With Moses coming back, let's check expectation levels...

[Deep Shoat]

I think we have a couple of different approaches going on with these "predictions".

Some are going to look at it in terms of just this team vs the schedule(when we get it) and how these players look when together based on reports or through early practices and scrimmages(Hoops' approach).

Others are going to come at this as it is season 6 for Anderson and it is time he starts accomplishing something and do so consistently.  No more "ifs" or qualifications or "wait till".  This is completely his team built with his chosen JC players and one of our program's better big men ever.  Fair to this current team?  Probably not. 

And stop with the Izzo and Coach K comments.  Izzo has been brought up at least twice in the last several hours.  If Coach A in his 21st season at Arkansas loses in the first NCAAT game after going to 7 F4's and winning a NC in his first 20, he will be in for a free pass and judged differently than if this current team ends up as a high seed and loses in the first game.  Yes, it happens to all programs.  But some of those coaches have actually accomplished something too.  Not promises, what if's, wait till next year or when these recruits arrive,...

This isn't a "prediction" thread.  This is an expectation thread.  Those shouldn't change based on schedule, should they?

[Atlhogfan1]

This isn't a "prediction" thread.  This is an expectation thread.  Those shouldn't change based on schedule, should they?

People are going to take different approaches to this.

For an individual season, perhaps.  Although with this staff's scheduling m.o. and what the SEC is, it likely won't change drastically season to season. 

You are asking fans to put their program expectations out there even if just voting anonymously in your poll.  For ex, my expectation is for the teams to actually start accomplishing something and do so consistently.  And some of it may not end up being completely fair to the current players/team but the goodwill was unfortunately burned up for them by the last 5 seasons.  This is season 1 for many of them. 

[azhog10]

There are only 7 power conferences if you include the A10.

I would say 8. Your power 5 and then A10, Big East, and AAC.

[hogsanity]

This isn't a "prediction" thread.  This is an expectation thread.  Those shouldn't change based on schedule, should they?

Well the schedule, especially the ooc schedule, most definitely could change the expectations. A ridiculously soft ooc ( which we wont have because we know they are playing Mn and Texas ) would pad expectations for wins, but not help at all come March. Conversely a really hard ooc schedule could cost them enough wins to force them to have to go 10-8 or better in league play.

[jry04]

then elite eight or bust

Silly...

[Kevin]

Silly...

ok how about this: I just hope we make the tournament

[King Kong]

I didn't take the comment about Izzo and Coack K going out in the first round as them getting a "pass". It was more about how in the tourney stuff happens, and really good teams get beat out early. The final 16 aren't necessarily the best 16, but more about matchups and the magic of march biting you in the butt.

This is actually what I mean with my post about Izzo and Coach K. My point was and remains better coaches with better players and teams than what we will have next year didn't make it out of the first round.

To say Sweet 16 is end all be all isn't really logical.

I also followed that statement up with MA needs to start making the NCAAt year in and year out. Which he does to keep his job

[Atlhogfan1]

This is actually what I mean with my post about Izzo and Coach K. My point was and remains better coaches with better players and teams than what we will have next year didn't make it out of the first round.

To say Sweet 16 is end all be all isn't really logical.

I also followed that statement up with MA needs to start making the NCAAt year in and year out. Which he does to keep his job

Yes making it consistently is a next step.  At what point does he actually have to start accomplishing something once there?  In 5 of his 7 NCAAT's, he has won at least a game.  5 times he has won as a lower seed in NCAAT games:  2 wins as a 9 seed at UAB, 1 as an 11 seed at UAB, 1 as a 3 seed at Mizzou and 1 as a 10 seed at Mizzou.  When do we set some expectations for him at Arkansas for winning in NCAAT? 

[razoredge178]

Actually it's harder to do in the worst Power 5 conference.

Because you have to play 18 conference games against those opponents that bring your RPI down even when you win.

RPI doesn't matter when you have a 25+ win season in the big 5. 14+ of those should come in a terribly weak conference.

[King Kong]

RPI doesn't matter when you have a 25+ win season in the big 5. 14+ of those should come in a terribly weak conference.

RPI and SOS always matter. Even if you choose not to believe it

[King Kong]

When do we set some expectations for him at Arkansas for winning in NCAAT?

