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Respect for Anderson in light of FBI probe

Started by Fan701, September 27, 2017, 06:06:04 am

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Fan701

This really increases my respect for MA as a man and as a coach.  He has done well here at Arkansas, and especially well when you factor in that he is playing true amateurs, and it has now been shown that in at least some cases he was having to compete against paid quasi-professionals.  Given the handicap of running a clean program, 26-10 last year looks like an even more glowing achievement.

IronMountainHog

Time to turn over on MSU and the Perrys. He has been around the game long enough to know what went on with Adidas and Perry. Hope to see the crooks in Starkville go down hard.

 

hogwood


Darren DeLoach

Now come on, all I hear on this forum is that doing it the right way is the mantra for losers.
ο λογος υμων παντοτε εν χαριτι αλατι ηρτυμενος ειδεναι πως δει υμας ενι εκαστω αποκρινεσθαι

hogwild6700

Two little mice fell in a bucket of cream. The first mouse quickly gave up and drowned. The second mouse, wouldn't quit. He struggled so hard that eventually he churned that cream into butter and crawled out. Gentlemen, as of this moment, I am that second mouse.

mbgrulz

That was before we realized that the FBI might get involved. I honestly had no clue that the FBI would give a rip about any of this. Glad they do though!

sickboy

I get the feeling that Bielema is the same way. I know most just want to win, but I like the fact that our coaches seem to be honest men. That goes a long way with me.

Fan701

Since yesterday, the premium on honesty in coaching has soared.  It's pretty nice to be very confident that our coach was not participating in what Dicky V. calls this "cesspool."  Who knows what Anderson might be able to accomplish on a level playing field.  He's done well even with cheaters stacking the deck against him.  Hopefully, those days are over and we'll see who's best in an honest competition.

3kgthog

I'm not breathing a sigh of relief until it's official no one at the UA is under investigation. We may not be an adidas school, but we've got a decent sized AAU presence in this state. Once the ten arrested folks start singing, who knows what'll come out?

navyhog24

Quote from: mbgrulz on September 27, 2017, 11:53:32 am
That was before we realized that the FBI might get involved. I honestly had no clue that the FBI would give a rip about any of this. Glad they do though!

I think they only really got involved because federal grant money started being used in the cheating

Paul

Quote from: 3kgthog on September 27, 2017, 01:12:53 pm
I'm not breathing a sigh of relief until it's official no one at the UA is under investigation. We may not be an adidas school, but we've got a decent sized AAU presence in this state. Once the ten arrested folks start singing, who knows what'll come out?
Yep, Nike up next  http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=638522.0

BadHog

Quote from: 3kgthog on September 27, 2017, 01:12:53 pm
I'm not breathing a sigh of relief until it's official no one at the UA is under investigation. We may not be an adidas school, but we've got a decent sized AAU presence in this state. Once the ten arrested folks start singing, who knows what'll come out?

Not worried about CMA. If he were cheating, Monk, Allen, et al would have played for him. He is a great coach and a gentleman.
"Rumors are started by haters, spread by the fools and accepted by idiots."

Paul

Quote from: BadHog on September 27, 2017, 01:17:29 pm
Not worried about CMA. If he were cheating, Monk, Allen, et al would have played for him. He is a great coach and a gentleman.
Hope you're right & our AAU connections are on the up & up

 

Fan701

Quote from: 3kgthog on September 27, 2017, 01:12:53 pm
I'm not breathing a sigh of relief until it's official no one at the UA is under investigation. We may not be an adidas school, but we've got a decent sized AAU presence in this state. Once the ten arrested folks start singing, who knows what'll come out?

You could be right to withhold judgment for now, but the reason I'm very confident that we're clean is due to our never getting any of these five star guys.  If we were paying, we'd be getting the kind of top recruits Pearl and Howland have been getting. We've gotten solid recruits, but except for Bobby Portis, Anderson has never gotten a five star recruit.

Smalltownhog95

Im actually even more impressed with Mike A now. He came into a league corrupted and improved recruiting and potentially lost a couple 5 star kids because of corruption but still managed to become competitive.
Wait a minute this isn't chinese checkers.. This isn't even regular checkers!

