How long before UCA is a major football program in Arkansas.

[slopinhogs]

i could tell you a story about Lew Hardins car but i wouldn't do that. :razorback:

[Kicking Wing]

It's funny how worked up ASU fans get whenever someone starts to compare UCA to them.

Mark my words, UCA will overtake ASU in just a few years or less, if they already haven't, but UCA will never overtake the UofA simply because how hog-wild this state is.

Not to turn this into a UCA vs. ASU thread, but UCA has some distinct recent advantages over ASU. The growth of the region and the enrollment explosions only help UCA and directly hurt ASU - D1 vs. D1AA classifications don't matter in this region. Given the recent growth figures of the central Arkansas region (Maumelle 42%, Bryant 32%, Conway 26%, Benton 18%) compared to Jonesboro (8%), it only stands to reason that UCA's enrollment and campus stands to keep growing.

I've been to UofA games, UCA and ASU games all within the previous two years. UCA trumps over ASU by leaps and bounds simply because of the growth, progress and 'newness' of what's happening down there in Conway. I'm not a Bear fan, but if you haven't been to a UCA game in the past two years and you live in central Arkansas, you really owe yourself to go. It's getting to be a prime-time atmosphere there.

The students, city and area are extremely excited with all the recent changes, both athletically and academically, and that keeps enthusiasm and student support at all time highs on campus and in the area, which includes Little Rock. Directly compared to ASU, which has been fighting stagnant growth (with the exception of this past year), both enrollment- and area-wise, and it's no wonder the true-and-loyal Indian fans will be on board, but they're having a hard time grabbing and maintaining a new fan base.

If Lu can keep up UCA's growth, they will move leaps and bounds ahead of ASU. In fact, many already consider UCA to be ahead of ASU academically.

But overtake the hogs? Forget it. It would take A) Arkansas losing to the likes of Troy multiple years in a row and B) UCA being ranked #1 in D1AA multiple years in a row with upsets over D1 ranked rent-a-wins - neither of which are likely to happen any time soon.

Even then, I doubt it. There are just too many life-long hog fans in this state. Arkansas does indeed bleed Razorback red.

Not any funnier than some hog fans getting worked up over the thought of one game.  Not as funny as some hog fans that have no clue whatsoever trying to make ridiculous claims about UCA overtaking ASU in anything other than enrollment any time soon. 

ASU's 17K per game is an AVERAGE.  We don't draw well in November because of weather, Thursday night games and hunting season, but it's still an average.  We draw well over that 17K early on to get the average and even draw over 20K for games against D1AA teams.  November games usually see about 10-13K.  We still draw better than most in our conference and a lot of C-USA teams I've seen (actual attendance) and those schools are in huge areas like Dallas, Birmingham, Miami, etc. 

Facilities are also MUCH better at ASU.  Over the past 6 years, we have made serious upgrades to every area of infrastrucure associated with football.  Again, we now have better facilities than most of our conference if not all and better than a lot of other mid-majors.  UCA has nice amenities for their division, but it isn't even close. 

Enrollment at UCA shot up and is starting to level out.  ASu is only 1000 students behind and the growth is not just this year.  The campus has been completely redone and we have a new nursing facility, arts and humanities and a new entertainment complex coming for the students.  Our New student union is modeled after the one at Penn St., only bigger. 

Still, enrollment has nothing to do with on the field success.  If that was the case, almost every Sun Belt team would beat UA.  Those schools also are in larger areas, so it kind of kills the whole "UCA is going to overtake ASU because they are in central AR" argument.  I am still waiting on UALR to overtake everyone in basketball because they are in central AR.

As for being easier in D1AA, I will find the article for you all where Troy's coach and others discuss that it is a no-brainer to move to D1 no matter what conference you play in.  It doesn't cost much more and the exposure and returns are much better.  I know for a fact that Lu Hardin is scrambling to move money around to cover the higher than expected costs of mving to D1AA.  I would like to see UCA overhaul their athletic campus and eventually join the Sun Belt, but they have a long ways to go.

