UA Golf Team What's going on?

[UsACoL1004]

I saw today online that former UoA freshman (Buddy Wilkins) who transfered to UoA Fort Smith last semester won a US Open qualifer in Hot Springs on Monday with a final round of 66. Which puts him into another qualifying round in St. Louis next month.  Anyone know why we can't keep these guys a Razorback?  Just curious to know what's going on with our Golf Program?

  http://www.usopen.com/news/qualifying/local_results.html

[RebelHawg]

I have a few friends that used to play for the golf team and they all say the same thing......the coach!

[UsACoL1004]

Does the coach not recognize talent??

[EArHog]

Freshman player from West Memphis left the team to play for Memphis State.  I didn't hear anything about a coach contributing to that change.  I'll keep my ears open for anything along that line. 

[hogwild84]

I know some players on the team. It IS the coach. He makes them get up at 5:30 in the morning to workout and do cardio, like running bleachers. Golfers running bleachers? Golf is a sport, but it doesn't take the endurance of a sport like soccer or football.  The kid from Memphis, Jordan Payne, was a top 25 golfer in the nation coming out of high school.  He's not athletic looking at all but can PLAY. He for one was definitely not satisfied with all the calisthenics.  This coach needs to grow up and put the golfers where they really need to be: on the golf course.

[hogsanity]

I know some players on the team. It IS the coach. He makes them get up at 5:30 in the morning to workout and do cardio, like running bleachers. Golfers running bleachers? Golf is a sport, but it doesn't take the endurance of a sport like soccer or football.  The kid from Memphis, Jordan Payne, was a top 25 golfer in the nation coming out of high school.  He's not athletic looking at all but can PLAY. He for one was definitely not satisfied with all the calisthenics.  This coach needs to grow up and put the golfers where they really need to be: on the golf course.

If that why they left, good.  Sounds like whiny country club brats to me.  Your idea of a golfer is wht used to be, but look at the new breed.  I think Tiger stays in pretty good shape. 

I played golf for Westark (now UAFS) in the late 80's and I can tell you that walking 18 or more everyday, can wear you out.  Not exhaust you, but if you are just a little tired then you are a little off, and a little off in golf is bad. 

[idochog]

The players need their rest so they will have Fresh Legs.

[Sao Ming]

I know some players on the team. It IS the coach. He makes them get up at 5:30 in the morning to workout and do cardio, like running bleachers. Golfers running bleachers? Golf is a sport, but it doesn't take the endurance of a sport like soccer or football.  The kid from Memphis, Jordan Payne, was a top 25 golfer in the nation coming out of high school.  He's not athletic looking at all but can PLAY. He for one was definitely not satisfied with all the calisthenics.  This coach needs to grow up and put the golfers where they really need to be: on the golf course.

I have to agree with you - golf is not an endurance sport and requires less conditioning than any other sport I can think of.  Let's put it in Football context.  When's the last time you saw a place kicker run drills with the rest of the team?  If Tejada signs, he won't and neither do guys like Vanderjagt or Vijay Singh.  John Daly dang sure didn't (and wouldn't, and I dont think he's a country club prick)

[hogsanity]

I know some players on the team. It IS the coach. He makes them get up at 5:30 in the morning to workout and do cardio, like running bleachers. Golfers running bleachers? Golf is a sport, but it doesn't take the endurance of a sport like soccer or football.  The kid from Memphis, Jordan Payne, was a top 25 golfer in the nation coming out of high school.  He's not athletic looking at all but can PLAY. He for one was definitely not satisfied with all the calisthenics.  This coach needs to grow up and put the golfers where they really need to be: on the golf course.

I have to agree with you - golf is not an endurance sport and requires less conditioning than any other sport I can think of.  Let's put it in Football context.  When's the last time you saw a place kicker run drills with the rest of the team?  If Tejada signs, he won't and neither do guys like Vanderjagt or Vijay Singh.  John Daly dang sure didn't (and wouldn't, and I dont think he's a country club prick)

Vijay Singh is known as the hardest worker on tour.  Between workouts and hitting balls he probably workls more than anyone except maybe Tiger. 

