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SB Nation: THE SPREAD OFFENSE HAS CHANGED FOOTBALL FOREVER

Started by MuskogeeHogFan, November 12, 2017, 11:53:08 am

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MuskogeeHogFan

Interesting article that describes the foundations of the Spread to where we are now. I'd suggest that this might be the direction that the Hogs are going in the future.

The spread offense scatters players wide all across the field. It's designed to be distribution-friendly. It forces defenses to worry about every eligible ball carrier on the field, and horizontal inches as well as vertical.

The spread has taken over from coast to coast, from high school to the NFL. It's now an indelible part of football offenses everywhere.

I think it varies, it changes, with who you ask. I think 15 years ago, a spread offense was classified as a four-wide, shotgun team. But now, I don't think you can say that, because there are so many different personnel groupings. There's so many different offensive philosophies within that now that it's changed. So I think my definition of a spread offense is gonna be different than somebody else who runs a spread offense.

To us, it's truly making the defense defend the entire field. In college, the spread offense is an equalizer. If your team can't recruit elite linemen, a wide-open offense might be the way to mitigate the talent gap.

People want exciting football. The fans want it. The ADs wanna fill the seats, and kids wanna play in offenses that score a lot of points and are exciting. The quarterbacks want it. The receivers want it. Even the defensive players wanna play in a program that can score a lot of points. So I don't know if things will ever go back to 21 personnel and 12 personnel, a couple tight ends and a cloud of dust.


Look for this in our next HC.

https://www.sbnation.com/a/cfb-preview-2017/spread-offense
Go Hogs Go!

Hawginj


 

RockyMtnHog

Arkansas did very well in the Power Spread a few years ago.  Look for some form of the spread to return.

We no longer have the elite lineman that it takes to be a power running team.
"On the Eighth Day, God created the Razorbacks!"

Con el Cerdos

"To us, it's truly making the defense defend the entire field. In college, the spread offense is an equalizer. If your team can't recruit elite linemen, a wide-open offense might be the way to mitigate the talent gap."

Been saying it for years, Arkansas, since it entered the SEC has never been able to level the field recruiting.

So. . . .you have to do something to, otherwise, level the playing field.

Answer is a good to great coach and the spread.

Maybe, the OP is right; this time we go after someone that can teach and coach the spread offense of his choice.

Two I loved was the Leach spread and Briles spread.  Similar, but Briles loved running the ball probably a little more.

TeufelHog


Birminghog

MHF, a question to you and others who are knowledgable. I'm not necessarily a fan of the spread, but considering what we are learning about long-term health issues, does the spread provide a safer offense from a health and injury perspective? Are there fewer violent collisions?

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: Con el Cerdos on November 12, 2017, 12:13:53 pm
"To us, it's truly making the defense defend the entire field. In college, the spread offense is an equalizer. If your team can't recruit elite linemen, a wide-open offense might be the way to mitigate the talent gap."

Been saying it for years, Arkansas, since it entered the SEC has never been able to level the field recruiting.

So. . . .you have to do something to, otherwise, level the playing field.

Answer is a good to great coach and the spread.

Maybe, the OP is right; this time we go after someone that can teach and coach the spread offense of his choice.

Two I loved was the Leach spread and Briles spread.  Similar, but Briles loved running the ball probably a little more.

Briles spread is putting the wr's outside the numbers and forcing the defense to spread as much as possible to get numbers in the box.  Simply count defenders in box to decide run or pass.  Oline have wide splits to try and create running lanes.  Dino Babers runs it at Syracuse.  This is a hurry up spread too.

The Urban Meyer/Dan Mullen spread is much more about power.  MSU used one and sometimes 2 TE's last night to run on Bama.  Not hurry up.  Requires a physical qb though who is a true RPO.  I would prefer this in the SEC as it doesn't put your defense on the field so much and maintains a physical presence in the program. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: TeufelHog on November 12, 2017, 12:14:46 pm
Offense wins GAMES.  Defense wins CHAMPIONSHIPS!

