Long on North End zone expansion

[ricepig]

Why couldn't we chairback the whole lower bowl? I think it would really set our stadium apart.

Do the math and tell me how many seats we will lose, and the cost, then you will have your answer.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Hard to sell skybox tickets from an end-zone view.

Little known fact: In every fully-enclosed bowl stadium, over 50% of the seats are past the goal lines.

I had NEZ seats (high up) in WMS for many years. For a fan with an above-average knowledge of football, end zone seats are fine. You see the holes open up; you see the game from pretty much the same angle the players do.

I found that I concentrated more, just so I could tell the difference between a four-yard run and a seven-yard run.

[thirrdegreetusker]

If the skyboxes can be sold all they need to do is pull out rows in the upper deck enough to offset most of what initially gets added in outdoor seats in the NEZ  Then assuming the program grows they just gradually add the upper deck rows back as needed, keeping the capacity factor high.

Make each bleacher seat wider, to accomodate the 21st century badokadonk.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Nope, I'm not misremembering(sp) anything, it's what everyone who lived on Stadium called it. I guess unless you poll the student body from the 70's, no one knows, lol.

I was at UA, off and on, from 71 to 92. "The pit" was the name for the area north of the stadium, at least among the folks I knew.

"Passion pit" was another name, from back in the days where opposite gender was not allowed in the unigender dorms. Lots of cars parked there late at night. If you got lucky, you flashed your lights when you left.

[The_Iceman]

Little known fact: In every fully-enclosed bowl stadium, over 50% of the seats are past the goal lines.

I had NEZ seats (high up) in WMS for many years. For a fan with an above-average knowledge of football, end zone seats are fine. You see the holes open up; you see the game from pretty much the same angle the players do.

I found that I concentrated more, just so I could tell the difference between a four-yard run and a seven-yard run.

When I was a student, I loved sitting in the front rows of the SEZ. The play development was real easy to see.

[ricepig]

I was at UA, off and on, from 71 to 92. "The pit" was the name for the area north of the stadium, at least among the folks I knew.

"Passion pit" was another name, from back in the days where opposite gender was not allowed in the unigender dorms. Lots of cars parked there late at night. If you got lucky, you flashed your lights when you left.

Obviously, different folks called different parking lots, different names.

[ricepig]

When I was a student, I loved sitting in the front rows of the SEZ. The play development was real easy to see.

I'm a SOC ticket holder, and moved there from the EOC, prefer the view.

[Inhogswetrust]

I'm a SOC ticket holder, and moved there from the EOC, prefer the view.

Best seats in the stadium!

[Jamie Jones]

Has anyone contacted Jerrah Jones about the financing this air castle is gonna cost? He would have to take a mortgage on AT&T Stadium to pay for some of these ideas.

[ricepig]

Has anyone contacted Jerrah Jones about the financing this air castle is gonna cost? He would have to take a mortgage on AT&T Stadium to pay for some of these ideas.

Jerry might know where to borrow the money.

[Oklahawg]

Opine and others around here will have the scoop on the unofficial chatter, not to mention the official "plan". I do seem to recall they were talking about the NEZ work producing a capacity of either 78K or 82K.

It is conceivable that a small capacity shift could happen immediately, and that it would be partially (but substantial) funded upfront by deposits on the luxury setups. I might be wrong, of course.

I really like the idea of moving the student section and band to the NEZ. In fact, it is an idea I have championed for a while.

[code red]

I don't care if ALL we add, this time, is boxes and suites.  We need to complete the bowl to hold in the sound and make RRS a truly formidable place. 

Its formidable.  Ask Wallace, Jennings and Sims.

[code red]

I would love to see it bowled in but.....those seats are going to require foundation membership.  Correct me if I am wrong but....season tickets were offered to non foundation members this year....right??  Where is the demand??  It would look sad half full.

[ricepig]

Opine and others around here will have the scoop on the unofficial chatter, not to mention the official "plan". I do seem to recall they were talking about the NEZ work producing a capacity of either 78K or 82K.