If/when he starts making the NCAAt consistently those things will go hand and hand IMO. If he makes the NCAAt the next 2 seasons and goes out in the first round both times his seat maybe just as hot as it is right now.

[azhog10]

Yes making it consistently is a next step.  At what point does he actually have to start accomplishing something once there?  In 5 of his 7 NCAAT's, he has won at least a game.  5 times he has won as a lower seed in NCAAT games:  2 wins as a 9 seed at UAB, 1 as an 11 seed at UAB, 1 as a 3 seed at Mizzou and 1 as a 10 seed at Mizzou.  When do we set some expectations for him at Arkansas for winning in NCAAT?

When we are finally getting in.....I think that would be a start. Jeff Long made it clear getting to the NCAAT is the bar for him right now. It would be completely realistic for Jeff Long at some point to raise that bar, or fire him if he never meets it.

[Atlhogfan1]

When we are finally getting in.....I think that would be a start. Jeff Long made it clear getting to the NCAAT is the bar for him right now. It would be completely realistic for Jeff Long at some point to raise that bar, or fire him if he never meets it.

It is the immediate minimum bar.  Key word is minimum.  I agree it is a starting point. 

[majp51]

This is actually what I mean with my post about Izzo and Coach K. My point was and remains better coaches with better players and teams than what we will have next year didn't make it out of the first round.

And this is what infuriates a lot of the critics of the program, virus the haters. If Arkansas Is a top 4 seed and runs into one of those underrated buzzes that plenty have run into , then I expect they will still say good season with bad luck at the end. Yet instead what you are implying by your statement is that we should consider any NCAAT appearance proof that CMA has turned things around.

Honestly given the only choices the OP provide I said at least a Sweet Sixtten, but the truth is there is no clear cut answer. I mean let's presume the JUCO's are as good as advertised, and instantly gel at D1 level and with the team. Arkansas steamrolls their OOC and Early SEC schedule, and then Kingsley and pick a JUCO both suffer season ending injuries. In that case I believe that CMA is turning the program around, and ran into a worst case scenario, and so even just being on the bubble ends up being an accomplishment.

On the flip side if the team is healthy and Arkansas only manages a season like Vandy(2015) should be an automatic punt, even though the team did make the NCAA.

To say Sweet 16 is end all be all isn't really logical.

In a vacuum, sure it is logical. And that is what the OP asked, a vacuum with only the talent coming in and expectations based on that. After all, everyone on the CMA Bandwagon is telling us that as of right now this team is better than any other CMA team in terms of talent, and he already made it to the round of 32 once with lesser talent (again per the CMA supporters). It is only when you start adding conditions that the idea of a sweet sixteen or bust become illogical. 

I also followed that statement up with MA needs to start making the NCAAt year in and year out. Which he does to keep his job

So does that mean, barring the injury scenario above, that you would say No Tourney in Year 6 means no contract for year 7?

[azhog10]

So does that mean, barring the injury scenario above, that you would say No Tourney in Year 6 means no contract for year 7?

I would say yes. No tourney then no year 7.

[King Kong]

To respond to MAJP51

1.Did not offer making the NCAAt as proof MA has turned this around. Making the NCAA would be meeting expectations for next season. If we get in and get knocked out early it's not as sign that MA should be fired after next season.

2. This team will not be a preseason top 25 teams, heck it may not is some peoples Top 40. To say this Sweet 16 or Bust isn't logical not even in your vacuum. (For the record I think Portis/Qualls team that went to the round of 32 was more talented)

3. Yes, if I was the AD and MA didn't make the NCAA tourney this season no matter what the reasoning he would be gone. And I consider myself an MA supporter.

[Deep Shoat]

To respond to MAJP51

1.Did not offer making the NCAAt as proof MA has turned this around. Making the NCAA would be meeting expectations for next season. If we get in and get knocked out early it's not as sign that MA should be fired after next season.

2. This team will not be a preseason top 25 teams, heck it may not is some peoples Top 40. To say this Sweet 16 or Bust isn't logical not even in your vacuum. (For the record I think Portis/Qualls team that went to the round of 32 was more talented)

3. Yes, if I was the AD and MA didn't make the NCAA tourney this season no matter what the reasoning he would be gone. And I consider myself an MA supporter.

