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What has caused the OL issues?

Started by Nipsey Mussle, September 16, 2017, 01:08:01 am

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MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: WilsonHog on October 01, 2017, 03:51:14 pm
Ah, but of course we have the best fans around.

I have no comment, even though I commented. ;)
Go Hogs Go!

PorkRinds

Quote from: DoubleReedHawgCaller on October 01, 2017, 11:50:38 am
WTH!!! Good lord man you're just delusional.

If we had ragnow at center, Gibson and froholdt at guard, Jackson st RT and a good option at LT we'd be pretty decent. That's just the truth.

 

Hogs-n-Roses

Quote from: WilsonHog on October 01, 2017, 11:30:19 am
I respect the hell out of Austin Allen. It is amazing to me that Austin Allen gets criticized for holding the ball too long when he is doing it to try to make a play. Do you people not realize that he KNOWS he is about to get the piss knocked out of him?

Guarantee if he was throwing it out of bounds to avoid the hit, the Hogville narrative would be, "The kid is gutless."

The truth is, our offense is pretty complex. Has a lot of moving parts. I'm convinced that's why we tend to start every season slowly.
This. I saw 4 or 5 other SEC teams yesterday, Tennessee,South Carolina, Ole Miss, especially LSU struggle with the same OL issue. It gave me hope as each of those teams has recruited better at the OL than we have cept maybe SC. The Austin A. part of your post is accurate. NO one would want to take THOSE HITS. He may miss from time to time in looking for receivers but mostly he's out of sinc for other reasons.

HardCore

Quote from: Arazorbackguy1 on October 01, 2017, 08:53:53 am
As you all saw yesterday, guys were slicing and dicing our OL.  Is it talent, scheme, competition throwing relenting blitzes, or coaching?  On replays, I see O-Linemen not even seeing the defender run right past them. 

It is big ole boys that are just big....not agile
Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; lick it once and you'll suck forever....Brian Wilson (Beach Boys)

KennyForAD

Line isn't any good.  QB isn't any good.  Receivers aren't very good.  All there is to it. Defense is pretty weak. Bama can hang 70 on us. 

HardCore

Quote from: KennyForAD on October 01, 2017, 04:45:44 pm
Line isn't any good.  QB isn't any good.  Receivers aren't very good.  All there is to it. Defense is pretty weak. Bama can hang 70 on us. 

If they choose to..yes
Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; lick it once and you'll suck forever....Brian Wilson (Beach Boys)

GoHogs1091

A combination of 3 things.

Both of the Tackle positions have not been figured out.  Gibson is being played out of position to try to compensate at the Right Tackle position, but that has led to the Right Guard position not being solid.  Simply put, 3 out of 5 OL positions not being what they need to be will lead to sieve OL play.  If Gibson would get moved back to Right Guard, then it would then become just a 2 position (Tackles) problem.  I presume moving Gibson back to Right Guard is too complicated of a basic fundamental decision for the Head Coach to make.

Kurt Anderson has probably oversaturated them with technique concepts.  That is probably making them think too much.  In a lot of instances, just being more physical can be more important than garbage NFL type technique.

Dan Enos' MAC conference offense has too many long developing plays.  The plays need to be more quickly developing against competent defenses.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: KennyForAD on October 01, 2017, 04:45:44 pm
Line isn't any good.  QB isn't any good.  Receivers aren't very good.  All there is to it. Defense is pretty weak. Bama can hang 70 on us. 

You are so far out in left field. Maybe you need to start writing a column for Saturday Down South.
Go Hogs Go!

KennyForAD

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on October 01, 2017, 05:00:12 pm
You are so far out in left field. Maybe you need to start writing a column for Saturday Down South.

What I get wrong?

MuskogeeHogFan

Go Hogs Go!

GuvHog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on October 01, 2017, 05:00:12 pm
You are so far out in left field. Maybe you need to start writing a column for Saturday Down South.

Agreed. AA wasn't sacked at all yesterday and the offensive line opened up gaping holes for the running game allowing the offense to amass over 400 yards total offense and 43 points.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: GuvHog on October 01, 2017, 05:04:40 pm
Agreed. AA wasn't sacked at all yesterday and the offensive line opened up gaping holes for the running game allowing the offense to amass over 400 yards total offense and 43 points.

