What will CBB's legacy be ?

[vbgonz46]

IMO HDN was an average 6-7 win coach. As many down years as good years. CBP was an average 8-9 win coach, with less down years and maybe as many SECCG's as HDN.  What will CBBs legacy be?

[Doug]

[chitwnhog]

I'm with Doug. Oh n this is Hogville and not having Frito Pie as an option makes this whole tread ridiculous.

[go hogues]

Mainly, he just needs to STAY PUT. We have had a terrible streak of not only coaching turnover but silly, borderline unbelievable drama to go with it. We are just entering a phase of what feels like stability for the first time in probably 12/13 years.
If he can provide stability, to go along with the good coaching and player development, we should be in the top 4 of the SECW every year with a chance to break into the SECCG every 4-6 years.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

I'm with Doug. Oh n this is Hogville and not having Frito Pie as an option makes this whole tread ridiculous.

Dang.  I would've chosen Frito Pie.

[jvanhorn]

I voted but the truth is it is way to early to make an educated guess.  I would say that he is already the best recruiting coach we have ever had, and recruits are what win games.  He has put together a excellent coaching staff-- and he is holding everybody accountable, so the signs are good but I don't think you get into the Hall of Fame after just two or three years.  You actualy have to produce a body of work and accomplishments over a long period of time.

Do I think it is very likely he could turn out to be the best football coach Arkansas has ever had?  Sure.  But potential is just that until you fulfill it.

[Jeff "hogfanintx" Anderson]

No clue.

[ChitownHawg]

IMO HDN was an average 6-7 win coach. As many down years as good years. CBP was an average 8-9 win coach.  With less down years and as many SECCgs as HDN.  What will CBBs legacy be?

CBP had us in an SEC championship game? Plus it is hard to compare since both CBP and CBB have been here fewer years than Nutt. But it is the off season. 

[Boardon Hamsay]

I'm with Doug. Oh n this is Hogville and not having Frito Pie as an option makes this whole tread ridiculous.

Troof.

Dang.  I wouldnt've chosen Frito Pie.

Bant. And reported to Darrell Royal's Floating Flaming Fulminating Spectral Head.

[jgphillips3]

His legacy will be fundamentally sound football and teams that will knock you D@$# in the dirt win or lose.  When the stars align, as they do once or twice a decade, he'll have a shot at the brass ring.  It's way too soon to know if he can get over the hump but even if a team beats us, they will know they played a team of men and they will feel it for a week. 

[LRrazorback]

HDN was a 7-8 win coach. Won 75 games in 10 years.  Majority of conf wins came vs 3 teams (MS, MS St., and USC). I think CBB will be similar to HDN, maybe a tad better, 8 wins/season.  Hope I'm wrong

[Peter Porker]

IMO HDN was an average 6-7 win coach. As many down years as good years. CBP was an average 8-9 win coach.  With less down years and as many SECCgs as HDN.  What will CBBs legacy be?

HDN and CBP had about the same record when you take into account much of Nutt's tenure we played 11 games as opposed to 12 game seasons under Petrino.

Bielema is facing stiffer competition with the addition of an additional West opponent, but still having to play a power 5 nonconference team each year. with that said I still believe he will be better than both and will coach us to our first SEC Championship.

[Peter Porker]

HDN was a 7-8 win coach. Won 75 games in 10 years.  Majority of conf wins came vs 3 teams (MS, MS St., and USC). I think CBB will be similar to HDN, maybe a tad better, 8 wins/season.  Hope I'm wrong

Which is similar to Petrino and the majority of his conference wins. In fact, he only beat 3 SEC teams with winning conference records and that was LSU once and South Carolina twice.

[BearsBisonsBoars]

HDN was a 7-8 win coach. Won 75 games in 10 years.  Majority of conf wins came vs 3 teams (MS, MS St., and USC). I think CBB will be similar to HDN, maybe a tad better, 8 wins/season.  Hope I'm wrong

Frankly, I think you will be.

We've never seen what a complete and well rounded staff can do at Arkansas in the SEC. HDN and CBP both had glaring weaknesses even if they were strong in other areas.

(I know Petrino did well while he was here. But I don't think his style is sustainable in the SEC. I think he would have flared out and been fired after year 6 or so.)

CBB seems to be putting together a complete package. Maybe there are no geniuses like Saban or Petrino or Freeze (Defense, Offense, Recruiting), but there are no areas where we seem to be deficient - assuming Enos is the quality hire most of us believe him to be.

To be honest, assuming Enos pans out, I believe that if this staff can't get it done here, we may need to face the fact that Arkansas currently doesn't have what it takes to be a big time program.

