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Arkansas is 1-13 in SEC Championship games

Started by HognotinMemphis, May 29, 2017, 11:22:58 am

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AirWarren

Quote from: GuvHog on May 30, 2017, 10:46:13 am
Florida won the SEC Championship game in 2006 but they didn't dominate the Hogs in that game, they escaped with a win.

Who has the SEC championship trophy though in their trophy case?

PORKULATOR

So.... We're good but not Champions. It kinda feels that way.
Everytime I reach a goal or achieve something new in life, someone's beat me there and wrote f♡€% you all over it - JD Salinger
I've got a fever and the only perscription...  is more cowbell.- THE Bruce Dickenson.

 

ricepig

Quote from: PORKULATOR on May 30, 2017, 12:05:37 pm
So.... We're good but not Champions. It kinda feels that way.

Tenner's claimed that Champions of Life title,  we're still searching for ours.

Jborohog09

The basketball team has two regular season SEC titles, too.  Albeit it's been over twenty years since those, but I'm still surprised no one has brought those up.

Jek Tono Porkins

The basketball team in '94 didn't even get to the tournament champion game and the '95 team lost the tournament championship game. What does that matter when they were champions and runner-up, respectively?
I have known the troubles I was born to know
I have wanted things a poor man's born to want
And in all my dreams and memories I go running
Through the fields of Arkansas from which I sprung

phadedhawg

Our championship game experience kinda lines up with our football team's bowl record.  Our bowl record has improved a bit in later years but historically we normally lose those games.

DeltaBoy

Quote from: Lanny on May 30, 2017, 06:48:40 am
1-13 is one thing but not even being competitive in the majority of the losses is another


I agree life as a Hog fan been ruff since we joined the SEC.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

AirWarren

May 30, 2017, 01:12:44 pm #57 Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 01:36:26 pm by AP85
We are like the Cleveland of college sports.

BELIEVILLE, AR

Hollywood_HOGan45

Success in basketball and especially in baseball shouldn't be measured by conference Tournament championships.

Hollywood_HOGan45

Quote from: Jek Tono Porkins on May 30, 2017, 12:29:10 pm
The basketball team in '94 didn't even get to the tournament champion game and the '95 team lost the tournament championship game. What does that matter when they were champions and runner-up, respectively?

THIS!
I wouldn't trade places with the 95 Kentucky team in a million years.
They beat us for the SEC title but didn't reach the final four. Arkansas did.

Kentucky also beat us in the SEC semis in 94 but lost to Maryland in the second round of the NCAA. We won the whole thing.

phadedhawg

Quote from: Surfing8 on May 30, 2017, 01:23:02 pm
I don't either, but considering the low bar of expectations around here regarding actual scores, I threw the fat POS a bone and acknowledged the generally accepted notion of Bielema being handy with witticisms. 



Life of the party this one is....

DeltaBoy

Reminds me of Molly Hatchets Dreams I 'll never see.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

Hogwild

Quote from: oldbooniehog on May 29, 2017, 07:07:51 pm
And some Hog fans whine and moan that Arkansas doesn't get any respect in the national media.

This type of performance in SEC title games across the three big men's sports is why.

It also points to another thing I just cannot wrap my head around.

There are a number of Hog fans who yell "Fire Tha Coach!" when the coach can't win the big game.

With results like these, what coach could in what sport?

I think Nolan Richardson was the only one to win an SEC title game. And that was what, 17 years ago?

Arkansas isn't snakebit.

Arkansas isn't cursed.

Arkansas is simply a second-rate program, across the board. Pretty much has been for about 25 years now.

I would say our baseball program is more second- tier than second rate.

 

Dirttrackhog

well here is another interesting fact, Arkansas has more total national championships than any other team in the SEC.

Sweet Feet

Quote from: Dirttrackhog on May 30, 2017, 03:36:59 pm
well here is another interesting fact, Arkansas has more total national championships than any other team in the SEC.
Arkansas is a top 5 track program. Theres only 2 titles outside of track/cross country  that arkansas has won lol

Hogwild

Quote from: Dirttrackhog on May 30, 2017, 03:36:59 pm
well here is another interesting fact, Arkansas has more total national championships than any other team in the SEC.

Depends on if you include football in your totals.

We have 1 more NCAA championship than LSU, but they have 3 more overall national titles. 

Shorttimer

This whole thread is like a circle jerk for flaccid 85-year-olds.  Every stroke makes the grumpy grumpier.

Welcome home, HiM. 

GoHogs1091

Quote from: HoginMemphis on May 29, 2017, 11:22:58 am
in football, baseball and men's basketball. Football is 0-3, basketball is 1-6 and baseball is 0-4.

