How Good Have Hog Point Guards Been? Head to Head Rankings

[eusebius]

Razorback Pt Guards: Head to Head

Four point or lead guards stand out in Hog Basketball history: Alvin Robertson ('81-'84), Lee Mayberry ('88-'92), Corey Beck ('92-'95) and Kareem Reid ('95-'99). Hog stats on assists and steals are not consistently counted prior to '78-'79 so no one before then is figured here. The Hogs have used a combination of pt guards on some of their teams, and then some teams have not had a true lead or point guard. But when the Hogs had very clear pt guard leadership, they have been very successful. Both individual stats and team wins bear this out.

PPG
1. Mayberry 14.0
2. Robertson 12.5
3. Reid 11.3
4. Beck 7.9

APG
1. Reid 5.7
2. Mayberry 5.2
3. Beck 4.7
4. Robertson 3.9

RPG
1. Beck 4.7
2. Robertson 4.3
3. Mayberry 2.9
4. Reid 2.6

SPG
1. Robertson 2.47
2. Mayberry 2.09
3. Beck 1.76
4. Reid 1.48

FG %
1. Robertson 52.2
2. Beck 49.8
3. Mayberry 49.5
4. Reid 40.9

3pt % (N/A Robertson)
1. Beck 46.8
2. Mayberry 42.4
3. Reid 29.6

FT %
1. Mayberry 72.4
2. Reid 71.9
3. Beck 67. 00
4. Robertson 65.6

Steals to Turnover Ratio
1. Mayberry (291/232)   1.25 to 1
2. Robertson 217/274)  .79 to 1
3. Beck  (182/275)   .66  to   1
4. Reid   (194/341)   .57  to  1

Assist to Turnover Ratio
1. Mayberry  (729/ 232)   3.14 to 1
2. Reid   (748/341)    2.19   to  1 
3. Beck   (341/274)    1.76  to  1
4.Robertson    (341/274)     1.24 to 1
   
Team Winning %
1. Mayberry 115-24  (82.7 %)
2. Beck 85-19 (81.7%)
3. Robertson 74-17 (81.3%)
4. Reid 85-37   (69.7%)

Avg Rating (Robertson with 9 categories, the rest w/ 10)
Mayberry 1.7
Beck 2.5
Robertson 2.55
Reid 3.1
   
My thoughts on these players:

Robertson: The best compliment I can pay Alvin is that he would have made a great defensive back to go along Kennoy Kennedy, Ken Hamlin, and Steve Atwater. Robertson was fearless and ruthless. Ricky Norton was the main ball-handler on his teams, and Robertson put up his numbers in an offense designed to go inside to Big Joe Kleine or to Darrell Walker most possessions. He generated his points off of steals and rebounds. He was All American in 1984, and Bobby Knight thought enough of his toughness to pair him with Michael Jordan on the '84 Gold Medal Olympic team. Robertson is one of four guys to post a quadruple double in an NBA game and the only guy to do it with 10 steals. He holds the NBA record for highest steals per game average with 2.7 per game. BTW, he's the guy that makes the assist to Balentine to beat Jordan and the Heels in '84 

Mayberry: Hog fans love Mayberry, but even then, most don't realize how good he was. He has a 3.14 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. To give you some perspective, the all- time NCAA assist leader Bobby Hurley's is 2.01 to 1.  Maybe even a more incredible stat about Lee was his steal to turnover ratio: 1.25 to 1. This means that he is getting more steals, than he is turning over the ball. I've charted hundreds of players and the only two point guards I have found that have an STL/TO ratio over 1 were NBA pt guards Mookie Blaylock and Maurice Cheeks and Chris Paul's is very close to 1. Lee was phenomenal, because he was so efficient. The only small chink in his armor was FT shooting which was only 72.4., as typically you want your pt guard up around 80 percent.

Beck: When I first saw Beck play, he was an offensive minded pt guard with the Memphis YMCA. When he came to Arkansas, he tailored his game to making whatever play was needed and winning games. Beck won nearly 82 % of his games here, close to the winning percentage of Bobby Hurley. He averaged nearly 5 rebs a game and took numerous charges and was the floor leader for the champion team of '93-'94. He also shot nearly 50 % from the floor. Beck and Patrick Beverly (5.5 rpg) are the best rebounding guards we have had outside of G/F Super Sid. 