Hoggish1

Quote from: Fan701 on September 27, 2017, 06:06:04 am
This really increases my respect for MA as a man and as a coach.  He has done well here at Arkansas, and especially well when you factor in that he is playing true amateurs, and it has now been shown that in at least some cases he was having to compete against paid quasi-professionals.  Given the handicap of running a clean program, 26-10 last year looks like an even more glowing achievement.

Quote from: rzrbackramsfan on Today at 01:50:12 pm

    I'm starting to think we got screwed more than any team in the nation due to teams paying recruits and we wouldn't.

_response by Fan701
You may well be right.  We've lost great recruits like Perry, Monk, and Goodwin, and I now strongly suspect that we lost because we followed the rules, while the other guys cheated.  The other coaches must have sized up Anderson as a chump for not cheating, and he endured so much unjust criticism here for never being able to land these kinds of guys.  He never once complained, and he's getting the last laugh now.
________

Hey fan701,  How do you square these two comments by you in two different threads?

forrest city joe

I have always respected Mike. and respect him even more today.he has done all he could,with the talent he has had.his 3 stars are not going to beat KY 5 stars most nights.the teams who buy the best players win the most.no shock there.

HoopS

We have a great person as our coach. We've known this. Glad some see the light now. He deserves credit for what he's been doing and HOW.

Fan701

Quote from: Hoggish1 on September 27, 2017, 02:58:39 pm
Quote from: rzrbackramsfan on Today at 01:50:12 pm

    I'm starting to think we got screwed more than any team in the nation due to teams paying recruits and we wouldn't.

_response by Fan701
You may well be right.  We've lost great recruits like Perry, Monk, and Goodwin, and I now strongly suspect that we lost because we followed the rules, while the other guys cheated.  The other coaches must have sized up Anderson as a chump for not cheating, and he endured so much unjust criticism here for never being able to land these kinds of guys.  He never once complained, and he's getting the last laugh now.
________

Hey fan701,  How do you square these two comments by you in two different threads?
I don't get your point?  Both quotes say similar things.  Why would they need to be squared?  Both praise our coach for keeping us out of this mess. You must have misread something.

Hoggish1

Quote from: Fan701 on September 27, 2017, 03:42:56 pm
I don't get your point?  Both quotes say similar things.  Why would they need to be squared?  Both praise our coach for keeping us out of this mess. You must have misread something.

Well, the first one is you praising Anderson for being on the up and up and the 2nd one is you agreeing with rzrbackramsfan that we got screwed for not cheating. 

So, I repeat, how do you square those two posts?

Fan701

Quote from: Hoggish1 on September 27, 2017, 04:32:15 pm
Well, the first one is you praising Anderson for being on the up and up and the 2nd one is you agreeing with rzrbackramsfan that we got screwed for not cheating. 

So, I repeat, how do you square those two posts?
Yes, we were on the up and up and, yes, that put us at a disadvantage to those who were cheating, as rzbackramfan wrote.  How is that a contradiction? We have done remarkably well considering that at least some of the teams we played were cheating.  I think you're misreading what was written.  I don't think that rzbackramsfan meant that we should have been cheating, but rather that we lost several top recruits to cheaters and were thereby "screwed."

BrooklynRoss

As much as I think college athletes should (and will) be paid, good on Coach Mike for running a clean program. I've hung out a lot with the guy, and he's not the type to cheat to win.
I support the Razorbacks in the city that never sleeps.

hamARchy in the USA

Arkansas has a history of being a clean program.  That's not new.  There have always been cheating programs yet the Razorback program has been second to none despite them.   Top coaches maintain top programs.  We've experienced it.  Now we're experiencing the opposite.