The only point you are making I just completely disagree with is that where we are ranked to begin the season should limit expectations.  I don't give a fat rat's arse where we are ranked pre season.  I barely care where we are ranked during the season.  Only because it is an indicator of seeding for the NCAAT.  But I care a lot about where we are ranked AFTER the season.  And by season, I mean the NCAAT.

[majp51]

To respond to MAJP51

1.Did not offer making the NCAAt as proof MA has turned this around. Making the NCAA would be meeting expectations for next season. If we get in and get knocked out early it's not as sign that MA should be fired after next season.

Don't want to get too deep into splitting hairs , but when you use hyperbole (like ultimately comparing the Razorback program to the current Blue Devil or Spartan Program) that implies you believe a far lesser standard is required. My apologies for inferring what was not implied after all.

Honestly I could imagine certain scenarios that would have me hoping for CMA's exit from the UofA that even include an NCAA Tourney, for example start out blazing hot , fold near the end of the season, Finish 4th in the SEC after being in 2nd for the most of the season and then sort of backing into the NCAA's, followed by an early exit.

2. This team will not be a preseason top 25 teams, heck it may not is some peoples Top 40. To say this Sweet 16 or Bust isn't logical not even in your vacuum. (For the record I think Portis/Qualls team that went to the round of 32 was more talented)

See though, you inferred differently what I inferred as the premise (ala this team will be better and more talented than Year 4 of the CMA experiment) That is the danger of vacuum pools. We all bring our own presuppositions to the table. For the record I would say that this team has the potential to be more talented, but since it all hinges on 3 twenty something first year players(who officially all come in as juniors)  , they may be one of his worst teams too.

3. Yes, if I was the AD and MA didn't make the NCAA tourney this season no matter what the reasoning he would be gone. And I consider myself an MA supporter.

There is irony, I would certain consider myself at this stage critical of CMA's capability of turning Arkansas around, but I could imagine a couple of scenarios where I would see enough this next season to think he should be retained even if the team did not make the postseason.

[3kgthog]

What I expect and what I require are two different things. I expect an NIT team, but I require one win in the NCAAT to get back on the Mike bandwagon. Anything less and we've got to cut our losses and try again.

[hog golf]

Elite 108, Sweet 216 at a minimum.
I have no expectations and would like to be wrong. however, I need to see it. I will avoid any and all kool-aid like it's poison. I just need to see the Hogs not getting punked.

[razoredge178]

What I expect and what I require are two different things. I expect an NIT team, but I require one win in the NCAAT to get back on the Mike bandwagon. Anything less and we've got to cut our losses and try again.

I don't get the NCAAT/NIT/1 win in NCAAT stuff. What about if 1/2 the team that goes and wins 1 game in the NCAAT declares for the draft two months later?

Is a victory in the NCAAT but a dumpster outlook for 2017 enough to keep a 6 year coach around? I doubt it.

Its time for the CMA program to start showing itself. In my mind that's 14+ conference wins year in, year out, and NCAAT bids 3/4 years.

[TheRazorback500]

My expectations haven't changed, I just feel a little better about the upcoming season with Moses coming back. CMA has got to at least make the dance; hopefully we can win our opening round game. Any thing else depends on the draw. The NCAA didn't do us any favors the last time. I think we'll be good. Team chemistry will be critical.

:razorback:

[nwahogfan1]

Well the schedule, especially the ooc schedule, most definitely could change the expectations. A ridiculously soft ooc ( which we wont have because we know they are playing Mn and Texas ) would pad expectations for wins, but not help at all come March. Conversely a really hard ooc schedule could cost them enough wins to force them to have to go 10-8 or better in league play.

I have to disagree with you on this one only because this year is a Mike Anderson hand picked junior/senior dominated class and with our incoming JUCO kids thinking they are one and done then we might be losing 80/90% of our offensive production after this year.  So this year better be a good one.  If our expectations for this year is not really high then we are saying to Mike Anderson that his self picked team and his program stinks because this is all on him.   

[psooie]

How can anybody not say NCAA next year or bust? I would say NCAA or bust for the rest of MA coaching tenure at Arkansas.

