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Refs 78 Arkansas 75.34 FT's to 10

Started by forrest city joe, January 02, 2018, 10:14:11 pm

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Hog Pharm

Quote from: AlmaHog2011 on January 02, 2018, 10:54:37 pm
Tell me another game where the disparity was this much? I actually judge on calls like Bailey going for a dunk and the guy blocks his wrist and arm and no call. Many others I might if I can find the time go back and watch the game and note all the calls the were missed or made up. Maybe not you would understand anyways. 

Minnesota game at BWA this year for one. You must not watch many games.

AlmaHog2011

Quote from: jdlew on January 02, 2018, 10:53:27 pm
Still not good enough to win these games...its easy to blame the refs..Go check the Tennessee board after our game...see what they say about the refs...or better still go every board...if the game was close..they will blame the refs...

Ok what were the free throws in that game? Was it 40-12? Close?

 

lookawayquick

Hogs are horrible at stopping dribble penetration which leads to getting the ball in the lane which leads to hacks and fouls.  Stop the dribble penetration and we will see foul totals drop dramatically. 

forrest city joe

Quote from: Hog Pharm on January 02, 2018, 10:45:50 pm
This. We were up 4 with 1:30 to play. Gotta finish.
So what!! we would have been up even more if these cheating BS refs had not given them one FT after the other to keep them in the game.you can't spin 40 FT to 12.these refs flat out cheated Arkansas out of this game.

Hog Pharm

Quote from: lookawayquick on January 02, 2018, 10:55:50 pm
Hogs are horrible at stopping dribble penetration which leads to getting the ball in the lane which leads to hacks and fouls.  Stop the dribble penetration and we will see foul totals drop dramatically. 

This x10000

Hog Pharm

Quote from: forrest city joe on January 02, 2018, 10:57:41 pm
So what!! we would have been up even more if these cheating BS refs had not given them one FT after the other to keep them in the game.you can't spin 40 FT to 12.these refs flat out cheated Arkansas out of this game.

No, it's because we can't stop dribble penetration. We always foul a lot.

N HOG

Quote from: hobhog on January 02, 2018, 10:37:51 pm
announcers didn't think so. Anderson obviously didn't. We lost at Starkville again.

Time to move on. Auburn road game looms....

The announcers?!! You mean the worst announcers in the history of college basketball - the ones who apparently are employed in the public relations department at MSU?

Those announcers?

Hihog

Mostly read....rarely post but must pound the obvious. CMA and his Hogs as usual are "mentally challenged" on the road, they held form tonight!

forrest city joe

Quote from: lookawayquick on January 02, 2018, 10:55:50 pm
Hogs are horrible at stopping dribble penetration which leads to getting the ball in the lane which leads to hacks and fouls.  Stop the dribble penetration and we will see foul totals drop dramatically. 
BULL CRAP! and you know it. these refs did not call it both ways. they gave Miss.State one BS call after the other.so just stop with your garbage!

chortle

Quote from: lookawayquick on January 02, 2018, 10:55:50 pm
Hogs are horrible at stopping dribble penetration which leads to getting the ball in the lane which leads to hacks and fouls.  Stop the dribble penetration and we will see foul totals drop dramatically.

Or when we do collapse in the lane, they kick out for wide open 3's. 

MSU shot an abysmal %age from behind the stripe, because they missed shots. It wasn't because they were well defended. They missed chip shots in the paint and were terrible from the FT line. We're lucky we didn't lose by 15-20.

BassinHawg

Quote from: forrest city joe on January 02, 2018, 11:05:36 pm
BULL CRAP! and you know it. these refs did not call it both ways. they gave Miss.State one BS call after the other.so just stop with your garbage!