The University of Arkansas Athletic Department doesn't care about winning championships.  The UofA Athletic Department cares about the athletic events being social events so people can be seen and so people can hob-knob.

Then people can go home and during the days between the athletic events the people can talk about how "big-time" are the UofA athletic programs.

The athletic events are "feel good" events. 

ricepig

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on May 30, 2017, 05:27:41 pm
The University of Arkansas Athletic Department doesn't care about winning championships.  The UofA Athletic Department cares about the athletic events being social events so people can be seen and so people can hob-knob.

Then people can go home and during the days between the athletic events the people can talk about how "big-time" are the UofA athletic programs.

The athletic events are "feel good" events. 

How many athletic events do you go to each year?

Birminghog

Quote from: Ex-Trumpet on May 29, 2017, 12:02:37 pm
There's still a paper?

There hasn't been a paper since the Gazette went away.

GoHogs1091

Quote from: ricepig on May 30, 2017, 06:58:28 pm
How many athletic events do you go to each year?

Is a loaded question.

If I were to answer by saying not very many, then I would be chastised for not financially supporting the athletic programs, and I would be chastised for commenting on the events (the ole proverbial, "how can you comment on them since you don't go to very many of them").

If I were to answer by saying many of them, then I would be chastised with the ole proverbial "you must really like the events since you go to many of them."

ricepig

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on May 30, 2017, 07:20:52 pm
Is a loaded question.

If I were to answer by saying not very many, then I would be chastised for not financially supporting the athletic programs, and I would be chastised for commenting on the events (the ole proverbial, "how can you comment on them since you don't go to very many of them").

If I were to answer by saying many of them, then I would be chastised with the ole proverbial "you must really like the events since you go to many of them."

It's easy to read your answer from that, and it's what I expected from you.

GoHogs1091

Quote from: ricepig on May 30, 2017, 07:27:45 pm
It's easy to read your answer from that, and it's what I expected from you.

You would make a good Lawyer.

A good Lawyer in the sense of being very judgemental with not very many facts to back up your opinions/claims.

onebadrubi

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on May 30, 2017, 07:48:25 pm
You would make a good Lawyer.

A good Lawyer in the sense of being very judgemental with not very many facts to back up your opinions/claims.

You don't go and you are avoiding the question.  It's really not a loaded question by the definition of loaded question, but you bs'd your response to make t sound loaded. 

You're idea of what u of a athletic events are and intentions by the AD are just stupid.

 

ricepig

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on May 30, 2017, 07:48:25 pm
You would make a good Lawyer.

A good Lawyer in the sense of being very judgemental with not very many facts to back up your opinions/claims.

Well, a Supreme Court Justice is a lawyer, so yeah, probably so.

BigSexyHog

Lebron raised money for kids... Rotnei stole crap from the equipment room

oldbooniehog

Surfing8, ah yes. Laugh in my face.

Only the numbers and facts bear out Arkansas's baseball program as being good, but not great, and not quite first rate.

Under Van Horn, Arkansas is at the very top of the heap of second-tier programs.

Before I throw out numbers, I want to say I'm not bashing Dave Van Horn. I think he's done a heck of a job at Arkansas. But Arkansas just isn't a first-rate, great baseball program.

While sometimes flirting with greatness, Arkansas baseball has never quite reached greatness.

The program's high point so far is losing to Cal State Fullerton in the finals of the College World Series, 38 years ago.

So far, at its best, Hog baseball is pretty much the most-Arkansas thing ever, upholding the long, proud Razorback tradition of getting close, but somehow not quite getting it done.

To be a "first rate" college baseball team, here's the criteria I would throw out.

Win A National Championship -- Not required, but really helpful.

Frequently be in the College World Series. Not every year, but a lot. 

Frequently be a National Seed for the NCAA baseball tournament.

Frequently host a regional in the NCAA baseball tournament.

Frequently win its conference title, either regular season or post-season tournament.

Since 2003, when Dave Van Horn was hired, here's what various websites say Arkansas has done.

National Championships -- 0

CWS appearances -- 4

National Seeds -- 2 (2004, 2007. None in last 10 years)

NCAA regional hosting -- 6 (2017 is first host in 7 years)

Regular season SEC titles - 1 (13 years ago)

Post-season SEC titles - 0.

Just for comparison, in the same period of time, LSU has won outright or tied for 5 regular season conference titles, and won 6 conference tournament titles, along with one National Championship.

Arkansas baseball under Van Horn has been good, very good at times.

But has never quite gotten over the hump and never been really great.