Right now, ASU has truned from a losing team in the lower conferences to a contender in their own circles every year.  I don't expect to be in the top 25, but with Roberts on board I also don't look for us to take any steps backwards. 

UCA is moving up as well, but go look at their football stadium, basketball and especially baseball field and look at ours and you would be a fool to say that they are about to "overtake ASU".  I guess you are trying to turn ASU and UCA fans against each other, but I don't really see it happening. 

For the near future, UCA is not a threat to ASU on the field or off athletically although maybe they cna be our rival some day.  It would be fun to have someone in state to play.

[Kicking Wing]

One more thing I remembered about that ridiculous theory about enrollment and being in central AR.  Denton, Texas is one of the 5 fastest growing cities in the nation.  It is in the Dallas area that has twice as many people as this whole state.  There is more D1 talent in that area than this whole state.  UNT has an enrollment of 30K (that's UA and either UCA or ASU combined).  Why haven't they overtaken UT, Texas A &M, Texas Tech or UA for that matter?  While we're at it, why are they 0-2 the last two seasons against little old ASU in little old Jonesboro (whom they don't outdraw)??

I go to ASU and UCA games, have UCA friends and I hope UCA succeeds.  However, I can't stand by while these baseless theories are tossed about in an effort to bash my alma mater.

Here endeth the lesson.

[hogifino]

Love the bears, UCA grad in86.  The length of time to be a competitive d1 team is the amount of time it takes to get competitive d1 players period.  You can argue fan base and facilities but they usually follow the money.  If you win, they will build it, then they will come and fuss about play calling.

[Kicking Wing]

http://www.beltboard.com/forum/forum_entry.php?id=27652&page=0&category=all&order=timeThis is a great article about Troy and WKU moving up and how much sense it made even though both were competing for national titles at the D1AA level.  You have to read several posts to get the whole thing, but it's worth it if you want an education in the nuts and bolts of the two divisions.

I can also vouch that when ASU was playing for national titles in D1AA in the 80s, the crowds for the postseason games were smaller than the crows at regular season games now and the enthusiasm wasn't as high.

[cbjagman]

It will be hard.  I played there in the 80s, so I would love for them to be a player, but I believe in order to get to be big time, they need more money than what a state with the population of Arkansas can offer.  Who knows though.  Mississippi has two SEC schools.  Surely we are not that far behind.

I truly admire your loyalty to UCA; however, I would have hoped that while you attended there you would also have acquired a sense of reality. No way, jose!!!!!!

[cosmodrum]

Look, as an alum of UCA, I will be the first to say that UCA will most likely never be a major football program in Arkansas. However, that statement is not infallable. The coaching staff has done a wonderful job in the past 7 or so years. In fact, Clint Conque's brand of football has been far more entertaining than Dale's, relatively speaking. What I do know is that not only has enrollment increased, but the quality of education has evolved, the campus has exploded, and the athletic program has made giant leaps. A couple of years ago the girls bball team was in the final four, and if I'm not mistaken, got beat by the team that won it all. And the football team went 8-3 in it's first year at the D1 level. Of course, none of this means they are on there way to being a so-called "major Arkansas program;" that distinction will be reserved for my beloved Razorbacks. However, if the rate of growth (referring to both enrollment and athletic success) continues, then NO ONE on this board, or on the planet, can say that it is impossible. UCA is in the unique position of being located in the heart of the Great State of Arkansas., something that neither the U of A or ASU can boast. Make no mistake, I have nothing against either of the aforementioned Universities; I was a phone call away from attending ASU and did a year of grad work on the Hill, which was, incidentally, one of the most rewarding experiences of my life.

Go HOGS! GO BEARS! AND GO INDIANS (that is, until the new mascot is chosen)

[jkstock04]

I thought I would ask this question. I think with the location and the fast growth it won't be that long.
GO BEARS

Thats humorous.  What is with this fascination with UCA anyways??  Seems like I hear more huggin and hypin towards UCA than I do Arkansas State.  But maybe thats just me being me cause I went to Tech one year (in which that year we beat UCA's a$$).