Say it was the Refs, isn't it the coaches responsibility to recognize this and have a game plan for it or at least have some plays or adjustments to offset it?  Clearly CMA Does Not!
"It is what it is." has replaced "Yesssss Sirrrrr!!!!"

flippinhogmana

I actually played basketball a long time ago.  I know you get some good calls and some bad ones as a result.  I have also coached.  I know when officiating is one sided and it's partially my job to do something about it.  But stats dont lie either.  When you get a closely contested game where one squad scores seven more field goals than the other and loses because they went to the line 28 times less, then you either have a finesse team who doesn't drive or you have one-sided officiating.  Our team drives, end  of story.  its still a loss, learn from it, and dont let it happen again.
Like the erstwhile Clark Kent, my true identity is shielded.  I am an author, Nathan J. Allison is my pen name.

flippinhogmana

you still have to move on, its an L.  Just beat the crap out of them next time.  Thats all you can do about it now.
Like the erstwhile Clark Kent, my true identity is shielded.  I am an author, Nathan J. Allison is my pen name.

 

chortle

Quote from: flippinhogmana on January 02, 2018, 11:10:37 pm
I actually played basketball a long time ago.  I know you get some good calls and some bad ones as a result.  I have also coached.  I know when officiating is one sided and it's partially my job to do something about it.  But stats dont lie either.  When you get a closely contested game where one squad scores seven more field goals than the other and loses because they went to the line 28 times less, then you either have a finesse team who doesn't drive or you have one-sided officiating.  Our team drives, end  of story.  its still a loss, learn from it, and dont let it happen again.

If you coach, then you know Anderson has never and will never have a 1/2 court offense to get a basket with the game on the line.

MaconBacon

Both sides played like they still had a belly full of turkey the first half.    I will say it was unusual for MS to play so "clean" shooting 40 FT's to our 12 ?   We wouldn't jump three feet for a rebound the whole first half, which was hard to watch. We never got a consistent flow and the players just didn't look like they wanted to play tonight. I don't like this loss handed by the armpit of the SEC, but if it lights a fire under the team and MA arse in order for the next, then I guess all was not lost.

Albert Einswine

I'm diagnosing FCJ with bulimia nervosa. Dude feels like throwing up relentlessly.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

lookawayquick

FJC always blaming someone else.  I agree the officiating was poor but I also know the Hogs were up 8 with 4 minutes to play and 4 with 1:30 to play and let it slip away.  Poor D down the stretch, horrible shots and dumb basketball let MSU take this one away.  A couple of the team leaders did not do their jobs tonight.  So Joe, put away the garbage and drop the bull crap. Season is not over but it will be a long one if the Hogs continue to play inconsistently on the road.  MSU was oh so beatable.  Hogs let it slip away.

jdlew

Quote from: AlmaHog2011 on January 02, 2018, 10:55:45 pm
Ok what were the free throws in that game? Was it 40-12? Close?




Tennessee fans were screaming that they fouled out 3 players and we didn't have any foul out...Their best player fouled out on what looked like a clean block...we are better...but still not good enough...MA and the two Sr. guards will tell you there was just to much one on one down the stretch..

old_school_hawg

Quote from: forrest city joe on January 02, 2018, 10:57:41 pm
So what!! we would have been up even more if these cheating BS refs had not given them one FT after the other to keep them in the game.you can't spin 40 FT to 12.these refs flat out cheated Arkansas out of this game.
[/quote/]

The refs didn't cheat us. If we shoot free throws well, and melt clock with 1:30 left, we win. Even just holding the ball and not scoring, they are mathematically eliminated. We win. But no, we run crazy and throw things up and let them have more than their allotted 1 possession in the last 1:30. We lost on our own accord. Gotta step up and own the losses just like the victories. I hate to lose because of boneheadedness, but unfortunately, that how most teams lose. He who makes the fewest mistakes, claims victory. I hope we learn from this and get stronger. We were flat and out of sync most of the night.
"I tried being reasonable. I didn't like it."-Clint Eastwood

"Life is hard. It's harder if you're stupid." -John Wayne

BigHog396

Quote from: chortle on January 02, 2018, 10:53:06 pm
For example, there were at least a 1/2 dozen MSU travels that weren't called.