I would argue you can say "Arkansas is one of the best NCAA baseball programs....to never win its (current) conference tournament, not win a regular season conference title for the last 13 years and not be a national seed for the past decade."

With all those qualifiers, it's hard to see "first rate" as a valid description.

Could that turn around this year, if the Hogs catch fire, make it to Omaha and win it all?

Maybe.

In basketball, the Duke Blue Devils made it to 8 Final Fours before winning it all.

The knock on Coach K used to be he was the best college basketball coach to never win a National Championship, as his Blue Devils went to three consecutive Final Fours before they finally won a title.

The knock on the Denver Broncos used to be they were the best NFL team to never win a Super Bowl, despite playing in it 4 times before finally winning it in 1998.

On the flip side, nobody thinks the Buffalo Bills are a "first rate" NFL team, despite the fact they made 4 Super Bowls in a row, because they lost all four.

So yes, I say Arkansas baseball is one of the absolute best of the second-tier teams.

And they are a second-tier team because that's what the numbers say they are. A good team, sometimes very good. But never great, because they have not really accomplished what great, first-rate programs accomplish. At least not so far.


sowmonella

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on May 30, 2017, 05:27:41 pm
The University of Arkansas Athletic Department doesn't care about winning championships.  The UofA Athletic Department cares about the athletic events being social events so people can be seen and so people can hob-knob.

Then people can go home and during the days between the athletic events the people can talk about how "big-time" are the UofA athletic programs.

The athletic events are "feel good" events. 

I've been going to UA games for 25 plus years and I have never seen the "there to be seen"Hob Nob" "social events" and "wine & cheese " crowds that folks like you keep talking about. I only see Hog Fans. Pssttt... your envy is showing and it ain't pretty.
Not trying to brag or make anyone jealous but I can still fit into the same pair of socks I wore in high school.
Proud member since August 2003

TebowHater

Quote from: EastexHawg on May 30, 2017, 09:09:42 am
Dave Van Horn has taken four Razorback teams to the College World Series.  That's the equivalent of four BCS bowl games as head Hog for Bret Bielema and four Elite Eights at Arkansas for Mike Anderson.

There are differing degrees of "hasn't won a championship".

Exactly.

Also made the equivalent of the Final Four on at least one occasion. We were a game away from the title series.

HogPhilosophy

How many times have we been favored in these games?

LZH

Quote from: Shorttimer on May 30, 2017, 04:59:40 pm
This whole thread is like a circle jerk for flaccid 85-year-olds.  Every stroke makes the grumpy grumpier.

Welcome home, HiM. 

I could have totally done just fine without this gem....

Razorback7281

Quote from: oldbooniehog on May 30, 2017, 08:08:38 pm
Surfing8, ah yes. Laugh in my face.

Only the numbers and facts bear out Arkansas's baseball program as being good, but not great, and not quite first rate.

Under Van Horn, Arkansas is at the very top of the heap of second-tier programs.

Before I throw out numbers, I want to say I'm not bashing Dave Van Horn. I think he's done a heck of a job at Arkansas. But Arkansas just isn't a first-rate, great baseball program.

While sometimes flirting with greatness, Arkansas baseball has never quite reached greatness.

The program's high point so far is losing to Cal State Fullerton in the finals of the College World Series, 38 years ago.

So far, at its best, Hog baseball is pretty much the most-Arkansas thing ever, upholding the long, proud Razorback tradition of getting close, but somehow not quite getting it done.

To be a "first rate" college baseball team, here's the criteria I would throw out.

Win A National Championship -- Not required, but really helpful.

Frequently be in the College World Series. Not every year, but a lot. 

Frequently be a National Seed for the NCAA baseball tournament.

Frequently host a regional in the NCAA baseball tournament.

Frequently win its conference title, either regular season or post-season tournament.

Since 2003, when Dave Van Horn was hired, here's what various websites say Arkansas has done.

National Championships -- 0

CWS appearances -- 4

National Seeds -- 2 (2004, 2007. None in last 10 years)

NCAA regional hosting -- 6 (2017 is first host in 7 years)

Regular season SEC titles - 1 (13 years ago)

Post-season SEC titles - 0.

Just for comparison, in the same period of time, LSU has won outright or tied for 5 regular season conference titles, and won 6 conference tournament titles, along with one National Championship.

Arkansas baseball under Van Horn has been good, very good at times.

But has never quite gotten over the hump and never been really great.

I would argue you can say "Arkansas is one of the best NCAA baseball programs....to never win its (current) conference tournament, not win a regular season conference title for the last 13 years and not be a national seed for the past decade."

With all those qualifiers, it's hard to see "first rate" as a valid description.

Could that turn around this year, if the Hogs catch fire, make it to Omaha and win it all?