We aren't going to be able to recruit enough talent at Arkansas these days to have a top notch, shut down defense. Maybe if we get a coach who can win enough games consistently over several years, we might have a chance. Even a great defensive scheme isn't enough if you don't have talent levels similar to the teams that you play in conference. With the Pro Style you better have a great defense. The Spread tends to put more points on the board which takes the pressure off the defense to have to perform at a higher level. JMO
Go Hogs Go!

Ex-Trumpet

I think we may have isolated the problem..."spread" could very well mean peanut butter, jelly, or some condiments to those so inclined.
Do dyslexic, agnostic insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog?

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on November 12, 2017, 12:25:13 pm
We aren't going to be able to recruit enough talent at Arkansas these days to have a top notch, shut down defense. Maybe if we get a coach who can win enough games consistently over several years, we might have a chance. Even a great defensive scheme isn't enough if you don't have talent levels similar to the teams that you play in conference. With the Pro Style you better have a great defense. The Spread tends to put more points on the board which takes the pressure off the defense to have to perform at a higher level. JMO

Or competent defense and a great running game to limit possessions. 

What my concern is we go B12 and try it to play it in the SEC.  A&M under Sumlin with less talent. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

RockyMtnHog

Arkansas has ran the Pro-Style run game for years now and the opponent's defense just loads the box to stop it.

We need to go back to a spread style offense and stick with it.  We have good running backs but the OL just cannot hold up to the DL pressure.  The spread is the only way that Arkansas will compete in the SEC.

If I am off-base please let me know.
"On the Eighth Day, God created the Razorbacks!"

Con el Cerdos

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on November 12, 2017, 12:27:23 pm
Or competent defense and a great running game to limit possessions. 

What my concern is we go B12 and try it to play it in the SEC.  A&M under Sumlin with less talent. 

Not anywhere near the level of Leach or Briles, although, but I thought so when he was first hired at A&M.

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: Con el Cerdos on November 12, 2017, 12:44:53 pm
Not anywhere near the level of Leach or Briles, although, but I thought so when he was first hired at A&M.

Are you talking style of offense or ability to coach?  My statement is about what A&M is under Sumlin which is soft and falls apart down the stretch with underachieving defense.  This IMO is largely due to the mindset the spread brings to the program.  Same as in the B12 programs.  It's a negative result of Texas high school football which goes back to Briles, Dodge, Morris, etc. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

 

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on November 12, 2017, 12:27:23 pm
Or competent defense and a great running game to limit possessions. 

What my concern is we go B12 and try it to play it in the SEC.  A&M under Sumlin with less talent. 

Look at LSU yesterday. They ran a whole lot more than they passed, 39 rushes to 16 pass attempts and 11 completions for 425 yards. But their defense was and is, very talented. They held us to 318 yards, with an Alabama hangover in tow. All we have to do is recruit as well as they do. The last 5 years...#7, #2, #5, #2 and #6 according to 247 Sports. We used a Power-Spread under Petrino and did well for a couple of years and it put butts in the bleachers again. What is more, we were rarely the most talented team on the field overall. It gave us a better chance than we have had over the last 6 seasons.
Go Hogs Go!

Hoggie17

That was my reason to hire Gus after Long fired CBP.  I knew we were not going out Ala playing there game. Many on HV thought and still do think we can win with power football. Have you seen enough. I dobt that Gus would come back but football would be fun again. Lane Kiffin would win here, just saying.

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on November 12, 2017, 12:49:56 pm
Look at LSU yesterday. They ran a whole lot more than they passed, 39 rushes to 16 pass attempts and 11 completions for 425 yards. But their defense was and is, very talented. They held us to 318 yards, with an Alabama hangover in tow. All we have to do is recruit as well as they do. The last 5 years...#7, #2, #5, #2 and #6 according to 247 Sports. We used a Power-Spread under Petrino and did well for a couple of years and it put butts in the bleachers again. What is more, we were rarely the most talented team on the field overall. It gave us a better chance than we have had over the last 6 seasons.