It is conceivable that a small capacity shift could happen immediately, and that it would be partially (but substantial) funded upfront by deposits on the luxury setups. I might be wrong, of course.

I really like the idea of moving the student section and band to the NEZ. In fact, it is an idea I have championed for a while.

Well, that number depended on whether you counted the temporary bleachers on top of the SEZ, with them gone, closer to the 76,000 number. The first drawings/mock up had around 4500-5000 additional seats in the NEZ.

[The_Iceman]

Has anyone contacted Jerrah Jones about the financing this air castle is gonna cost? He would have to take a mortgage on AT&T Stadium to pay for some of these ideas.

If you are filling it up with luxury boxes and premium chairback seating, the expansion will help pay for itself over time.

[East TN HAWG]

If you are filling it up with luxury boxes and premium chairback seating, the expansion will help pay for itself over time.

It only pays for itself if they are sold. I believe there is currently a waiting list of luxury boxes, but overall we are not filling our current stadium to capacity week in and week out.  What makes us think that we will fill additional seats at premium rates if were not doing it today? 

[ricepig]

It only pays for itself if they are sold. I believe there is currently a waiting list of luxury boxes, but overall we are not filling our current stadium to capacity week in and week out.  What makes us think that we will fill additional seats at premium rates if were not doing it today? 

They sell out the outdoor club seats, and the South Indoor, the end zone ends of the east indoor only sell out on big conference games.

[sowmonella]

Winning will take care of everything. :razorback:

[East TN HAWG]

Winning will take care of everything. :razorback:

Winning definitely fills seats.  However, sports entertainment is cyclical.  Half a century ago baseball parks were full.  In the early 90's, college basketball arenas were full.  In the late 80's and early 90's, NASCAR tracks were full.  Now these entertainment venues are for the most part no where near what they once were.  Tighter family budgets, increased television exposure, and increased ticket prices have contributed.  College football is not immune to these entertainment cycles.

The SEC Network has brought a lot of positive publicity to the SEC, but the downside could lead to a reduction of attendance at the games.  I really would love to see the stadium improved and expanded; however, if those seats are empty that would be a bitter pill. 

I guess the best example was Bud Walton Arena.  It once was filled every game.  Our program slipped, and now it is a shell of what it once was.  We are not filling our current football stadium, why would we want additional empty seats?  I'm not trolling, but wanting more seats just to keep up with the Jones only works if you can fill the seats.   

[ricepig]

Winning definitely fills seats.  However, sports entertainment is cyclical.  Half a century ago baseball parks were full.  In the early 90's, college basketball arenas were full.  In the late 80's and early 90's, NASCAR tracks were full.  Now these entertainment venues are for the most part no where near what they once were.  Tighter family budgets, increased television exposure, and increased ticket prices have contributed.  College football is not immune to these entertainment cycles.

The SEC Network has brought a lot of positive publicity to the SEC, but the downside could lead to a reduction of attendance at the games.  I really would love to see the stadium improved and expanded; however, if those seats are empty that would be a bitter pill. 

I guess the best example was Bud Walton Arena.  It once was filled every game.  Our program slipped, and now it is a shell of what it once was.  We are not filling our current football stadium, why would we want additional empty seats?  I'm not trolling, but wanting more seats just to keep up with the Jones only works if you can fill the seats.   

We aren't filling our upper deck seats, we don't have a problem filling our suites or club seats.

[Inhogswetrust]

It only pays for itself if they are sold. I believe there is currently a waiting list of luxury boxes, but overall we are not filling our current stadium to capacity week in and week out.  What makes us think that we will fill additional seats at premium rates if were not doing it today? 

You're kidding..........See my post about movie theaters............ JUST because it isn't full every time doesn't mean there isn't demand at other times. It kind of depends on how the show is........do you honestly think the show will not get better...........it takes time to plan and build things.

[Oklahawg]

Well, that number depended on whether you counted the temporary bleachers on top of the SEZ, with them gone, closer to the 76,000 number. The first drawings/mock up had around 4500-5000 additional seats in the NEZ.