Maybe.

In basketball, the Duke Blue Devils made it to 8 Final Fours before winning it all.

The knock on Coach K used to be he was the best college basketball coach to never win a National Championship, as his Blue Devils went to three consecutive Final Fours before they finally won a title.

The knock on the Denver Broncos used to be they were the best NFL team to never win a Super Bowl, despite playing in it 4 times before finally winning it in 1998.

On the flip side, nobody thinks the Buffalo Bills are a "first rate" NFL team, despite the fact they made 4 Super Bowls in a row, because they lost all four.

So yes, I say Arkansas baseball is one of the absolute best of the second-tier teams.

And they are a second-tier team because that's what the numbers say they are. A good team, sometimes very good. But never great, because they have not really accomplished what great, first-rate programs accomplish. At least not so far.


You think Florida State is an elite baseball program?  They've been to Omaha 21 times and have won a grand total of 0 national titles. Coastal Carolina has been to Omaha once. That's it one time last year and won it all. Are they elite?  They didn't even make the tournament this year.

Which SEC team has the most former players in the big leagues right now. According to you a second tier program. That's right Arkansas has the most active players in the big leagues right now.
Quote from: mckinneyhog5 on September 16, 2015, 08:55:43 pmgurantee I'm smarter then you..but that's not saying much.
Quote from: talley on September 17, 2015, 09:53:38 am
you misspelled "Guarantee" while trying to talk about how smart you are.  Epic Fail.
Quote from: Lanny on October 16, 2015, 07:37:58 am
Good job everyone except Faldon.

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on May 30, 2017, 07:48:25 pm
You would make a good Lawyer.

A good Lawyer in the sense of being very judgemental with not very many facts to back up your opinions/claims.
Well whether one is considered to be "judgmental" IMO depends on whether that person has all the facts to begin with. As you didn't directly answer that question then one is left to his/her own opinion in order to draw any sort of conclusion. Simple solution: respond to the query with a definite answer and then others won't be forced to draw their now conclusion(s) (i.e. judgments). :-X :-\

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: Dirttrackhog on May 30, 2017, 03:36:59 pm
well here is another interesting fact, Arkansas has more total national championships than any other team in the SEC.
What if we also include tiddliwinks, checkers, hopscotch, golf and tennis?
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

Hawgar The Horrible

Quote from: HoginMemphis on May 31, 2017, 09:55:52 am
What if we also include tiddliwinks, checkers, hopscotch, golf and tennis?

Arkansas still leads.
There are fans and there are supporters. The latter carries the weight.

booth1249

I think when you look at the resources that the Athletic Department has invested into baseball compared to other schools around the country we have underachieved.  How many schools actually care about their baseball program? 

gchamblee

Quote from: HoginMemphis on May 31, 2017, 09:55:52 am
What if we also include tiddliwinks, checkers, hopscotch, golf and tennis?

What if some fans enjoy sports that you don't? Why does that offend you? Don't you get exhausted trying to convince everyone that your way is the only way and your opinion is the only opinion? Every time I read one of your posts I see your name as HogInMenstrualPain.

Porked Tongue


code red

Bottom line is we yack in big games..... unfortunately.
"If what you did yesterday seems big, you haven't done anything today."  Dr. Lou

(notOM)Rebel123

Quote from: Shorttimer on May 30, 2017, 04:59:40 pm
This whole thread is like a circle jerk for flaccid 85-year-olds.  Every stroke makes the grumpy grumpier.

Welcome home, HiM. 

Maybe we should have a contest...?

"Knowledge is Good"....Emil Faber

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: HoginMemphis on May 30, 2017, 10:14:20 am
Unfortunately, in football, the Hogs have gotten their asses whipped in the 3 SECCG's they have participated in. So while 2nd best, it was a distant second those 3 times. So as Lanny referenced above, it is one thing to be successful only 1 out of 13 chances but it is another thing to not be competitive in most of the 13 chances once you get to the championship game. Certainly that has been the case in the 3 SECCG's in football.

Not in 2006 vs. FL, but I get the overall point.

I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Razor1997

It would be 2-12, if Hootie had just taught our special teams guys to not try to field a punt while backpedaling at the 5 yard line with 11 guys bearing down on you.

Ex-Trumpet

Quote from: Vantage 8 dude on May 29, 2017, 03:08:08 pm
So getting to various championship games but not winning makes us irrelevant? While I totally agree/goes without saying that actually WINNING more of these games would make a HUGE difference, remember that a team has to at least qualify as one of the best two SEC teams in whatever sport in order to play for the championship. And keep in mind that means you're one of the two best out of FOURTEEN league teams.

