aTm Game depth chart

[ThisTeetsTaken]

Why do people think recruiting rankings matter once a player is on campus? If they don't win a spot because they were a) ranked inaccurately or b) Don't have a good work ethic and don't progress or c) are beaten out by someone who comes in under the radar like J.J. Watt then they do not deserve a position.

Google Dwayne Spann for examples of a,b and c

It's not a bad sign when it's a DB or a WR or even a RB but OL (especially if you're in the SEC) need time in a college weight room and nutrition program to be able to compete physically with linemen that have been in those programs for a while and are physically superior.   Are their a few exceptions to that from time to time? Sure but those kids are offered scholarships by everyone in the country.  They aren't walk-ons.   I wish someone had a short video of the TCU D-lineman pushing Clary backwards as if he were on ice.  Explains the problem perfectly.   The guys like Merrick and Raulerson may not be as skilled as Clary may or may not be but they are at least physically mature enough to handle the beasts on the D-lines they would face.

[woodrow hog call]

It's not a bad sign when it's a DB or a WR or even a RB but OL (especially if you're in the SEC) need time in a college weight room and nutrition program to be able to compete physically with linemen that have been in those programs for a while and are physically superior.   Are their a few exceptions to that from time to time? Sure but those kids are offered scholarships by everyone in the country.  They aren't walk-ons.   I wish someone had a short video of the TCU D-lineman pushing Clary backwards as if he were on ice.  Explains the problem perfectly.   The guys like Merrick and Raulerson may not be as skilled as Clary may or may not be but they are at least physically mature enough to handle the beasts on the D-lines they would face.

Is getting pushed around because you aren't big enough worse than completely whiffing, because you don't know your assignments? Let's think about that one for a while.

[The_Iceman]

Why do people think recruiting rankings matter once a player is on campus? If they don't win a spot because they were a) ranked inaccurately or b) Don't have a good work ethic and don't progress or c) are beaten out by someone who comes in under the radar like J.J. Watt then they do not deserve a position.

Google Dwayne Spann for examples of a,b and c

Throw out recruiting rankings and just look at time on campus and experience. Clary still shouldn't be playing.

[PorkRinds]

Someone who is down on Clary post aomenvodeo showing what you're talking about.

[ThisTeetsTaken]

Is getting pushed around because you aren't big enough worse than completely whiffing, because you don't know your assignments? Let's think about that one for a while.

Isn't it the coaches job to make sure guys know their assignments 1-2 years into the kids time on campus?   If they are recruiting kids that can't get it done two years into the process they have a big problem.

[razorbackfaninar]

Thank you!! Same thing I was saying about that dumb ass Nick Saban who had the idiocy to start a Freshman at quarterback last year when he had 4 star QBs on the roster! Wait maybe Jalen Hurts beat them out and Saint Nick decided to play the player who gave them the best chance to win! Could Bielema be playing the players he and the assistants have watched in practice and think give us the best chance to win? Or is it a conspiracy to play players inept and get away with it while managing to go to bowl games and keep his job?

I get what you are saying, but given the fact that since last year the o-line has been an obvious source of our issues and it seems to be continuing this year I think that it's a legitimate concern that if the guys who are starting are the best we have, then how bad must the remainder of the o-line talent be? and why are they so bad?

If the o-line starting unit is comprised of our best linemen and they are having the trouble that they are having, that to me says logically the remainder the o-line must be at least worse than our current starters.  Not to be over-dramatic, but outside of Ragnow, I'm not seeing many who would be starters for other teams. So if it is the case that these starting linemen (who outside of Ragnow seem average at best) are our best and the remainder of the ones we have are not even as good as them (below average), how did we get to this point? How did we end up with so many average to below average linemen?

So that is why I think that you get the perception that something is wrong whether it is or not.  People say " Well you can miss on a player. Sometimes those stars don't pan out" but it gets harder to believe that we missed on several 4 stars and then found a few diamonds in the rough.  So we have basically beaten the odds in different directions for 4 o-line players.  Add to that the fact that you have players like TJ Hammonds who never seem to get on the field despite saying last year and all off-season that he needed more touches and people start to wonder about the decision making process.  I have no doubt that no one wants to win more than the coaches and I don't have any illusion that they are playing players that they feel are inferior because they like them, but after a while it seems like their evaluation of who is good in practice vs who is good in the game may be skewed a bit.

[woodrow hog call]

Isn't it the coaches job to make sure guys know their assignments 1-2 years into the kids time on campus?   If they are recruiting kids that can't get it done two years into the process they have a big problem.