There are some Fb players who dont work out much either, as there are in all sports, but it does not mean the coach is wrong to expect it of them

[Sao Ming]

I know some players on the team. It IS the coach. He makes them get up at 5:30 in the morning to workout and do cardio, like running bleachers. Golfers running bleachers? Golf is a sport, but it doesn't take the endurance of a sport like soccer or football.  The kid from Memphis, Jordan Payne, was a top 25 golfer in the nation coming out of high school.  He's not athletic looking at all but can PLAY. He for one was definitely not satisfied with all the calisthenics.  This coach needs to grow up and put the golfers where they really need to be: on the golf course.

I have to agree with you - golf is not an endurance sport and requires less conditioning than any other sport I can think of.  Let's put it in Football context.  When's the last time you saw a place kicker run drills with the rest of the team?  If Tejada signs, he won't and neither do guys like Vanderjagt or Vijay Singh.  John Daly dang sure didn't (and wouldn't, and I dont think he's a country club prick)

Vijay Singh is known as the hardest worker on tour.  Between workouts and hitting balls he probably workls more than anyone except maybe Tiger. 

There are some Fb players who dont work out much either, as there are in all sports, but it does not mean the coach is wrong to expect it of them

FWIW, Vijay's workout's do not consist of conditioning to the likes that alledgedly these guys are subjected to but I get your point.  Parrt of my point was actually yours, I just didnt take it that far.  Anyone who can hit 500-1000 balls a day is damn well conditioned, only differently.  Running stairs doesnt seem like much of a golf movement in my book but again that is opinion.

[Rzrbk63]

of chances to produce for the Hogs.  Every time he was allowed to participate in a tournament, he would finish near the very bottom.  In fact, I know of at least one tourney where he played that he finished dead last.  He simply did not get it done while he was here.  He is a good kid and a good golfer, but couldnt make the lineup here.  Our team had a disappointing season this year, but I am not sure it is the coaches fault.  Both coaches do a very good job and I can promise you that a little exercise does not hurt the golf team.  As mentioned earlier, Tiger and Vijay are both work out addicts, and they seem to do okay. 

[bigred7987]

any sport where u can smoke a cigar or drink while playing....isn't too athletic imo

[Factual Fiction]

When it comes to working out in golf these days, John Daly is an exception. Even Darren Clarke works out now. If those pansies can't hack it then send their fresh little legs over to Stan Heath.

[UsACoL1004]

of chances to produce for the Hogs.  Every time he was allowed to participate in a tournament, he would finish near the very bottom.  In fact, I know of at least one tourney where he played that he finished dead last.  He simply did not get it done while he was here.  He is a good kid and a good golfer, but couldn't make the lineup here.  Our team had a disappointing season this year, but I am not sure it is the coaches fault.  Both coaches do a very good job and I can promise you that a little exercise does not hurt the golf team.  As mentioned earlier, Tiger and Vi jay are both work out addicts, and they seem to do okay. 

I"m not trying to put an example of the program on one former golfer.  I'm just trying to basically figure out why our golf team isn't competing on a national level.  I"m trying to figure out why some golfers go and leave and succeed at other colleges?  Why not keep them here and work with them and discover their talent.  They do have one of the best facilities albeit difficult to practice at.  I, personally, don't follow the UoA golf team, but I do get curious around the US Open time and see who will be the next amateur that qualifies and does really well.  That is what made me start this topic.

[12under]

i am very well connected with this situation and there has been alot of friction between some players and the coaches.  some players seem to not know which way they like it, coaches being all over them all the time or coaches stepping back a little and letting players have a more free reign over their game.  they have already lost two players from last year's team and are rumored to lose a couple more.

[hogfankb]

i am very well connected with this situation and there has been alot of friction between some players and the coaches.  some players seem to not know which way they like it, coaches being all over them all the time or coaches stepping back a little and letting players have a more free reign over their game.  they have already lost two players from last year's team and are rumored to lose a couple more.