But that is SEC basketball. This isn't new.

You overcome it.
There were also at least a 1/2 dozen of our travels that weren't called.  It went both ways, all night long.  Timing sucked on the Macon call, but don't walk, and there's no call to make.

bighog2255

Typical lazy "blame the refs" post from FCJ. Not looking at the real issues that prevented us from winning last night

hogsanity

Quote from: Hog Pharm on January 02, 2018, 10:18:35 pm
Didn't know the goal was to keep the FT numbers as even as possible.

Yea, no one was complaining Sat when the Hogs shot more ft's in a close win. Well, actually TN fans were, and some here called them " whiney female dogs " for complaining about the refs.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

BigHog396

Quote from: forrest city joe on January 02, 2018, 11:05:36 pm
BULL CRAP! and you know it. these refs did not call it both ways. they gave Miss.State one BS call after the other.so just stop with your garbage!
Joe... try watching the entire game, and paying attention to how each team plays D.

Mike's teams have ALWAYS hacked, and hacked a lot, it's that simple.  You watch our guys play D, and they do it with their hands.  We are constantly slapping and hacking at the opponent.  That ALWAYS comes back to bite you on the road.  Mike's teams don't know how to play D with their feet, and never have.  It's Mike's style, and will nearly always cause FT disparities like this against teams that play fundamental D, rather than hacking all the time.

Part of the reason MSU didn't have anywhere near as many fouls called against them is because they do know how to play D with their feet, rather than their hands.  Yes, the disparity was bad, but everyone knows that's the way calls are going to go on the road, especially when we make it so easy for the refs to make those calls with the way we play D.

N HOG

Quote from: BigHog396 on January 03, 2018, 08:59:06 am
Joe... try watching the entire game, and paying attention to how each team plays D.

Mike's teams have ALWAYS hacked, and hacked a lot, it's that simple.  You watch our guys play D, and they do it with their hands.  We are constantly slapping and hacking at the opponent.  That ALWAYS comes back to bite you on the road.  Mike's teams don't know how to play D with their feet, and never have.  It's Mike's style, and will nearly always cause FT disparities like this against teams that play fundamental D, rather than hacking all the time.

Part of the reason MSU didn't have anywhere near as many fouls called against them is because they do know how to play D with their feet, rather than their hands.  Yes, the disparity was bad, but everyone knows that's the way calls are going to go on the road, especially when we make it so easy for the refs to make those calls with the way we play D.

Was the non-call on the mauling of Bailey on the dunk because the Bulldog defender had good foot position?

 

Hog Pharm

Quote from: BigHog396 on January 03, 2018, 08:59:06 am
Joe... try watching the entire game, and paying attention to how each team plays D.

Mike's teams have ALWAYS hacked, and hacked a lot, it's that simple.  You watch our guys play D, and they do it with their hands.  We are constantly slapping and hacking at the opponent.  That ALWAYS comes back to bite you on the road.  Mike's teams don't know how to play D with their feet, and never have.  It's Mike's style, and will nearly always cause FT disparities like this against teams that play fundamental D, rather than hacking all the time.

Part of the reason MSU didn't have anywhere near as many fouls called against them is because they do know how to play D with their feet, rather than their hands.  Yes, the disparity was bad, but everyone knows that's the way calls are going to go on the road, especially when we make it so easy for the refs to make those calls with the way we play D.

Exactly. It's something you have to accept with MAs teams. Some games it's worse than others. That said we still had an 8 pt lead in the second half and should have won the game.

Hog Pharm

Quote from: N HOG on January 03, 2018, 09:30:17 am
Was the non-call on the mauling of Bailey on the dunk because the Bulldog defender had good foot position?

He went straight up. Was there a little contact? Probably, but he didn't slap down like we usually do.

