Buying a new gun

[Junkyard Hog]

I bought (ordered) a new gun two weeks ago from Bass Pro in Grapevine.  It was no big deal.  He took my license, swiped it, and ran my credit card.  It came in fairly quick but I was unable to pick it up until yesterday.

When I got to the store I had to do an online background check.  No problems there, everything came back clean.  As he was about to give my gun to me he asked to see my driver's license again just to put me in the "bass pro" system to receive mail outs and such.  As he was entering it I mentioned I no longer live at the address on my license.  I moved several months back and haven't gotten it updated.  He then said he couldn't give me the gun.  He said I had to have a government issued ID with my picture and my current address on it.

I explained this is the same license I purchased the gun with.  He said they could sell it, they just couldn't release it.  Also, they aren't required to ask if the address is current, nor are they required to verify any address but if a person tells them the address is not correct they can't give them the gun.

I used my current address and social security card number during the online background check.  I had my social security card with me (but he explained it had to have a picture on it).  I had other forms of identification as well.  For all intents and purposes, they were able to determine that I was who I said I was and I was able to own a gun, but because I mentioned I now lived at a different location they could not give me my gun.  I mean, what's more important?  I think my social security number is more important than where I sleep at night.

He said there would be no problem if I didn't mention I moved.  I explained I live 3 hours away and that I couldn't just "go get" a new license.  He (and his manager) said their hands were tied so I told him I didn't want the gun and I wanted my money back.  No problems there.

My wife then asked to purchase a rifle.  Her license has been updated.  They said they could not sell her a rifle because it would be a straw purchase.

Who are these laws protecting???

[DeWayne R]

The commies in Washington!!!

[Wayne Watson]

I feel your pain but they followed the law to the letter.

Never offer any information that they do not ask for.

[Junkyard Hog]

I feel your pain but they followed the law to the letter.

Never offer any information that they do not ask for.

I understand they did what they had to.  I just don't understand what the point is of the law if they don't have to ask or verify any information.  They could've also asked me if the info was correct when I ordered the gun.  If they did that, I could've gotten in taken care of during the two weeks I waited to pick it up.

But you're right.  I won't be saying anything in addition next time.

[Albert Einswine]

I understand they did what they had to.  I just don't understand what the point is of the law if they don't have to ask or verify any information.  They could've also asked me if the info was correct when I ordered the gun.  If they did that, I could've gotten in taken care of during the two weeks I waited to pick it up.

But you're right.  I won't be saying anything in addition next time.

To deny the sale of a rifle to your wife on their suspicion that it's a "straw purchase" is highly offensive. There is both a presumption that your wife intends to evade the law and that she couldn't possibly want a rifle for herself because she is a woman.

[Junkyard Hog]

To deny the sale of a rifle to your wife on their suspicion that it's a "straw purchase" is highly offensive. There is both a presumption that your wife intends to evade the law and that she couldn't possibly want a rifle for herself because she is a woman.

Yeah, I felt like we could've pursued that a little more but the salesperson and manager were being so rude to us I decided I didn't want to do business with them anyway.

[Albert Einswine]

Yeah, I felt like we could've pursued that a little more but the salesperson and manager were being so rude to us I decided I didn't want to do business with them anyway.

It wouldn't even be a straw purchase, anyway. Because y'all are husband and wife and reside together it's property in common. I suppose when I purchased firearms for my minor sons for birthday and Christmas gifts, like my dad and granddad before me, those were also straw purchases.

[rickm1976]

It wouldn't even be a straw purchase, anyway. Because y'all are husband and wife and reside together it's property in common. I suppose when I purchased firearms for my minor sons for birthday and Christmas gifts, like my dad and granddad before me, those were also straw purchases.