Fan701

Quote from: hamARchy in the USA on September 27, 2017, 07:49:39 pm
Arkansas has a history of being a clean program.  That's not new.  There have always been cheating programs yet the Razorback program has been second to none despite them.   Top coaches maintain top programs.  We've experienced it.  Now we're experiencing the opposite.
The shoe companies are interested only in players who are likely NBA prospects, one-and-done types, so the schools we should be suspicious of are the ones who get five-star prospects. No shoe company is going to pay money to a three-star nor, most likely, even a four-star.  Schools like Arkansas, Ole Miss, Georgia, Tennessee,Vanderbilt, and South Carolina are presumably clean since they rarely, if ever, get a five-star.  It's schools like Auburn, Kentucky, Alabama, Mississippi State, Texas A&M, LSU, and now maybe Missouri that are very possibly dirty.  I'm not sure which group I put Florida in, probably with the cleans.

 

ErieHog

Quote from: Fan701 on September 27, 2017, 09:03:16 pm
The shoe companies are interested only in players who are likely NBA prospects, one-and-done types, so the schools we should be suspicious of are the ones who get five-star prospects. No shoe company is going to pay money to a three-star nor, most likely, even a four-star.  Schools like Arkansas, Ole Miss, Georgia, Tennessee,Vanderbilt, and South Carolina are presumably clean since they rarely, if ever, get a five-star.  It's schools like Auburn, Kentucky, Alabama, Mississippi State, Texas A&M, LSU, and now maybe Missouri that are very possibly dirty.  I'm not sure which group I put Florida in, probably with the cleans.

South Carolina is in this up to their elbows; they are the only school that fits the criteria established for 'School 2' in the FBI's statement of allegations (public university in S. Carolina, with over 30,000 enrollment) -- so they're involved.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Fan701

Quote from: ErieHog on September 27, 2017, 09:06:21 pm
South Carolina is in this up to their elbows; they are the only school that fits the criteria established for 'School 2' in the FBI's statement of allegations (public university in S. Carolina, with over 30,000 enrollment) -- so they're involved.
Clemson maybe?  South Carolina is almost always towards the bottom in recruiting.  They've gotten good players, but no one-and-done types that I can remember.  No shoe company is going to pay a kid who has slim prospects of ever playing in the NBA, which would describe the three and occasional four star guys S. Carolina gets.  Their recruiting looks much more similar to ours than to, say, Auburn's.

grayhawg


ErieHog

Quote from: Fan701 on September 27, 2017, 09:12:45 pm
Clemson maybe?  South Carolina is almost always towards the bottom in recruiting.  They've gotten good players, but no one-and-done types that I can remember.  No shoe company is going to pay a kid who has slim prospects of ever playing in the NBA, which would describe the three and occasional four star guys S. Carolina gets.  Their recruiting looks much more similar to ours than to, say, Auburn's.


Clemson is only at about 25k, even including the graduate school populations.

South Carolina is the only possible school that fits all the qualified descriptors of School 2.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Fan701

Quote from: ErieHog on September 27, 2017, 09:20:53 pm
Clemson is only at about 25k, even including the graduate school populations.

South Carolina is the only possible school that fits all the qualified descriptors of School 2.
OK, but if they've been cheating, they're not very good at it.  I can't think of one five-star going to S. Carolina, i.e., not one recruit a shoe company would be interested in paying.

Arctic Hog

Quote from: Fan701 on September 27, 2017, 09:12:45 pm
Clemson maybe?  South Carolina is almost always towards the bottom in recruiting.  They've gotten good players, but no one-and-done types that I can remember.  No shoe company is going to pay a kid who has slim prospects of ever playing in the NBA, which would describe the three and occasional four star guys S. Carolina gets.  Their recruiting looks much more similar to ours than to, say, Auburn's.


From ESPN article

By then, the men were already making monthly payments to Oklahoma State assistant Lamont Evans, who the FBI says accepted at least $22,000 in bribes to steer his players toward Sood and Dawkins. Their relationship started when Evans was an assistant at South Carolina, but he left to join the Cowboys because it was "better players, more, more, more business."

Fan701

Quote from: Arctic Hog on September 27, 2017, 09:26:12 pm
From ESPN article

By then, the men were already making monthly payments to Oklahoma State assistant Lamont Evans, who the FBI says accepted at least $22,000 in bribes to steer his players toward Sood and Dawkins. Their relationship started when Evans was an assistant at South Carolina, but he left to join the Cowboys because it was "better players, more, more, more business."
Would that imply that the shoe companies weren't interested in the caliber of player generally recruited for S. Carolina basketball?  They get good players, but no NBA-ready ones, but maybe there was something else going on. We'll see.