[FineAsSwine]

Elite 108, Sweet 216 at a minimum.
I have no expectations and would like to be wrong. however, I need to see it. I will avoid any and all kool-aid like it's poison. I just need to see the Hogs not getting punked.

typo or sarcasm?

[hogsanity]

I have to disagree with you on this one only because this year is a Mike Anderson hand picked junior/senior dominated class and with our incoming JUCO kids thinking they are one and done then we might be losing 80/90% of our offensive production after this year.  So this year better be a good one.  If our expectations for this year is not really high then we are saying to Mike Anderson that his self picked team and his program stinks because this is all on him.   

Wasn't what I was trying to say. I was merely referencing expectations of won/loss record based on the schedule. I think they are a 20-22 win team. If the ooc schedule is really weak that would go up to 23-25, but my season expectation would be the same, sweet 16 or its pretty much a bust.

[cosmodrum]

How can anybody not say NCAA next year or bust? I would say NCAA or bust for the rest of MA coaching tenure at Arkansas.

The expectation should always be NCAAT appearance with real opportunity to get to Sweet 16+, with the understanding that every program has down years and 1/5-1/7 years we don't make the NCAAT.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

We have not made the second weekend of the NCAA in over 20 years. That streak needs to stop this season.  My hope is that we are good enough to get sent to Tulsa so we have a big home crowd advantage.

[GuvHog]

The expectation should always be NCAAT appearance with real opportunity to get to Sweet 16+, with the understanding that every program has down years and 1/5-1/7 years we don't make the NCAAT.

Even in those down years you mentioned when the Hogs don't make the NCAA Tournament they should easily make the NIT. Sitting at Home after the SEC Tournament is NEVER acceptable.

[FineAsSwine]

We have not made the second weekend of the NCAA in over 20 years. That streak needs to stop this season.  My hope is that we are good enough to get sent to Tulsa so we have a big home crowd advantage.

Would be lovely to make a nice run. This would go a long way in helping Scotty in recruiting. Need to hit some home runs there.

[King Kong]

Don't want to get too deep into splitting hairs , but when you use hyperbole (like ultimately comparing the Razorback program to the current Blue Devil or Spartan Program) that implies you believe a far lesser standard is required. My apologies for inferring what was not implied after all.

My only point was and remains better coaches with more talented teams than what we will have next year have been knocked out of the NCAAt. It's a crap shoot things happen. I don't believe this is an extreme exaggeration. It's fact.

See though, you inferred differently what I inferred as the premise (ala this team will be better and more talented than Year 4 of the CMA experiment) That is the danger of vacuum pools. We all bring our own presuppositions to the table. For the record I would say that this team has the potential to be more talented, but since it all hinges on 3 twenty something first year players(who officially all come in as juniors)  , they may be one of his worst teams too.

The reason I mention Preseason ranking by others outside of Hogville was to point out other "experts" don't believe this team is that talented. To take out the what you believe vs what I believe this teams should or can be. Hopefully, this team next year can prove them wrong. I didn't believe year 3 after losing BJ and Marshawn would be any good and that team ended up being a bubble team.

There is irony, I would certain consider myself at this stage critical of CMA's capability of turning Arkansas around, but I could imagine a couple of scenarios where I would see enough this next season to think he should be retained even if the team did not make the postseason.

Jeff Long along may agree with you and MA has a proven track record at UAB and Mizz. But for me 1 out of 6 isn't enough to stay.

[HoopS]

I just think you have to be careful about putting exact numbers or rounds on expectations "or else".

What if we get to the round of 32 but lose to a underseeded Arizona squad. But we will be returning a large bit of the roster and key contributors, and adding Gafford to replace Moses. Younger guys were looking good. We just lost to a really good team. But clearly there is development and chemistry.

But we demanded Sweet 16 or fired.

Do you stop and think how ridiculous we would look in that scenario if we followed what some demand? And maybe even more important, we then open the roster up for more turnover and/or having to start over right when we looked to be making headway.

That's why I hesitate saying exactly what needs to happen. I will go as far to say I expect an NCAAT appearance and then I HOPE for success once we are there but will also need to see the bracket and then see how we represent ourselves.

It is easy to be black and white with this sort of stuff but there's always a good chance that it ends up being a bit grayish, one side or the other.

[hogsanity]

I just think you have to be careful about putting exact numbers or rounds on expectations "or else".