What we obviously need to be doing a better job is "closing the deal'. Finally getting over the hump and getting the win for the whole deal-has totally nothing to do with being irrelevant. Being irrelevant in whatever sport(s) would be never qualifying to begin with.

In bold...this is rarely the case in the SEC.
Do dyslexic, agnostic insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog?

oldgoat

Quote from: GuvHog on May 30, 2017, 10:46:13 am
Florida won the SEC Championship game in 2006 but they didn't dominate the Hogs in that game, they escaped with a win.

Truth.  Looking at UF's sideline they were scared.
Hoglady: "Some things in life are only a big deal when you make them a big deal."

DLUXHOG

Quote from: DLUXHOG on May 29, 2017, 12:28:56 pm
but..... our championships (both of them), since they are far and few between mean so much more to us than the myriads that someone like, say Alabama has... (but then, we are overlooking the bazillion we have in track and field aren't we, which puts the HOGS as NUMBER 1 in total championships in the SEC and 7th in all of college sports among all colleges https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_schools_with_the_most_NCAA_Division_I_championships, and that would be 5th in the nation if you only count men's sports...)

Bump... it appears most of you have missed this link.............
"Don't go in anyplace you'd be ashamed to die in..."
(you might get this someday)

HognitiveDissonance

What the 1-13 number tells me is that usually overachieving Arkansas did very well and beat a lot of teams to make those games, but typically ran into a better opponent.
Some would say they 'didn't close the deal', 'they choked', 'they spit the bit when the opportunity is there', etc. I don't believe so. Usually, Ark did well just to be there. Go back and analyze those 14 contests and decide 'how many of those 14 games was Arkansas the favorites in?'.

I bet the answer would be zero.

This past weekend is a good example. Ark had an incredible SEC Tournament in Hoover. Beat three very salty teams 11-0, 9-2, 16-0, pitched a no-hitter, had a guy act like Barry Bonds, etc. But then they ran into a better ballclub in LSU, who also had played fewer games. Great tourney, played a better team, and came up a little short.

When you consider the totality of the situation, though, how many athletic programs would you trade places with, if you're an Arkansas fan? You would love to cherry-pick Alabama football...or LSU baseball...or this and that. But add it all up and you would be hard-pressed to find a more-rounded program. Maybe Florida...maybe LSU.

DeltaBoy

If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

oldbooniehog

Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on June 02, 2017, 03:11:03 pm
What the 1-13 number tells me is that usually overachieving Arkansas did very well and beat a lot of teams to make those games, but typically ran into a better opponent.
Some would say they 'didn't close the deal', 'they choked', 'they spit the bit when the opportunity is there', etc. I don't believe so. Usually, Ark did well just to be there. Go back and analyze those 14 contests and decide 'how many of those 14 games was Arkansas the favorites in?'.

I bet the answer would be zero.

This past weekend is a good example. Ark had an incredible SEC Tournament in Hoover. Beat three very salty teams 11-0, 9-2, 16-0, pitched a no-hitter, had a guy act like Barry Bonds, etc. But then they ran into a better ballclub in LSU, who also had played fewer games. Great tourney, played a better team, and came up a little short.

When you consider the totality of the situation, though, how many athletic programs would you trade places with, if you're an Arkansas fan? You would love to cherry-pick Alabama football...or LSU baseball...or this and that. But add it all up and you would be hard-pressed to find a more-rounded program. Maybe Florida...maybe LSU.

Exactly.

Arkansas making it to a Championship game is "over achieving."

Hallmark of a second-rate program.

Just happy to be there. Not going to actually win anything.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

oldbooniehog

Quote from: Razorback7281 on May 31, 2017, 03:35:03 am
You think Florida State is an elite baseball program?  They've been to Omaha 21 times and have won a grand total of 0 national titles. Coastal Carolina has been to Omaha once. That's it one time last year and won it all. Are they elite?  They didn't even make the tournament this year.

Which SEC team has the most former players in the big leagues right now. According to you a second tier program. That's right Arkansas has the most active players in the big leagues right now.

Razorback7281, thank you for making my point even better than I did originally.

Florida State is not elite, you say.

However, Florida State has been to the College World Series 21 times?

Arkansas has been there only 8.

If Florida State is not elite, as you say, they're still almost 3 times more elite than Arkansas.

As for Coastal Carolina, how many of the things on my list do they check off?

It's not my fault if you have reading comprehension problems.

Wolfpride

Maybe, just maybe, Frank Broyles kicking Billy Graham's dog in his office before the '69 Shootout started transcending football and into other sports.  Ah, the curse!
"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things.  And no good thing ever dies"
Andy Dufresne