Hoggish1

Quote from: Fan701 on September 27, 2017, 06:30:03 pm
Yes, we were on the up and up and, yes, that put us at a disadvantage to those who were cheating, as rzbackramfan wrote.  How is that a contradiction? We have done remarkably well considering that at least some of the teams we played were cheating.  I think you're misreading what was written.  I don't think that rzbackramsfan meant that we should have been cheating, but rather that we lost several top recruits to cheaters and were thereby "screwed."

Well, whatever.  Let's be happy we got screwed because if we hadn't got screwed we would be really screwed.  Get me?

Arctic Hog

Quote from: Fan701 on September 27, 2017, 09:28:15 pm
Would that imply that the shoe companies weren't interested in the caliber of player generally recruited for S. Carolina basketball?  They get good players, but no NBA-ready ones.

No idea, I was just trying to show a direct link between the investigation and South Carolina.  If you haven't already found it, here's the link to the entire article.  It's a bit long, but a good read nonetheless.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20834050/the-story-how-fbi-brought-words-corruption

theFlyingHog

That sounds to me like the actors in this decided that SCe wasn't lucrative enough for what they wanted to do. Like, they didn't get much traction at SC so they moved on. May end up being a good thing for SC

rzrbackramsfan

Quote from: Fan701 on September 27, 2017, 06:30:03 pm
Yes, we were on the up and up and, yes, that put us at a disadvantage to those who were cheating, as rzbackramfan wrote.  How is that a contradiction? We have done remarkably well considering that at least some of the teams we played were cheating.  I think you're misreading what was written.  I don't think that rzbackramsfan meant that we should have been cheating, but rather that we lost several top recruits to cheaters and were thereby "screwed."

Yes, sir!

oldman1015

No program is 100% clean some just cheat more than others. There is no telling how big this could get.
Arkansas, the left lane state.

hoglady

Probably fixing to get really big now since Nike has been implicated.

Too early to tell who's clean and who's not.
I can see a head coach not knowing what an assistant did or an AAU coach did that could get you caught up right in the middle of this mess.

Probably going to be some innocent head coaches having to deal with this.

Appears the FBI is going after Nike full bore.
Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?

"Compassion for animals is intimately associated with goodness of character, and it may be confidently asserted that he who is cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
― Arthur Schopenhauer, The Basis of Morality

twistitup

Quote from: sickboy on September 27, 2017, 12:43:51 pm
I get the feeling that Bielema is the same way. I know most just want to win, but I like the fact that our coaches seem to be honest men. That goes a long way with me.

lordy....more excuses for the big fella - great guy, keep him.

Sure....just cut his salary by 50%
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

Champs04

I think we are clean. If not Anderson should be fired instantly for paying for some of the players we have.

hoglady

Quote from: Fan701 on September 27, 2017, 09:03:16 pm
The shoe companies are interested only in players who are likely NBA prospects, one-and-done types, so the schools we should be suspicious of are the ones who get five-star prospects. No shoe company is going to pay money to a three-star nor, most likely, even a four-star.  Schools like Arkansas, Ole Miss, Georgia, Tennessee,Vanderbilt, and South Carolina are presumably clean since they rarely, if ever, get a five-star.  It's schools like Auburn, Kentucky, Alabama, Mississippi State, Texas A&M, LSU, and now maybe Missouri that are very possibly dirty.  I'm not sure which group I put Florida in, probably with the cleans.

Not necessarily - even the kid at Louisville wasn't a one and done prospect / even though he was a 5 star.
I was listening to an AAU guy on the radio the other day - and he said he'd heard of many instances where players with mid tier talent were getting anywhere from $15,000 to $40,000.
Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?

"Compassion for animals is intimately associated with goodness of character, and it may be confidently asserted that he who is cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
― Arthur Schopenhauer, The Basis of Morality

LRHawg

I'll eat my crow. I criticized Mike for losing out on recruiting battles and while I had suspected some cheating, now I know why. I'm damn proud he's our coach and I'll take my crow well-done, thanks.