Triple T

Quote from: hog.goblin on January 02, 2018, 10:32:42 pm
State missed 16 FTs and 17 3-pointers and still won.  We are lucky we didn't get blown out.  But Barford was off, and if he would have acquiesced to Macon on several of those final minute drives we still would have won.

We'll win most of our home games.
We'll lose at least half of our road games.

Still NCAAT bound.
We outplayed Miss State in almost every aspect of the game. You take away the FTs from both teams and we beat them 70-54, even with Barford going cold in this game. Miss State was lucky they weren't blown out.

FineAsSwine

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on January 02, 2018, 10:23:35 pm
Corey Beck said it right on twitter... You have to earn respect! They flat out didn't get it done. Bailey played solid and Gafford was Gafford. Those senior guards should look in the mirror.

Those senior guards have played way too many minutes. The bench needs to step it up.
Hogs up! Covid down!

Danny J

Quote from: rude1 on January 02, 2018, 10:19:51 pm
Joe I know you blame refs after every win or loss, but I have to agree with you on this one. We aren't even playing all out pressure defense and yet they still shoot 40+ free throws to our 12. That's an unacceptable disparity that I blame on the coach who sat over there and tolerated that whistle time and again with no strong complaint, it's no wonder they thought nothing of tagging us with a phantom walk to close us out. CMA has to start fighting for his team if he wants them to fight to the end, get thrown out if you must, but let them know you can see what is going on out there.
Great post...starts with CMA fighting for his team and pointing out the disparity.

Kevin

points off turnovers msu 19 hogs 9
2nd chance points msu 16 hogs 9
fastbreak points msu 10 hogs 4
offensive rebounds 17

keep blaming those ref's
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

Hog Pharm

Quote from: Kevin on January 03, 2018, 09:44:36 am
points off turnovers msu 19 hogs 9
2nd chance points msu 16 hogs 9
fastbreak points msu 10 hogs 4
offensive rebounds 17

keep blaming those ref's

Our style is predicated on getting TOs. If we don't have an advantage in that area we play right into the hands of our opponents. It's happened the past two games.

hogsanity

Quote from: Triple T on January 03, 2018, 09:38:29 am
We outplayed Miss State in almost every aspect of the game. You take away the FTs from both teams and we beat them 70-54, even with Barford going cold in this game. Miss State was lucky they weren't blown out.

Outplayed them in almost every aspect?

points off turnovers msu 19 hogs 9
2nd chance points msu 16 hogs 9
fastbreak points msu 10 hogs 4
offensive rebounds 17
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

XavierZane

I keep thinking refs can't sink lower in their incompetence or scumminess, but they always find a way to show out.  When was the last time we were -28 in fta?     

razorpimp

This is Andersons crappy system at fault here

Sloppy, overly aggressive street ball will do it every time!  We will always be average to above average with mediocre Mike at the helm

razorpimp

Quote from: forrest city joe on January 02, 2018, 10:57:41 pm
So what!! we would have been up even more if these cheating BS refs had not given them one FT after the other to keep them in the game.you can't spin 40 FT to 12.these refs flat out cheated Arkansas out of this game.

You are way to biased....I was actually at the damn game and we fouled the crap out of MSU over and over and over again

Kevin

Quote from: razorpimp on January 03, 2018, 10:07:29 am
This is Andersons crappy system at fault here

Sloppy, overly aggressive street ball will do it every time!  We will always be average to above average with mediocre Mike at the helm

lookout
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

HogInThaGrove

In our previous 12 games, we averaged 20 personal fouls (26 this game, 1 off season high), and the opposing team averaged shooting 25 free throws (40 this game, season high by 3).  On averages alone, it appears that Miss St. was the recipient of some advantageous refereeing. 

However...