Is it that the coach doesn't change his style of coaching to fit the way the players react? I have always been the type of player in any sport that wants suggestions on how to make my game better. Technical stuff. But i don't need someone kissing my a$$ or yelling at me constantly. Believe me I know when I am playing bad so I don't need to hear it from a coach cause I am being twice as hard on myself. And I don't need a coach telling me I am doing fine when I know I am playing like crap or the mistake I just made wasn't a big deal.

I think golf would be one of the hardest sports around to coach. everyone has a different swing and a lot of people don't want someone telling them how they are doing something wrong. If these guys can't take criticsm or some work when obviously what they are doing isnt working then good ridence.

[Extra Point]

If Tejada signs, he won't and neither do guys like Vanderjagt or Vijay Singh.

You are SADLY mistaken about Vijay.  He not only works out religiously, but practices as much or more than anyone on tour.

Golf can be a VERY demanding endurance sport.

Football guys play for 12 seconds and then get 20-30 seconds rest.  And then they sit on the bench for 20 minutes.  Let's not go overboard and claim that football players HAVE to be in SO much better shape than golfers.

I challenge you to play a round of golf in 3.5 hours walking and dealing with the rigors of the mental game.  Football requires 1/10 of the mental toughness of a professional golfer.

[12under]

i am very well connected with this situation and there has been alot of friction between some players and the coaches.  some players seem to not know which way they like it, coaches being all over them all the time or coaches stepping back a little and letting players have a more free reign over their game.  they have already lost two players from last year's team and are rumored to lose a couple more.

Is it that the coach doesn't change his style of coaching to fit the way the players react? I have always been the type of player in any sport that wants suggestions on how to make my game better. Technical stuff. But i don't need someone kissing my a$$ or yelling at me constantly. Believe me I know when I am playing bad so I don't need to hear it from a coach cause I am being twice as hard on myself. And I don't need a coach telling me I am doing fine when I know I am playing like crap or the mistake I just made wasn't a big deal.

I think golf would be one of the hardest sports around to coach. everyone has a different swing and a lot of people don't want someone telling them how they are doing something wrong. If these guys can't take criticsm or some work when obviously what they are doing isnt working then good ridence.

i agree that this is one of the toughtest sports to coach because it is so individual and mental.  coach ketchum has tried alot of things to get them to play well, and it seems that some players just arent responding to any of his methods.  it seems to me that some players  whine about just about anything.  some players that have transferred did so for reasons that ketchum couldnt control (homesick and girlfriend).

[yraciv]

Freshman player from West Memphis left the team to play for Memphis State.  I didn't hear anything about a coach contributing to that change.  I'll keep my ears open for anything along that line. 

I wasn't aware they still call it Memphis State.

[hogfankb]

Aren't these guys getting their education paid for to play golf? The only course I could afford in college was the $4 green fee at the Greens. They are getting paid to play The Blessings. They should quit their bitchin, work hard, and try and enjoy hitting golf balls fora living.

[Extra Point]

Aren't these guys getting their education paid for to play golf? The only course I could afford in college was the $4 green fee at the Greens. They are getting paid to play The Blessings. They should quit their bitchin, work hard, and try and enjoy hitting golf balls fora living.

Maybe their aspirations transcend a mere degree.  Every college golf friend I knew wanted to play on tour.  This is not a sidebar activity to them.

One of my friends makes pretty good bank on the European Tour.  He made it there by developing his game in college.

[Extra Point]

Aren't these guys getting their education paid for to play golf? The only course I could afford in college was the $4 green fee at the Greens. They are getting paid to play The Blessings. They should quit their bitchin, work hard, and try and enjoy hitting golf balls fora living.

Maybe their aspirations transcend a mere degree.  Every college golf friend I knew wanted to play on tour.  This is not a sidebar activity to them.

One of my friends makes pretty good bank on the European Tour.  He made it there by developing his game in college.