Kareem Reid: He burst on the scene in '95-'96 as a freshman and broke Mayberry's single season assist mark and led the Hogs to the Sweet Sixteen. Hopefully that was a sign of more good things to come. But Reid's time here was marked with roster changes, and off the court issues for the Hogs, but he and backcourt mate Pat Bradley still managed to get the Hogs to the big dance three times. Reid was a high risk and high reward pt guard. He wasn't accurate from behind the line, his game was drive and dish and functioned better in an up tempo, full court game. Over his career, Reid improved at the line finishing as a 71.9 % shooter.

In my metric, Mayberry came out on top. But, if I am ranking them I'll go Mayberry, Robertson (mainly for defense), Beck, and Reid.

Discuss Hog fans.

           






 

[ballz2thewall]

beck was the general that no one has matched.  his record is not in stats but by watching the games.

[eusebius]

beck was the general that no one has matched.  his record is not in stats but by watching the games.

Ballz that Memphis YMCA team was incredible: Anfernee Hardaway, Beck, Stewart, Randy Carter, just tremendous Memphis area talent. 

[ThundrHawg]

If I had to draft a team from former Razorbacks, Beck would be the first player I would take period, not just at guard.

[ErieHog]

Mayberry is the best PG in the history of our program, and an underappreciated guy.

[eusebius]

Mayberry is the best PG in the history of our program, and an underappreciated guy.

I agree. I don't think people realize how hard it is, even if you are just playing pick up basketball vs decent competition, to get three assists for every one turnover. And then imagine doing that on the biggest stages of college basketball vs the best competition game after game.   

[ballz2thewall]

Ballz that Memphis YMCA team was incredible: Anfernee Hardaway, Beck, Stewart, Randy Carter, just tremendous Memphis area talent.

man, you're right about that. i remember it well. that was a hotbed at that time; one of the hottest recruiting grounds around.

i asked you once, on mmqb i think; what's your day job?  don't have to be specific. just curious.

[ballz2thewall]

i have a  tangential mayberry story.

i did a gig with my band at the time on dickson street.  the hogs were playing texas the next day, a sunday.

we were loading out our gear mid-afternoon.  the game was on and the alcoholics had taken seat at the bar.  the was back and forth. this was in the day when penders had never beaten nolan [i THINK that was the case..?].

anyway, it was very close.  seconds ticked to near the end and the hogs were down.  mayberry takes the pass and nails a jumper to tie or win, can't remember [we won in the end].

at that very time an oldtimer boozer at the bar couldn't stand the pressure.  THUNK, his head hit the bar.  dead as a hammer; heart attack.

but, the hogs won.

[eusebius]

man, you're right about that. i remember it well. that was a hotbed at that time; one of the hottest recruiting grounds around.

i asked you once, on mmqb i think; what's your day job?  don't have to be specific. just curious.

I work for the U.S. Army taking care of our Soldiers.

I grew up in NEA so I have the luxury of getting to know a lot of the Memphis history and the Arkansas basketball history. Got to play vs some really good players. My older brother is the same age as Corliss Williamson, the Parkview Five and all those guys. We have videos of lots of AAU games, NEA tourney games, King Cotton Classics, in the late 80's and early 90's of all these guys and we are trying to figure out how to get it all off VHS and uploaded.     

[eusebius]

i have a  tangential mayberry story.

i did a gig with my band at the time on dickson street.  the hogs were playing texas the next day, a sunday.

we were loading out our gear mid-afternoon.  the game was on and the alcoholics had taken seat at the bar.  the was back and forth. this was in the day when penders had never beaten nolan [i THINK that was the case..?].

anyway, it was very close.  seconds ticked to near the end and the hogs were down.  mayberry takes the pass and nails a jumper to tie or win, can't remember [we won in the end].

at that very time an oldtimer boozer at the bar couldn't stand the pressure.  THUNK, his head hit the bar.  dead as a hammer; heart attack.

but, the hogs won.

LOL. I think you are talking about this game . . the Strolling w/ Nolan Game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLgdzJH4Tn8

[ballz2thewall]

LOL. I think you are talking about this game . . the Strolling w/ Nolan Game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLgdzJH4Tn8

WOW man!  you're good!

poor jimmy....

[eusebius]

WOW man!  you're good!

poor jimmy....

well my obsession with sports history puts my wife's patience to the test . . she should be nominated for sainthood.   

[Hogimus Prime]

Lee Mayberry was something else.  He was probably the best athlete on those teams he played on.  As he went so did the Hogs.