What if we get to the round of 32 but lose to a underseeded Arizona squad. But we will be returning a large bit of the roster and key contributors, and adding Gafford to replace Moses. Younger guys were looking good. We just lost to a really good team. But clearly there is development and chemistry.

But we demanded Sweet 16 or fired.

Do you stop and think how ridiculous we would look in that scenario if we followed what some demand? And maybe even more important, we then open the roster up for more turnover and/or having to start over right when we looked to be making headway.

That's why I hesitate saying exactly what needs to happen. I will go as far to say I expect an NCAAT appearance and then I HOPE for success once we are there but will also need to see the bracket and then see how we represent ourselves.

It is easy to be black and white with this sort of stuff but there's always a good chance that it ends up being a bit grayish, one side or the other.

Look, we know you would keep Mike in perpetuity. All we have heard now for 2 months is how this is Mike's most talented group, and now that the Sr big man is staying, that has to equate to something more than any of other Mike's teams here have accomplished. They made the round of 32 in 14/15, so the next step up is the sweet 16.

Have you stopped to think how ridiculous we have looked three of the last 5 season sitting at home in March? How would firing a coach after 6 seasons look because he did not meet the expectations the school had when he was hired? Schools do that all the time, no one would bat an eye at it outside of Mike's fan club.

And I do not think the school has set any specific expectations on him, this thread asked about us, as fans, and what we expect now that Moses is staying.

What you do though is set up an endless circle of keeping Mike, always based on the next season and who we may or may not get if he leaves. Under that logic no one would ever fire a coach based on performance because the next year MIGHT be the year it finally all comes together.

[HoopS]

That's why we can't even respond to each other. You don't pay attention.

I said I expect an NCAAT appearance.

And you are outside of your mind if you think I'm someone who asked for Mike. I asked for Marshall. I'm not a nostalgia freak I hear talked about around here. 

We hired him. He's our coach so he gets my support. He hasn't deserved to be fired. Yet. But miss the NCAAT and that all changes with me. I can't be clearer. Please reread that before hitting "reply".

What I also said was that we need to see how the team represented itself. What that means is if we are a wreck, even though we made the tournament, we may well need to move on then as well even though we made the field.

I approach these things as if I were the one who has to actually push the button. I speak in complete honesty. I wish more folks would slow down and understand that. I'm not speaking in hyperbole. I'm speaking as a coach who's had to actually look into these things before. Once it's done it's done. I look at things thoroughly.

[azhog10]

That's why we can't even respond to each other. You don't pay attention.

I said I expect an NCAAT appearance.

And you are outside of your mind if you think I'm someone who asked for Mike. I asked for Marshall. I'm not a nostalgia freak I hear talked about around here. 

We hired him. He's our coach so he gets my support. He hasn't deserved to be fired. Yet. But miss the NCAAT and that all changes with me. I can't be clearer. Please reread that before hitting "reply".

What I also said was that we need to see how the team represented itself. What that means is if we are a wreck, even though we made the tournament, we may well need to move on then as well even though we made the field.

I approach these things as if I were the one who has to actually push the button. I speak in complete honesty. I wish more folks would slow down and understand that. I'm not speaking in hyperbole. I'm speaking as a coach who's had to actually look into these things before. Once it's done it's done. I look at things thoroughly.

Common sense and rationale is not accepted here.

[hogsanity]

Common sense and rationale is not accepted here.

Why is it common sense to simply expect a ncaat appearance if this is truly Mike's most talented team of the 6 he has put on the floor as Hog HC? Wouldn't common sense dictate, if that is true, that this team should be expected to do more than any of his other teams have here?

[Atlhogfan1]

I get what Hoops is saying.  Advancing in the NCAAT depends on some factors including sometimes luck.  And we don't know what the depth of competition will be next season although college basketball doesn't appear to be getting better. 

I also see sanity's point too.  It isn't irrational.  Maybe a little unfair to the current team.  Most players weren't here during the first 5 seasons.  But some fans are expecting/demanding for the program to start actually accomplishing something.  And the NCAAT is how teams are judged.  Fairly or not. 

This doesn't take into account Long's apparent minimum standard going forward of making the NCAAT.