I wasn't just speaking to yesterdays game.
Go Hogs Go!

KennyForAD

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on October 01, 2017, 05:03:26 pm
2-1/2 out of 3.

Okey Dokey.  Enjoy your fantasy world, where everyone drinks free bubalub and Austin Allen is a pro prospect.  lol

 

jcbville


FANONTHEHILL

I'm still trying to get past "NFL type garbage technique" mentioned in a post above.  Technique tips the scale in your favor when your aren't phyiscally dominant.  When you are physically dominant, it makes you more so.
Favorite quote from practice.  Made to my son:<br /><br /><br />Technique is nice, but it comes down to this.  Block the F'er in front of you. - Sam Pittman 2015

Dwight_K_Shrute

Quote from: factchecker on October 01, 2017, 03:40:19 pm
Yep, Kugler "stepped down".

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/10/1/16352378/sean-kugler-fired-utep-coach.

Please..... hire him as a consultant and move him into the offensive line position soon.



I actually tweeted this when I saw the news.  You have a chance to upgrade, take it.  Let him be the guy but let Anderson keep the title until the end of the year and then when the coaching carousel goes into effect Anderson should be able to find a job. Kugler is too good not to pick up.  Besides Anderson is used to being the assistant to the assistant.  Bet Kugler's experience at UTEP would also be beneficial in recruiting Texas, no he was recruiting 4 and 5 * kids but I'm sure he has a decent knowledge of the Texas HS scene and contacts and relationships.  Would be an upgrade in position coaching and recruiting.
Little known fact, but prior to settling on Guantanamo, the Pentagon wanted to house terror suspects at War Memorial Stadium.  It was deemed to be cruel and unusual punishment and in violation of the Geneva Convention.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: KennyForAD on October 01, 2017, 05:06:42 pm
Okey Dokey.  Enjoy your fantasy world, where everyone drinks free bubalub and Austin Allen is a pro prospect.  lol

That's a typically childish comment when you have nothing better to add than just a negative comment. Pile on by all means, it is easy, stylish and in vogue. Incorrect, but you will be, "one of the guys".
Go Hogs Go!

GoHogs1091

Quote from: FANONTHEHILL on October 01, 2017, 05:09:42 pm
I'm still trying to get past "NFL type garbage technique" mentioned in a post above.  Technique tips the scale in your favor when your aren't phyiscally dominant.  When you are physically dominant, it makes you more so.

Sam Pittman taught them to be physical and to push defenders down the field.

Kurt Anderson is infatuated with NFL technique.  That has come at the expense of physicality.  There isn't enough time at the NCAA level (hours limitation per week) to be trying to teach and get fancy with NFL technique.

KennyForAD

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on October 01, 2017, 05:18:13 pm
That's a typically childish comment when you have nothing better to add than just a negative comment. Pile on by all means, it is easy, stylish and in vogue. Incorrect, but you will be, "one of the guys".

How drunk are you? 

KennyForAD

Are you drunk enough that you think the Hogs have such a good team that I am the nut for thinking they aren't very good?   Or are you just insane?   

GuvHog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on October 01, 2017, 05:06:01 pm
I wasn't just speaking to yesterdays game.

They did pretty well against A&M too.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

TNRazorbacker

Everyone is understandably hyper sensitive about the oline right now and picking it apart. As a unit the subpar play has earned the scrutiny, but we also need to recognize we may be a bit over-conscious of it too.

I'd tend to compare yesterday with what we saw against FL A&M. A lesser opponent than NMS that had a lot more success pressuring Allen. They got a sack and were consistently harassing him. NMS wasn't nearly as effective. I'd assess that as improvement, granted we still need to see improvement vs an SEC opponent, but improvement nonetheless.  We'll see how things go vs SC.

Im a bit more optimistic about our chances for this season after watching yesterdays games. We still have our problems but certainly no worse than a few others in west. Lots of winnable games still to play.

FANONTHEHILL

October 01, 2017, 05:36:54 pm #222 Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 06:01:22 pm by FANONTHEHILL
Quote from: GoHogs1091 on October 01, 2017, 05:27:12 pm
Sam Pittman taught them to be physical and to push defenders down the field.

Kurt Anderson is infatuated with NFL technique.  That has come at the expense of physicality.  There isn't enough time at the NCAA level (hours limitation per week) to be trying to get teach and get fancy with NFL technique.