Now before you hit the smite button on that last sentence, understand that I believe that we are a good enough program to be nationally competitive consistently and that this staff will prove it.

[rzrbaxfan]

You talk of legacy, but only discuss win totals.  To me, legacy is much more than that.

Nutt's legacy was that of a mediocre coach that had control issues, especially on offense.  He was a pretty stubborn man who wanted to do things his way, even at the expense of the W-L ratio.

BP's legacy was that of a coach that won via a high powered O and a bend-but-don't-break D.  Who knows if his equation would work long term, because the biggest element of his legacy is that he can't stay in one place too long without crapping in his bed.

Who knows what BB's legacy will be.  I hope it's a mix of the better qualities of the two previous coaches (long term like Nutt, committed to win like BP), with his own touches that the last two coaches lacked (balanced O, great D, no off field drama).

[Inhogswetrust]

He's only been here two years and someone already is wondering about his "legacy". Good grief.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

This is a good start.

[rzrbaxfan]

This is a good start.

this helps too...

[jrulz83]

Invalid pole, it's missing a very important option.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

this helps too...

Concur

[Vantage 8 dude]

I truly hope that his ultimate legacy has yet to be written. Only three years into his term as HC we can all see major changes and improvements in the mess he inherited from CBP's inglorious departure and JLS's total disastrous year. One thing, however, that's already VERY obvious is Bret's reliance and insistence on high quality kids who're on The Hill not only to play football, but to go after and attain a degree. The close relationship he has with both his staff and kids is also a legacy that's clearly been formed and doubtless will continue to grow. As the old saying goes: "The best is yet to come" IMHO.

[Inhogswetrust]

Invalid pole, it's missing a very important option.

That's what she said...........................

[HogWall Jackson]

So far,he's a man that has tried to do the right things. He appears to be going in the right direction. Stay tuned.

[Nashville Fan]

I voted for hottest wife ever

[HappyHogFan]

Hopefully we have another 20 years, at least, before we discuss Coach's legacy here.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

I think it's impossible to predict his legacy, either in the near future or the distant future.

I remember when Kevin Sumlin finished his first season at A&M. The predictions were boundless. He was going to supplant UT as the premier program in Texas, he was going to win multiple SEC championships, his offense would revolutionize the game, etc. But he's done worse than I think everyone expected. His teams have gotten worse every year. He seems to have control issues...his QB breaks the A&M single game record in the season opener then gets benched and transfers by the end of the season.

I'm just saying that you can't define a coach's legacy until his career is done. People still argue about coach's legacies after the coaches are dead.

But if we must participate in this frivolous exercise, I would say that Coach B is going to get us consistent 7-9 win regular seasons with an SECCG appearance every 5 or so years. Might even win one while he's here. I just want a sustained period of success...no more of these 10-11 win seasons one year with a 4-5 win season the next. I think that's what Long was thinking when he hired Bielema.

[twistitup]

What about legacy of fp?

[bigbadhog]

Similar to HDN without the SECCG appearances...

[Peter Porker]

Similar to HDN without the SECCG appearances...

Sounds just like Petrino.

[bigbadhog]

Sounds just like Petrino.

Yeah, half of HDN's seasons on The Hill were 10 or 11 wins seasons with BCS bowls and top five finishes just like BP...

[Jek Tono Porkins]

Yeah, half of HDN's seasons on The Hill were 10 or 11 wins seasons with BCS bowls and top five finishes just like BP...

Half of Petrino's seasons were not top 5 finishes. He had one top 5 finish. That was also his one top ten finish. The 2010 team ended the season #12. Houston's 2006 team ended the season #15.

Look, Petrino showed what could happen at Arkansas with a coach that wasn't a complete and utter idiot. It's not like he's some diabolical genius that did something nobody else will ever do here. If Nutt had been not a complete and total idiot, his 1998, 2002, 2006, and 2007 teams all could have been top ten teams. The talent was definitely there.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Half of Petrino's seasons were not top 5 finishes. He had one top 5 finish. That was also his one top ten finish. The 2010 team ended the season #12. Houston's 2006 team ended the season #15.

Look, Petrino showed what could happen at Arkansas with a coach that wasn't a complete and utter idiot. It's not like he's some diabolical genius that did something nobody else will ever do here. If Nutt had been not a complete and total idiot, his 1998, 2002, 2006, and 2007 teams all could have been top ten teams. The talent was definitely there.

revisionist history..... regularity given the topic

[bigbadhog]

Half of Petrino's seasons were not top 5 finishes. He had one top 5 finish. That was also his one top ten finish. The 2010 team ended the season #12. Houston's 2006 team ended the season #15.