[azhog10]

Why is it common sense to simply expect a ncaat appearance if this is truly Mike's most talented team of the 6 he has put on the floor as Hog HC? Wouldn't common sense dictate, if that is true, that this team should be expected to do more than any of his other teams have here?

I've yet to see someone say that they do not expect, or it is irrational to expect an NCAAT. Haven't seen one person say that. What is irrational is saying we are a top 16 team or we need to be in the sweet 16 or CMA needs to be fired. Just because someone thinks this is the deepest hogs team in 20 plus years doesn't mean we should finish better than any of those teams. The NCAAT needs to be a consistent goal for the program. But each year how far you go in the tourney depends on a lot of factors that you just can't anticipate till selection sunday.

[rude1]

Why is it common sense to simply expect a ncaat appearance if this is truly Mike's most talented team of the 6 he has put on the floor as Hog HC? Wouldn't common sense dictate, if that is true, that this team should be expected to do more than any of his other teams have here?

Because common sense also tells most that even the most talented team doesn't always translate into better results in the NCAA tourney. If this team is more talented it will show itself over the course of a season, trying to use the NCAA tourney advancement as a sole measuring stick is flawed at best. What if the team barely gets into the tourney, gets some favorable draws and goes to the sweet 16, does this prove they are a better team than the Portis led team?

[HogBreath]

I get what Hoops is saying.  Advancing in the NCAAT depends on some factors including sometimes luck.  And we don't know what the depth of competition will be next season although college basketball doesn't appear to be getting better. 

I also see sanity's point too.  It isn't irrational.  Maybe a little unfair to the current team.  Most players weren't here during the first 5 seasons.  But some fans are expecting/demanding for the program to start actually accomplishing something.  And the NCAAT is how teams are judged.  Fairly or not. 

This doesn't take into account Long's apparent minimum standard going forward of making the NCAAT.

Exactly, both of them have some good points in their discussion, I think the minimum for next season is to make the dance, or we'll be looking for a new coach soon there after.

Moses & Dusty we know, they'll be solid, I can't see how Barford won't be a big time contributor, he's got it, maybe even really got it.  Ross would be a great addition.  Thompson showed some flashes of coming around last season, Beard should be better, maybe even a lot better.  The other new guys may all be ready to get it, but at least 2-3 of them should be up to the task.

This team could be really good, but anything above just making the dance is a little too much.

[HoopS]

I agree with the minimum.  We will just have to see how the bracket lays out etc.

[hogsanity]

I've yet to see someone say that they do not expect, or it is irrational to expect an NCAAT. Haven't seen one person say that. What is irrational is saying we are a top 16 team or we need to be in the sweet 16 or CMA needs to be fired. Just because someone thinks this is the deepest hogs team in 20 plus years doesn't mean we should finish better than any of those teams. The NCAAT needs to be a consistent goal for the program. But each year how far you go in the tourney depends on a lot of factors that you just can't anticipate till selection sunday.

Again, the sweet 16 is MY expectation, that was what the thread was about, FANS expectations. I have said since he was hired, Mike is here until he does not want to be, or until attendance is so poor it begins to make the basketball program run at a loss. Unless they put up another .500 season, or worse, Mike will be back. There is always going to be the dangling carrot of the next recruiting class, and the 10k or so season tickets sold give no reason to make a change.

I do find it odd though, every one here knows that the college basketball world could not care less about your conf record, or your ooc record in any way EXCEPT do they get you into the NCAAT. Some fans, Mike fans mostly though, want to try to measure success on anything BUT the ncaat, when in the reality of college basketball getting to the ncaat is all that matters. Now that may not be how people should look at college basketball, but that is how they look at it. If you are in the ncaat you must have had a good season, if not, well, you are terrible.

[azhog10]

Again, the sweet 16 is MY expectation, that was what the thread was about, FANS expectations. I have said since he was hired, Mike is here until he does not want to be, or until attendance is so poor it begins to make the basketball program run at a loss. Unless they put up another .500 season, or worse, Mike will be back. There is always going to be the dangling carrot of the next recruiting class, and the 10k or so season tickets sold give no reason to make a change.