Pittman recruited to that style and when he was told that the offense was going in another direction (mobility) for Enos' offense, he left.  They don't get the 6'6", 350 guys anymore.  Pittman left and they scrambled to get Heinrich out of HS and Rauelrson as a Grad transfer, and Malone and Ramirez from a Juco.  When Anderson went out an got a class signed, it was Clary, Adcock, Clenin, and Wagner.  That's 6'5", 6'5", 6'6", and 6'9" all between 285 and 315.  This is what the OC wants.  Mobility with good technique.  Clones of Ragnow.  Clenin will be a beast. 

I'm excited that they seem to have lined up the playbook.  They haven't scratched the surface of what Enos did at Central Michigan.
Favorite quote from practice.  Made to my son:<br /><br /><br />Technique is nice, but it comes down to this.  Block the F'er in front of you. - Sam Pittman 2015

MuskogeeHogFan

Go Hogs Go!

 

Dominicanhog

My biggest concern is they (coaches) seem so unsettled about who to play and where.. it  makes me wonder if they learned anything from last year or during Spring and Fall camp... that said, I don't think it's been the OL's fault.. they've probably been the most consistent unit.. 

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on October 01, 2017, 04:58:06 pm
A combination of 3 things.

Both of the Tackle positions have not been figured out.  Gibson is being played out of position to try to compensate at the Right Tackle position, but that has led to the Right Guard position not being solid.  Simply put, 3 out of 5 OL positions not being what they need to be will lead to sieve OL play.  If Gibson would get moved back to Right Guard, then it would then become just a 2 position (Tackles) problem.  I presume moving Gibson back to Right Guard is too complicated of a basic fundamental decision for the Head Coach to make.

Kurt Anderson has probably oversaturated them with technique concepts.  That is probably making them think too much.  In a lot of instances, just being more physical can be more important than garbage NFL type technique.

Dan Enos' MAC conference offense has too many long developing plays.  The plays need to be more quickly developing against competent defenses.

In summary, not sure we have any SEC caliber OT's. 
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

GoHogs1091

Quote from: Captain Morgan on October 01, 2017, 12:10:37 pm
It started w Samantha Pittman and ended with Kurt Anderson

Samantha Pittman??

Keep in mind that Sam Pittman recruited and landed Frank Ragnow.

Doubtful Kurt Anderson will land another Ragnow type of an Offensive Lineman.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: KennyForAD on October 01, 2017, 05:31:22 pm
Are you drunk enough that you think the Hogs have such a good team that I am the nut for thinking they aren't very good?   Or are you just insane?   

No, I think that a lot of you feed off of each other and hyper-react. Nothing is as bad as some of you want to make it seem, it also isn't as good as some others might want to believe. We have work to do on the O-Line, but no one would be judging them so harshly if we had more experienced receivers who knew how to execute patterns and get open earlier. Then AA wouldn't be standing there waiting for them to break free because he wants to complete every throw.

In all but one game we have exceeded 200 yards rushing and after 4 games we are averaging 4.8 Yds/rush. That's not bad especially given the fact that Whaley is a young Soph. and still learning and Chase Hayden has very few snaps under his belt. Glad we have David. He's been an asset.

Still, we aren't perfect on the O-Line in pass pro, but as I have said before, half the Sacks that we have can't be attributed to the O-Line. RB's and TE's have missed on their pass pro and then AA is trying to wait until the last second to try to give the younger receivers a chance to get open. That leads to more hits on the QB. That's just how it is.

The defense is improved in many ways. They are more aggressive than last year but still not as consistently aggressive as we might like to see. I understand that, but they are 4 games into a new defensive scheme and still matriculating. You aren't going to see a refined product 4 games into a new scheme. In fact everyone on this board was discussing that every thing before the season started, yet here we are 4 games in and it has turned to, "woe is me, we suck".

And AA is a good QB but he is just doing the same thing that he did at the last part of last season, trying to put the whole team on his back and taking shots that he doesn't need to take. He's one of the best in the SEC if he can just learn to throw it away and live to play another play. Of course the receivers as a whole (not just 1, 2 or the occasional 3) need to get their act together and help out. That will open up the TE passing game and the run game even more.