Yep you are right any coach that can't see with 100% certainty two years down the road, how a kid is going to respond to coaching, should just quit and find another line of work. Makes perfect sense.

[razorbackfaninar]

Isn't it the coaches job to make sure guys know their assignments 1-2 years into the kids time on campus?   If they are recruiting kids that can't get it done two years into the process they have a big problem.

I KNOW there are complexities at this level, but O-line isn't as difficult to learn as other positions on the field.  If a player can't understand the assignments by year 2, he is never going to be able to understand them. Either A the player isn't smart enough, or B the position is being made to complex.  It is perhaps a combination of the two.

[woodrow hog call]

I KNOW there are complexities at this level, but O-line isn't as difficult to learn as other positions on the field.  If a player can't understand the assignments by year 2, he is never going to be able to understand them. Either A the player isn't smart enough, or B the position is being made to complex.  It is perhaps a combination of the two.

O linemen have always been known to be the most intelligent group of players on the team.

[PorkRinds]

Wallace is the highest rated offensive lineman on the roster AND was a solid starter last year. It's not just about recruiting rankings. Wallace took over RT quickly last year and never gave the spot up. If you seriously believe Clary is that big of a diamond in the rough, you'd probably let Bielema sell you ice if you lived in Antarctica.

So what's the true story then? What's the real reason in your mind?

[onebadrubi]

Wallace is the highest rated offensive lineman on the roster AND was a solid starter last year. It's not just about recruiting rankings. Wallace took over RT quickly last year and never gave the spot up. If you seriously believe Clary is that big of a diamond in the rough, you'd probably let Bielema sell you ice if you lived in Antarctica.

people who aren't blinded by such an agenda notice that Wallace had high star rankings, but as of right now we have had two games where Clary performed. 

If Clary was failing to perform everyone would have something to talk on, but right now, Left guard, center, and right guard are performing their job at a high clip. 

You are being ridiculous if you are just looking for something to cry about with the performance of this team lacking in the first two games and have to reach to a part of the team that hasn't been a problem.  Which is exactly too many are doing. 

[The_Iceman]

So what's the true story then? What's the real reason in your mind?

The coaches are incompetent at developing and motivating players to be their best. Why else is a 6'6" 335lb RT with starting experience in the SEC on the bench over a true freshman walkon who just got here a few weeks ago?

[PorkRinds]

The coaches are incompetent at developing and motivating players to be their best. Why else is a 6'6" 335lb RT with starting experience in the SEC on the bench over a true freshman walkon who just got here a few weeks ago?

You really can't think of any other possible reason? That's a lack of imagination.

[onebadrubi]

The coaches are incompetent at developing and motivating players to be their best. Why else is a 6'6" 335lb RT with starting experience in the SEC on the bench over a true freshman walkon who just got here a few weeks ago?

Yeah, our O line was so good last year we don't want to make any changes to it from last year, you know since we kept our QB up right so many times. Geeze

[razorbackfaninar]

people who aren't blinded by such an agenda notice that Wallace had high star rankings, but as of right now we have had two games where Clary performed. 

If Clary was failing to perform everyone would have something to talk on, but right now, Left guard, center, and right guard are performing their job at a high clip. 

You are being ridiculous if you are just looking for something to cry about with the performance of this team lacking in the first two games and have to reach to a part of the team that hasn't been a problem.  Which is exactly too many are doing.

It's true we have a small sample size on Clary, but if just " not failing to perform" is the metric then Wallace also did that. He was serviceable in the position.  So I guess what I cant wrap my head around is if Wallace was "serviceable" in the position and Clary is "serviceable" then wouldn't it be better to start Wallace and RS Clary? I guess we will never be privy to all the information that went into the decision, and if we were it might make more sense, but with the limited amount of info we have it can't get my head around the decision.

[razorbackfaninar]

Yeah, our O line was so good last year we don't want to make any changes to it from last year, you know since we kept our QB up right so many times. Geeze

yeah, but the changes thus far don't seem to have made a major impact.  The line still looked like there are some of the same issues from last year.

[GuvHog]

It's not a bad sign when it's a DB or a WR or even a RB but OL (especially if you're in the SEC) need time in a college weight room and nutrition program to be able to compete physically with linemen that have been in those programs for a while and are physically superior.   Are their a few exceptions to that from time to time? Sure but those kids are offered scholarships by everyone in the country.  They aren't walk-ons.   I wish someone had a short video of the TCU D-lineman pushing Clary backwards as if he were on ice. Explains the problem perfectly.   The guys like Merrick and Raulerson may not be as skilled as Clary may or may not be but they are at least physically mature enough to handle the beasts on the D-lines they would face.