I do find it odd though, every one here knows that the college basketball world could not care less about your conf record, or your ooc record in any way EXCEPT do they get you into the NCAAT. Some fans, Mike fans mostly though, want to try to measure success on anything BUT the ncaat, when in the reality of college basketball getting to the ncaat is all that matters. Now that may not be how people should look at college basketball, but that is how they look at it. If you are in the ncaat you must have had a good season, if not, well, you are terrible.

YOUR expectation is just that yours. The post I commented about was you saying it's not irrational to expect an NCAAT. I'm saying I've yet to see someone that said it was irrational to think that. Again, you want to ignore the notion that most, if not all, have said CMA needs to be in the NCAAT or he needs to be let go. The conference record, or record discussion came about when someone stated that Pel's records and CMA's were virtually the same. They are not, and then you and others spun that into this discussion about how both have only been to one NCAAT therefore they are the same. Also, you say people look at basketball by who makes the NCAAT, well apparently not because CMA is still here and his boss has said that things have basically went how he expected due to the state of the program when CMA took over. You and others may not like that, but apparently the man in charge, who might have a little better grasp on the situation sees it.

So you can throw out your "high expectations", which is funny bc just a couple weeks ago you mentioned how you did not expect us to do any different (or better) with Moses than without Moses. Yet now you say we are a Sweet 16 or better team........I don't think one could even measure the amount of stupid in this forum.

[hogsanity]

YOUR expectation is just that yours. The post I commented about was you saying it's not irrational to expect an NCAAT. I'm saying I've yet to see someone that said it was irrational to think that. Again, you want to ignore the notion that most, if not all, have said CMA needs to be in the NCAAT or he needs to be let go. The conference record, or record discussion came about when someone stated that Pel's records and CMA's were virtually the same. They are not, and then you and others spun that into this discussion about how both have only been to one NCAAT therefore they are the same. Also, you say people look at basketball by who makes the NCAAT, well apparently not because CMA is still here and his boss has said that things have basically went how he expected due to the state of the program when CMA took over. You and others may not like that, but apparently the man in charge, who might have a little better grasp on the situation sees it.

So you can throw out your "high expectations", which is funny bc just a couple weeks ago you mentioned how you did not expect us to do any different (or better) with Moses than without Moses. Yet now you say we are a Sweet 16 or better team........I don't think one could even measure the amount of stupid in this forum.

My expectation before was sweet 16 or bust, that is in some thread that was done before Moses even said he was checking onto the draft.

As for this team, if, as some assert, it is the most talented team Mike has assembled here, then why shouldn't we expect more than simply making the ncaat? 

[azhog10]

As for this team, if, as some assert, it is the most talented team Mike has assembled here, then why shouldn't we expect more than simply making the ncaat?

I think the "why" has already been addressed. Making the NCAAT needs to be a goal every season. I think Jeff Long has made that clear, many on here have also said the NCAAT needs to be something we are doing more than we are not. As far as how deep we go, while we may want to see a Sweet 16, Elite 8, or even better team. It really comes down to the matchups and the draw you are given. I will use Indiana and Kentucky as an example. In my mind both of those teams were, IMO, a sure fire top 16 team based on how they were playing to end the season. However they got matchedup against eachother in the second round. I don't like Kentucky, and not a Tom Crean fan, but they should not have been playing in the second round. Someone had to lose that game and I believe both of those teams were a top 16 team. So it really comes down to how the selection committee seeds the tourney. That's why I'm not a fan of saying we should, or have to make it to the second day. I feel this team should not be a "bubble" team, although depending on our OOC schedule it could happen. But regardless we need to make the NCAAT and once we are in we need to perform well. If we play our tails off and lose to a team but we played well and stuff happens that's one thing. But if we get in the NCAAT and we play awful and look like we had no business there, then as Hoops said that could mean it's time to go in a different direction.

[JayBell]

The 2014-2015 team was a 5-seed in the NCAA Tournament, finished 27-9 and lost at least 3-4 games that they should have won.  That, above anything else, is the biggest failure of Anderson's tenure.  Last year's team had no business losing at home to an 8-man Auburn team or to Mississippi State by 32 points on the road.  During Anderson's time at Arkansas, it feels like every win over a team like No. 5 Texas A&M is balanced out by an uncompetitive home loss to South Carolina.

If Anderson could just stop losing to teams Arkansas is supposed to beat, then all of a sudden this program is in great shape.  Last year's team should have finished with 18-19 wins instead of 16 and then a "rebuilding" year doesn't feel like such a failure.