Yes, they were all straw purchases, and were technically illegal.  Before last Christmas, I looked all over for a Marlin M60 .22 as a present for my grandson.  The only place I found one was at Walmart (only a last resort).  I went to purchase the rifle and casually mentioned that it was a Christmas present for my grandson, and the girl behind the counter told me that technically she wasn't supposed to sell it to me because that constituted a straw purchase.  Luckily, she was a level headed person, and said she would just pretend she didn't hear me say that.  She admitted it was a ridiculous law that would do nothing to stop those who wanted to obtain a firearm illegally.

[1highhog]

Never offer anymore information than just what's required, in other words, avoid the small talk.  I buy all of my guns through a way that none are in my name.  And I buy new guns, as well as hitting the newspapers for used ones as well as other online guns sites that sell.  I don't like the hassle of all the paperwork, especially when crooks don't go that route.

[Wayne Watson]

Yes, they were all straw purchases, and were technically illegal.  Before last Christmas, I looked all over for a Marlin M60 .22 as a present for my grandson.  The only place I found one was at Walmart (only a last resort).  I went to purchase the rifle and casually mentioned that it was a Christmas present for my grandson, and the girl behind the counter told me that technically she wasn't supposed to sell it to me because that constituted a straw purchase.  Luckily, she was a level headed person, and said she would just pretend she didn't hear me say that.  She admitted it was a ridiculous law that would do nothing to stop those who wanted to obtain a firearm illegally.

You are correct.

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

I bought (ordered) a new gun two weeks ago from Bass Pro in Grapevine.  It was no big deal.  He took my license, swiped it, and ran my credit card.  It came in fairly quick but I was unable to pick it up until yesterday.

When I got to the store I had to do an online background check.  No problems there, everything came back clean.  As he was about to give my gun to me he asked to see my driver's license again just to put me in the "bass pro" system to receive mail outs and such.  As he was entering it I mentioned I no longer live at the address on my license.  I moved several months back and haven't gotten it updated.  He then said he couldn't give me the gun.  He said I had to have a government issued ID with my picture and my current address on it.

I explained this is the same license I purchased the gun with.  He said they could sell it, they just couldn't release it.  Also, they aren't required to ask if the address is current nor are they required to verify any address but if a person tells them the address is not correct they can't give them the gun.

I used my current address and social security card number during the online background check.  I had my social security card with me (but he explained it had to have a picture on it).  I had other forms of identification as well.  For all intents and purposes, they were able to determine that I was who I said I was and I was able to own a gun, but because I mentioned I now lived at a different location they could not give me my gun.  I mean, what's more important?  I think my social security number is more important than where I sleep at night.

He said there would be no problem if I didn't mention I moved.  I explained I live 3 hours away and that I couldn't just "go get" a new license.  He (and his manager) said their hands were tied so I told him I didn't want the gun and I wanted my money back.  No problems there.

My wife then asked to purchase a rifle.  Her license has been updated.  They said they could not sell her a rifle because it would be a straw purchase.

Who are these laws protecting???

Strange?  I have several friends that work at different Academy stores.  They are required to ask if that is your current address.  I have been standing at the counter multiple times during a purchase & heard different clerks asking that very question.  It is usually one of the first questions they ask you.  If the customer tells them that is not the current address....they also, are not allowed to sell the firearm.

[Wayne Watson]

Strange?  I have several friends that work at different Academy stores.  They are required to ask if that is your current address.  I have been standing at the counter multiple times during a purchase & heard different clerks asking that very question.  It is usually one of the first questions they ask you.  If the customer tells them that is not the current address....they also, are not allowed to sell the firearm.

I bought a shotgun from Academy in Rogers in January and no one asked me if the address on my DL was correct.

[Junkyard Hog]

Strange?  I have several friends that work at different Academy stores.  They are required to ask if that is your current address.  I have been standing at the counter multiple times during a purchase & heard different clerks asking that very question.  It is usually one of the first questions they ask you.  If the customer tells them that is not the current address....they also, are not allowed to sell the firearm.

Yes, I thought it was very strange as well.  And I still don't understand the point.  If you lie, no problem.  If you tell the truth, problem.  The only people that'll catch are the honest guys.

