq was trying to maneuver himself close enough to the basket to score.

On the other end of the floor there's no way Shaq could have stayed with him. Wilt would have head faked his lazy butt, put a spin on him and dunked on the other side of the rim.

[Theolesnort]

Shaq was slow footed and couldn't shoot. In the NBA he would park himself just outside the lane and in a series of movements that consisted largely of him banging his big butt into a defender he was allowed to back the man up until he could turn and dunk the ball or make a one foot layup.

At 6-8, Oliver Miller dominated him on the college level because Shaq was not allowed five seconds to fart around in the lane while trying to back over an opponent.

Wilt would have simply blocked his shot or taken the ball away from him while Shaq was trying to maneuver himself close enough to the basket to score.

On the other end of the floor there's no way Shaq could have stayed with him. Wilt would have head faked his lazy butt, put a spin on him and dunked on the other side of the rim.

Well I thought of this after I made my post. Think of Lebron James growing to 7 FT 2 IN all the while keeping his speed and agility and the other stuff he has. Would that be fair to the rest of the NBA players? Heck no, in a way he isn't fair even now.

[Mike Irwin]

I'll go along with the concept that athletes of today as a group are bigger stronger and faster than the guys 50 years ago. I don't think they're as tough but they are better athletes.

However elite athletes of that time would be elite athletes today.'

Muhammad Ali would dominate. Wilt would still be Wilt and Bob Hayes is still the fastest man to ever play football and probably the fastest man of all time.

Hayes ran a 10.0 100 meters on a cinder track in the 1960 Olympics. Put him on a mondo surface with modern training methods and modern shoes and it's been estimated that he would have run a sub 9.5. Faster than Usain Bolt and Bolt does not play football.

[PonderinHog]

The best then would be the best now and the best now would be the best then.

[whippersnapper]

I'd love to see a college team run the true wishbone.

[lefty08]

comparing eras

you cant

/thread

[Mike_e]

The only real difference size wise between people from forty or more years ago and now is the nutrition they get now.  Previously the only thing that they were fed was brest milk or cows milk and then straight to whatever they could get down from their families table.

Today even if they are nursed they still get formula and much better baby food.  Add to that untold amounts of growth hormones in the meats now days.

You can test this for yourselves by getting two puppies just after they've been weaned and feed one as usual and plenty of powdered cows milk to the feed of the other.

The one you've given the extra fats to will be up to 25 percent larger as an adult.

There are more freeks of nature now because there are more people now but the percentage of them to the rest of us is much the same.

So, people haven't changed the times have.

[urkillnmesmalls]

I'll go along with the concept that athletes of today as a group are bigger stronger and faster than the guys 50 years ago. I don't think they're as tough but they are better athletes.

However elite athletes of that time would be elite athletes today.'

Muhammad Ali would dominate. Wilt would still be Wilt and Bob Hayes is still the fastest man to ever play football and probably the fastest man of all time.

Hayes ran a 10.0 100 meters on a cinder track in the 1960 Olympics. Put him on a mondo surface with modern training methods and modern shoes and it's been estimated that he would have run a sub 9.5. Faster than Usain Bolt and Bolt does not play football.

This argument will never go away.  You said it all in the second sentence.  Whoever was elite then, would be elite now, because they would have access to all of the collective knowledge regarding specific training and nutrition. 

When I was playing, the LB's on the team were the kids who could last the longest in bull in the ring.  It was almost like being a gladiator, and if you were tough enough to withstand that, then you were mean enough to play LB.  Heck, the punters were out there doing the same thing as the lineman...nothing was specific.  Same in the weight room. 

Times are just so different that it's not even fair to compare them, but to suggest that the athletes today are infinitely better is ludicrous. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I'd love to see a college team run the true wishbone.

At least at the P-5 level, if you choose to run the true Wishbone offense, you better have three really good QB's of near equal and exceptional ability because you are almost certain to lose your starter, if not another along the way.

The defensive athletes that they would face are so much bigger, faster and quicker and the force (velocity and impact) of a hit can be so much greater than it was in the 1970's that someone is going to get hurt. Just do a search for video of Jack Mildren running the Wishbone, he took some major hits even for that time and was tough as nails, but he took a beating as an Option QB.

Now granted, if Jack Mildren had grown up in these times and was just now playing college football, he would be bigger, faster, quicker, just like everyone else. But as a true Wishbone QB he would have to execute and that means that in some instances, you are holding onto the ball until the last possible moment and then staying focused enough on making an accurate pitch that leads the RB (instead of thinking about protecting yourself), which also means giving up your body to whomever is zero'ed in on you. An unprotected hit. Air Force might be able to get away with this in the Mountain West, but it is a different animal in the P-5 conferences.

It was however, an exciting offense to watch at the time.