Such a video doesn't exist because it didn't happen.

[Letsroll1200]

Yeah, our O line was so good last year we don't want to make any changes to it from last year, you know since we kept our QB up right so many times. Geeze

Why move Gibson to tackle when he had a dominating performance against Florida at guard. If Im a coach on want to build on his strengths and not exploit his weakness. This coaching staff is playing favorites and it doesn't matter how hard those other kids work.

Everybody is not blind. We see the shortcomings of Bret.

[onebadrubi]

yeah, but the changes thus far don't seem to have made a major impact.  The line still looked like there are some of the same issues from last year.

Whats the one liner, doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different outcome is insanity? 

Look, I am not wondering myself why Wallace and Merrick haven't cracked the depth chart, go back and look at the recruitment of both I was high on them and excited to get them.  But Clary has not given us a single reason to question why he is at RG, especially to the degree some of the agenda drive wacko's are on here.  Bielema has given us reasons to question his ability, you don't have to fabricate one thus far that is bogus to put the guys tenure down at Arkansas. 

For instances, there is legit reason to question why we continue to see DS back returning kicks with some more guys on the team appearing to be more illusive, have a quicker first step, and faster. 

[PorkRinds]

Why move Gibson to tackle when he had a dominating performance against Florida at guard. If Im a coach on want to build on his strengths and not exploit his weakness. This coaching staff is playing favorites and it doesn't matter how hard those other kids work.

Everybody is not blind. We see the shortcomings of Bret.

Where's your evidence?

[GuvHog]

Why move Gibson to tackle when he had a dominating performance against Florida at guard. If Im a coach on want to build on his strengths and not exploit his weakness. This coaching staff is playing favorites and it doesn't matter how hard those other kids work.

Everybody is not blind. We see the shortcomings of Bret.

Has it ever occurred to you that Gibson most likely was moved to Tackle because Wallace wasn't getting the job done there??

[onebadrubi]

Why move Gibson to tackle when he had a dominating performance against Florida at guard. If Im a coach on want to build on his strengths and not exploit his weakness. This coaching staff is playing favorites and it doesn't matter how hard those other kids work.

Everybody is not blind. We see the shortcomings of Bret.

Really?  The obvious answer says Clary can get the job done in placement of Gibson at RG and Gibson gives us the most powerful and best option at RT.  Am I right?  we will never exactly know, but to sit here and question the move of Clary to RG when he isn't making mistakes and have pages upon pages about is he technically a scholarship palyer or not is just DUMB.  He's currently a starting RG as a freshman in the SEC. 

You are only making the favorites comment because you are poor at coming up with anything, it shows you are lacking a real thought process to see the big picture.  It's like arguing with a 5 year old.

[island hog]

Where's your evidence?

You know squat about what you're saying other than you don't like our HC and will say just about anything to justify your feelings. 

[Letsroll1200]

Really?  The obvious answer says Clary can get the job done in placement of Gibson at RG and Gibson gives us the most powerful and best option at RT.  Am I right?  we will never exactly know, but to sit here and question the move of Clary to RG when he isn't making mistakes and have pages upon pages about is he technically a scholarship palyer or not is just DUMB.  He's currently a starting RG as a freshman in the SEC.

I've seen Gibson against SEC competition. He held his own and at times dominated. I watched the game against Florida again last week and he played great against one of the best defenses. If Clary is Bret's guy than the criticism will fall on Bret.
Why didnt this staff build on that momentum? The kid went in and asked to play. How many more players are in his position.

[PorkRinds]

  You know squat about what you're saying other than you don't like our HC and will say just about anything to justify your feelings.

Say what?

[Letsroll1200]

Where's your evidence?

TCU 28 Arkansas 7. It wasn't even that close.

[PorkRinds]

TCU 28 Arkansas 7. It wasn't even that close.

Weak sauce.

[The_Iceman]

yeah, but the changes thus far don't seem to have made a major impact.  The line still looked like there are some of the same issues from last year.

We marginally improved pass protection at the expense of run blocking.

[island hog]

  You know squat about what you're saying other than you don't like our HC and will say just about anything to justify your feelings. 
[/q

Say what?

was meant for Letsroller dude

[GuvHog]

TCU 28 Arkansas 7. It wasn't even that close.