[intelligence]

I always though Kareem Reid was the best pg we ever had. I liked pargo, and beverly too, but Kareem was the best. The other guys were before my time or i was to young to see them play

[Hogimus Prime]

I always though Kareem Reid was the best pg we ever had. I liked pargo, and beverly too, but Kareem was the best. The other guys were before my time or i was to young to see them play

Kareem was good, but Lee was great.  He was quiet, but deadly.  Not too many people could get past him. I remember Nolan saying the only guy he saw that Lee couldn't stay in front was Kenny Anderson.  Mayberry may not have been has quick with the ball as Kareem, but he could do so much more

[Inhogswetrust]

If I had to draft a team from former Razorbacks, Beck would be the first player I would take period, not just at guard.

I like him but to select him over many former and good Hogs that went on to success in the pros is puzzling.

[eusebius]

Kareem was good, but Lee was great.  He was quiet, but deadly.  Not too many people could get past him. I remember Nolan saying the only guy he saw that Lee couldn't stay in front was Kenny Anderson.  Mayberry may not have been has quick with the ball as Kareem, but he could do so much more

The collection of pt guards in the 1990 Final Four is the greatest collection of pt guards ever in the Final Four:

Lee Mayberry, Ark
Greg Anthony, UNLV (National champion, runner up the next year, 10th on the NCAA's all time assist list)
Kenny Anderson (considered by most as the greatest player to come out of NYC since Lew Alcindor)
Bobby Hurley (three straight Final Fours and two straight championships, all time assist leader)

Anderson and Hurley were both freshman. 

   

[Sow Lancelot]

I work for the U.S. Army taking care of our Soldiers.

I grew up in NEA so I have the luxury of getting to know a lot of the Memphis history and the Arkansas basketball history. Got to play vs some really good players. My older brother is the same age as Corliss Williamson, the Parkview Five and all those guys. We have videos of lots of AAU games, NEA tourney games, King Cotton Classics, in the late 80's and early 90's of all these guys and we are trying to figure out how to get it all off VHS and uploaded.     

Eusebius, didn't you mention something about Danny Ebbs once?

[eusebius]

I like him but to select him over many former and good Hogs that went on to success in the pros is puzzling.

Puzzzling indeed . . . Day, Moncrief, Williamson, Johnson . . .among others I would take over Beck. 

[eusebius]

Eusebius, didn't you mention something about Danny Ebbs once?

I don't think  I did. That name is not ringing a bell. What's the story on him?

[Hogimus Prime]

The collection of pt guards in the 1990 Final Four is the greatest collection of pt guards ever in the Final Four:

Lee Mayberry, Ark
Greg Anthony, UNLV (National champion, runner up the next year, 10th on the NCAA's all time assist list)
Kenny Anderson (considered by most as the greatest player to come out of NYC since Lew Alcindor)
Bobby Hurley (three straight Final Fours and two straight championships, all time assist leader)

Anderson and Hurley were both freshman. 

   

That was a loaded pg group.  Always felt like Mayberry and Anthony were to unselfish at times, but considering the talent both had around them who can blame them.

The way the game is more guard orientated today I'd say all four of those players would have better stats and more effective.

[Inhogswetrust]

That was a loaded pg group.  Always felt like Mayberry and Anthony were to unselfish at times, but considering the talent both had around them who can blame them.

The way the game is more guard orientated today I'd say all four of those players would have better stats and more effective.

The game is not more guard oriented. There have always been guards.............................

[Hogimus Prime]

The game is not more guard oriented. There have always been guards.............................

Really? There's always been guards?  I thought this was somethings new.

The game now is more geared toward guards.  The way the rules are set, the way teams spread the court now, lack of true bigmen you put a Lee Mayberry type guard and he is more effective than he was in the early 90's.

[eusebius]

The game is not more guard oriented. There have always been guards.............................

In the late 80's early 90's basketball was played a faster pace. One year the Hogs averaged nearly 100 pts a game, Loyola Marymount was up in the 120's. Faster paced ball leads to more possessions and stats and assist opportunities.

College b-ball like college football has gone in cycles. At one time it was more guard oriented and at others it is been big man dominated: think Chamberlain, Russell, Alcindor. In the early 80's it was all about big men. Sampson at Virginia, Ewing at G'Town, Perkins and Worthy at UNC, Akeem at Houston. We had our own in Kleine. The three point line and up tempo basketball put the focus back on the perimeter players as well as the do it all guys. Players like Bird and Magic and then Jordan were ahead of their time and paved the way for guys who used to be relegated to the post to now play on the perimeter like Day at 6'8 and Hardaway 6'7 and eventually a guy like Glen Robinson at Purdue.

The string of great pt guards in college from the mid 80's to about '94, was a list of who's who of pt's: Mark Jackson, Chris Corciani, Sherman Douglas, Mayberry, Hurley, Anderson, Anthony, Hardaway, Chris Jackson, and then Jason Kidd. Prior to that Isiah Thomas was the dominant pt guard in a college basketball world full of big men.

Right now college basketball doesn't have a true identity as far as style of play. College ball is right now about the big name coaches: Calipari, Pitino, Izzo, Self, Williams, Boeheim. The one and dones make it hard to have any consistency. The only thing that is consistent are the big name coaches. 
       

[eusebius]

Really? There's always been guards?  I thought this was somethings new.

The game now is more geared toward guards.  The way the rules are set, the way teams spread the court now, lack of true bigmen you put a Lee Mayberry type guard and he is more effective than he was in the early 90's.

Mayberry's effectiveness comes from playing at a high tempo. He is exactly what the Hogs need now, but Lee Mayberry's don't grow on trees  If you have time go back and watch the McDonalds All American game from 1988, its on you-tube. Day and Mayberry are in it. You will see just how good Mayberry is with his court awareness and vision. It's unlike anything we've ever had on the Hill.     

[Hogimus Prime]

Mayberry's effectiveness comes from playing at a high tempo. He is exactly what the Hogs need now, but Lee Mayberry's don't grow on trees  If you have time go back and watch the McDonalds All American game from 1988, its on you-tube. Day and Mayberry are in it. You will see just how good Mayberry is with his court awareness and vision. It's unlike anything we've ever had on the Hill.     

I'll watch that sometime.  I like watching older games, cause the skill level was so much better.

Mayberry was just something else.  Talent wise he could've easily averaged 20+ points a game, but his mentality, his mind set wanted to create for others. 

IMO in the way the game is now, it's less phyiscal, easier for a guard to get to the lane and get a foul and go to the line a guard like Mayberry could easily average 26ppg.

[Hogimus Prime]

Anyone else notice that Mayberry's sr year Beck was a redshirt and Beck's sr year Reid sat out.

Not sure how Mayberry and Beck would've mixed, but thay 94-95 team could've used Reid due to lack of depth at te guard position.

[ballz2thewall]

Anyone else notice that Mayberry's sr year Beck was a redshirt and Beck's sr year Reid sat out.

Not sure how Mayberry and Beck would've mixed, but thay 94-95 team could've used Reid due to lack of depth at te guard position.

beck and mayberry would have been a dream come true.  beck would've been the dominant point and mayberry the all-around.  those two together, man, that would've been great.

i focus so much on beck because of his relentless team approach.  that was his personality on the court.  not in scoring but on getting the team in sync with the ball.  he had the knack of pace; he seemed to have a feeling for what pace was needed depending on the pulse of the team.  mayberry would have thrived even more with beck on the court.

think about what that guy meant to that team. but, you can't look at the stats to see it.  recall how our production slacked when he went to the bench.  and it wasn't because we missed his scoring. it was his court generalship and the uncanny ability to rebound when we needed it.

[Biggus Piggus]

Sometimes the blend of players is more important than the individual skills of the players.

[Inhogswetrust]

In the late 80's early 90's basketball was played a faster pace. One year the Hogs averaged nearly 100 pts a game, Loyola Marymount was up in the 120's. Faster paced ball leads to more possessions and stats and assist opportunities.

College b-ball like college football has gone in cycles. At one time it was more guard oriented and at others it is been big man dominated: think Chamberlain, Russell, Alcindor. In the early 80's it was all about big men. Sampson at Virginia, Ewing at G'Town, Perkins and Worthy at UNC, Akeem at Houston. We had our own in Kleine. The three point line and up tempo basketball put the focus back on the perimeter players as well as the do it all guys. Players like Bird and Magic and then Jordan were ahead of their time and paved the way for guys who used to be relegated to the post to now play on the perimeter like Day at 6'8 and Hardaway 6'7 and eventually a guy like Glen Robinson at Purdue.

The string of great pt guards in college from the mid 80's to about '94, was a list of who's who of pt's: Mark Jackson, Chris Corciana, Sherman Douglas, Mayberry, Hurley, Anderson, Anthony, Hardaway, Chris Jackson, and then Jason Kidd. Prior to that Isiah Thomas was the dominant pt guard in a college basketball world full of big men.

Right now college basketball doesn't have a true identity as far as style of play. College ball is right now about the big name coaches: Calipari, Pitino, Izzo, Self, Williams, Boeheim. The one and dones make it hard to have any consistency. The only thing that is consistent are the big name coaches. 
       

Don't you find it ironic that Nolan's NC team was not the one that a lot of people equate with being the fastest playing team he had. You are attempting to equate fast pace to good guard play and they are not always interconnected. You can have GREAT guard play without playing fast. Some teams including Arkansas played VERY fast before the 80's and 90's. Our own Razorbacks had a coach that LOVED and played up tempo before Eddie got here. Perhaps you forgot about Van Eman. There has always been different philosophies about style of play ring way farther back than the 80's. I admit it does go in cycles as to what is more prevalent at different times.

[Inhogswetrust]

Sometimes the blend of players is more important than the individual skills of the players.

BINGO! Chemistry is a VERY important ingredient.

[Inhogswetrust]

Really? There's always been guards?  I thought this was somethings new.

The game now is more geared toward guards.  The way the rules are set, the way teams spread the court now, lack of true bigmen you put a Lee Mayberry type guard and he is more effective than he was in the early 90's.

Who was the best player on Nolan's NC team....................I'll give you a hint he didn't play guard. A lot of teams have spread the court going way back. Don't think that just because a team has a good big man then or now they don't spread the court. It takes good players at ALL positions to be successful. 

[Inhogswetrust]

Right now college basketball doesn't have a true identity as far as style of play. College ball is right now about the big name coaches: Calipari, Pitino, Izzo, Self, Williams, Boeheim. The one and dones make it hard to have any consistency. The only thing that is consistent are the big name coaches. 
       

I can certainly agree with this!

[ballz2thewall]

in very simple terms, fast pace is designed to minimize size differences.  equally simple; when you have bigs, use them.  slows the pace a bit but hopefully offset by scoring, etc.

pace notwithstanding; play defense.

a simple plan. /s

[Inhogswetrust]

in very simple terms, fast pace is designed to minimize size differences.  equally simple; when you have bigs, use them.  slows the pace a bit but hopefully offset by scoring, etc.

pace notwithstanding; play defense.

a simple plan. /s

I know of some coaches that damn near refused to play defense and played as fast on offense as they could......none of them lasted. One of them I mentioned previously was a former Hog coach......................

[eusebius]

Sometimes the blend of players is more important than the individual skills of the players.

Absolutely. The Hogs of May/Day and then our 93-94/ 94/95 teams had the right blend. Role players and stars. I think the 34-4 team that lost in the elite 8 to Kansas in '91 was the most talented team. They beat the eventual champ Duke earlier that year. Should have been Ark and UNLV that year in the final.   

[BadHog]

LOL. I think you are talking about this game . . the Strolling w/ Nolan Game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLgdzJH4Tn8

Oh my - haven't watched that in a while. WE WERE GOOD! And Nolan walking off the court! - there will never be another Nolan!

[eusebius]

Don't you find it ironic that Nolan's NC team was not the one that a lot of people equate with being the fastest playing team he had. You are attempting to equate fast pace to good guard play and they are not always interconnected. You can have GREAT guard play without playing fast. Some teams including Arkansas played VERY fast before the 80's and 90's. Our own Razorbacks had a coach that LOVED and played up tempo before Eddie got here. Perhaps you forgot about Van Eman. There has always been different philosophies about style of play ring way farther back than the 80's. I admit it does go in cycles as to what is more prevalent at different times.

Maybe I was unclear.  I don't think a particular style be it fast or slow tempo indicates whether a pt guard is effective. Whether it's half court or fast breaking basketball, in either case an effective guard controls tempo and gets teams in the right plays and so forth. Those guards I listed particularly Douglas at Syracuse and Jackson at St. John's didn't play in the up tempo offense like Mayberry but were effective in their own way. Hurley and Anderson could play wither way. Jackson was just a scoring machine.

And yes, you are correct, fast break and up tempo ball was around long before the 80's and early 90's. UCLA's teams used to play up tempo and score in the 100's, even beat Houston in the 68 title game 101-69.