[Razorbacker79]

Shaq was slow footed and couldn't shoot. In the NBA he would park himself just outside the lane and in a series of movements that consisted largely of him banging his big butt into a defender he was allowed to back the man up until he could turn and dunk the ball or make a one foot layup.

At 6-8, Oliver Miller dominated him on the college level because Shaq was not allowed five seconds to fart around in the lane while trying to back over an opponent.

Wilt would have simply blocked his shot or taken the ball away from him while Shaq was trying to maneuver himself close enough to the basket to score.

On the other end of the floor there's no way Shaq could have stayed with him. Wilt would have head faked his lazy butt, put a spin on him and dunked on the other side of the rim.

When I read "Shaq would have killed Wilt." my first thought was, no, he couldn't even dominate Oliver Miller--Shaq would not even have held a candle to Wilt.  So thanks for confirming my thoughts on that, Mike.  I would also add that Big O was much smarter than Shaq, knowing how to draw fouls so that Shaq spent a lot of his time on the bench when LSU played Arkansas.  And I agree with most of the rest of your comments.

As far as players switching eras I'll just say this--talent is talent.  If you give the players from 50 years ago the same background of better nutrition and training, then I think the competition between the two eras would be pretty even.  I think the only advantage would be the modern era simply has more talent because of the larger population, as was pointed out earlier.  I think Mike said the older players were tougher and I agree with that, but that is also mostly a product of the environment of the time so I don't think it would be true if the backgrounds were the same.

So yes it's really unfair to compare.  Times really were different.  Just look at how many of the players in the '60's smoked.  We had a guy in high school that was a heck of a running back, but he was a heavy smoker and would have to be literally carried from the end zone after some amazing 80 plus yard runs so he quit football after his sophomore year.  It would be interesting to see how he would do if he had been born 20 years ago in another place.

[Mike Irwin]

I'm glad I was born when I was, otherwise I'd never had a chance to see Bob Hayes in his prime. I first saw him in a bowl game in the early 60's. Hayes was a slot back mostly running pass routes but they'd hand the ball to him as well, with devastating results to the other team.

I was watching this game with my grandfather. One play in particular left me
tongue-tied. Hayes took the ball on a poorly disguised sweep. By the time he started to turn the corner it looked like half the other team's defense was lined up waiting for him.

Suddenly he exploded like a rocket was attached to his butt. Those defenders became nothing more than stationary objects. He blew right by them for a TD.

Sadly there was no instant replay back then. When my dad and my uncle came into the room a few minutes later I was babbling like an idiot trying to explain what I had seen. My dad turned to his dad and asked, "Is he making stuff up again?" "Not this time," my grandfather quickly answered. "I've never seen anything like that. In fact I'm not sure what I saw. It happened too fast."

[(notOM)Rebel123]

comparing eras

you cant

/thread

Sure you can...
In 1964, Sandy Koufax had an era of 1.74. In 2014, Clayton Kershaw had an era of 1.77. 

[TheRazorbackGuy]

I'll go along with the concept that athletes of today as a group are bigger stronger and faster than the guys 50 years ago. I don't think they're as tough but they are better athletes.

However elite athletes of that time would be elite athletes today.'

Muhammad Ali would dominate. Wilt would still be Wilt and Bob Hayes is still the fastest man to ever play football and probably the fastest man of all time.

Hayes ran a 10.0 100 meters on a cinder track in the 1960 Olympics. Put him on a mondo surface with modern training methods and modern shoes and it's been estimated that he would have run a sub 9.5. Faster than Usain Bolt and Bolt does not play football.

Sure MikeIrwin, Graham Otto would be elite today and Jerry Jones would be an NFL caliber OL. LOL! Players are WAAAAAAAAY better today.

[Mike Irwin]

Sure MikeIrwin, Graham Otto would be elite today and Jerry Jones would be an NFL caliber OL. LOL! Players are WAAAAAAAAY better today.

Did you ever bother to read what you are responding to ?

I'll go along with the concept that athletes of today as a group are bigger stronger and faster than the guys 50 years ago. I don't think they're as tough but they are better athletes.

However elite athletes of that time would be elite athletes today.'

Muhammad Ali would dominate. Wilt would still be Wilt and Bob Hayes is still the fastest man to ever play football and probably the fastest man of all time.

Hayes ran a 10.0 100 meters on a cinder track in the 1960 Olympics. Put him on a mondo surface with modern training methods and modern shoes and it's been estimated that he would have run a sub 9.5. Faster than Usain Bolt and Bolt does not play football.