THAT is what I expect to improve next season.  Stop losing so damn many winnable games.  Cut those out and next year's team should win 25 games.  I don't think you can make expectations about the NCAAT, but if you get 25 wins, then you have a chance for a good matchup and a win or two.

[azhog10]

The 2014-2015 team was a 5-seed in the NCAA Tournament, finished 27-9 and lost at least 3-4 games that they should have won.  That, above anything else, is the biggest failure of Anderson's tenure.

.If losing 3 games in a season you should have won is a failure, there's not many coaches around that aren't failures. Teams lose games they should have won all the time, that's why you lace them up and play the game. It happens in every sport on every level. They've also won games they shouldn't have, it's the nature of the game and what makes sports fun to watch and be apart of. I swear some of these comments get dumber and dumber.

Just this last season Duke lost 3-4 games that, at the time, they should have won based on their record and how the other team they were playing performed. Notre Dame, an Elite 8 team lost to Monmouth, Alabama, GT, and Florida State. Considering they made the Elite 8 those are all teams they should have beat. Also lost to Miami who didn't make it as far as them.

[JayBell]

.If losing 3 games in a season you should have won is a failure, there's not many coaches around that aren't failures. Teams lose games they should have won all the time, that's why you lace them up and play the game. It happens in every sport on every level. They've also won games they shouldn't have, it's the nature of the game and what makes sports fun to watch and be apart of. I swear some of these comments get dumber and dumber.

Just this last season Duke lost 3-4 games that, at the time, they should have won based on their record and how the other team they were playing performed. Notre Dame, an Elite 8 team lost to Monmouth, Alabama, GT, and Florida State. Considering they made the Elite 8 those are all teams they should have beat. Also lost to Miami who didn't make it as far as them.

You're grasping at straws.  I'm not talking about losing a tough contest to a game opponent.  I'm talking about Arkansas clearly being a better team and still managing to lose to a reeling 8-man Auburn team AT HOME.  No one on that list you mentioned has any loss as bad as that one or the 32-point loss to Mississippi State.

There's a difference in losing games you had a good chance to win, which is what those games were that you mentioned, and losing games you clearly should have won, which have plagued the program since Anderson took over.

Those inexcusable losses were the difference between the NIT and the NCAA Tournament in 2014.  In 2015, they were the difference between a 5-seed and being either a 4-seed or a 3-seed.  Those better seeds get better matchups and Arkansas probably wins at least another game or two without such a bad matchup like North Carolina was.

[azhog10]

You're grasping at straws.  I'm not talking about losing a tough contest to a game opponent.  I'm talking about Arkansas clearly being a better team and still managing to lose to a reeling 8-man Auburn team AT HOME.  No one on that list you mentioned has any loss as bad as that one or the 32-point loss to Mississippi State.

There's a difference in losing games you had a good chance to win, which is what those games were that you mentioned, and losing games you clearly should have won, which have plagued the program since Anderson took over.

Those inexcusable losses were the difference between the NIT and the NCAA Tournament in 2014.  In 2015, they were the difference between a 5-seed and being either a 4-seed or a 3-seed.  Those better seeds get better matchups and Arkansas probably wins at least another game or two without such a bad matchup like North Carolina was.

So an eliete 8 team shouldn't clearly beat a team that played in the NIT? What about Western Illinois beating Wisconsin, George Washington beat Virginia, or Wichita St. losing to Tulsa. That was all just this year. No doubt we had some ugly losses and the Mississippi St. was the worse for me of all of them. But you brought up the 14-15 season and now you are talking 15-16 season. Again, even teams that have a successful season lose a few games they should have won and that was the premise of my post. If we want to talk about last season, thats find. Miss. St. had a lot more talent than we did and honestly Howland should have done a much better job than what they actually did. I didn't realize we were favored to win that game at Mississippi St and if we were I know it wasn't by much at all.

[pigture perfect]

I agree with JB. When you lose to horrible teams, especially at home, and then coach speak them into being tough teams gets really old. I'm tired of the excuses that we play in a tough conference when we don't. Anyway, if we don't finish in the top 3 in the conference, we may not make it to the Big Dance. If we don't make it, we need a change.