Holtz Out at ESPN

[Mike Irwin]

Yes, and he was fired from both Arkansas and Dame, which made zero sense.

Makes complete sense to me. Historically coaches like Holtz were tolerated as long as they won big. Lou's old boss is a good example. Woody Hayes did all kinds of off the wall stuff which he got away with as long as he was winning 9-10 games a year and conference titles. When Ohio State stopped beating Michigan and started going to non New Year's Day bowl games they fired him.

[RedSkiesAtNightHog]

Lou is one of a kind. Very knowledgeable coach, but a poor recruiter. That's why he was fired here. JFB could tell the recruiting had gone south.

Lou coached at six colleges. At each college, he achieved his best record with a senior class he did not recruit.

When JFB stepped down from coaching, he left Lou Holtz one of the greatest collections of football talent ever seen on campus (Dan Hampton, Ron Calcagni, Jerry Eckwood, Ben Cowins, Steve Heim, Greg Kolenda, Jimmy Walker, Larry Jackson, Steve Little, Leotis Harris, Mark Lewis, Roland Sales, etc.....) Those players would win 30 games in the three seasons following JFBs retirement. With his own recruits, it took Lou four more years to win 30 games.

I have often wondered if Frank Broyles regretted retiring when he did after watching Lou use his recruits to pound Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl.  I think a great season like 1977 would have rejuvenated Broyles and he might have coached another 10 years. 

[Mike Irwin]

I have often wondered if Frank Broyles regretted retiring when he did after watching Lou use his recruits to pound Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl.  I think a great season like 1977 would have rejuvenated Broyles and he might have coached another 10 years.

Frank was smart enough to realize that coaching was starting to wear him out. He looked terrible those last two years. Bleary-eyed before and after practice. Plus, as he said, he didn't have a fire in his belly to win anymore.

He did the right thing.

[thirrdegreetusker]

I have often wondered if Frank Broyles regretted retiring when he did after watching Lou use his recruits to pound Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl.  I think a great season like 1977 would have rejuvenated Broyles and he might have coached another 10 years.

I always assumed that this moment was the best example of JFBs love for the UA. He KNEW what he had coming back. But he must have also known, "It's time to retire".

After the big years of 68 to 71 (36-8-1) the Hogs were down for several years. JFB and staff busted tail on the recruiting trail, and got us back to where we needed to be, talent-wise. Then he retired.

[HappyHogFan]

I always assumed that this moment was the best example of JFBs love for the UA. He KNEW what he had coming back. But he must have also known, "It's time to retire".

After the big years of 68 to 71 (36-8-1) the Hogs were down for several years. JFB and staff busted tail on the recruiting trail, and got us back to where we needed to be, talent-wise. Then he retired.

Which makes it all the odder that he had to be shoved out as AD. I mean it worked out well for us in the Long run (pun intended) but still

[Mike Irwin]

Which makes it all the odder that he had to be shoved out as AD. I mean it worked out well for us in the Long run (pun intended) but still

He liked being the AD more than being a coach. The hours are much better and the pressure...well there was no pressure. Frank ran the show until he got old. Dan Ferritor was the first to tell him no. That was in 87. After that Frank had to pick his battles. Then John White came long and White wanted him out. That's when the trouble started. Frank hooked up with some boosters on the BOT to keep White at bay. Those boosters got more involved in athletics as a result which was a disaster.

That soap opera is over. Be be glad it is. Those were bad times.

[hogcard1964]

Makes complete sense to me. Historically coaches like Holtz were tolerated as long as they won big. Lou's old boss is a good example. Woody Hayes did all kinds of off the wall stuff which he got away with as long as he was winning 9-10 games a year and conference titles. When Ohio State stopped beating Michigan and started going to non New Year's Day bowl games they fired him.

No, I understand why he was fired from both Arkansas and Dame.  I just don't understand why the love for Dame and the disdain for Arkansas.  Hell, I think he has a softer spot for Minnesota and Ohio St. than he does for the Hogs.

[Mike Irwin]

No, I understand why he was fired from both Arkansas and Dame.  I just don't understand why the love for Dame and the disdain for Arkansas.  Hell, I think he has a softer spot for Minnesota and Ohio St. than he does for the Hogs.

He didn't like living here.

[hogcard1964]

He didn't like living here.

Ever been to Ohio or Indiana?

[Mike Irwin]

Ever been around Lou? Much of his life has been spent in the northeast or what used to be called the upper midwest.