Yes we ran a power spread under Petrino.  Is that what you are advocating?  Even though Petrino refuses to call it a spread.  I'm good with a pro style offense who relies on the pass to set up a power running game.  Only concern is the oline development it takes.  But if you want that again, okay.  We had the chance in 2010 and 2011 because our defenses became competent. 

Also the rarely more talented part not true especially in 2011. 

No need to tell me the difference in how LSU recruits. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: Hoggie17 on November 12, 2017, 12:53:03 pm
That was my reason to hire Gus after Long fired CBP.  I knew we were not going out Ala playing there game. Many on HV thought and still do think we can win with power football. Have you seen enough. I dobt that Gus would come back but football would be fun again. Lane Kiffin would win here, just saying.

What do you think Gus does?  It is a form of the option and relies on oline play.  The difference with Gus is he goes hurry up.  But his offense is about oline play and deception off the run game. 

And this out Alabama thing, who does beat Bama?  They haven't lost a regular season SEC game in how long? 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Hoggie17

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on November 12, 2017, 12:56:17 pm
What do you think Gus does?  It is a form of the option and relies on oline play.  The difference with Gus is he goes hurry up.  But his offense is about oline play and deception off the run game.
He does not play a traditional power game. You know what he does.

Con el Cerdos

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on November 12, 2017, 12:49:03 pm
Are you talking style of offense or ability to coach?  My statement is about what A&M is under Sumlin which is soft and falls apart down the stretch with underachieving defense.  This IMO is largely due to the mindset the spread brings to the program.  Same as in the B12 programs.  It's a negative result of Texas high school football which goes back to Briles, Dodge, Morris, etc. 

Ability as a head coach.

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: Hoggie17 on November 12, 2017, 12:58:16 pm
He does not play a traditional power game. You know what he does.

Traditional?  What are you calling traditional?  I formation with FB and QB under center?  No he doesn't. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: Con el Cerdos on November 12, 2017, 12:59:36 pm
Ability as a head coach.

Not what I was talking about.  He installed the program he intended to install. 

The overreaction to Sumlin early at A&M was one of the biggest this century so far.  Wasn't just you.  Supposed knowledgeable national media members did as well.  Sumlin should be coaching the Cowboys right now based on what many thought then. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Bebop


AflacHawg

Quote from: TeufelHog on November 12, 2017, 12:14:46 pm
Offense wins GAMES.  Defense wins CHAMPIONSHIPS!

Let us first win more than a handful of games and then we can worry about those very elusive Championships!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hoggie17

Quote from: AflacHawg on November 12, 2017, 01:08:12 pm
Let us first win more than a handful of games and then we can worry about those very elusive Championships!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This

 

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on November 12, 2017, 12:54:37 pm
Yes we ran a power spread under Petrino.  Is that what you are advocating?  Even though Petrino refuses to call it a spread.  I'm good with a pro style offense who relies on the pass to set up a power running game.  Only concern is the oline development it takes.  But if you want that again, okay.  We had the chance in 2010 and 2011 because our defenses became competent. 

Also the rarely more talented part not true especially in 2011. 

No need to tell me the difference in how LSU recruits. 

Again, we were rarely the more talented team on the field. The offense scored more points which put more pressure on opposing offenses to take more chances. When an opposing offensive team is under pressure to keep pace with scoring, they tend to take more chances and that offers up defensive opportunities to make plays. I agree that our defense during that time wasn't great, but at least competent. But the pressure our offense put on opponents, helped the defense. But that's JMO.
Go Hogs Go!

Con el Cerdos

Quote from: Hoggie17 on November 12, 2017, 12:58:16 pm
He does not play a traditional power game. You know what he does.

Yes, Gus' offense shows a lot of deception (shifts, etc.) and you can call it nontraditional if you wish, but the running plays (if not some type sweep) are all about power running behind some ass-kicking offensive linemen.  At least this year.