And, BTW, it's called "The Blessing".

[hogfankb]

Aren't these guys getting their education paid for to play golf? The only course I could afford in college was the $4 green fee at the Greens. They are getting paid to play The Blessings. They should quit their bitchin, work hard, and try and enjoy hitting golf balls fora living.

Maybe their aspirations transcend a mere degree.  Every college golf friend I knew wanted to play on tour.  This is not a sidebar activity to them.

One of my friends makes pretty good bank on the European Tour.  He made it there by developing his game in college.

I completely agree. Then why are they complaining when they have to work hard?

[Extra Point]

Aren't these guys getting their education paid for to play golf? The only course I could afford in college was the $4 green fee at the Greens. They are getting paid to play The Blessings. They should quit their bitchin, work hard, and try and enjoy hitting golf balls fora living.

Maybe their aspirations transcend a mere degree.  Every college golf friend I knew wanted to play on tour.  This is not a sidebar activity to them.

One of my friends makes pretty good bank on the European Tour.  He made it there by developing his game in college.

I completely agree. Then why are they complaining when they have to work hard?

I guess they "loaf", like some of the football players we read about.

I wouldn't be happy about getting up at 5:30am either.  You can certainly run at other times during the day.  And I think those who were able to shed light on the situation said there were communication problems.

I don't mind working hard, but if I have a boss forcing me to do so in an ineffective way and then not always making himself clear, I'm off to a different pasture.  Notice I didn't say greener pastures.

I think the fact there have been multiple defections is the concern some voiced.

[Juboar]

I know some players on the team. It IS the coach. He makes them get up at 5:30 in the morning to workout and do cardio, like running bleachers. Golfers running bleachers? Golf is a sport, but it doesn't take the endurance of a sport like soccer or football.  The kid from Memphis, Jordan Payne, was a top 25 golfer in the nation coming out of high school.  He's not athletic looking at all but can PLAY. He for one was definitely not satisfied with all the calisthenics.  This coach needs to grow up and put the golfers where they really need to be: on the golf course.

While playing at Stanford, Tiger Woods was reported to be the strongest athelete pound for pound of all atheletes in Stanfords athletic department.  Golf has evolved.  See Tiger Woods.  The rest of the PGA players are now focused on conditioning and trying to catch up. 
Gary Player was one of the early pioneers who recognized that conditioning was important and made him a better player despite his stature.  If the boys don't see the light send um packin. 

[hogfankb]

I will be the first to admit I don't know much about the situation. I have no idea how long this coach has been there but to me if these are players this coach recruited and they chose to play for him then they should have known what they were getting themselves into. If he is a new coach and was brought in after some of the players were already here or has changed his way of coaching midstream then I wouldn't blame them one bit for looking for another option.

But if they had talked to current players or the coach was up front with them during their visits then it sounds to me like they are just plain lazy. I wouldn't be happy about getting up that early either but I could probably handle it to save myself $30,000 and get to go to the school of my choosing. If golf is like any of the other sports they have an already extremely busy day. Class, practice, study hall, conditioning/wieghts. Maybe they have to get up that early to get everything in.

I do think the coach should be held accountable just like every other sport though. If he isn't winning he should be gone. Whether it is because he is a bad coach or because his players get their feelings hurt. If he doesn't win, see ya later.

[hogfankb]

I know some players on the team. It IS the coach. He makes them get up at 5:30 in the morning to workout and do cardio, like running bleachers. Golfers running bleachers? Golf is a sport, but it doesn't take the endurance of a sport like soccer or football.  The kid from Memphis, Jordan Payne, was a top 25 golfer in the nation coming out of high school.  He's not athletic looking at all but can PLAY. He for one was definitely not satisfied with all the calisthenics.  This coach needs to grow up and put the golfers where they really need to be: on the golf course.