Born   January 6, 1937 (age 78)
Follansbee, West Virginia
Playing career:
1956–1959 Kent State
Position(s)   Linebacker

Coaching career (HC unless noted)
Iowa (assistant)
William & Mary (assistant)
Connecticut (assistant)
South Carolina (assistant)
Ohio State (assistant)
William & Mary
NC State
New York Jets
Arkansas
Minnesota
Notre Dame
South Carolina

[hogcard1964]

Good

I hope he goes away, enjoys the east/upper midwest, as well as his retirement.

[HappyHogFan]

No, I understand why he was fired from both Arkansas and Dame.  I just don't understand why the love for Dame and the disdain for Arkansas.  Hell, I think he has a softer spot for Minnesota and Ohio St. than he does for the Hogs.

He has no disdain for Arkansas. Mike Irwin obviously holds a grudge against the man, and that's fine, no one is liked by everyone, but by nearly every other account Lou is a good man, and he himself said in an interview that he never had a bad word to say about us.

[Inhogswetrust]

He has no disdain for Arkansas. Mike Irwin obviously holds a grudge against the man, and that's fine, no one is liked by everyone, but by nearly every other account Lou is a good man, and he himself said in an interview that he never had a bad word to say about us.

Amazing you think you can speak for Mike AND Lou at the same time......................

Mike as a media rep had to deal with Lou and others regularly. I know some players here that played for Lou. He is NOT as likable as he appears on TV. In this instance I'll trust Mike's evaluation AND the players I know that played for him over you.

[HappyHogFan]

Amazing you think you can speak for Mike AND Lou at the same time......................

Mike as a media rep had to deal with Lou and others regularly. I know some players here that played for Lou. He is NOT as likable as he appears on TV. In this instance I'll trust Mike's evaluation AND the players I know that played for him over you.

LOL come on now, show me one single college football coach who has a national championship whos players say "oh yeah he was a nice guy"


PS I never spoke for anyone but myself either.

[hogcard1964]

He has no disdain for Arkansas. Mike Irwin obviously holds a grudge against the man, and that's fine, no one is liked by everyone, but by nearly every other account Lou is a good man, and he himself said in an interview that he never had a bad word to say about us.

I'm sorry, I simply don't believe that.

However, it doesn't bother me, as I have no use for very few of our prior coaches.  I dislike Holtz, Richardson and Petrino equally.

[HappyHogFan]

I'm sorry, I simply don't believe that.

However, it doesn't bother me, as I have no use for very few of our prior coaches.  I dislike Holtz, Richardson and Petrino equally.

Me to, which is to say not at all. I don't eve harbor any ill will towards Petrino at this point. Everything happens for a reason, and being angry at former coaches is a complete waste of time ad energy. Id rather enjoy our current programs.

[PorkRinds]

I'm sorry, I simply don't believe that.

However, it doesn't bother me, as I have no use for very few of our prior coaches.  I dislike Holtz, Richardson and Petrino equally.

How could you be upset with Richardson and Petrino equally?  That's some seriously misplaced disliking. Richardson, while he did make plenty of mistakes at the end, took us to a national champsionship, had us in the top of the rankings almost every year, multiple tournament wins, and still supports the program.  Petrino burned the program to the ground and then moved on to Louisville without thinking twice. 

[BorderPatrol]

He didn't like living here.

"It's not the end of the earth, but you can see it from there."

bp

[Inhogswetrust]

LOL come on now, show me one single college football coach who has a national championship whos players say "oh yeah he was a nice guy"


PS I never spoke for anyone but myself either.

You said "Mike obviously holds a grudge" which isn't the case since he is in the media AND he knows Lou and thus what kind of person he is. Therefore you in essence spoke for him in a way. There are THOUSANDS of players that have won NC's that speak very highly of their coach in both private AND public. As with ANY celebrity, or any person for that matter, their public persona and their private ones can be total opposites. You have to know that person directly OR those that deal with them to get the whole picture. There are a lot of people I don't particularly like yet that doesn't mean I hold a "grudge" against them. 

[HappyHogFan]

You said "Mike obviously holds a grudge" which isn't the case since he is in the media AND he knows Lou and thus what kind of person he is. Therefore you in essence spoke for him in a way. There are THOUSANDS of players that have won NC's that speak very highly of there coach in both private AND public. As with ANY celebrity, or any person for that matter, their public persona and their private ones can be total opposites. You have to know that person directly OR those that deal with them to get the whole picture. There are a lot of people I don't particularly like yet that doesn't mean I hold a "grudge" against them.