Hoggie17

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on November 12, 2017, 01:08:56 pm
Again, we were rarely the more talented team on the field. The offense scored more points which put more pressure on opposing offenses to take more chances. When an opposing offensive team is under pressure to keep pace with scoring, they tend to take more chances and that offers up defensive opportunities to make plays. I agree that our defense during that time wasn't great, but at least competent. But the pressure our offense put on opponents, helped the defense. But that's JMO.
That's my opinion, we have to have someone like Chip Kelly,Gus or BP.  Frank Broyles said we have to have a coach that can win with less.  That's way he hired Hatfield, he ran the Wish Bone.   

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on November 12, 2017, 01:08:56 pm
Again, we were rarely the more talented team on the field. The offense scored more points which put more pressure on opposing offenses to take more chances. When an opposing offensive team is under pressure to keep pace with scoring, they tend to take more chances and that offers up defensive opportunities to make plays. I agree that our defense during that time wasn't great, but at least competent. But the pressure our offense put on opponents, helped the defense. But that's JMO.

Petrino beat 3 SEC teams (SC twice, LSU once) in 4 seasons who ended up with a winning conference record.  SEC winning % of the teams beaten was 35%. 

I'm good if you want to go back to Petrino's pro style offense predicated on the passing game and then power running.  Is that what you are wanting?  Beats the hell out of some these actual spread hurry up finesse offenses. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

SooieGeneris

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on November 12, 2017, 01:08:56 pm
Again, we were rarely the more talented team on the field. The offense scored more points which put more pressure on opposing offenses to take more chances. When an opposing offensive team is under pressure to keep pace with scoring, they tend to take more chances and that offers up defensive opportunities to make plays. I agree that our defense during that time wasn't great, but at least competent. But the pressure our offense put on opponents, helped the defense. But that's JMO.

Again, we were rarely the more talented team on the field.

We were never the most talented team when we played 'Bama or LSU, but to say we were "rarely" the most talented team is a gross overstatement..

Jarius Wright is STILL in the NFL, Chris Gragg was until recently if he's not still and Greg Childs pre injury was the most talented of the trio.

Trey Flowers starts for the defending SB champs, Bequette spent a few years with the Pats, Knile Davis, Travis Swanson, Darius Philon, Mallett, DJ Williams won the Mackey Award and was drafted on the 2nd day, Cobi Hamilton.

All of those guys are in the NFL or only recently got cut. Many of them start. Javontee Herndon spent 2-3 years with the Chargers. There are others whose names don't immediately spring to mind..

No one can convince me that most of our opponents were more talented than that. Only 'Bama, and LSU had much of a telant gap over that, so you're talking 2 games out of 12..
An Old OL coach who's team couldn't block a hat last season... If things aren't MUCH better this fall,  enjoy Hot Springs Sammy!

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on November 12, 2017, 01:14:42 pm
Petrino beat 3 SEC teams (SC twice, LSU once) in 4 seasons who ended up with a winning conference record.  SEC winning % of the teams beaten was 35%. 

I'm good if you want to go back to Petrino's pro style offense predicated on the passing game and then power running.  Is that what you are wanting?  Beats the hell out of some these actual spread hurry up finesse offenses. 

What I want is an offense that stresses the opposing defenses and a defense that is respectable. I thought I had made it clear previously. You can recruit enough skilled talent to make the offense go without having to have the collection of athletes necessary to successfully run the pro style that we have seen for the last 5 seasons. Defensively, again, BBDB and you can certainly recruit enough athletes to run that better than we have this season and last.
Go Hogs Go!

sickboy

Quote from: Bebop on November 12, 2017, 01:03:20 pm
We just need a competent offense.

We had that last year and it didn't make any difference. You can score all day, if you can't stop the other team from scoring you're going to have a hard time winning games.

BroyledNutts

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on November 12, 2017, 11:53:08 am

The spread has taken over from coast to coast, from high school to the NFL. It's now an indelible part of football offenses everywhere.

People want exciting football. The fans want it. The ADs wanna fill the seats, and kids wanna play in offenses that score a lot of points and are exciting. The quarterbacks want it. The receivers want it.



The two above highlighted are, in my opinion only, keys to recruiting to Arkansas. they are both why we struggle in recruiting, particularly recently, and what it will take to improve recruiting to the UofA.