If we look at the Minnesota game, the totals are almost mirror images:

Against Minnesota we were:
+7 - Shot attempts
-6 - Rebounds
+13 - Assists
+1 - Turnovers
+7 Blocks
+2 - Steals

57% - Field
43% - 3pt
53% - Free Throw

While Minnesota was:

41% - Field
26% - 3pt
64% - Free throw

Against Miss. St we were

+3 - Shot attempts
Even - Rebounds
+8 - Assists
-6 Turnovers
-5 Blocks
-5 Steals


51% - Field Goals
40% - 3
41% - Free Throws

While Miss. State was:

42% - Field
19% - 3
60% - Free Throws.

To me, the bolded numbers are the biggest difference, and most of that is defensive, however, it is also quite remarkable that Miss St. had:

59 - Total Shots
21 of which were 3 pt attempts

So of the remaining 37 shots (took 1 off because Thomas fouled on 1 3pt shot) Miss. State was fouled on 19, or 51% of their 2pt shots.  (Numbers may be off by 1 or 2, can't remember if there was another foul on 3pt attempt...but they're very close)

That is literally almost unbelievable. 

Any team can overcome their terrible shooting if every other shot they take inside the 3pt line is called a shooting foul on the opposing team. 

I'm still of the opinion that defensive rebounding is our biggest deficit, but we usually overcome that with pts off turnovers and fast break points, both of which we lost last night.  That won't happen often.

Conclusion:  Hogs didn't play well.  Refs influenced the game in favor of home team. That is a bad combination.


hogsanity

Quote from: razorpimp on January 03, 2018, 10:07:29 am
This is Andersons crappy system at fault here

Sloppy, overly aggressive street ball will do it every time!  We will always be average to above average with mediocre Mike at the helm

Umm,  I am not a huge Mike fan, but even I know that post is stupid.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Hoggish1

Quote from: forrest city joe on January 02, 2018, 10:14:11 pm
What a disgrace. i watch this BS and it made me want to throw up!the refs saved Miss.State time and time again by giving them one FT after another.they kept them in the game by doing it. yet when our players drove to the basket their was no call.Mike Anderson should have gotten himself tossed out of this game. the refs in this game gave it to Miss.State.a 3 point win when you shot 34 FT to 10.the SEC should be embarrassed.what a disgrace.

True, but how 'bout we make a descent % of the meager number of FTs we did get.  Still win the game despite crapping the bed...

forrest city joe

Quote from: bighog2255 on January 03, 2018, 08:51:51 am
Typical lazy "blame the refs" post from FCJ. Not looking at the real issues that prevented us from winning last night
40 FT to 12 in favor of Miss.State speak for itself.anyone but you Anderson haters can see it. and you haters see it. you are just happy Anderson lost.but i got news for you haters.MIKE ANDERSON IS GOING TO BE HERE A LONG TIME!GET USE TO IT!

Albert Einswine

Quote from: forrest city joe on January 03, 2018, 01:22:05 pm
40 FT to 12 in favor of Miss.State speak for itself.anyone but you Anderson haters can see it. and you haters see it. you are just happy Anderson lost.but i got news for you haters.MIKE ANDERSON IS GOING TO BE HERE A LONG TIME!GET USE TO IT!



40 to 12 in favor of Miss St is a big disparity, no doubt, but still not the reason we lost.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

The OTR

I for one am glad to see Joe back to his bare knuckled brawling ways.  Thus thread was Joe at his lean and basic best. 

If any of you numbskulls and mouthbreathers think you know anything a out message boards and getting people worked up I would tell those people to read Joe's posts and then come tell me how little you know about anything.

my3boneheads

Quote from: Cale on January 02, 2018, 10:41:17 pm
Foul count:
Arkansas-26
misstake-11

FT:
Arkansas-5  of 12
Misstake-24 of 40

Rebounds:
Arkansas-39
Misstake-39

Shooting%:
Arkansas-51.6%
Misstake-42.4%

Look, I'm upset about this game too, but it's very clear to me that it took A LOT of calls in misstake's favor to win that game. They beat us in steals 3 to 8 and blocked shots also. We had 17 assists to their 9. The big difference here is how many charity stripe appearances they were given. We never even got to the bonus in either half.