OH so every other media person loves Lou, but Mike thinks he is an [CENSORED], but Mike is the one who is telling us about the real Lou? Give me a break.

The guy posted his OPINION, which is fine, but every other media person's OPINION is that Lou is a good guy.

[hogcard1964]

How could you be upset with Richardson and Petrino equally?  That's some seriously misplaced disliking. Richardson, while he did make plenty of mistakes at the end, took us to a national champsionship, had us in the top of the rankings almost every year, multiple tournament wins, and still supports the program.  Petrino burned the program to the ground and then moved on to Louisville without thinking twice.

It's not important, but they both said and did some things that were despicable.  I'm not argueing against their skill set as coaches, since that can't be legitimately argued against.

I'm more confused with Holtz' obvious favoritism towards Dame as opposed to Arkansas.  ...since he was canned from both schools.

Btw, Petrino went to Western Kentucky, then Louisville.

[Mike Irwin]

OH so every other media person loves Lou, but Mike thinks he is an [CENSORED], but Mike is the one who is telling us about the real Lou? Give me a break.

The guy posted his OPINION, which is fine, but every other media person's OPINION is that Lou is a good guy.

Who is every other media person?

[hogcard1964]

Me to, which is to say not at all. I don't eve harbor any ill will towards Petrino at this point. Everything happens for a reason, and being angry at former coaches is a complete waste of time ad energy. Id rather enjoy our current programs.

...and that's also a very good and honorable perspective.

[Inhogswetrust]

OH so every other media person loves Lou, but Mike thinks he is an [CENSORED], but Mike is the one who is telling us about the real Lou? Give me a break.

The guy posted his OPINION, which is fine, but every other media person's OPINION is that Lou is a good guy.

I know some media people (but not Mike) and no it isn't for EVERY other media person...............Now you are trying to speak for "every other media person". I'm sure some like Lou and some don't BUT that is true of everyone. There never is a consensus of who is and isn't a good guy. All I know is the people I know that HAVE directly dealt with Lou do not speak highly of him.   

[Tusks]

I know some media people (but not Mike) and no it isn't for EVERY other media person...............Now you are trying to speak for "every other media person". I'm sure some like Lou and some don't BUT that is true of everyone. There never is a consensus of who is and isn't a good guy. All I know is the people I know that HAVE directly dealt with Lou do not speak highly of him.   

The only media member I know that would talk highly of Lou was Rick Schaffer and that's because he was PAID to talk highly of him.

[HotlantaHog]

Makes complete sense to me. Historically coaches like Holtz were tolerated as long as they won big. Lou's old boss is a good example. Woody Hayes did all kinds of off the wall stuff which he got away with as long as he was winning 9-10 games a year and conference titles. When Ohio State stopped beating Michigan and started going to non New Year's Day bowl games they fired him.

Well, they fired him after he slugged a player of the opposing team on national TV and it was a national embarrassment, even in that era ... Maybe he would have survived that if he were winning more, maybe ...

[oldhawg]

Well, they fired him after he slugged a player of the opposing team on national TV and it was a national embarrassment, even in that era ... Maybe he would have survived that if he were winning more, maybe ...

Give the man a break.  He was old.  He thought it was of his own players.

[Mike Irwin]

Well, they fired him after he slugged a player of the opposing team on national TV and it was a national embarrassment, even in that era ... Maybe he would have survived that if he were winning more, maybe ...

If Ohio State had been playing for the national title that year you can bet he would have survived. Ohio State would have issued an apology from Woody (written, not spoken) and arranged some sort of phony punishment for him but he would not have been fired.

[thirrdegreetusker]

If Ohio State had been playing for the national title that year you can bet he would have survived. Ohio State would have issued an apology from Woody (written, not spoken) and arranged some sort of phony punishment for him but he would not have been fired.

Correct.

But, instead, OhioSt went 7-3-1 in the regular season, and was losing to a Danny Ford-coached Clemson team in the '78 Gator bowl when Woody lost it. 

[oldfart]

i have a friend who was an assistant coach on Holtz's staff. He never said a word while Holtz was here and for a few years after.. but later he said one (of several ) problems was that Holtz was always cracking jokes and sometimes the players would crack back and find it wasnt a joke and therefore wind up in his doghouse. He also said that Holtz hated reruiting.. they would say coach we have a group of really great recruits coming in this weekend and he would say sorry im giving a motivational talk in saudi arabia or someplace..  the recruiting was paying the price...there were also an inordinately large number of players who "decided to drop football their senior year" because they could not stand it anymore he said.