So yeah, it's just my opinion but I think you are way off the mark along with anyone who thinks that way. We aren't that far from being a far better and more consistent team and if the defense can be just average, they will give us an opportunity to win 8 or 9 this year. But I will say that from a scheming standpoint on offense, we have to stop playing so conservative in the second half of games and continue to put the foot on the gas.

That's my two cents.
Go Hogs Go!

ballz2thewall

Quote from: FANONTHEHILL on October 01, 2017, 12:25:54 pm
I've always like the Enos playbook.  My hope is that we continue to see more of it.  Against TCU, And anyone else for that matter, I wish they would spread things out rather than compress the line of scrimmage in the red zone. They aren't 340 across the board anymore and can't just go straight downhill against 8 man fronts.  4 for 4 in the red zone yesterday is a huge step in the right direction.

completely agree on spreading things out. let the backs do some of the work. hell, throw in some zone read.
The rest of the frog.

ShadowHawg


Dominicanhog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on October 01, 2017, 06:30:25 pm
No, I think that a lot of you feed off of each other and hyper-react. Nothing is as bad as some of you want to make it seem, it also isn't as good as some others might want to believe. We have work to do on the O-Line, but no one would be judging them so harshly if we had more experienced receivers who knew how to execute patterns and get open earlier. Then AA wouldn't be standing there waiting for them to break free because he wants to complete every throw.

In all but one game we have exceeded 200 yards rushing and after 4 games we are averaging 4.8 Yds/rush. That's not bad especially given the fact that Whaley is a young Soph. and still learning and Chase Hayden has very few snaps under his belt. Glad we have David. He's been an asset.

Still, we aren't perfect on the O-Line in pass pro, but as I have said before, half the Sacks that we have can't be attributed to the O-Line. RB's and TE's have missed on their pass pro and then AA is trying to wait until the last second to try to give the younger receivers a chance to get open. That leads to more hits on the QB. That's just how it is.

The defense is improved in many ways. They are more aggressive than last year but still not as consistently aggressive as we might like to see. I understand that, but they are 4 games into a new defensive scheme and still matriculating. You aren't going to see a refined product 4 games into a new scheme. In fact everyone on this board was discussing that every thing before the season started, yet here we are 4 games in and it has turned to, "woe is me, we suck".

And AA is a good QB but he is just doing the same thing that he did at the last part of last season, trying to put the whole team on his back and taking shots that he doesn't need to take. He's one of the best in the SEC if he can just learn to throw it away and live to play another play. Of course the receivers as a whole (not just 1, 2 or the occasional 3) need to get their act together and help out. That will open up the TE passing game and the run game even more.

So yeah, it's just my opinion but I think you are way off the mark along with anyone who thinks that way. We aren't that far from being a far better and more consistent team and if the defense can be just average, they will give us an opportunity to win 8 or 9 this year. But I will say that from a scheming standpoint on offense, we have to stop playing so conservative in the second half of games and continue to put the foot on the gas.

That's my two cents.

You sure get a lot for your money...

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Dominicanhog on October 01, 2017, 06:38:25 pm
You sure get a lot for your money...

I try to, especially when some folks just want to make a blanket statement that everything on the team is bad.
Go Hogs Go!

ballz2thewall

Quote from: rhames on October 01, 2017, 03:43:50 pm
My thing is why not change the play at the line in the red zone when you see 10 people in the box.


Other than that I've been happy with the progress of the offense the last month.

good point.
The rest of the frog.

prattville pig

I watched a lot of games yesterday, and I saw a lot of not very good offensive lines.
Life's too short to last long.

Letsroll1200

Quote from: LRHawg on October 01, 2017, 12:07:39 pm
Yes! I think this should be the starting right side going forward.

Gibson is a guard. Put B. Wallace in the game.

Dominicanhog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on October 01, 2017, 06:39:33 pm
I try to, especially when some folks just want to make a blanket statement that everything on the team is bad.

I understand and have been guilty myself of voicing frustration.. but this story is yet to be written, though we all think we know how it ends... We'll know a lot more about "how good we are" over the next month.. you can bet one thing for sure, some will be on here saying. I told you so..

Hogvillage Idiot

Quote from: JaketheSnake on October 01, 2017, 09:45:36 am
We saw a little more shotgun yesterday.  Hopefully that means we are planning more of that.  I understand being under center to really sell a handoff, but in obvious passion downs, why waste time faking the handoff?  We are not running a draw on 3rd and 12.
;D
"Winning is like shaving - do it every day or you wind up looking like a bum."

Jack Kemp

ballz2thewall

one thing i've noticed.

our tackles allow the DE or whomever is on the end, a free pass when the play is to the other side.

you can tell that it's by design.

on many such times, that free running defender ends up affecting the play.

and if you follow our tackles, they aren't off to more important blocks elsewhere. i saw it against tcu and atm.

this might somehow be acceptable offensive philosophy. if that's the case, then it needs to be changed.

i'm not talking whiffs. i'm talking about a free pass. 
The rest of the frog.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: IronHog on October 01, 2017, 09:45:15 am

It's both.....slow plays, bad OL play.


Allen isn't the best at dealing with pressure either. 

Why do you care since the game was in NWA.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Al Boarland

Better, worse or the same as last season?

nchogg


31to6


Jimbob111

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on October 01, 2017, 06:30:25 pm
No, I think that a lot of you feed off of each other and hyper-react. Nothing is as bad as some of you want to make it seem, it also isn't as good as some others might want to believe. We have work to do on the O-Line, but no one would be judging them so harshly if we had more experienced receivers who knew how to execute patterns and get open earlier. Then AA wouldn't be standing there waiting for them to break free because he wants to complete every throw.

In all but one game we have exceeded 200 yards rushing and after 4 games we are averaging 4.8 Yds/rush. That's not bad especially given the fact that Whaley is a young Soph. and still learning and Chase Hayden has very few snaps under his belt. Glad we have David. He's been an asset.

Still, we aren't perfect on the O-Line in pass pro, but as I have said before, half the Sacks that we have can't be attributed to the O-Line. RB's and TE's have missed on their pass pro and then AA is trying to wait until the last second to try to give the younger receivers a chance to get open. That leads to more hits on the QB. That's just how it is.

The defense is improved in many ways. They are more aggressive than last year but still not as consistently aggressive as we might like to see. I understand that, but they are 4 games into a new defensive scheme and still matriculating. You aren't going to see a refined product 4 games into a new scheme. In fact everyone on this board was discussing that every thing before the season started, yet here we are 4 games in and it has turned to, "woe is me, we suck".

And AA is a good QB but he is just doing the same thing that he did at the last part of last season, trying to put the whole team on his back and taking shots that he doesn't need to take. He's one of the best in the SEC if he can just learn to throw it away and live to play another play. Of course the receivers as a whole (not just 1, 2 or the occasional 3) need to get their act together and help out. That will open up the TE passing game and the run game even more.

So yeah, it's just my opinion but I think you are way off the mark along with anyone who thinks that way. We aren't that far from being a far better and more consistent team and if the defense can be just average, they will give us an opportunity to win 8 or 9 this year. But I will say that from a scheming standpoint on offense, we have to stop playing so conservative in the second half of games and continue to put the foot on the gas.

That's my two cents.

This is a great post. Let me ask you this, though. To my untrained eye, the offensive and defensive line as well as the receivers all seem to lack any SEC talent or speed with the past two recruiting classes aside from Agim and Ragnow. Nance went JUCO because no coach wanted him to play receiver and he looks most promising on this squad.   Do you see this improving under this staff? Recruiting and development, that is.

Either there is talent there and it's not being developed or the talent is not there to develop. If both talent and development were there, we wouldn't have this thread.

On game day, this does not appear to be a Razorbacks team and does not appear to be an SEC team. They fail the eye test, both on the sideline and in the game, to me.

While your post was spot-on, it applies to all teams at all levels on any given season without taking into account this specific team and this specific coaching staff compared to previous seasons. Do you feel like recruiting and development are going to improve under this staff based on what we've seen in the past four and a half years?

I'll hang up and listen.
"DO NOT POST IN THE GAME THREAD ANYMORE TODAY OR YOU WILL RECIEVE A 30 BAN!"--

Multiple play-by-play posters followed by "Good job, D" and "Way to go, Offense" is so interesting to read over and over as the team gets blown out and the coaches flounder. I can't figure out why game threads don't have 60 to 80 pages now.

Am I the only one that misses the old, interesting game threads?

FANONTHEHILL

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on October 01, 2017, 06:49:23 pm
Gibson is a guard. Put B. Wallace in the game.
Wallace doesn't make the call adjustments and as a result isn't in the field.  Gibson is a known  for playing guard from the Florida game forward last year,  but actually backed up Kirkland at LT in 2015.  He can play both spots on both sides. 
Favorite quote from practice.  Made to my son:<br /><br /><br />Technique is nice, but it comes down to this.  Block the F'er in front of you. - Sam Pittman 2015

FANONTHEHILL

Quote from: ballz2thewall on October 01, 2017, 06:53:58 pm
one thing i've noticed.

our tackles allow the DE or whomever is on the end, a free pass when the play is to the other side.

you can tell that it's by design.

on many such times, that free running defender ends up affecting the play.

and if you follow our tackles, they aren't off to more important blocks elsewhere. i saw it against tcu and atm.

this might somehow be acceptable offensive philosophy. if that's the case, then it needs to be changed.

i'm not talking whiffs. i'm talking about a free pass. 
Zone running plays that leave the end free are something in their scheme.  That's the situation where the RB needs to stay with the flow and get the shirt gain rather than try to bust a big play.  A perfect example was Hayden in the TCU game on his second carry. Had 4yds on the right side but cut back to the left into the pursuit trying to make a big play.  2yd loss and he was pulled for the day.  I don't agree he shouldn't have gone back in, but he should have been coached up and reminded to run the play as called. Cut back at the second level, not before you reach the designed hole.
Favorite quote from practice.  Made to my son:<br /><br /><br />Technique is nice, but it comes down to this.  Block the F'er in front of you. - Sam Pittman 2015

FANONTHEHILL

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on October 01, 2017, 06:28:32 pm
Samantha Pittman??

Keep in mind that Sam Pittman recruited and landed Frank Ragnow.

Doubtful Kurt Anderson will land another Ragnow type of an Offensive Lineman.
Clenin will be that type of player.  The difference is Clenin is redshirting like every Olineman should be in an ideal situation. 
Favorite quote from practice.  Made to my son:<br /><br /><br />Technique is nice, but it comes down to this.  Block the F'er in front of you. - Sam Pittman 2015

Youngsta71701

What is wrong with the OL? The answer to that question is elementary my dear. Brian Wallace isn't playing right tackle.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

MuskogeeHogFan

October 02, 2017, 06:16:22 pm #247 Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 06:26:34 pm by MuskogeeHogFan
Quote from: Jimbob111 on October 02, 2017, 07:07:07 am
This is a great post. Let me ask you this, though. To my untrained eye, the offensive and defensive line as well as the receivers all seem to lack any SEC talent or speed with the past two recruiting classes aside from Agim and Ragnow. Nance went JUCO because no coach wanted him to play receiver and he looks most promising on this squad.   Do you see this improving under this staff? Recruiting and development, that is.


I wish I were in a position to have a better opinion on this. There is so much that many of us voice as being "truth" but not being able to be there in practice every day and seeing what these kids are doing and what they are being taught, it is difficult to make any informed judgement. Many get ticked when we say, "have to trust the staff", but who else are we going to trust? They either get it done or they don't. If they do, they'll be around a while longer. If they don't (for whatever reason), they won't. I know, it is a helpless feeling when you want to see these kids perform and for a variety of reasons that are unknown to us, they don't perform at as high of a level as we might hope. I do feel confident that it has nothing to do with desire. Every single one of these kids want to execute at the highest level possible.

Quote from: Jimbob111 on October 02, 2017, 07:07:07 am
On game day, this does not appear to be a Razorbacks team and does not appear to be an SEC team. They fail the eye test, both on the sideline and in the game, to me.


We say that, but this team isn't finished. I have confidence that the defense will get better most every game. Will they be "out-talented" in games against the likes of Alabama, Auburn and LSU? Sure, but obviously talent level isn't everything or else A&M would have blown our doors off and LSU wouldn't be looking the way that they are right now. That alone should be evident truth to all of us that it requires more than an enormous collection of talent. Even Ole Miss, who has had some great recruiting classes, was embarrassed by Alabama last weekend. It isn't just talent, it is the status of that equally important 6 inches between the ears and the amount of heart that a team possesses.

Quote from: Jimbob111 on October 02, 2017, 07:07:07 am
While your post was spot-on, it applies to all teams at all levels on any given season without taking into account this specific team and this specific coaching staff compared to previous seasons. Do you feel like recruiting and development are going to improve under this staff based on what we've seen in the past four and a half years?

I have no idea what is going to occur. Wish I did. If I could predict such things I would be royalty in Las Vegas. I know this, recruiting improves with wins. We have a built-in disadvantage in terms of recruiting which is why we have to go more "national" in recruiting. But this is the circumstance where wins are even more important to recruiting development. But again, it isn't all about talent. The "state of mind", the self imposed dedication and self discipline is a culture that is developed by the emphasis of the coaching staff, which is what we are getting from these players as influenced by this staff. But youth makes a player a little less disciplined until they learn the truth that the staff and the Sr. leadership is attempting to teach them. Often times they have to learn the hard way and the bigger the star in HS, sometimes the more difficult it is to teach at the college level. Instincts are important, but what they are accustomed to being able to do in HS, isn't going to always be as successful in the SEC. There is a learning curve, even for a kid who is a phenomenal athlete. The sooner they listen and learn, the sooner that they eclipse the "young player" mode.

Now are there also errors in coaching and schemes/game planning? Perhaps. We would have to be in staff meetings to understand the game plan and why they planned as they did and then what we actually see in games. Without having an opportunity to view and experience both on a first hand basis, it is far easier to look like a moron posting an opinion on a message board. And yes, like everyone else I have an opinion, but it isn't informed enough to be accurate since I am not privy to any of these meetings.

JMO
Go Hogs Go!

GuvHog

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on October 02, 2017, 08:14:16 am
What is wrong with the OL? The answer to that question is elementary my dear. Brian Wallace isn't playing right tackle.

Because he keeps getting the signals messed up and isn't getting it done in practice.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

KennyForAD

October 02, 2017, 09:08:38 pm #249 Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 09:26:19 pm by KennyForAD
Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on October 01, 2017, 06:30:25 pm
No, I think that a lot of you feed off of each other and hyper-react. Nothing is as bad as some of you want to make it seem, it also isn't as good as some others might want to believe. We have work to do on the O-Line, but no one would be judging them so harshly if we had more experienced receivers who knew how to execute patterns and get open earlier. Then AA wouldn't be standing there waiting for them to break free because he wants to complete every throw.

In all but one game we have exceeded 200 yards rushing and after 4 games we are averaging 4.8 Yds/rush. That's not bad especially given the fact that Whaley is a young Soph. and still learning and Chase Hayden has very few snaps under his belt. Glad we have David. He's been an asset.

Still, we aren't perfect on the O-Line in pass pro, but as I have said before, half the Sacks that we have can't be attributed to the O-Line. RB's and TE's have missed on their pass pro and then AA is trying to wait until the last second to try to give the younger receivers a chance to get open. That leads to more hits on the QB. That's just how it is.

The defense is improved in many ways. They are more aggressive than last year but still not as consistently aggressive as we might like to see. I understand that, but they are 4 games into a new defensive scheme and still matriculating. You aren't going to see a refined product 4 games into a new scheme. In fact everyone on this board was discussing that every thing before the season started, yet here we are 4 games in and it has turned to, "woe is me, we suck".

And AA is a good QB but he is just doing the same thing that he did at the last part of last season, trying to put the whole team on his back and taking shots that he doesn't need to take. He's one of the best in the SEC if he can just learn to throw it away and live to play another play. Of course the receivers as a whole (not just 1, 2 or the occasional 3) need to get their act together and help out. That will open up the TE passing game and the run game even more.

So yeah, it's just my opinion but I think you are way off the mark along with anyone who thinks that way. We aren't that far from being a far better and more consistent team and if the defense can be just average, they will give us an opportunity to win 8 or 9 this year. But I will say that from a scheming standpoint on offense, we have to stop playing so conservative in the second half of games and continue to put the foot on the gas.

That's my two cents.