Actually it was closer than the score indicates. It was 14-7 in the 4th Quarter.

[The_Iceman]

Look at the rushing yards and lack of O-line push and tell me why it will be any better against Texas a&m. I'll wait for a response but I know there won't be one......

[PorkRinds]

Coach B seemed like Stewart wouldn't be returning kicks in his presser. Mentioned Warren and Cross.

[al_pigcino]

Actually it was closer than the score indicates. It was 14-7 in the 4th Quarter.

If only football played 14 minutes quarters we would have only lost by a TD!

[GuvHog]

Look at the rushing yards and lack of O-line push and tell me why it will be any better against Texas a&m. I'll wait for a response but I know there won't be one......

Simple. The Hos passing game will be much, much better and that will open up the running game because A&M's defense won't be able to load the box like TCU did.

[onebadrubi]

TCU 28 Arkansas 7. It wasn't even that close.

That's evidence that coach is playing favorites?  That's like saying Mike Anderson sucks and should be fired after going 72-59 and getting beat by inferior teams back to back.  There is a bigger picture there, but your aren't capable of seeing it.  Just like the end of score of that game does absolutely nothing to prove anyhting about favorites, just shows you are shoving an agenda and hatred of Bielema. 

[Letsroll1200]

That's evidence that coach is playing favorites?  That's like saying Mike Anderson sucks and should be fired after going 72-59 and getting beat by inferior teams back to back.  There is a bigger picture there, but your aren't capable of seeing it.  Just like the end of score of that game does absolutely nothing to prove anyhting about favorites, just shows you are shoving an agenda and hatred of Bielema.

Froholdt looked bad at times last season but coach B stuck with him. Why? Play on the field? It's 3 years of bad football and underperformance.
I like how you bring up coach Mike.

[Wildhog]

Froholdt looked bad at times last season but coach B stuck with him. Why? Play on the field? It's 3 years of bad football and underperformance.
I like how you bring up coach Mike.

I think he liked Froholdt's upside and decided it was worth the growing pains to get him experience.

[Letsroll1200]

That's evidence that coach is playing favorites?  That's like saying Mike Anderson sucks and should be fired after going 72-59 and getting beat by inferior teams back to back.  There is a bigger picture there, but your aren't capable of seeing it.  Just like the end of score of that game does absolutely nothing to prove anyhting about favorites, just shows you are shoving an agenda and hatred of Bielema.

Just go and rewatch the Florida game on youtube. Watch Gibson at guard and Wallace at tackle.

[texas tush hog]

no cole Hedlund

Hopefully no missed PAT's.

[Letsroll1200]

I think he liked Froholdt's upside and decided it was worth the growing pains to get him experience.

That's fair. Just come out and say I'm stucking with him. That had to give Froholdt so much confidence knowing the coach is stucking by me no matter what. I wonder how the locker room feels?

[texas tush hog]

Didn't you read in the paper that Bielema said he called Hedlund in on Sunday and checked on his personal well being? He cares about this player. He just cannot use him.

Had not read that, good to know.

[onebadrubi]

Just go and rewatch the Florida game on youtube. Watch Gibson at guard and Wallace at tackle.

Yeah, lets go watch that Florida game, you know the game where we looked like we could beat anyone in the country.  You do realize we played 12 other games last year, right?

[Letsroll1200]

Yeah, lets go watch that Florida game, you know the game where we looked like we could beat anyone in the country.  You do realize we played 12 other games last year, right?

This was Gibson first game.

[onebadrubi]

This was Gibson first game.

you keep up with your narrative.  Enjoy being dense

[The_Iceman]

Simple. The Hos passing game will be much, much better and that will open up the running game because A&M's defense won't be able to load the box like TCU did.

What makes you think the passing game will be so much better?

[IronHog]

you keep up with your narrative.  Enjoy being dense

Gibson is thier best run blocker.  At guard

[lakecityhog]

My only evidence that our O'Line situation is not good would be 2 different series of 1st and goal from inside the 5 yard line and 2 missed field goals as a result. How much more evidence than that do you need to convince you???

No knock on Clary, but the simple fact is that Anderson told him that we only had 1 scholarship left for the O'Line and that was for a tackle. He told him that as a guard he would be one of his first offers. But, again his only actual scholarship offer was Tulsa. And truthfully this isn't about Clary!

This is about moving a former walkon guard out to replace a returning starter at tackle and replacing him with a true freshman walkon/blue shirt. If Gibson were the better tackle why didn't he play there last year?