Thanks. I forgot to factor the loss of the SEZ strap-on bleachers.

[Inhogswetrust]

Winning definitely fills seats.  However, sports entertainment is cyclical.  Half a century ago baseball parks were full.  In the early 90's, college basketball arenas were full.  In the late 80's and early 90's, NASCAR tracks were full.  Now these entertainment venues are for the most part no where near what they once were.  Tighter family budgets, increased television exposure, and increased ticket prices have contributed.  College football is not immune to these entertainment cycles.

The SEC Network has brought a lot of positive publicity to the SEC, but the downside could lead to a reduction of attendance at the games.  I really would love to see the stadium improved and expanded; however, if those seats are empty that would be a bitter pill. 

I guess the best example was Bud Walton Arena.  It once was filled every game.  Our program slipped, and now it is a shell of what it once was.  We are not filling our current football stadium, why would we want additional empty seats?  I'm not trolling, but wanting more seats just to keep up with the Jones only works if you can fill the seats.   

Do you honestly believe that IF we had a basketball program as good as it was or even close to what it was back when we built BWA that it wouldn't be full.............

[DLUXHOG]

Yes, correct, there hasn't been a parking lot in front of Barnhill since the Women's Center and HPER. As has been said numerous times, no biggie.

Actually, when I was on hill (late 70's - early 80's) Barnhill was originally a dirt floor metal bldg ("barn").   Eddie Sutton's first team or two played on a portable wood floor that they would put together in large wood panels over that dirt floor.... Razorback basketball had very humble beginnings....

[Inhogswetrust]

Thanks. I forgot to factor the loss of the SEZ strap-on bleachers.

IIRC it is 72,000 without them but was closer to 76,000 with them. Am I right? At one point when the SEZ was first added it was designed to maybe have an upper deck like on the sidelines added if needed. I think now it has been decided that upgraded seating and bowling in the NEZ makes more sense.

[Mike Irwin]

Opine and others around here will have the scoop on the unofficial chatter, not to mention the official "plan". I do seem to recall they were talking about the NEZ work producing a capacity of either 78K or 82K.

It is conceivable that a small capacity shift could happen immediately, and that it would be partially (but substantial) funded upfront by deposits on the luxury setups. I might be wrong, of course.

I really like the idea of moving the student section and band to the NEZ. In fact, it is an idea I have championed for a while.

As I understand it the people leasing the field boxes would have tickets to the seats above them. You party in your suite before the game, then move up into your seat when the game starts. I'm not sure people playing premium prices for field suites would want to sit anywhere around students or the band.

[ricepig]

Actually, when I was on hill (late 70's - early 80's) Barnhill was originally a dirt floor metal bldg ("barn").   Eddie Sutton's first team or two played on a portable wood floor that they would put together in large wood panels over that dirt floor.... Razorback basketball had very humble beginnings....

Yep, but it wasn't then. In 1976, you still pretty much get your student "ticket" and go to any game, it changed in 1977.

[ricepig]

IIRC it is 72,000 without them but was closer to 76,000 with them. Am I right? At one point when the SEZ was first added it was designed to maybe have an upper deck like on the sidelines added if needed. I think now it has been decided that upgraded seating and bowling in the NEZ makes more sense.

Yeah, USC and Bama in 2010 were both in the 76,000+ range.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Little known fact: In every fully-enclosed bowl stadium, over 50% of the seats are past the goal lines.

I had NEZ seats (high up) in WMS for many years. For a fan with an above-average knowledge of football, end zone seats are fine. You see the holes open up; you see the game from pretty much the same angle the players do.

I found that I concentrated more, just so I could tell the difference between a four-yard run and a seven-yard run.

It's funny you mention that.  I grew up working cushion concession at WMS, and after everything was rented, by about mid second quarter we got to go watch the game.  We didn't have assigned seats, so we would usually go grab a seat in the NEZ among the military vets.  We probably heard some language we weren't meant to hear at that age, but that was how I grew up watching games. 