While playing at Stanford, Tiger Woods was reported to be the strongest athelete pound for pound of all atheletes in Stanfords athletic department.  Golf has evolved.  See Tiger Woods.  The rest of the PGA players are now focused on conditioning and trying to catch up. 
Gary Player was one of the early pioneers who recognized that conditioning was important and made him a better player despite his stature.  If the boys don't see the light send um packin. 

It is stanford though. The only other real athletes he was having to compete with were on the baseball team.

[Sao Ming]

If Tejada signs, he won't and neither do guys like Vanderjagt or Vijay Singh.

You are SADLY mistaken about Vijay.  He not only works out religiously, but practices as much or more than anyone on tour.

Golf can be a VERY demanding endurance sport.

Football guys play for 12 seconds and then get 20-30 seconds rest.  And then they sit on the bench for 20 minutes.  Let's not go overboard and claim that football players HAVE to be in SO much better shape than golfers.

I challenge you to play a round of golf in 3.5 hours walking and dealing with the rigors of the mental game.  Football requires 1/10 of the mental toughness of a professional golfer.

I won District medalist my freshman year in HS, have played golf all of my life.  Also split time playing baseball and football.  I, like you obviuosly, know what it takes to be a good golfer and it doesnt take running wind sprints to do it.  Can't hurt if you do but its not needed.  And if you think Vijay runs 10K per day, you are mistaken. 

[HogISH™]

first point is they run first thing in the day because of timming. after running they go to class and practice starts @ 1:30-2:00 and lasts based on time of year till dark.

second, they are a lot like the baseball team as they only have a limited number of partial scollies to give.

third, yes the are all mostly country club kids because that is where most players at the college level come from. they were lucky enough to have been raised w/ the opportunity to play a lot or they would not be here.

fourth, there were a couple of players this year that have the game but the mental side is lacking. go back and look @ their results, you had to play well druing qualifing to make the trip, the look @ the bottom of the list and see the performance under pressure.

fifth, golfers need conditioning, try carring your bag for 3 days up and down the fairway. first thing to go is your legs. then add a 24 qt cooler and see how tired you get.

last, ketch and grant work very hard w/ these kids, they are there @ sun up and most nights don't get home till dark. i can assure you that both love coaching, the hogs and mostly the kids.

if we had a little more support from the average razorback fan we could raise enough money to get the program endowed. look @ schools like ok st, texas and such... they can fly on charters to all match's vs the hogs having to fly commercial. makes a big difference getting home a couple of hours after the match's are over vs getting back to the dorm @ 2am.

try getting to know the coachs, for that fact look @ coach cox w/ tennis and see how hard they all work. all three are really great people.

HogISH

[Adam Stokes]

first point is they run first thing in the day because of timming. after running they go to class and practice starts @ 1:30-2:00 and lasts based on time of year till dark.

second, they are a lot like the baseball team as they only have a limited number of partial scollies to give.

third, yes the are all mostly country club kids because that is where most players at the college level come from. they were lucky enough to have been raised w/ the opportunity to play a lot or they would not be here.

fourth, there were a couple of players this year that have the game but the mental side is lacking. go back and look @ their results, you had to play well druing qualifing to make the trip, the look @ the bottom of the list and see the performance under pressure.

fifth, golfers need conditioning, try carring your bag for 3 days up and down the fairway. first thing to go is your legs. then add a 24 qt cooler and see how tired you get.

last, ketch and grant work very hard w/ these kids, they are there @ sun up and most nights don't get home till dark. i can assure you that both love coaching, the hogs and mostly the kids.

if we had a little more support from the average razorback fan we could raise enough money to get the program endowed. look @ schools like ok st, texas and such... they can fly on charters to all match's vs the hogs having to fly commercial. makes a big difference getting home a couple of hours after the match's are over vs getting back to the dorm @ 2am.

try getting to know the coachs, for that fact look @ coach cox w/ tennis and see hard they all work.