So if we make 9/12 free throws we win.

razorpimp

Quote from: hogsanity on January 03, 2018, 10:33:21 am
Umm,  I am not a huge Mike fan, but even I know that post is stupid.

How is the post stupid???  Because it is the complete truth....he is mediocre

Do you honestly think we will win a national championship with Mike Anderson as coach and his "system" installed???

hogsanity

Quote from: razorpimp on January 03, 2018, 09:13:27 pm
How is the post stupid???  Because it is the complete truth....he is mediocre

Do you honestly think we will win a national championship with Mike Anderson as coach and his "system" installed???

NC? Hardly. I doubt they ever make the sweet 16.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

mykidsdad

Quote from: hogsanity on January 03, 2018, 10:05:52 pm
NC? Hardly. I doubt they ever make the sweet 16.
I will take that bet. Say $100. I am tired of your protect the refs dumb ass comments. You are a joke. Put your money where your mouth is. You can PM me and we can set everything up. I bet you suck as a ref as well.

hogsanity

Quote from: mykidsdad on January 03, 2018, 10:07:56 pm
I will take that bet. Say $100. I am tired of your protect the refs dumb ass comments. You are a joke. Put your money where your mouth is. You can PM me and we can set everything up. I bet you suck as a ref as well.

So earlier in the thread I defend Mike but you seem to miss that. Tell you what, when Mike actually takes a Hog team to the sweet 16, then I will stop doubting he can do that.

Why do you have to make it personal?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Nickle-Pig

 A coach once told us in a locker room if you are going to blame the refs or others for what happens then you might as well blame your mother for giving birth to your sorry butt. Losers have excuses.
Social sites are where cowards go to get a cup of courage.

MemphisBossHog

Quote from: rude1 on January 02, 2018, 10:19:51 pm
Joe I know you blame refs after every win or loss, but I have to agree with you on this one. We aren't even playing all out pressure defense and yet they still shoot 40+ free throws to our 12. That's an unacceptable disparity that I blame on the coach who sat over there and tolerated that whistle time and again with no strong complaint, it's no wonder they thought nothing of tagging us with a phantom walk to close us out. CMA has to start fighting for his team if he wants them to fight to the end, get thrown out if you must, but let them know you can see what is going on out there.
I will say, the above ^^^^ does make sense.  You can bet that if the refs had been doing this to Calipari and KY (yes, I know, an SEC ref would never do that to KY) but lets just say they had, Calipari would have been going nuts.  He would have had to be restrained and might have gotten tossed.  That is one thing I wish Mike would do and that is get angry a little more when he is getting screwed.  Nolan had that scowl and that booming voice.  Mike just looks perplexed and doesnt say much about the hosing he is getting. 

I know that no one said the fouls would always be equal but MSU is known as a defensive team, so they get up on you and they put their hands on you.  They had been giving up only 69 pts per game.  And then in our game amazingly they simply didnt foul???  Just doesnt add up.

I will say that Mike has got to get these guys to play smarter during crunch time and not try fancy passes and the like down the stretch.  They have got to be more disciplined to win on the road.  That game was completely winnable even with the foul disparity as ARK led 75-72 with 1:38 left but never scored again and gave up a 3 to tie, a 2 and then, what else but a FT to lose 78-75.  The Hogs were getting jobbed on the road and STILL had the lead with 1:38 left, but empty possession after empty possession kills you and that is where Mike has got to get the team to do better.

hogsanity

Quote from: MemphisBossHog on January 04, 2018, 10:44:36 am


I know that no one said the fouls would always be equal but MSU is known as a defensive team, so they get up on you and they put their hands on you.  They had been giving up only 69 pts per game.  And then in our game amazingly they simply didnt foul???  Just doesnt add up.


MSU was only averaging like 14 pf per game. IIRC they are called for fewer fouls per game than any other team in the sec.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE