The rrrrrrrrrrrrrest of the Storey

[twistitup]

We shall see

Good Day!

[Abominable Hillbilly]

Nice one

[moses_007]

I hope it turns out to be a great Storey.

[wupigsuey]

I see we didn't get to tell our Storey in the other thread.

[Pigstie]

Don't know why they locked it...   I guess now you can't even voice an opinion on how you hope to see QB competition next year. CC stated to Mike Irwin the he would "ideally like to see a 4th yr Jr. or 5th yr senior starting." I disagreed with that philosophy but not surprised.  They have already shown their history of playing the most experienced QB no matter what. I would have liked to have heard something like, "We don't care how much experience a player has, we will put the most talented players on the field." It seems that is the attitude for every position but QB. Of course, if all things are equal, the more experienced player should get the nod. That is a no brainer.  If that is BA, so be it. History shows that it will be, no matter if he is hurt or not.

[hawgsalot]

Don't know why they locked it...   I guess now you can't even voice an opinion on how you hope to see QB competition next year. CC stated to Mike Irwin the he would "ideally like to see a 4th yr Jr. or 5th yr senior starting." I disagreed with that philosophy but not surprised.  They have already shown their history of playing the most experienced QB no matter what. I would have liked to have heard something like, "We don't care how much experience a player has, we will put the most talented players on the field." It seems that is the attitude for every position but QB. Of course, if all things are equal, the more experienced player should get the nod. That is a no brainer.  If that is BA, so be it. History shows that it will be, no matter if he is hurt or not.

Let's hear of this history they've shown???

[Pig in the Pokey]

Don't know why they locked it...   I guess now you can't even voice an opinion on how you hope to see QB competition next year. CC stated to Mike Irwin the he would "ideally like to see a 4th yr Jr. or 5th yr senior starting." I disagreed with that philosophy but not surprised.  They have already shown their history of playing the most experienced QB no matter what. I would have liked to have heard something like, "We don't care how much experience a player has, we will put the most talented players on the field." It seems that is the attitude for every position but QB. Of course, if all things are equal, the more experienced player should get the nod. That is a no brainer.  If that is BA, so be it. History shows that it will be, no matter if he is hurt or not.

agree. It is a by product of all the BA hate. Us moderates are always "caught in the middle" lol. Anyway, my sincere hope is that Ty is so good and picks up the offense so fast that BA develops faster and doesn't have to play hurt like that ridiculous 4th qt in Columbia ever again.

[secfan30]

Wonder if we see 10-12 of these a month during his freshman season?

[Pigstie]

agree. It is a by product of all the BA hate. Us moderates are always "caught in the middle" lol. Anyway, my sincere hope is that Ty is so good and picks up the offense so fast that BA develops faster and doesn't have to play hurt like that ridiculous 4th qt in Columbia ever again.

Exactly

[Hog-Corleone]

Wonder if we see 10-12 of these a month during his freshman season?

It would be bigger news if we did...

[ChitownHawg]

Don't know why they locked it...   I guess now you can't even voice an opinion on how you hope to see QB competition next year. CC stated to Mike Irwin the he would "ideally like to see a 4th yr Jr. or 5th yr senior starting." I disagreed with that philosophy but not surprised.  They have already shown their history of playing the most experienced QB no matter what. I would have liked to have heard something like, "We don't care how much experience a player has, we will put the most talented players on the field." It seems that is the attitude for every position but QB. Of course, if all things are equal, the more experienced player should get the nod. That is a no brainer.  If that is BA, so be it. History shows that it will be, no matter if he is hurt or not.

Go back read further in the thread as Mike did address this, but that probably won't stop your misinformed argument.   

[secfan30]

It would be bigger news if we did...

Biggers is betters

[twistitup]

Biggers is betters

But will Storey's career at Arkansas be storied? I hope so, but who really knows....recruiting and college football are hard to predict.

"If there is a 50-50 chance that something can go wrong, then 9 times out of ten it will."

Paul Harvey

[Mike Irwin]

Don't know why they locked it...   I guess now you can't even voice an opinion on how you hope to see QB competition next year. CC stated to Mike Irwin the he would "ideally like to see a 4th yr Jr. or 5th yr senior starting." I disagreed with that philosophy but not surprised.  They have already shown their history of playing the most experienced QB no matter what. I would have liked to have heard something like, "We don't care how much experience a player has, we will put the most talented players on the field." It seems that is the attitude for every position but QB. Of course, if all things are equal, the more experienced player should get the nod. That is a no brainer.  If that is BA, so be it. History shows that it will be, no matter if he is hurt or not.

Somebody took a cheap shot at Brandon Allen toward the end of that thread. That post is gone and the thread was locked. I'm guessing here but it seems to me that there have been about a dozen threads locked lately because of posters bashing Allen.

What's the difference between making an observation and bashing a player? I think most of us know. It's not what you write but how you write it.

[greghog]

I would have liked to have heard something like, "We don't care how much experience a player has, we will put the most talented players on the field."

If the most talented guy doesn't know the plays (not saying that is the case, just using it as an example) he won't play.  It isn't just about the most talent.  If you change it to "the best player" then I agree with you.  Talent is important, but it isn't 100% of the question.

When I was a Senior, I was the starting left tackle for my high school.  The guy behind me was stronger, bigger, faster and quicker.  One on one he kicked my butt most of the time.  He wasn't very smart.  He didn't know all the plays, he jumped off sides just about ever time the snap wasn't "on one."  He WAS the most talented player on the whole O-line.  He was not the best player.

[The_Iceman]

Somebody took a cheap shot at Brandon Allen toward the end of that thread. That post is gone and the thread was locked. I'm guessing here but it seems to me that there have been about a dozen threads locked lately because of posters bashing Allen.

What's the difference between making an observation and bashing a player? I think most of us know. It's not what you write but how you write it.

There is a smug caller that calls into Josh Burtucchini's (sp?) show once a week and just berates Brandon Allen every single call. Its like the guy enjoys it. I think we have the same thing with some posters on here.

[Mike Irwin]

He WAS the most talented player on the whole O-line.  He was not the best player.

Great point. Coaches deal with this all the time. I rarely defend Nutt but those times when he pulled Matt Jones and played Ryan Sorahan or whoever, he was trying to get some consistency. Matt was unbeatable in some games but looked bored out of his skull in other games.

The problem was none of those other quarterbacks did the job as well as Matt. Even in games where he was uninspired.

[Lanny]

Any thread that bashes players will be:
Deleted, locked or moved

[hogsanity]

"We don't care how much experience a player has, we will put the most talented players on the field."

Are you using the phrase most talented to mean the best player?

As an umpire I have seen lots of pitchers with a million dollar arm and a 10 cent head. They have loads of talent, but for whatever reason they can't do anything with it. The same can hold true in any sport or profession.

I know a kid in Fort Smith, same age as my oldest son, he can play 7 different musical instruments, taught himself to play 5 of them, ( Learned to play bass in  about 2 days ), he is decent on all, but great on none because he won't put in the extra time it takes to get that good. More musical talent than anyone I have ever been around, but does not know how to put it to proper use.

[hawgmasta]

Are you using the phrase most talented to mean the best player?

As an umpire I have seen lots of pitchers with a million dollar arm and a 10 cent head. They have loads of talent, but for whatever reason they can't do anything with it. The same can hold true in any sport or profession.

I know a kid in Fort Smith, same age as my oldest son, he can play 7 different musical instruments, taught himself to play 5 of them, ( Learned to play bass in  about 2 days ), he is decent on all, but great on none because he won't put in the extra time it takes to get that good. More musical talent than anyone I have ever been around, but does not know how to put it to proper use.

Once I made it to college I realized being smart had very little to do with those that were the best students. It had to do with how hard you implemented study habits, balanced a social life and remained physically and mentally healthy (not drinking every night).

Let's just say it took me a try or two to get the hang of things.

[Pigstie]

If the most talented guy doesn't know the plays (not saying that is the case, just using it as an example) he won't play.  It isn't just about the most talent.  If you change it to "the best player" then I agree with you.  Talent is important, but it isn't 100% of the question.

When I was a Senior, I was the starting left tackle for my high school.  The guy behind me was stronger, bigger, faster and quicker.  One on one he kicked my butt most of the time.  He wasn't very smart.  He didn't know all the plays, he jumped off sides just about ever time the snap wasn't "on one."  He WAS the most talented player on the whole O-line.  He was not the best player.

Ok, I think it is safe to say that come next July, AA and RP will both know the playbook well.  I would like to see both get considerable time in the RW game. There are plenty of Fr and red shirt FR that were very productive this year around the country. With the HS coaching and 7 on 7, this is not uncommon. I promise you, a highly recruited QB doesn't want to see a pattern at a school of riding the bench for 4 or 5 years before playing. Period. We will lose recruits and players to transfer if this is the route we take. The recruit may ask... " well coach, what If I'm the better QB?" What is JC going to say? "Sorry, but you won't have the same experience for 4 yrs or so." ??  However if this is the route we choose to take, we may as well only recruit a QB every other year. JMHO.

[ChitownHawg]

Ok, I think it is safe to say that come next July, AA and RP will both know the playbook well.  I would like to see both get considerable time in the RW game. There are plenty of Fr and red shirt FR that were very productive this year around the country. With the HS coaching and 7 on 7, this is not uncommon. I promise you, a highly recruited QB doesn't want to see a pattern at a school of riding the bench for 4 or 5 years before playing. Period. We will lose recruits and players to transfer if this is the route we take. The recruit may ask... " well coach, what If I'm the better QB?" What is JC going to say? "Sorry, but you won't have the same experience for 4 yrs or so." ??  However if this is the route we choose to take, we may as well only recruit a QB every other year. JMHO.

Care to quantify "plenty"? And how many freshman QBs failed? Just trying to determine if you have stats or simply shooting from the hip.

Thanks

[Mike Irwin]

I promise you, a highly recruited QB doesn't want to see a pattern at a school of riding the bench for 4 or 5 years before playing.

How do you ride the bench for 5 years before playing? It would take a medical hardship on top of a redshirt season to do that.

I said that Chaney preferred to put a 4th year junior or 5th year senior on the field at quarterback if possible. A 4th year player who starts for the first time has been sitting for three years.

You have taken what I posted, exaggerated it and made it a hard and fast rule by Chaney which I never implied. I've even responded and explained it and still you persist in this claim that Chaney will end up scaring away top quality quarterbacks by telling them they can't play for four or five seasons.

Give it up. That's not what I posted.

[jgphillips3]

Let's put it this way.  Chaney would like to play Junior Ryan Mallett over Freshman Ryan Mallett and have Ryan Malletts stacked on the bench learning.  However, there may be a situation where he has to play a redshirt freshman Ryan Mallett over a Junior Austin Allen if the talent gap is just too great and the talent gives us a better chance to win...but all things being equal he'd rather the QB have his growing pains on the bench, not the field, and be a more mature man by the time he hits the field.  This is actually very sensible but if we see more absurdity like a hurt BA playing over a healthy AA, I think we will all lose a little more faith though.

[Mike Irwin]

Let's put it this way.  Chaney would like to play Junior Ryan Mallett over Freshman Ryan Mallett and have Ryan Malletts stacked on the bench learning.  However, there may be a situation where he has to play a redshirt freshman Ryan Mallett over a Junior Austin Allen if the talent gap is just too great and the talent gives us a better chance to win...but all things being equal he'd rather the QB have his growing pains on the bench, not the field, and be a more mature man by the time he hits the field.  This is actually very sensible but if we see more absurdity like a hurt BA playing over a healthy AA, I think we will all lose a little more faith though.

Chaney did not make the decision to keep Brandon Allen in the Missouri game.

[Inhogswetrust]

Once I made it to college I realized being smart had very little to do with those that were the best students. It had to do with how hard you implemented study habits, balanced a social life and remained physically and mentally healthy (not drinking every night).

Let's just say it took me a try or two to get the hang of things.

^this! My son didn't have the highest IQ of some of his classmates. YET he graduated from the UA with a dual major in Electrical Engineering and Physics. Then got a Masters Degree from MIT in Electrical Engineering. He will tell you he wasn't the smartest student BUT I will say NOBODY outworked him or studied harder and more than him. He studied damn near every waking hour except when he was eating or working out. He would stay in the Bell Engineering building all night working and studying a lot of times. I don't know how he had any social life and a girlfriend in college but he did. I'm more proud of his name in the sidewalk than mine. Now he's a VP for a silicon valley high tech company.
My point is talent can only t=ake you so far............You still have to use it properly and work on things that are not talent related.

[Pigstie]

How do you ride the bench for 5 years before playing? It would take a medical hardship on top of a redshirt season to so that.

I said that Chaney preferred to put a 4th year junior or 5th year senior on the field at quarterback if possible. A 4th year player who starts for the first time has been sitting for three years.

You have taken what I posted, exaggerated it and made it a hard and fast rule by Chaney which I never implied. I've even responded and explained it and still you persist in this claim that Chaney will end up scaring away top quality quarterbacks by telling them they can't play for four or five seasons.

Give it up. That's not what I posted.

Mike I have no reason to try to exaggerate anything.  What Chaney stated to you only solidified what most already assumed. My question is this. If going by experience,  how many years will TS wait to play? Considering eligibility remaining for BA, then AA, then RP ?

[Pigstie]

Let's put it this way.  Chaney would like to play Junior Ryan Mallett over Freshman Ryan Mallett and have Ryan Malletts stacked on the bench learning.  However, there may be a situation where he has to play a redshirt freshman Ryan Mallett over a Junior Austin Allen if the talent gap is just too great and the talent gives us a better chance to win...but all things being equal he'd rather the QB have his growing pains on the bench, not the field, and be a more mature man by the time he hits the field.  This is actually very sensible but if we see more absurdity like a hurt BA playing over a healthy AA, I think we will all lose a little more faith though.

BA played with very limited throwing range most of last year as well.

[Inhogswetrust]

Ok, I think it is safe to say that come next July, AA and RP will both know the playbook well.  I would like to see both get considerable time in the RW game. There are plenty of Fr and red shirt FR that were very productive this year around the country. With the HS coaching and 7 on 7, this is not uncommon. I promise you, a highly recruited QB doesn't want to see a pattern at a school of riding the bench for 4 or 5 years before playing. Period. We will lose recruits and players to transfer if this is the route we take. The recruit may ask... " well coach, what If I'm the better QB?" What is JC going to say? "Sorry, but you won't have the same experience for 4 yrs or so." ??  However if this is the route we choose to take, we may as well only recruit a QB every other year. JMHO.

Were you highly recruited QB? I doubt it. Were you on a D1 team and practiced and have to interact with coaches at that level as a QB? I doubt it. There big majority of D1 QB's were highly recruited and a lot of times they get beat out by what you think may be more talented or in your words "better" or more "experienced" QB's. do you honestly think that a coach won't play the BEST QB...............your problem is you discount experience and only think talent matters and that isn't true. A LOT of more talented QB's and other players have been beat out by others simply because of other factors. It takes some talent but it also takes other things to be a complete player. What if that more talented QB does't know the play book as well, can't read the D as well, does't work as much in the offseason to get better, doesn't get along with his teammates as well, or panics in the pocket or makes more mistakes, etc. I guess it is easy for you to say he should still play over others that are good but don't do those things since your job doesn't depend on it. You also need to plan for some attrition at ALL positions during recruiting because you never know how long any player will be there for different reasons. Come on man get real.

P.S. Guess how many years Blake Sims has been at Bama before starting this year.

   

[Inhogswetrust]

BA played with very limited throwing range most of last year as well.

Then that should be a hint.

[Inhogswetrust]

Mike I have no reason to try to exaggerate anything.  What Chaney stated to you only solidified what most already assumed. My question is this. If going by experience,  how many years will TS wait to play? Considering eligibility remaining for BA, then AA, then RP ?

On 99.99% of football teams the backups have to BEAT OUT the starter. That is usually determined by practice and other off the field things and not during the game.

[The_Iceman]

Every coach in the country would prefer to start a redshirt Junior or Senior at QB if possible.

I'm not sure why this got so blown out of proportion.

[Mike_e]

On 99.99% of football teams the backups have to BEAT OUT the starter. That is usually determined by practice and other off the field things and not during the game.

And there's the rest of the story.

[Mike Irwin]

Mike I have no reason to try to exaggerate anything.  What Chaney stated to you only solidified what most already assumed. My question is this. If going by experience,  how many years will TS wait to play? Considering eligibility remaining for BA, then AA, then RP ?

You exaggerated my original post by (a) thowing out the wait five years before playing line and (b) acting like Chaney was going to tell recruits that they'd have to wait that long to play.

As for your question, it's total speculation on my part but I'd say that since Austin Allen played in four games this season,  didn't make any big mistakes and looked impressive in the Ole Miss game, he will probably replace his brother in 2016.

If this happens at some point either Peavey or Storey would become the No. 2 guy behind Austin. The odd man out might leave the program but that's not always the case.

Players get hurt. Some backups have enough insight and patience to see this. Others, like Brandon Mitchell, don't. If Mitchell had stuck around he would have been the starter after Brandon Allen's injury last year.

[woodrow hog call]

 

On 99.99% of football teams the backups have to BEAT OUT the starter. That is usually determined by practice and other off the field things and not during the game.

But but but, what about star ratings and high school stats, message board rankings?
They have to be included too don't they?

[The_Iceman]

You exaggerated my original post by (a) thowing out the wait five years before playing line and (b) acting like Chaney was going to tell recruits that they'd have to wait that long to play.

As for your question, it's total speculation on my part but I'd say that since Austin Allen played in four games this season,  didn't make any big mistakes and looked impressive in the Ole Miss game, he will probably replace his brother in 2016.

If this happens at some point either Peavey or Storey would become the No. 2 guy behind Austin. The odd man out might leave the program but that's not always the case.

Players get hurt. Some backups have enough insight and patience to see this. Others, like Brandon Mitchell, don't. If Mitchell had stuck around he would have been the starter after Brandon Allen's injury last year.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Austin Allen looked "impressive" in the Ole Miss game. I suspect that if Brandon Allen starts all of 2015, the 2016 QB race will be wide open for whoever wants it.

[nchogg]

Mike that makes sense.

[Mike Irwin]

I wouldn't go so far as to say Austin Allen looked "impressive" in the Ole Miss game. I suspect that if Brandon Allen starts all of 2015, the 2016 QB race will be wide open for whoever wants it.

A redshirt freshman QB comes in cold in his first SEC game against the best defense in the conference in forcing turnovers and he doesn't have a single turnover. That's impressive to me. He also was 3-5 passing for 65 yards and more importantly moved the chains to keep Ole Miss' offense on the bench, a big reason for the time of possession difference (34 minutes to 25 minutes).

Maybe you expected a Heisman-like effort. Given his lack of experience I was just hoping he didn't blow the game.

[hogsanity]

Here is the problem with the Qb spot, a problem you do not have at any other spot on the offense or defense. At most positions multiple plyers play every game. A team may use 3-5 running backs per game. 4-8 wr's. 2+ te's. Multiple OL and Dl. 3+ line backers, multiple db's. QB is the only spot where the plan is for one guy to take all the snaps. So, just how do you get the back up experience? If he comes in when you are way ahead, you don't throw much or at all out of respect for the beaten opponent. If you are way behind, you don't throw much if at all because you just want to get the heck out of dodge. If he comes in for an injured starter, like in the om game, you just do not want him to foul things up.

You spend most of the practice time with the starter getting all the reps, you spend spring ball with the backups running the 2nd and 3rd teams. You sign a qb in just about every class, so there is no real way to evaluate them all, and certainly no way to get all of them game time.

This is why on any given Saturday many of the qb's you see playing transferred from some other school. Early this season, on one Saturday, there were 5 qb's playing that at one time had all been at Notre Dame.

[twistitup]

"In times like these, it helps to recall that there have always been times like these."

- Paul Harvey

[urkillnmesmalls]

Mike I have no reason to try to exaggerate anything.  What Chaney stated to you only solidified what most already assumed. My question is this. If going by experience,  how many years will TS wait to play? Considering eligibility remaining for BA, then AA, then RP ?

How can anyone be expected to answer your question?  There are TONS of variables. 

Kids know.  I think that's what most fans lose sight of, or for whatever reason choose to ignore.  Kids don't transfer out because they think the coaches are idiots and that they're the best player.  They see that they aren't quite as good for whatever reason, and decide they want to go elsewhere with a better chance to play.   

Storey should come here expecting to red shirt, learn and develop, and get on the field when he's the best option or necessity requires it.  I like it that our coaches are setting the stage for that, and not setting unrealistic expectations with empty promises.  If he exceeds that, and is the best choice...then run him out there.  I think that's exactly how our coaches view it. 

If his desire is to play immediately, then coming to ANY team in the SECW isn't his best option.  Maybe Tulsa...LA Tech...etc.  History does not support an inexperienced QB doing great things in the SEC minus a very select few exceptions, and most of those were the result of a ridiculous amount of talent around them. 

[urkillnmesmalls]

Every coach in the country would prefer to start a redshirt Junior or Senior at QB if possible.

I'm not sure why this got so blown out of proportion.

EXACTLY.  That shows that you're doing a good job at not only recruiting, but developing, and if you recruited well in the first place, then you should absolutely expect experience to be a HUGE advantage. 

Fans are always convinced the next best thing to sliced bread is sitting on the bench because the coaches are idiots.  It's wishful thinking, but they're not trying to lose games, despite what some fans seem to believe. 

[swinemaster]

Mike, is it OK to say that I hope Ty Storey is better than BA?  And I don't find much of a stretch that he already is?

[Mike Irwin]

Mike, is it OK to say that I hope Ty Storey is better than BA?  And I don't find much of a stretch that he already is?

Its okay but it's not based in reality. I wish it were possible to stick Storey or Peavey out there in an SEC game and let some of you see what would happen then come back to reality with no damage done. Unfortunately there's no way for that to happen.

Some people on this board understand football enough to know that coaches with careers on the line are not going to play a kid at QB if he's not the best option they have. They spend 20 hours a week around players the rest of us see for two hours in a game. They are in the off season with them. We are not. They are in the business of coaching. We are not.

I've been around a few coaches in my career than didn't seem to be cut out for the job. There is nobody like that on Bielema's staff.

If Brandon Allen had been a 4th year junior when he first started and had the players around him that Tyler Wilson had in 2011 nobody would be picking at him right now. The fact is he's played in a transition period under some really difficult circumstances. That's not coming from me. That's coming from coaches and players on this team that I have talked to about Allen.

[Grizzlyfan]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.  Ty Storey had an incredible high school career and has a huge upside.  He has all the physical tools.  HOWEVER.  Brandon Allen's high school career was very similar to Storey's in terms of big numbers and playing for championships.  Except Brandon was doing it at a much higher level.  Brandon was a highly rated and highly recruited QB. Physically they are very similar.

All that to say, Storey's high school #'s are no guarantee of anything.  Please be patient.

[TuffTusk]

Mike, is it OK to say that I hope Ty Storey is better than BA?  And I don't find much of a stretch that he already is?

Storey put up great numbers at Charleston.  What were BA's numbers like at Fayetteville?  I ask because I don't know, and don't really want to look them up.  What kind of numbers would BA have put up if he played at Charleston?  What would Storey's numbers have looked like playing for Fayetteville?  Competition any different?

^^^typing mine while you posted Grizz....my points exactly

I only ask these questions because Storey hasn't played a down of DI football yet, so it would be more fair to compare the two as high school QBs.

In the end, none of it matters because no one really knows these answers.  But to say that a high school kid is better than a starting DI QB is a stretch....no matter who the DI QB is.

[The_Iceman]

Physically they are very similar.

From people that I know that have met Ty Storey in person, they say he is a physically imposing figure. The guy is well built and very large.

On paper, they look similar, but can anyone that has been close to each of them in person compare the two? Just wondering.

[Grizzlyfan]

I guess it would only be fair to say that Ty Storey at 18 is physically similar to Brandon at 22.  So yes Ty is imposing for a high school senior. 

[hawg66]

Andrew Luck, Johnny Manziel, Crablegs and Mariota all redshirted.  Arkansas returns a two year starter at QB.  Okay Hogville let's think and try to figure this out.  Hmmmm...

[wholehog92]

My opinion is not really about how good, bad, or talented BA is.  My opinion is based more on my observation of results.  The results are pretty inconsistent on an individual basis and the wins aren't there.  I'm tired of that result.  If I'm going to get beat, I'd rather be watching another young QB get a shot rather than just set on the bench and transfer without having the opportunity to help the team.  What's the downside?  Another loss?  BFD we're losing anyway.

Matt Jones was mentioned earlier.  I'm not saying we have someone that talented.  We might have a gamer setting on the bench that doesn't practice well though.

I hate that we have no idea what we have other than BA and his performance has been average.  I have no idea how we went from a fan base firmly behind the competition at every position concept to one backing this is our guy, just live with it.