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

I bought a shotgun from Academy in Rogers in January and no one asked me if the address on my DL was correct.

That doesn't surprise me.  Some of the employees that I know, that have transferred from one store to another,  have said that all of the stores don't use the exact same procedures.  You would think that as big as Academy is, they would have the same procedures at all stores for selling something like firearms that have federal regulations.  Sounds like they all need to get on the same page, & find out the real answer on whether this particular question/answer, is required or not.  I thought it was required. About a month ago, I saw a man get turned down for a gun sale for an incorrect/not current address.....while I was looking at binoculars at the Academy gun counter.

[DeltaBoy]

Technically a Straw purchase is Legal person buying a gun for a Felon or other non eligible person.  Not for gifts and such.

[rickm1976]

Technically a Straw purchase is Legal person buying a gun for a Felon or other non eligible person.  Not for gifts and such.

Well, I figured the same thing, but apparently if the seller has knowledge that you are purchasing the firearm for someone else (whether they can legally own one or not), then they can't legally sell it to you.  It's stupid, but it's the law.

[kodiakisland]

You can legally buy a gun and give it as a gift.  It is not a straw purchase.  A straw purchase is buying a gun for some one who can not legally buy one themselves.  When giving any gift, are you not the person buying it, whatever it is?  Call your local ATF if you don't believe it.  As long as it is legal for the person to receive the gun, you can buy it and give it as a gift.  Of course, you also have to follow state and local laws.  Some places don't allow transfer of guns as gifts without paperwork being done, but that is not on the Federal level. 

To make matters simple though, do not volunteer this info at the gun counter.  People working there are as  misinformed as people here.

[Albert Einswine]

You can legally buy a gun and give it as a gift.  It is not a straw purchase.  A straw purchase is buying a gun for some one who can not legally buy one themselves.  When giving any gift, are you not the person buying it, whatever it is?  Call your local ATF if you don't believe it.  As long as it is legal for the person to receive the gun, you can buy it and give it as a gift.  Of course, you also have to follow state and local laws.  Some places don't allow transfer of guns as gifts without paperwork being done, but that is not on the Federal level. 

To make matters simple though, do not volunteer this info at the gun counter.  People working there are as  misinformed as people here.

Bought my son a 7mm-08 at Gander Mtn for Christmas when he was 14, was matter of fact about it with the salesman at the gun counter. It was not a problem.

[kodiakisland]

Nope.  Not a problem.  Perfectly legal.  You can buy and give as a gift guns to minors as well.  Of course, state and local laws must be followed.

[rickm1976]

Nope.  Not a problem.  Perfectly legal.  You can buy and give as a gift guns to minors as well.  Of course, state and local laws must be followed.

Well, then someone needs to let the idiots at Walmart know, because apparently they are telling their employees that it's illegal even if it's a gift for someone who can legally own a gun.  They almost didn't sell me one when I mentioned it was a gift, and the clerk told me that was according to the ATF.  She said she would pretend she didn't hear what I said and sold it to me anyway, but insisted that they were instructed that any purchase for anyone else is considered a straw purchase.  It figures when you're talking about Walmart.  Academy is just as bad.  They ran an instant background check on a friend of mine even after he presented his CCL.  He refused to buy the gun and walked out.

[Wayne Watson]

Academy is just as bad.  They ran an instant background check on a friend of mine even after he presented his CCL.  He refused to buy the gun and walked out.

That's your friend's fault.  They must run a check on everyone at the time of the purchase...regardless of his having his CCL.  The CCL does not exempt anyone from being checked when purchasing a firearm.

[DeltaBoy]

We got tons of ill informed folks working Gun Counters at Academy , Walmart, Bass Pro and Gander Mountain and don't forget Dicks.  I had to stop a sells guy from selling the wrong High Power Rifle ammo to a lady.  30-06 wont take 300 win mag.

[kodiakisland]

Well, then someone needs to let the idiots at Walmart know, because apparently they are telling their employees that it's illegal even if it's a gift for someone who can legally own a gun.  They almost didn't sell me one when I mentioned it was a gift, and the clerk told me that was according to the ATF.  She said she would pretend she didn't hear what I said and sold it to me anyway, but insisted that they were instructed that any purchase for anyone else is considered a straw purchase.  It figures when you're talking about Walmart.  Academy is just as bad.  They ran an instant background check on a friend of mine even after he presented his CCL.  He refused to buy the gun and walked out.

Just realize who it is that's helping you in most stores like that.  Someone making close to minimum wage who has been given information from someone else who doesn't know.  There is no Federal law against buying and giving a gun as a gift except to people who can't legally possess firearms.  Buying a gun for someone as a gift is different than buying a gun for someone because they can't buy it themselves.  The ATF even says buying guns and giving as gifts to minors is legal.

The problem is following various state and local laws.  I would imagine gifting a gun is harder in CA, NY, NJ, Chicago, etc.  There are also issues if the person lives in a different state than the state you reside in.  Then you have to follow the state laws concerning transfer of ownership across state lines.

[kodiakisland]

That's your friend's fault.  They must run a check on everyone at the time of the purchase...regardless of his having his CCL.  The CCL does not exempt anyone from being checked when purchasing a firearm.

You do not have to do a NICS check if you have a CCL.  The store can do one anyway and be overly cautious, but it is not required.  It's been that way for a long time in AR.

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/permanent-brady-permit-chart

[rickm1976]

That's your friend's fault.  They must run a check on everyone at the time of the purchase...regardless of his having his CCL.  The CCL does not exempt anyone from being checked when purchasing a firearm.

Maybe in other states, but not in Arkansas, and this Academy was in Ft. Smith.  Look it up.

[rickm1976]

We got tons of ill informed folks working Gun Counters at Academy , Walmart, Bass Pro and Gander Mountain and don't forget Dicks.  I had to stop a sells guy from selling the wrong High Power Rifle ammo to a lady.  30-06 wont take 300 win mag.

Roger that.  I usually buy from Bud's, but in this case, Walmart was the only place I could find what I wanted.  I bought one rifle from Academy, and that will be the last time for them.  It took almost two hours for them to go through their procedure.

[Wayne Watson]

You do not have to do a NICS check if you have a CCL.  The store can do one anyway and be overly cautious, but it is not required.  It's been that way for a long time in AR.

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/permanent-brady-permit-chart

Interesting.  Thanks for the link.  Learn something everyday.

[cbhawg03]

Academy in Fort Smith would let you go ahead and buy the gun if you could provide something like an electric or water bill with your current address, insurance with correct address or car registration with correct address.

They asked if the address was correct

[cbhawg03]

That's your friend's fault.  They must run a check on everyone at the time of the purchase...regardless of his having his CCL.  The CCL does not exempt anyone from being checked when purchasing a firearm.

It has been 2.5 years or so, but I never seen a background check done on a person with a CCL from that state. For instance, a guy from Arkansas with a CCL walks into Academy and buys a gun, there is no need for a background check to be called in.

[DeltaBoy]

In Texas they just call the number give them my CCW ID Number and by the time I get my part of the paper work filled out we are done.  15 minutes tops.

[Grizzlyfan]

The Supreme Court decision on Monday provided for stricter enforcement of straw purchases.  They ruled that a guy who was legal to purchase a gun could not buy a gun for another guy (his uncle) who was also legal to purchase and own the gun.

I'm still not sure what effect this decision has on purchasing a gun for your minor children or for purchasing a gun to be given as a gift.  Although I would think that if a gun stays within one household it would be practically impossible to prove different ownership.

[Grizzlyfan]

But once again this just proves that most gun laws inconvenience, or make criminals out of, otherwise law abiding folks.  And do nothing to stop the already illegal use of guns.