Defense is still important - but if the ability to get high level defensive players remains constant, dialing up the offense is the only recourse.

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on November 12, 2017, 01:24:31 pm
What I want is an offense that stresses the opposing defenses and a defense that is respectable. I thought I had made it clear previously. You can recruit enough skilled talent to make the offense go without having to have the collection of athletes necessary to successfully run the pro style that we have seen for the last 5 seasons. Defensively, again, BBDB and you can certainly recruit enough athletes to run that better than we have this season and last.

The difference in Petrino and Bielema and the pro style offenses has been qb talent and wr talent.  Petrino had it.  Mallett stretched the field simply on his arm strength.  He could make throws most college qb's can't downfield.  Petrino of course is one of the best in teaching and implementing the passing game.  The Allens are not Mallett.  Petrino had the talent to run a pro style offense.  For Bielema's attempt, we haven't even been close to as run heavy as we should have been due to his oline recruitment and development.  We haven't been 3 yards and a cloud of dust.  I'm just trying to figure out which spread you prefer because the spectrum is wide as your linked article says.  You want something closer to Petrino's pro style who had a lot of talent on his Arkansas offenses or other end to the truly soft offenses - something like Hugh Freeze where running the ball was painful? 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: BroyledNutts on November 12, 2017, 01:34:05 pm
The two above highlighted are, in my opinion only, keys to recruiting to Arkansas. they are both why we struggle at recruiting, particularly recently, and what it will take to improve recruiting to the UofA.

Defense is still important - but if the ability to get high level defensive players remains constant, dialing up the offense is the only recourse.

Keys to recruiting to Arkansas is the state provides help and at what positions.  You would have thought Petrino would have attracted highly recruited wr's and qb's after he got going at Arkansas.  It didn't.  You would have thought olinemen would have been attracted to Bielema's program.  Nope.  But we've ended up with 4 star qb's buried on the depth chart. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

rtr

Gus would certainly improve recruiting even finding a few more Arkansas kids who could contribute due to his connection to Arkansas HS football.  Another run oriented spread coach is Rich Rodriguez.
The more smites the more intelligent I get.

MuskogeeHogFan

November 12, 2017, 01:51:27 pm #35 Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 02:01:31 pm by MuskogeeHogFan
Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on November 12, 2017, 01:35:18 pm
The difference in Petrino and Bielema and the pro style offenses has been qb talent and wr talent.  Petrino had it.  Mallett stretched the field simply on his arm strength.  He could make throws most college qb's can't downfield.  Petrino of course is one of the best in teaching and implementing the passing game.  The Allens are not Mallett.  Petrino had the talent to run a pro style offense.  For Bielema's attempt, we haven't even been close to as run heavy as we should have been due to his oline recruitment and development.  We haven't been 3 yards and a cloud of dust.  I'm just trying to figure out which spread you prefer because the spectrum is wide as your linked article says.  You want something closer to Petrino's pro style who had a lot of talent on his Arkansas offenses or other end to the truly soft offenses - something like Hugh Freeze where running the ball was painful? 

I think that if we go the route of the drop back passer on offense, we are making a big mistake, the value of the potential of the run by a QB that can make you pay by not assigning someone to "spy" him cannot be underestimated. Just another facet of an offense that makes defenses have to account for one more player who can run the ball when given the opportunity. That guy also has to have an accurate arm so that the passing is a credible threat as well. Is that asking too much? I don't think so but there are always going to be some QB's that are more talented than others in this area.

We don't have to have the biggest, power-run blocking offensive line in that style of offense. The nature of the offense itself, with motion and mis-direction, helps set up blocking angles for the O-Line. Once you have an angle on your target, you don't need as much power or size to move them or keep them out of the play.

There are many variations of the Spread offense, as mentioned in the article. Which one will we get with a new HC? I have no idea but I just know that I want to see us in a position where we have a chance to put the opposing defenses on their heels, having to defend more of our offense.

Go Hogs Go!