[Kicking Wing]

Look, as an alum of UCA, I will be the first to say that UCA will most likely never be a major football program in Arkansas. However, that statement is not infallable. The coaching staff has done a wonderful job in the past 7 or so years. In fact, Clint Conque's brand of football has been far more entertaining than Dale's, relatively speaking. What I do know is that not only has enrollment increased, but the quality of education has evolved, the campus has exploded, and the athletic program has made giant leaps. A couple of years ago the girls bball team was in the final four, and if I'm not mistaken, got beat by the team that won it all. And the football team went 8-3 in it's first year at the D1 level. Of course, none of this means they are on there way to being a so-called "major Arkansas program;" that distinction will be reserved for my beloved Razorbacks. However, if the rate of growth (referring to both enrollment and athletic success) continues, then NO ONE on this board, or on the planet, can say that it is impossible. UCA is in the unique position of being located in the heart of the Great State of Arkansas., something that neither the U of A or ASU can boast. Make no mistake, I have nothing against either of the aforementioned Universities; I was a phone call away from attending ASU and did a year of grad work on the Hill, which was, incedentally, one of the most rewarding experiences of my life.

Go HOGS! GO BEARS! AND GO INDIANS (that is, until the new mascot is chosen)

I don't disagree with any of that at all.  In fact, you could make the exact same statement about ASU's campus and athletics, but people just don't see it as much because it's in another part of the state.

UCA and ASU are both moving in the right direction.

[hawgbawb]

They will be a "major" program in the state as soon as people start FOi'ing the coaches records, whining every time some kid they are recruiting goes elsewhere, calling for a coach to be fired because 2 players out of 100+ leave, protesting the coach after a 10 win season.  Then and only then will they be a major program in the state.

So true.

[TMc]

Never.., Arkansas is not big enough to support more than 1 major program.  They may improve their status somewhat .., but not one team in this state will replace the Razorbacks unless the U of A disbands athletics.

[hammy davis jr]

I can see a nasty rivalry forming in the future between UCA and ASU.  When UCA played ASU in the mid 90s, there was a lot of hype and excitement for that game.  ASU needs to quit focusing on a rivalry with U of A and focus more on a future rivalry with UCA.  That is a game the whole state could embrace, even razorback fans.

[hawgbawb]

Never.., Arkansas is not big enough to support more than 1 major program.  They may improve their status somewhat .., but not one team in this state will replace the Razorbacks unless the U of A disbands athletics.

You have no vision.  The speed with which it happens will depend on several factors, including:
1. The extent to which Central Arkansas grows.
2. The extent to which HS football grows in Arkansas (especially the number of Div 1 propects).
3. The extent to which Arkansas and ASU capture/hold the Central and South Arkansas fans.

When Arkansas hits 3.5M population, it will probably have 2 respectable Div 1 teams, or 1 respectable and 2 also-rans. When it hits 4 or 4.5M, it might have 3 respectable teams.  Look at the other southern states in that population range and you get the idea.  Alabama, South Carolina, Louisiana, Tennessee

[cosmodrum]

I can see a nasty rivalry forming in the future between UCA and ASU.  When UCA played ASU in the mid 90s, there was a lot of hype and excitement for that game.  ASU needs to quit focusing on a rivalry with U of A and focus more on a future rivalry with UCA.  That is a game the whole state could embrace, even razorback fans.

I was at the last UCA/ASU game. It was a pretty good rivalry. I definitely think that relationship needs to be rekindled.

[Kicking Wing]

I can see a nasty rivalry forming in the future between UCA and ASU.  When UCA played ASU in the mid 90s, there was a lot of hype and excitement for that game.  ASU needs to quit focusing on a rivalry with U of A and focus more on a future rivalry with UCA.  That is a game the whole state could embrace, even razorback fans.

UCA and ASU will be a great rivalry, but are you saying that ASU and UA woudln't be a great one with hype and excitement that the whole state could embrace?  I fail to see the difference.  Asu and UA had some great games the two times they played in other sports and anyone who witnessed those games can attest to the unbelievable excitement in the air.

They should all just play and quit whining about it.

[LongHairedCountryBoar]

Mississippi has two SEC schools.  Surely we are not that far behind.

OUCH!