     

[eusebius]

I know of some coaches that damn near refused to play defense and played as fast on offense as they could......none of them lasted. One of them I mentioned previously was a former Hog coach......................

Ark got over the hump and won the title when they could win a half court game.
During the 1993-94 season: our losses were 66-64 @ Bama, 72-71 /edit @ MSU

Then Kentucky just outplayed us 90-78 in the SEC finals.

Michigan tried to slow us down in the Elite 8, but we won 76-68
And then Duke tried to control tempo but we beat them 76-72   

[eusebius]

Anyone else notice that Mayberry's sr year Beck was a redshirt and Beck's sr year Reid sat out.

Not sure how Mayberry and Beck would've mixed, but thay 94-95 team could've used Reid due to lack of depth at te guard position.

Beck went to South Plains, JC before he came here and sat out a year. I know Anfernee Hardaway at Memphis was a Prop 48 casualty. I think Beck went to JC to get eligible. Nolan, George Raveling, John Thompson, and John Chaney were all outspoken about Prop 48 and getting requirements for eligibility equitable for African American athletes. I remember watching WMC TV 5 Memphis to see if Jarvis Greer would have good news or bad news when Hardaway took his ACT.     

[ballz2thewall]

what is still a mystery to me is that we won the 94 NC despite darnell robinson.

[eusebius]

what is still a mystery to me is that we won the 94 NC despite darnell robinson.

LOL . . .easy now .  . Tank had some big minutes. Always good to have two 6'11 guys to cause havoc inside on defense and bang on the boards. 

[ballz2thewall]

LOL . . .easy now .  . Tank had some big minutes. Always good to have two 6'11 guys to cause havoc inside on defense and bang on the boards.

this is true, no doubt. but the memory train called up the car of frustration.

[ErieHog]

what is still a mystery to me is that we won the 94 NC despite darnell robinson.

He was a super productive player that made Corliss' job much easier.  We tend to forget he played limited minutes, but scored and rebounded pretty well, and created spacing nightmares.

[eusebius]

He was a super productive player that made Corliss' job much easier.  We tend to forget he played limited minutes, but scored and rebounded pretty well, and created spacing nightmares.

Here's some vintage Darnell footage on ESPN's Scholastic Sports America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-UV9L_6iAw

[eusebius]

How about some Alvin Robertson stories and love . . guys. I know he wasn't a true pt guard like Mayberry/Beck/Reid, but he had a great career here. Old timers share your stories?

   

[ErieHog]

How about some Alvin Robertson stories and love . . guys. I know he wasn't a true pt guard like Mayberry/Beck/Reid, but he had a great career here. Old timers share your stories?

   

I think Alvin sort of suffers because he was between two great eras of Razorback basketball;  he came after the Triplets, and never quite lived up to that level of success, but before the May-Day-Miller teams. 

[eusebius]

I think Alvin sort of suffers because he was between two great eras of Razorback basketball;  he came after the Triplets, and never quite lived up to that level of success, but before the May-Day-Miller teams.

I think that is a big part of it. Eddie's offense was get the ball inside to Joe. Alvin also played with Walker who bore some of the scoring load. Alvin was really good in big games: 10 assists in the UNC upset in 84, the first recorded U of A triple double at Texas (23pts, 11 rebs 10 asst), an 8 steal game in the NCAA tourney.

We saw how good he was in the pros. Jordan noted that Robertson was one of the guys that guarded him the toughest and Sid was one of the others.     

[PonderinHog]

How about some Alvin Robertson stories and love . . guys. I know he wasn't a true pt guard like Mayberry/Beck/Reid, but he had a great career here. Old timers share your stories?

I remember an NCAA tourney game against Kansas State.  Alvin and Darrell trapped some poor dude at between the 3/4 and the half court line, stole the ball and then "shared" an easy layup.  We were up comfortably at the half, but Eddie "went conservative" and we lost the damn game.

[eusebius]

I remember an NCAA tourney game against Kansas State.  Alvin and Darrell trapped some poor dude at between the 3/4 and the half court line, stole the ball and then "shared" an easy layup.  We were up comfortably at the half, but Eddie "went conservative" and we lost the damn game.

Alvin and Darrell were two tough SOB's and they would fight anyone. If they had been in the game vs Iowa St, they might have fouled out or gotten thrown out, but Niang and his teammates would have spent the majority of the game on their backs. LOL.