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on November 12, 2017, 01:51:27 pm
I think that if we go the route of the drop back passer on offense, we are making a big mistake, the value of the potential of the run by a QB that can make you pay by not assigning someone to "spy" him cannot be underestimated. Just another facet of an offense that makes defenses have to account for one more player who can run the ball when given the opportunity. That guy also has to have an accurate arm so that the passing is a credible threat as well. Is that asking too much? I don't think so but there are always going to be some QB's that are more talented than others in this area.

We don't have to have the biggest, power-run blocking offensive line in that style of offense. The nature of the offense itself, with motion and mis-dorection, helps set up blocking angles for the O-Line. Once you have an angle on your target, you don't need as much power or size to move them or keep them out of the play.

There are many variations of the Spread offense, as mentioned in the article. Which one will we get with a new HC? I have no idea but I just know that I want to see us in a position where we have a chance to put the opposing defenses on their heels, having to defend more of our offense.

I've been advocating RPO QB's at Arkansas for a long time.  Finally looks like we will head that direction.
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

rtr

Quote from: sickboy on November 12, 2017, 01:26:34 pm
We had that last year and it didn’t make any difference. You can score all day, if you can’t stop the other team from scoring you’re going to have a hard time winning games.
Disagree, they put up decent statistics but were wildly inconsistent.  The second half collapses last year were as much on the offense as it was the defense.
The more smites the more intelligent I get.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: SooieGeneris on November 12, 2017, 01:23:21 pm
Again, we were rarely the more talented team on the field.

We were never the most talented team when we played 'Bama or LSU, but to say we were "rarely" the most talented team is a gross overstatement..

Jarius Wright is STILL in the NFL, Chris Gragg was until recently if he's not still and Greg Childs pre injury was the most talented of the trio.

Trey Flowers starts for the defending SB champs, Bequette spent a few years with the Pats, Knile Davis, Travis Swanson, Darius Philon, Mallett, DJ Williams won the Mackey Award and was drafted on the 2nd day, Cobi Hamilton.

All of those guys are in the NFL or only recently got cut. Many of them start. Javontee Herndon spent 2-3 years with the Chargers. There are others whose names don't immediately spring to mind..

No one can convince me that most of our opponents were more talented than that. Only 'Bama, and LSU had much of a telant gap over that, so you're talking 2 games out of 12..

Want to go back and look at the teams that we played and the number of players they put in the NFL? Yes, we had some good players, but overall we were less talented than many of the teams that we played.
Go Hogs Go!

ShadowTheHedgehog

I have a love/hate relationship with the spread. Would love to have it here - hate it when other teams use it.

Soooie21


MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: ShadowTheHedgehog on November 12, 2017, 02:36:06 pm
I have a love/hate relationship with the spread. Would love to have it here - hate it when other teams use it.

It is easier for a team to recruit to and it tends to level the playing field to some extent when playing a team with better talent.

I just want to see us play more competitively in every game. I'd love it if we won every game but that isn't reality. At least play competitively.
Go Hogs Go!

pigskenG

Personally, I hate the spread. Call plays from the sideline by holding up pictures, it's like a high school offense to me.
But I am old fashioned. I guess we can't recruit the big road graders for the offensive line consistently.
How about the veer or the wing T ?
But we'll need a QB that can also run.
And that doesn't even get to the defense. IMO we need LB's, Safeties badly.
And I mean big and fast guys with a on the field attitude.

Birminghog

Quote from: Birminghog on November 12, 2017, 12:15:46 pm
MHF, a question to you and others who are knowledgable. I'm not necessarily a fan of the spread, but considering what we are learning about long-term health issues, does the spread provide a safer offense from a health and injury perspective? Are there fewer violent collisions?

I don't seem to be able to attract anyone interested in education today. Bueller? Bueller? I could potentially get talked into the spread if it creates fewer injuries.