Consequently, I have no issue with endzone seats.  The only bummer is when the action is clear on the other end of the field, but even then...you get used to it, and the plus of having them right there coming to your EZ is actually better than being on the 50 yard line in terms of really seeing the action unfold. 

[DLUXHOG]

Yep, but it wasn't then. In 1976, you still pretty much get your student "ticket" and go to any game, it changed in 1977.

I believe we only had to flash our student IDs to get in....

[The_Iceman]

It only pays for itself if they are sold. I believe there is currently a waiting list of luxury boxes, but overall we are not filling our current stadium to capacity week in and week out.  What makes us think that we will fill additional seats at premium rates if were not doing it today? 

First: the red premium seats are in high demand. I know some people who decided to pay more to move to the SEZ because they wanted their own chairback seat with their own space. They were tired of fat slobs hogging up their row.

Second: the luxury box waiting list is huge. We would immediately sell out all of the ones we build.

What is not in demand right now in RRS is $45 upper deck bleacher seats. Everything else in the lower level is pretty much full. Just need to find a way to get students interested in actually attending games, instead of just drinking at their frat houses and tailgates.

[ricepig]

I believe we only had to flash our student IDs to get in....

I seem to remember having to go to the Union to get a voucher/ticket, but they changed it often.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Thanks. I forgot to factor the loss of the SEZ strap-on bleachers.

I walked up there once just to see what all the fuss was about.  I'm afraid of heights, and I started getting that queasy feeling in my stomach just getting close.  No way I could sit up there.   

[Mike Irwin]

I think you are either misremembering or things changed a lot. I was at Fayettenam BEFORE those parking lots were closed and games were still at the Barn. The pit was then and is now the students' name for Lot 44. The gravel parking lot was never called the Pit by the majority on campus. Maybe it was just your frat.

Regardless, if you hear somebody on campus today refer to parking in the Pit, they mean Lot 44.

There may have been some gravel on it but it was mostly dirt. One rainy day I was waiting to interview Abe Lemons. The team bus pulled up and Abe got out wearing an expensive pair of cowboy boots. By the time he got to the sidewalk in front of Barnhill his boots were a mess. He looked at me like it was my fault and said, "That's what I would expect from Arkansas. You people spend 10 million dollars to fix up the basketball arena (Barnhill had just been expanded) but you can't pave the damn parking lot."

[Inhogswetrust]

As I understand it the people leasing the field boxes would have tickets to the seats above them. You party in your suite before the game, then move up into your seat when the game starts. I'm not sure people playing premium prices for field suites would want to sit anywhere around students or the band.

Good observation. That would be sweet to have a suite (pardon the pun) then sit close to the field but where you can see good also.
Also I bet you are correct about not wanting to pay those kinds of dollars and deal with the band and student section so close. I also bet the new student "lounge" area on top of the SEZ was a hit and did well this year. Does anyone know?

[thirrdegreetusker]

I believe we only had to flash our student IDs to get in....

Correct. Until things really took off in Sutton's early years, we just had to show ID. As the program improved, student tickets had to be picked up in advance. But I think they were free until the year after that First Final Four (??)

[Been10Hog]

Retractable roof.

We could use the original garage doors from the Broyles' Complex!! That would be sweet!

[urkillnmesmalls]

First: the red premium seats are in high demand. I know some people who decided to pay more to move to the SEZ because they wanted their own chairback seat with their own space. They were tired of fat slobs hogging up their row.

Second: the luxury box waiting list is huge. We would immediately sell out all of the ones we build.

What is not in demand right now in RRS is $45 upper deck bleacher seats. Everything else in the lower level is pretty much full. Just need to find a way to get students interested in actually attending games, instead of just drinking at their frat houses and tailgates.

Man, you're on this topic like a fat kid on a donut.  If I'm reading correctly, the best bet for getting the NEZ bowled in is going to be with luxury boxes.  I'm all for maximizing crowd noise by having more fans that are not in enclosed structures, but if building more suites is going to help keep the current volume inside the stadium, then I'm cool with that. 