Look, Petrino showed what could happen at Arkansas with a coach that wasn't a complete and utter idiot. It's not like he's some diabolical genius that did something nobody else will ever do here. If Nutt had been not a complete and total idiot, his 1998, 2002, 2006, and 2007 teams all could have been top ten teams. The talent was definitely there.

You might read it again.  Half of BP's seasons were 10 OR 11 win seasons with BCS and Top 5 finishes.  Didn't say both qualified for all of it each year and as a 40+ year fan of the program, I have a good handle on your historical situation.  Bottom line is one coach has gotten it done on The Hill in the past 31 years and the others haven't and I think BB legacy here will be much like HDN who never sniffed a top five finish with the Razorbacks.  He actually lost his last three games of 1998 and with him at the helm, it could have just as easily been his first three...

[Pigsknuckles]

Invalid pole, it's missing a very important option.

Invalid?

[PorkRinds]

Not sure why we would discuss his legacy after two seasons.  There's literally no way to know.  Plenty of us thought Petrino's legacy would be one for the ages when he had us trending toward the top, and now his legacy is garbage.  CBB's legacy will be decided by his future here, and there's no way to say now what it will be.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

You might read it again.  Half of BP's seasons were 10 OR 11 win seasons with BCS and Top 5 finishes.  Didn't say both qualified for all of it each year and as a 40+ year fan of the program, I have a good handle on your historical situation.  Bottom line is one coach has gotten it done on The Hill in the past 31 years and the others haven't and I think BB legacy here will be much like HDN who never sniffed a top five finish with the Razorbacks.  He actually lost his last three games of 1998 and with him at the helm, it could have just as easily been his first three...

So what happened to you this week for us to get a lecture on the absolute perfection and winning ways of Bobby Petrino?

The thing that remained the same after Broyles success was Broyles the AD. Broyles the AD was able to bring in two good coaches in his tenure (Holtz & Hatfield). I have a distinct feeling, and it is just my opinion, that Ford would have outshone Nutt if he had been retained for a few more years. It wasn't until Broyles retired that we were able to hire another decent HC.

Broyles was great for the athletic department but had a hard time keeping good coaches around.....

[HF#1]

Bielema > Petrino or Nutt.   He will have Broyles type success.  You can just tell by the way he runs things.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

You might read it again.  Half of BP's seasons were 10 OR 11 win seasons with BCS and Top 5 finishes.  Didn't say both qualified for all of it each year and as a 40+ year fan of the program, I have a good handle on your historical situation.  Bottom line is one coach has gotten it done on The Hill in the past 31 years and the others haven't and I think BB legacy here will be much like HDN who never sniffed a top five finish with the Razorbacks.  He actually lost his last three games of 1998 and with him at the helm, it could have just as easily been his first three...

You said:

"Yeah, half of HDN's seasons on The Hill were 10 or 11 wins seasons with BCS bowls and top five finishes just like BP..."

Bowls and finishes are plural words. Meaning they refer to more than one.

You're trying to make it seem like you said BP's seasons were either 10 win seasons with a BCS bowl appearance or 11 win seasons with a top 5 finish, in which case you would be correct, but you clearly didn't mean in that way based on your absolutely atrocious grammar. Perhaps you did mean it that way but consciously used absolutely atrocious grammar, in which case there's no reason for me to take your opinion seriously.

[HillBillyHogfan]

His blackjack table legacy will always supersede his football legacy

[Atlhogfan1]

Nutt avg 7.5 wins per season
Petrino avg 8.5

Part of it depends on the strength of the SEC and who we play. 

I think Bielema will fall closer to Petrino although it may take quite a few years to avg out that first season.  He has brought the most stability, organization and professional environment and leadership we have had in decades.  That gives him a chance for success at a program like ours at a competitive disadvantage.  Because of the depth of the SEC it may not result in much more ultimate success.  But I think it will "feel" much better and be more enjoyable than the last two circuses.  Actually going back to Broyles has sometimes felt like a circus or dirty with Broyles meddling and coaches pouting and not running their program completely as they would have otherwise.  Just one soap opera after another.  Hopefully this era ends that at the least. 

[Peter Porker]

Nutt avg 7.5 wins per season
Petrino avg 8.5

Part of it depends on the strength of the SEC and who we play. 