[TheLRHog]

never

ever

[Hugulus Hog]

If the student population surpasses UA, then they will be well on their way to becoming a big time program. 

[Justme]

Mississippi has two SEC schools.  Surely we are not that far behind.

OUCH!

Really. 

[Justme]

Mississippi has two SEC schools.  Surely we are not that far behind.

OUCH!

Really.

[bacchusrider]

I can see a nasty rivalry forming in the future between UCA and ASU.  When UCA played ASU in the mid 90s, there was a lot of hype and excitement for that game.  ASU needs to quit focusing on a rivalry with U of A and focus more on a future rivalry with UCA.  That is a game the whole state could embrace, even razorback fans.

UCA and ASU will be a great rivalry, but are you saying that ASU and UA woudln't be a great one with hype and excitement that the whole state could embrace?  I fail to see the difference.  Asu and UA had some great games the two times they played in other sports and anyone who witnessed those games can attest to the unbelievable excitement in the air.

They should all just play and quit whining about it.

UCA and ASU would make for a much more exciting game.  Just look at how ASU fares against most SEC teams when they play them.  As long as Broyles is on the Hill it wont happen either, Arkansas has too much to lose and nothing to gain.

[Kicking Wing]

I can see a nasty rivalry forming in the future between UCA and ASU.  When UCA played ASU in the mid 90s, there was a lot of hype and excitement for that game.  ASU needs to quit focusing on a rivalry with U of A and focus more on a future rivalry with UCA.  That is a game the whole state could embrace, even razorback fans.

UCA and ASU will be a great rivalry, but are you saying that ASU and UA woudln't be a great one with hype and excitement that the whole state could embrace?  I fail to see the difference.  Asu and UA had some great games the two times they played in other sports and anyone who witnessed those games can attest to the unbelievable excitement in the air.

They should all just play and quit whining about it.

UCA and ASU would make for a much more exciting game.  Just look at how ASU fares against most SEC teams when they play them.  As long as Broyles is on the Hill it wont happen either, Arkansas has too much to lose and nothing to gain.

I really think you are overestimating how close a UCA vs. ASU game would be.  ASU doesn't lose or come close to losing against D1AAs anymore under Roberts.  Last time we played one of them it was 56-7 and none have come closer than 3 TDs since he took over.

[LoseAnutt]

I can see a nasty rivalry forming in the future between UCA and ASU.  When UCA played ASU in the mid 90s, there was a lot of hype and excitement for that game.  ASU needs to quit focusing on a rivalry with U of A and focus more on a future rivalry with UCA.  That is a game the whole state could embrace, even razorback fans.

UCA and ASU will be a great rivalry, but are you saying that ASU and UA woudln't be a great one with hype and excitement that the whole state could embrace?  I fail to see the difference.  Asu and UA had some great games the two times they played in other sports and anyone who witnessed those games can attest to the unbelievable excitement in the air.

They should all just play and quit whining about it.

UCA and ASU would make for a much more exciting game.  Just look at how ASU fares against most SEC teams when they play them.  As long as Broyles is on the Hill it wont happen either, Arkansas has too much to lose and nothing to gain.

I really think you are overestimating how close a UCA vs. ASU game would be.  ASU doesn't lose or come close to losing against D1AAs anymore under Roberts.  Last time we played one of them it was 56-7 and none have come closer than 3 TDs since he took over.

i won't be in denial and pretend that ASU and UCA is on the same level. i remember a couple years back when ASU beat Tennessee-Martin by 60 points then the following week Tennessee-Martin beat UCA. UCA is DivIAA and ASU is DivIA just like us although they are not as good as us.

[ExArky]

Never.., Arkansas is not big enough to support more than 1 major program.  They may improve their status somewhat .., but not one team in this state will replace the Razorbacks unless the U of A disbands athletics.

This is outdated 1950s-era thinking. Arkansas isn't the rural farm state with one medium-sized population center it was back then ... it is a growing, national/international economic powerhouse with the headquarters of several major companies, clustered mostly in NW  and Central Ark. Soon, if not already, it will have the economic and population capability to support more than one "major" program

When someone suggests that UCA or ASU may be a "major" program someday, I don't think anyone is suggesting that they will replace the Razorbacks. UA is the top dog (or should I say top hog) and will be for the forseeable future. But it could only help the state's image as a whole to have 1 or 2 other 1A programs with at least some level of national success.