Some mention Burlsworth, well as I recall Burls did NOT start as a true freshman, he did not start as a redshirt freshman, nor did he start as a redshirt sophomore. I believe that Burls started as a redshirt junior. The key word in all of that was REDSHIRT!!! Bursl made all-american as a redshirt 5th year senior. When I think of Clary I wonder just how good he might have been as a redshirt 5th year senior.

IF we have a blocking system so complicated that kids struggle to learn it, maybe the system is the real problem???  We have struggled ever since Anderson darkened our door and he is just a symptom of the problem. Look at what K Smart did when he took over at Georgia, he looked around and chose the BEST O'Line coach that he could find and went and took him. He didn't sit around for a month a leaf thru applications from guys looking to upgrade their own position.

Has there been one job opening here that BB went out and took one of the top 5 guys in the country? And don't you dare try to tell me that an assistant wouldn't even listen to him, they are all mercenaries. MONEY talks and if you want the best you had better be ready to pay for it.

[onebadrubi]

My only evidence that our O'Line situation is not good would be 2 different series of 1st and goal from inside the 5 yard line and 2 missed field goals as a result. How much more evidence than that do you need to convince you???

No knock on Clary, but the simple fact is that Anderson told him that we only had 1 scholarship left for the O'Line and that was for a tackle. He told him that as a guard he would be one of his first offers. But, again his only actual scholarship offer was Tulsa. And truthfully this isn't about Clary!

This is about moving a former walkon guard out to replace a returning starter at tackle and replacing him with a true freshman walkon/blue shirt. If Gibson were the better tackle why didn't he play there last year?

Some mention Burlsworth, well as I recall Burls did NOT start as a true freshman, he did not start as a redshirt freshman, nor did he start as a redshirt sophomore. I believe that Burls started as a redshirt junior. The key word in all of that was REDSHIRT!!! Bursl made all-american as a redshirt 5th year senior. When I think of Clary I wonder just how good he might have been as a redshirt 5th year senior.

IF we have a blocking system so complicated that kids struggle to learn it, maybe the system is the real problem???  We have struggled ever since Anderson darkened our door and he is just a symptom of the problem. Look at what K Smart did when he took over at Georgia, he looked around and chose the BEST O'Line coach that he could find and went and took him. He didn't sit around for a month a leaf thru applications from guys looking to upgrade their own position.

Has there been one job opening here that BB went out and took one of the top 5 guys in the country? And don't you dare try to tell me that an assistant wouldn't even listen to him, they are all mercenaries. MONEY talks and if you want the best you had better be ready to pay for it.

The first time inside the 5 was a 6 yard run on first down to set it up by DW, second down he got stuffed, third down was an incomplete pass.  The second time we got down there it was a nice run of 13 yards to get it down to the three yard line by DW, then a stuffed run right after that, then an incomplete pass. 

We are predictable on that play calling right there.  Neither time did Clary fail to do his job however. 

I think a lot of you guys are forgetting some games like Mizzou where AA was getting bum rushed from both tackle positions.  I'm tired of arguing this with fools who are dense and only pushing a narrative.  It's amazing how many peoples thoughts on this line up with their views of the staff inside of having an independent thought or intellectual thought.  (this last comment/paragraph is not pointed to the poster I quoted)

[onebadrubi]

Complete incompetence. It's not just the offensive line.

We see it at TE, WR, and KR/PR as well.

This idea that games will go exactly how you practice is utter foolishness. To win, you play your studs and maximize their talent. This is the SEC. Not JV high school ball.

Anyone that's watched football can see the talent that is being underused and wasted on this team.

What talent at TE, WR, and KR/PR is being over looked?  Keep in mind Bielema said today that KR/PR is open currently for competition. 

[lakecityhog]

Rubi, I made a point to say that my post wasn't actually about Clary and it wasn't.  In another thread it was mentioned that Clary "fits" better with our offensive philosophy of quicker more flexible O'Linemen than the "road graders" sitting on the bench.
My response is that if we want to run an offense that requires pulling and such then why when we get down inside the 5 yard line do we call plays that require "road grader" type blocking?

I am generally sick of hearing how it's the players, I have been hearing that for going on 5 years now. When exactly does the coaching staff have any responsibility in this whole process? I constantly read on this very board that "Stars Matter" but then with our O'Line it is "play the best and to heck with stars"!

Did we and the recruiting services actually miss out on all 5 of our 4* O'Linemen as well as missing out on our 2 former walk-ons/ blueshirt?? 0-6??