That's a good two cents!  Very good stuff.  Thank you for that.  Believe it or not, I hope you're right, and I'll bet that you ARE right.  I don't know as much as you, but I'll try to give you the best response I can from my perspective.  First and foremost, I don't know enough to have any suggestions of how to fix things.  I just know what I see.  If I am wrong about any of it, it won't surprise me, or hurt my feelings to be corrected.  Anyway, here's what I see:   

Offense:  I see an offensive line that routinely gets dominated on both ends and sometimes up the middle when pass blocking.  The line seems pretty good run blocking when it is not obvious that we are going to run the ball, but has GREAT difficulty gaining any yardage in obvious, or 'power rushing' attempts, and seems downright horrible at pass blocking.  Do I know how to fix those problems?  No.  No idea.  But I see the problems - and I'm pretty sure I'm right, because I saw it in game one, and it hasn't changed yet - not even Saturday against NMST.  Does that mean I disagree with your belief that it can be easily fixed? No.  I see no reason it can't change.  Receivers: I see receivers that are talented but don't seem to be running correct routes at times.  I don't know why that is, or even that I am certain that is the case.  I've just seen several balls thrown to spots where the receiver was NOT, and Allen clearly had expected a receiver to go there. QB:   I see a QB that seems VERY frustrated and is having a hard time dealing with the horrible protection and the incorrect route running, and who has a clear problem with forcing passes and throwing INT's.  It looks to me like the difficulties with the receivers and with pass blocking came as a TOTAL surprise to him, and he has been completely unprepared for it.   Was it unfair for me to simply say, "He's not a very good QB?"  Absolutely.   That's just a simple way to say something that is much more complex than that.  I think he would be an excellent college QB if he had good protection and a 'go to' receiver like he had last year.  But MOST QB's are great in those conditions.  A truly great QB can deal with adversity and perform much better than he is.  I also believe that the coaches somehow missed the problems we were going to have in the passing game and completely failed to prepare him for it.  I see them calling more and more screen passes and quicker routes, and believe they are doing what they can to fix that problem.  But, for whatever reason, I see a QB who is not playing well.  When I say he's not a good QB, that's what I mean.  Also, favoritism has been a problem for as long as I can remember at Arkansas.  I don't know that it still goes on, but I do suspect it.  Loved Brandon.  Think he was a great QB.  Am I being unfair to Austin?  Maybe.  But its what I see.  Do I hope he proves me wrong?  ABSOLUTELY.

Defense:  Our D last year was horrible.  Simply horrible.  It has been addressed by BB and I like the changes.  But we are new to the 3-4 and problems are to be expected.  I see an improved defense.  No question.  But we are thin in some key positions, and... I just don't know.  I expect continued improvement throughout the season, but I don't expect to have a very good defense at any time this year.  I don't really hold that against BB.  Actually, I credit him for addressing it and I believe it is being fixed, and that it WILL be fixed.

Special teams:  All I know is what I see.  All my life, the coaches who value special teams equally to offense and defense ... win.  Jimmy Johnson is primary example.  Coaches who do not emphasize special teams ..lose.  It seems to me that BB does not place importance on special teams and it has bitten him, HARD.  With decent special teams we could have had a magical season two years ago (my memory stinks, but I think 2015 - and even last year could have been really good).   Maybe BB has just had some rotten luck...maybe, but I don't think so.  I haven't noticed us ever having a real threat as a returner.  I see poor kickoffs and sometimes poor coverage.  Placekicking has been a nightmare.  Punting has been really good, but that's it.  How do you fix it?  All I can suggest is to realize that ST are just as important as offense and actually emphasize excelling at ST's.  Other than that, I have no idea.  I'm no coach.  Its just what I see.

I like BB very much.  I am proud to have him as our coach, and VERY MUCH want him to succeed.  But all I know is what I see, and I see him failing on the field.  I don't know why, or how to fix things, but I DO believe he can fix it, and that he will.  What drives me nuts is people pretending these problems don't exist.  They do.  If I can see it, anyone can.  I don't really expect much.  All I want is a respectable coach who does things right, and who fields a competitive, well coached team.  Kenny Hatfield could be my coach forever.  So can BB, if he just fixes the problems and becomes truly competitive.

Hope you like my response, MHF.  I put a little effort into it for once, just for you.  But like I said, I don't know as much as you, and its just what I see and what I think.  You are a great poster and good guy, and deserve better responses than what I've given.  The rest of em, the nitwits, can sit and spin for all I care.   Sorry I twisted off on you the other day.  Was just frustrated.