I think Bielema will fall closer to Petrino although it may take quite a few years to avg out that first season.  He has brought the most stability, organization and professional environment and leadership we have had in decades.  That gives him a chance for success at a program like ours at a competitive disadvantage.  Because of the depth of the SEC it may not result in much more ultimate success.  But I think it will "feel" much better and be more enjoyable than the last two circuses.  Actually going back to Broyles has sometimes felt like a circus or dirty with Broyles meddling and coaches pouting and not running their program completely as they would have otherwise.  Just one soap opera after another.  Hopefully this era ends that at the least.

Nutt coached 1 less game per season than Petrino (11 games to 12).

[bigbadhog]

So what happened to you this week for us to get a lecture on the absolute perfection and winning ways of Bobby Petrino?

The thing that remained the same after Broyles success was Broyles the AD. Broyles the AD was able to bring in two good coaches in his tenure (Holtz & Hatfield). I have a distinct feeling, and it is just my opinion, that Ford would have outshone Nutt if he had been retained for a few more years. It wasn't until Broyles retired that we were able to hire another decent HC.

Broyles was great for the athletic department but had a hard time keeping good coaches around.....

I had a flashback to when we were a top 10 team and then woke up to remember we have won 2 SEC games in two years and much is hogville is ready to crown BB the next Bear Bryant...  I agree with you except the part about Hatfield being a good coach.  Broyles hiring Hatfield over JJ in 1984 set our program back to the point it didn't recover until BP arrived...

[bigbadhog]

You said:

"Yeah, half of HDN's seasons on The Hill were 10 or 11 wins seasons with BCS bowls and top five finishes just like BP..."

Bowls and finishes are plural words. Meaning they refer to more than one.

You're trying to make it seem like you said BP's seasons were either 10 win seasons with a BCS bowl appearance or 11 win seasons with a top 5 finish, in which case you would be correct, but you clearly didn't mean in that way based on your absolutely atrocious grammar. Perhaps you did mean it that way but consciously used absolutely atrocious grammar, in which case there's no reason for me to take your opinion seriously.

What are you an English teacher?  It was clear what I meant.  So here goes again, BP had a 10 or 11 win season and either a BCS bowl or a top five finish in half of his coaching years on The Hill.  Is that better?  I was replying to PP's claim that BP's time here was much like Nutt's which could not be further from the truth...

[Peter Porker]

Yeah, half of HDN's seasons on The Hill were 10 or 11 wins seasons with BCS bowls and top five finishes just like BP...

Uhhhh....


Since this is a message board and speculation can occur here, let's assume Petrino was coach in 2012 and 2013 when the rosters were, "all his players". Would he had a Top 10 finish or BCS bowl game in either season? No. So, now instead of "half" it's a third.


WITH NO SEC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME APPEARANCES.

[Atlhogfan1]

Nutt coached 1 less game per season than Petrino (11 games to 12).

Nutt coached an avg of 12.3 games per season.
7.5 wins 4.8 losses
Petrino coached an avg of 12.75 over his 4 seasons.
8.5 wins 4.25 losses

[bigbadhog]

Uhhhh....


Since this is a message board and speculation can occur here, let's assume Petrino was coach in 2012 and 2013 when the rosters were, "all his players". Would he had a Top 10 finish or BCS bowl game in either season? No. So, now instead of "half" it's a third.


WITH NO SEC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME APPEARANCES.

so BP gets credit for PP's playcalling and JLS's lack of leadership?  I don't think so.  We will never know what would have happened if BP stayed.  You are only speculating and I know that must hurt...

[Großer Kriegschwein]

I had a flashback to when we were a top 10 team and then woke up to remember we have won 2 SEC games in two years and much is hogville is ready to crown BB the next Bear Bryant...  I agree with you except the part about Hatfield being a good coach.  Broyles hiring Hatfield over JJ in 1984 set our program back to the point it didn't recover until BP arrived...

What set us back was the hiring of Crowe.

Hatfield did well at Arkansas, but his relationship with JFB was nearly common knowledge across his recruiting base.

As far as JJ is concerned, I can only say one thing.


GRUDEN.

[Atlhogfan1]

Petrino won the games Nutt wouldn't.  LSU 2010 vs LSU 2006, pulling out wins even when not prepared vs teams like A&M, Vandy and Ole Miss in 2011 vs the 0 for Octobers.  The numbers doesn't look like much of a difference but there was. 

[Atlhogfan1]

What set us back was the hiring of Crowe.

Hatfield did well at Arkansas, but his relationship with JFB was nearly common knowledge across his recruiting base.

As far as JJ is concerned, I can only say one thing.


GRUDEN.

The Crowe hiring had causes.  You have to go back to the Tony Jones catch and Hatfield's actions in response to Broyles afterwards. 

[RazorPiggie]

This thread turned to crap really quick.  Kinda dumb to discuss legacy after 2 years.