I do question the logic behind bowling it in with more seats, because it's not like it's standing room only at present.   

[urkillnmesmalls]

There may have been some gravel on it but it was mostly dirt. One rainy day I was waiting to interview Abe Lemons. The team bus pulled up and Abe got out wearing an expensive pair of cowboy boots. By the time he got to the sidewalk in front of Barnhill his boots were a mess. He looked at me like it was my fault and said, "That's what I would expect from Arkansas. You people spend 10 million dollars to fix up the basketball arena (Barnhill had just been expanded) but you can't pave the damn parking lot."

Now THAT is funny!!!   

[thirrdegreetusker]

There may have been some gravel on it but it was mostly dirt. One rainy day I was waiting to interview Abe Lemons. The team bus pulled up and Abe got out wearing an expensive pair of cowboy boots. By the time he got to the sidewalk in front of Barnhill his boots were a mess. He looked at me like it was my fault and said, "That's what I would expect from Arkansas. You people spend 10 million dollars to fix up the basketball arena (Barnhill had just been expanded) but you can't pave the damn parking lot."

South entrance, I presume.

[thirrdegreetusker]

I seem to remember having to go to the Union to get a voucher/ticket, but they changed it often.

Yes, they tried dozens of different ways to distribute those student tickets. Could never settle on a method.

[DLUXHOG]

Yes, they tried dozens of different ways to distribute those student tickets. Could never settle on a method.

Okay, but in 74/75 & 75/76, I distinctly remember literally only flashing my student ID.   I also think seating was open back then....

[razorbackkid]

Move all games to Little Rock.   

[Mike Irwin]

South entrance, I presume.

Yes. That's where that parking lot was.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Do you honestly believe that IF we had a basketball program as good as it was or even close to what it was back when we built BWA that it wouldn't be full.............

I was an original season ticket holder for BWA. It was a pre-season sellout all through NRs tenure, but actual attendance dropped steadily after the two FF years. We were still a top 25 program, but we only filled the arena a handful of times a year.

Pressguide says:
20,000+  avg first tow years
18,000+   next four years
Under 18 ever since

[thirrdegreetusker]

Okay, but in 74/75 & 75/76, I distinctly remember literally only flashing my student ID.   I also think seating was open back then....

Sounds about right. ID only back then.

[ricepig]

Correct. Until things really took off in Sutton's early years, we just had to show ID. As the program improved, student tickets had to be picked up in advance. But I think they were free until the year after that First Final Four (??)

Nah, we had to have tickets for 77/78. I know, I was first in line for the Texas game at the Union and they open a lower door first, haha.

[wholehog92]

@SportsTalkBo: Long: North end zone project is a challenge b/c its not all about revenue or adding seats. It's about providing easier access for fans.


What does he mean by access?

What he wants to be able to do as someone mentioned is ground level have a cowboys like situation where the fans can watch the team enter the field.  He also wants people on the west and south sides to be able to walk through the area to go from one side of the stadium to the other AND have a concessions area.  He wants to do that on all levels except the entrance piece of course.  Being able to do get all that done, have the suites that there is a demand for and restricted access to them for security while still allowing all of the other things he wants is a challenge in the space available.

[ricepig]

What he wants to be able to do as someone mentioned is ground level have a cowboys like situation where the fans can watch the team enter the field.  He also wants people on the west and south sides to be able to walk through the area to go from one side of the stadium to the other AND have a concessions area.  He wants to do that on all levels except the entrance piece of course.  Being able to do get all that done, have the suites that there is a demand for and restricted access to them for security while still allowing all of the other things he wants is a challenge in the space available.

Yeah, sounds like he wants too much.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Access should mean a multiple level parking structure on the N end with immediate entrance to your seat section. Top level could be a rented "Tailgate Heaven". I would like to live long enough to hear  90K fans calling the hogs in an enclosed RRS!

This and 90+k in lr CAUSE WE DON'T NEED THE MONEY..!