[Shizzle]

I think in 4-8 years they will be doing great things in the D 1 AA but I never forsee them as a player in D1

[bacchusrider]

It is amazing how a few homers from NE Arkansas are so worried that they must keep making claims as to why ASU is so much better than UCA.  I dont think the original post or the posts from the last day or so ever said UCA is better than ASU.

You guys up there need to chill and get a search committee to come up with a mascot, and not be worrying about how much better your school is etc etc etc. 

It just seems you are so worried that you will not be #2 in the state that you have to point fingers and make excuses.  Only time will tell if UCA becomes a Major football school. WE will just have to wait and see.

[Kicking Wing]

  I dont think the original post or the posts from the last day or so ever said UCA is better than ASU.

Really??? Did you even read this thread?  Doesn't sound like it.

[TMc]

I may have 1950's thinking , and I do not think we are a rural farming state anymore.  But I ask you one question- Do you actually see people flocking into UCA from all over the state to see them play?  The answer is no.., the Razorbacks are entrenched in this state..and again, unless the U of A disbands athletics.. It will never happen.  They don't have the facilities nor the tradition or prestige to bring in the kind of kids to make that happen.  Heck .., we've been in the SEC for 15 years now.. and we are just now making some enroads into the heart of SEC country for recruiting.  Now, I enjoy keeping up with UCA and wish them well.. I just don't see it.

[4thdownnutt]

and what conference wll uca be in when they are major?

[NWAFellows]

I may have 1950's thinking , and I do not think we are a rural farming state anymore.  But I ask you one question- Do you actually see people flocking into UCA from all over the state to see them play?  The answer is no.., the Razorbacks are entrenched in this state..and again, unless the U of A disbands athletics.. It will never happen.  They don't have the facilities nor the tradition or prestige to bring in the kind of kids to make that happen.  Heck .., we've been in the SEC for 15 years now.. and we are just now making some enroads into the heart of SEC country for recruiting.  Now, I enjoy keeping up with UCA and wish them well.. I just don't see it.

Given the choice between a Razorback home game or a UCA home game, it's a no brainer. Hogs rule, and they're going to get the biggest crowd.

But look at it like this: 1) It's 175+ miles from LR to Fayetteville. 2) It's very possible the two token games in LR will be yanked back to Fayetteville under the new athletic director. 3) A home UCA game against a worthy foe on a weekend when the hogs are on an away game provides all the catalyst UCA needs to draw an above average crowd.

Having lived in NW Ark. and Cent. Ark, I can tell you it's two totally different atmospheres. The Hogs are still the No. 1 team in this state - and probably always will be. But don't count out the power of a UCA home game on attracting fans from Central Arkansas - especially if it's all they've got.

I can tell you this, UCA would benefit 100-fold from LR losing it's two Razorback home games.

The fact that this is even an active thread and has reached four pages should tell you enough that UCA athletics are starting to get noticed.

[jabber]

I believe UCA will be a D-1AA school for a long time and I expect them to become a national power at that level quickly - within 5-7 years.  Wouldn't it be great for the state of Arkansas and all us fans to have the Razorbacks contending for national championships at the D1 level and UCA contending for the top spot at the D1AA level.  H*ll yea!

I also think an Arkansas vs. Arkansas State match-up in Little Rock every year to kick off the football season would be something for all fans to truely get excited about.

[Pig_Lebowski]

"I may have 1950's thinking , and I do not think we are a rural farming state anymore."

Have you driven from Memphis to Little Rock lately?

[RedRiverHog]

This thread has made for a lot of interesting comments but if you think UCA is ever going to be a powerhouse D1 team, I'm sorry but your delusional.

[hogzirra]

For all of the UCA fans screaming about their 12,000 students and how that is going to take them to the top of the sports world:

Univ. of Texas at Arlington:  25,000 students
Miami Dade College:            57,000 students