HoopS

Quote from: hamARchy in the USA on September 27, 2017, 07:49:39 pm
Arkansas has a history of being a clean program.  That's not new.  There have always been cheating programs yet the Razorback program has been second to none despite them.   Top coaches maintain top programs.  We've experienced it.  Now we're experiencing the opposite.
experiencing the opposite? The horse crap.

Anderson sure is a burr in your saddle it seems.

To each their own though.

Kevin McPherson

Quote from: ErieHog on September 27, 2017, 09:06:21 pm
South Carolina is in this up to their elbows; they are the only school that fits the criteria established for 'School 2' in the FBI's statement of allegations (public university in S. Carolina, with over 30,000 enrollment) -- so they're involved.

ShadowHawg

I remember thinking when they got Dozier something was wierd about it. Martin was known to do some shady stuff in his highschool coaching years. Seemed like there was someone around Dozier with ties to Martin's highschool coaching career.

pigture perfect

coach Anderson is no doubt one of the good guys n the sport. I'm going to be absolutely floored if they find anything on us.
The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

FineAsSwine

Quote from: pigture perfect on September 28, 2017, 11:17:51 pm
coach Anderson is no doubt one of the good guys n the sport. I'm going to be absolutely floored if they find anything on us.
Hogs up! Covid down!

J-Five

I find this thread very amusing...Mike Anderson got DESTROYED when Perry decommitted by some of these posters, but now, it's all praise.  I wish folks weren't so quick to judge and critique a coach (especially over the commitment of a fickle teenager since none of us knows what really goes on).  And I suspect the moment that the bball team loses a game that they shouldn't, the bashing will come back.  LOL. 
"If the person you're criticizing is doing it better than you are, close your mouth"

rude1

September 29, 2017, 09:30:58 am #47 Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 10:10:50 am by rude1
This is also why CMA keeps a close knit group on his coaching staff, this is exhibit A why he wouldn't do as some wanted him to do, go out and get himself an assistant who had a rep for recruiting, you don't know how the guy is doing it and ultimately could get you into the situation we see today.

This shouldn't surprise anyone though, how many years have we all sit here and discussed the dirt affiliated with the AAU circuit, the "handlers", "father figures", "aau coaches", etc. that had to be waded through to get to the top level recruits? Nolan complained about this when the AAU circuit first started to come into prominence, and yet it took this long and the Feds to step in to begin and try and clean this cesspool up.

J-Five

Quote from: rude1 on September 29, 2017, 09:30:58 am
This is also why CMA keeps a close knit group on his coaching staff, this is exhibit A why he wouldn't do as some wanted him to do, go out and get himself an assistant who had a rep for recruiting, you don't know how they guy is doing it and ultimately could get you into the situation we see today.

This shouldn't surprise anyone though, how many years have we all sit here and discussed the dirt affiliated with the AAU circuit, the "handlers", "father figures", "aau coaches", etc. that had to be waded through to get to the top level recruits? Nolan complained about this when the AAU circuit first started to come into prominence, and yet it took this long and the Feds to step in to begin and try and clean this cesspool up.



good points...
"If the person you're criticizing is doing it better than you are, close your mouth"

PorkRinds

Quote from: rude1 on September 29, 2017, 09:30:58 am
This is also why CMA keeps a close knit group on his coaching staff, this is exhibit A why he wouldn't do as some wanted him to do, go out and get himself an assistant who had a rep for recruiting, you don't know how the guy is doing it and ultimately could get you into the situation we see today.

This shouldn't surprise anyone though, how many years have we all sit here and discussed the dirt affiliated with the AAU circuit, the "handlers", "father figures", "aau coaches", etc. that had to be waded through to get to the top level recruits? Nolan complained about this when the AAU circuit first started to come into prominence, and yet it took this long and the Feds to step in to begin and try and clean this cesspool up.

I never actually looked at it that way, but it does make MA's practice of always hiring someone from within his circle of influence that he knows personally. Doing otherwise could cost you your job and your reputation.