Otto Graham (not Graham Otto) was born in 1921 and played in the 40's. Not what I had in mind when I made the Bob Hayes reference. Also I don't think anyone with a brain would consider Jerry Jones to be an elite athlete of any era.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

Otto Graham (not Graham Otto) was born in 1921 and played in the 40's. Not what I had in mind when I made the Bob Hayes reference. Also I don't think anyone with a brain would consider Jerry Jones to be an elite athlete of any era.

MikeIrwin, I bet Red Grange was a site to see on the football field as the Galloping Ghost

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Sure MikeIrwin, Graham Otto would be elite today and Jerry Jones would be an NFL caliber OL. LOL! Players are WAAAAAAAAY better today.

It seems like that what you lack is long term perspective, not having had a chance to see eras change, maybe more than once. You have no idea what athletes of the past might have been if they had the advantages of the better nutrition, strength and conditioning and having been fed fast food their entire lives that were packed with steroids that added to their growth by those who produce the food....farmers, ranchers and processors, that they have in the modern era. Because the past is the past, we will never know and will always be open to speculation. But it is a fact that kids in the modern era have definitely benefitted from all of these things.

[Biggus Piggus]

Here's the only way I compare different time periods. Look at how that team stacked up in its time. How well did that team execute all the program-building fundamentals -- competing for talent, building depth, teaching players how to work together in the offensive and defensive systems, attention to detail, all that. Did the team excel against others in its time? That's the only challenge that matters. You can't take two teams in different times and compare them head to head. That's nonsense.

[Biggus Piggus]

Shaq would make Wilt his bitch.  That would not be a contest.  Shaq had Wilt by about 50 lbs., and played a game that was way more physical than the one that Wilt played.  Did Wilt ever play another center that was even near his height?  Not often.   Shaq played a 7 footer every night.  The league has those all over the place; in 1960 they didn't.  This is why Wilt averaged over 50 points a game for that season and got 100 in a game.  Bill Russell is the only one that was close to that size, and he was a beanpole.

This is hilariously bad. No. Not even close to right.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

It seems like that what you lack is long term perspective, not having had a chance to see eras change, maybe more than once. You have no idea what athletes of the past might have been if they had the advantages of the better nutrition, strength and conditioning and having been fed fast food their entire lives that were packed with steroids that added to their growth by those who produce the food....farmers, ranchers and processors, that they have in the modern era. Because the past is the past, we will never know and will always be open to speculation. But it is a fact that kids in the modern era have definitely benefitted from all of these things.

They also are specialized for positions at such a young age. You got to look at genetics too. Guys who played before have sons with their same genetics tohave the ability to play professionally. Also coaching from pee wee level up to the NFL is far better. Basketball its even better now than ever. You have guys knowing how to be role players in middle school.and then you have AAU where players play against the best high school players nation wide. The coaching and player development is at another level. Only sport that I think old timers would still be stars today is baseball. The ability to hit the baseball where others can't get to it is a skill that transcends the times. Guys are born with a 95 mph fastball or they are not. I think the same thing applied in baseball over 100 years ago. I don't think your average player was as good as today in baseball though. Football and Basketball are at the best level it has ever been though. I think your average NBA guy today would have been a superstar 30 years ago. Football also guys like Deion Sanders didn't try to tackle but were still great. If its like todayDeion Sanders would know how to tackle before he got in college bcuz coaching and development are just better.

[Mike Irwin]

MikeIrwin, I bet Red Grange was a site to see on the football field as the Galloping Ghost

Do your parents know you're using their computer?

[TheRazorbackGuy]

Do your parents know you're using their computer?

Mike, I'm just messing with you. I know you didn't see Red Grange. I doubt anyone on hogville did.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Mike, I'm just messing with you. I know you didn't see Red Grange. I doubt anyone on hogville did.

Here's your chance to get the whole story. Worth the watch if not for anything other than the history of college football and one of the most important players of the time and one of the most humble men who achieved great notoriety.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=281rzIXpvkM

[TheRazorbackGuy]

Here's your chance to get the whole story. Worth the watch if not for anything other than the history of college football and one of the most important players of the time and one of the most humble men who achieved great notoriety.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=281rzIXpvkM

+1 that was a good one MuskogeeHog

[MuskogeeHogFan]

+1 that was a good one MuskogeeHog

Who knew? Everyone thought that he was just a great RB, but few knew the whole story. What might he have been like if given all of the opportunities for better nutrition, strength and conditioning programs, player development and better coaching as players have today? Who knew that the guy was a track star before being a big time college football player?

And yet another player who was taken advantage of by those who wanted to benefit from his stature as a player. Just goes to show that you can't put a price on good advisors who protect you from those who wish to take advantage of your skills. A good lesson for many of the current athletes that want to go to the NFL.

[oldfart]

another factor besides the nutrition aspect is weight training. even into the mid 60's weight training was considered a no-no. the thought was that the player would get "muscle bound"  and lose their agility