HogISH

  Don't caddy's carry around the bags?  Anyways, technique is what gets you by in golf.  Conditioning plays a large role but I couldn't see John Daly running up and down bleachers every morning.  Just like a batter doesn't need pitching lessons, or a shotputter need to go jogging, each sport has the things you need to do to succeed.  I can see how your upper body could effect how far you drive the ball, but I don't see how wind sprints will help you any.  And if the players don't like the coaches and would rather transfer to a dinky school like Memphis State something is probably wrong.  If anything is wrong it's when a player doesn't want to work hard because of a coach.  If the coach isn't doing a good job get him out of there.  As of April 27th we didn't have a single vote in the the D-I coaches poll, meaning not in the top 42.  We are 57th on thegolfchannel.com.  Obviously whatever he is doing isn't working very well.

[HogISH™]

caddy's @ the college level... you must really be a fan..

HogISH

[12under]

first point is they run first thing in the day because of timming. after running they go to class and practice starts @ 1:30-2:00 and lasts based on time of year till dark.

second, they are a lot like the baseball team as they only have a limited number of partial scollies to give.

third, yes the are all mostly country club kids because that is where most players at the college level come from. they were lucky enough to have been raised w/ the opportunity to play a lot or they would not be here.

fourth, there were a couple of players this year that have the game but the mental side is lacking. go back and look @ their results, you had to play well druing qualifing to make the trip, the look @ the bottom of the list and see the performance under pressure.

fifth, golfers need conditioning, try carring your bag for 3 days up and down the fairway. first thing to go is your legs. then add a 24 qt cooler and see how tired you get.

last, ketch and grant work very hard w/ these kids, they are there @ sun up and most nights don't get home till dark. i can assure you that both love coaching, the hogs and mostly the kids.

if we had a little more support from the average razorback fan we could raise enough money to get the program endowed. look @ schools like ok st, texas and such... they can fly on charters to all match's vs the hogs having to fly commercial. makes a big difference getting home a couple of hours after the match's are over vs getting back to the dorm @ 2am.

try getting to know the coachs, for that fact look @ coach cox w/ tennis and see hard they all work.

HogISH

  Don't caddy's carry around the bags?  Anyways, technique is what gets you by in golf.  Conditioning plays a large role but I couldn't see John Daly running up and down bleachers every morning.  Just like a batter doesn't need pitching lessons, or a shotputter need to go jogging, each sport has the things you need to do to succeed.  I can see how your upper body could effect how far you drive the ball, but I don't see how wind sprints will help you any.  And if the players don't like the coaches and would rather transfer to a dinky school like Memphis State something is probably wrong.  If anything is wrong it's when a player doesn't want to work hard because of a coach.  If the coach isn't doing a good job get him out of there.  As of April 27th we didn't have a single vote in the the D-I coaches poll, meaning not in the top 42.  We are 57th on thegolfchannel.com.  Obviously whatever he is doing isn't working very well.

technique is only a part of what gets you by in golf.  talent, endurance, will, and mainly HEART go a long way in that sport.  as some point, players have to look in the mirror and realize that THEY are not getting it done.

[UsACoL1004]

Looks like this may have been the answer...Ketcham and his assistant Oswalt step down as golf  coaches according to Frank Broyles.

[Extra Point]

caddy's @ the college level... you must really be a fan..

HogISH

My thought exactly.  Obviously has little knowledge based on his assumptions and conclusions about the game.  Every successful golfer at the highest level says the mental part of the game is the most demanding.

Try 80% mental, 20% skill or technique to compete as one of the best.

Looks like we got our answer with Ketchum stepping down.  Hopefully they go after a great coach.  I would love to see someone who has been involved with OK State come run our program.

[CorningHog]

I saw in the paper where Ketchum left.  Broyles should pick a real coach that can bring the alumni and fan base in golf together for a good old "scramble" tourney to get to know the players each year that can attract donors, but also the "common golf fan" so that the Razorbacks golf team can become a little more of a known commodity.  I rarely see much on them, and the interaction with the Razorback fans has got to be sma

They could pick a weekend and all across NWA there could be a tourney that raises money for the golf team and do it in a way that brings the fans to the players so that each year there is an annual event to gain knowledge of the team and its players.