[oldfart]

Correct.

But, instead, OhioSt went 7-3-1 in the regular season, and was losing to a Danny Ford-coached Clemson team in the '78 Gator bowl when Woody lost it. 

that was one of the most surreal things to see happening on the sidelines... almost up to the Dicky Moegle tackle by Tommy Lewis in the Cotton Bowl

[hogcard1964]

Correct.

But, instead, OhioSt went 7-3-1 in the regular season, and was losing to a Danny Ford-coached Clemson team in the '78 Gator bowl when Woody lost it.

That Ohio st. team the following year was really tough. Art Schlister was the QB.

[Porked Tongue]

That Ohio st. team the following year was really tough. Art Schlister was the QB.

I never could win a bet on his games.

[hogcard1964]

I never could win a bet on his games.

He sure could.   

[Overtheroadtruckdriver]

He was a play caller on the order of Bobby Petrino but unfortunately similar to Petrino in recruiting as well. I'm not a psychologist and I try not to play one on TV but anyone who spends time around Holtz can see that he has some sort of emotional disorder. I've seen him tear into people who'd done nothing more than be in his line of sight.

Maybe he got his butt beat a lot as a kid. People like that tend to develop a God complex when put in positions of authority as adults. I've worked for a couple of them.

KaPOW! 

[Overtheroadtruckdriver]

OH so every other media person loves Lou, but Mike thinks he is an [CENSORED], but Mike is the one who is telling us about the real Lou? Give me a break.

The guy posted his OPINION, which is fine, but every other media person's OPINION is that Lou is a good guy.

I don't personally know even ONE media member who has good things to say about Holtz.  I'm with mike on this one, boys. 

[Paul]

I worked under a guy in Hot Springs who counted himself as one of Lou's few friends in Arkansas.  He claimed to have talked Lou into taking the Tonight Show appearance because initially Lou was afraid it would make Broyles jealous.  He said that Broyles & Holtz could barely  stand to talk to each other because each had such huge egos which needed to be fed constantly.

[Tusks]

I worked under a guy in Hot Springs who counted himself as one of Lou's few friends in Arkansas.  He claimed to have talked Lou into taking the Tonight Show appearance because initially Lou was afraid it would make Broyles jealous.  He said that Broyles & Holtz could barely  stand to talk to each other because each had such huge egos which needed to be fed constantly.

oh the good ole days of razorback football.  I'm with 'mike I' on this one.  CBB wants to coach and win and long wants CBB to coach and win.  amazing how many years it took for that to happen, kind of like actually doing the mission statement.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

I've seen him tear into people who'd done nothing more than be in his line of sight.

Maybe he got his butt beat a lot as a kid. People like that tend to develop a God complex when put in positions of authority as adults. I've worked for a couple of them.

I've worked for some field-grade officers that are like that. Once they have that reticle on your chest the let loose with a burst of HE to motivate the people around you. If it's your day, then it's your day. LTG Honore was like that. I saw him destroy a full-bird Colonel once over the radio with everyone listening. I have a million-and-one Honore stories.

[hammer66]

If you've spent meaningful time around him and that is your opinion of him, fine. I suspect that you don't know him well, if at all.

I've seen him trash people for no apparent reason more times than I can remember. I will say this. He was an equal opportunity jerk. He would tear into a money booster as fast as he'd rip a student manager. The problem I had was, in these instances you could tell he was just in a bad mood and he was in a bad mood a lot.

This is not not personal with me. Lou only insulted me once in six years. It was not that big of a deal when it happened probably because I'd seen him do far worse to others.

I totally lost respect for him the day he told John McDonnell that he didn't know a thing about pressure because he didn't coach a real sport like football.

What did McDonnell to to warrant such a comment? They were standing in a buffet line at a downtown Ft. Worth hotel. The track team had just won an indoor meet at the Tarrant County Convention Center down the street. The football team was going to play TCU the next day. McDonnell said to Holtz, "Good luck tomorrow coach." That was his crime.


Lou has a screw loose.

I witnessed Lou tear into skip once.
I was in a room where both of them were in as well, skip asked his father something (not sure what it was) and Lou just went off on him. I mean screaming as loud as he could. Lou looked like he had murder in his eyes. The entire room (about 30 people) went dead silent. Skip just stood there and looked like an abused kid, it was really sad. I disliked Lou ever since.
I have no idea what was said or the history of the 2 but I just couldn't believe somebody would react like that for any reason other than maybe a life threatening situation.
BTW, this was in '92 or '93. Skip was grown.