Malvin

The spread works because over the past 15 to 20 years the rules of the game have changed to empower the passing game.  You can barley touch the QB without getting a flag, you can hardly touch the receivers, you can't hit the receivers without getting a targeting call on you and getting thrown out of the game.  An offense today has so many advantages over the defense that it makes sense to spread it out, isolate a defender and play pitch and catch.  Football 'was' the ultimate team sport, to play the pro style offense or heavy run focused you need every player on the same page.. with the spread it doesn't matter, you could have half the team taking a coffee break out there and still do well.

bphi11ips

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on November 12, 2017, 11:53:08 am
Interesting article that describes the foundations of the Spread to where we are now. I'd suggest that this might be the direction that the Hogs are going in the future.

The spread offense scatters players wide all across the field. It's designed to be distribution-friendly. It forces defenses to worry about every eligible ball carrier on the field, and horizontal inches as well as vertical.

The spread has taken over from coast to coast, from high school to the NFL. It's now an indelible part of football offenses everywhere.

I think it varies, it changes, with who you ask. I think 15 years ago, a spread offense was classified as a four-wide, shotgun team. But now, I don't think you can say that, because there are so many different personnel groupings. There's so many different offensive philosophies within that now that it's changed. So I think my definition of a spread offense is gonna be different than somebody else who runs a spread offense.

To us, it's truly making the defense defend the entire field. In college, the spread offense is an equalizer. If your team can't recruit elite linemen, a wide-open offense might be the way to mitigate the talent gap.

People want exciting football. The fans want it. The ADs wanna fill the seats, and kids wanna play in offenses that score a lot of points and are exciting. The quarterbacks want it. The receivers want it. Even the defensive players wanna play in a program that can score a lot of points. So I don't know if things will ever go back to 21 personnel and 12 personnel, a couple tight ends and a cloud of dust.


Look for this in our next HC.

https://www.sbnation.com/a/cfb-preview-2017/spread-offense

NFL coaches are seeing the effect of the spread in o-linemen.  The main issues are lack of aggressiveness and knowing how to use the hands. There is a line of thinking developing that one option is to draft defensive linemen and convert them to offense. 
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Knot2brite

The spread is very hard to run if you don't have lineman that can block and receivers that can catch the ball...it is a finesse game and quite often it is easier to find bulldozers than dancing bears. If you don't have kids that can block and catch then you are screwed. When Petrino came here he was the beneficiary of possibly the best recruiting class that this state has ever produced. Throw in the fact that he received a gift in a QB that had always wanted to be a Hog and got his chance to come back. It was the perfect situation. Over the last three to four years we have had more than enough offense with the pro style to win the vast majority of our games. The fact that we haven't had a defense worth a warm bucket of piss since Herring was the D.C. So get your offensive guru that throws it eleventy billion times but don't cry when your "right coach" can't get the players to run it and still can't get the defensive players either. A ball control offense with a stiff defense is the only way Arkansas can compete
Usually in EI where intelligent conversation is required

FANONTHEHILL

Quote from: TeufelHog on November 12, 2017, 12:14:46 pm
Offense wins GAMES.  Defense wins CHAMPIONSHIPS!

I agree that defense is critical, but the spread has changed that dynamic.  The two best defenses in the SEC gave up 40 (Georgia) and 24 (Bama) to spread offenses this past weekend.  One was blow out and the other barely escaped with a win.  Something to consider.
Favorite quote from practice.  Made to my son:<br /><br /><br />Technique is nice, but it comes down to this.  Block the F'er in front of you. - Sam Pittman 2015

Dominicanhog

Quote from: FANONTHEHILL on November 13, 2017, 06:06:14 am
I agree that defense is critical, but the spread has changed that dynamic.  The two best defenses in the SEC gave up 40 (Georgia) and 24 (Bama) to spread offenses this past weekend.  One was blow out and the other barely escaped with a win.  Something to consider.

Auburn won with defense and you could say the same about Bama..

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Birminghog on November 12, 2017, 12:15:46 pm
MHF, a question to you and others who are knowledgable. I'm not necessarily a fan of the spread, but considering what we are learning about long-term health issues, does the spread provide a safer offense from a health and injury perspective? Are there fewer violent collisions?

I'm not sure that it is any safer than any other style of offense.
Go Hogs Go!