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Can we talk about real stuff for a minute?

Started by Deep Shoat, December 30, 2016, 12:46:28 pm

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PonderinHog

I do think complacency is a factor.  Big lead, let off the gas a little, momentum swings, the snowball starts rolling...

Oklahawg

Quote from: porkrindjimmy on December 30, 2016, 02:28:52 pm
Then let me spell it out for you again. Piss poor, half assed distracted coaching. Pure and simple. You want to hash and rehash schemes, players, plays and lay the blame there. Fact is, Bielema relaxes. Gets up big and let's off. Somebody hits us in the mouth, and the players look for guidance from their coach and all they see is the "thousand yard stare". Again, you can play college insider all you want but this has become the face of Arkansas, Bret Bielema where even now the national media laughs at us. People saying he can't be brought back can he? National media outlets reporting the shoplifting incident....and that is uncommon? That is doing it the right way? It is 100% on Bret with his piss poor, half assed, distracted coaching. Plain and simple. And buyouts at 15 million dollars? Extortion comes to mind. I have seen mom and pops stores make better deals with the mafia...

Get out of here about schemes, jimmy and Joe's and plays.

I will tell you this and you will see it over the next two years. It ain't gonna take Bret long to break. Wait and see.

PRJ

One of the more ludicrous conspiracy theories I've read. Might be entertaining, might fit an agenda, but doesn't seem to be worth much.
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

 

ricepig

Quote from: Jim Harris on December 30, 2016, 02:07:45 pm
Top recruits are just pouring in from all over having watched "Being Bret Bielema" this past year.

Top recruits have been pouring in at Arkansas for years.

Deep Shoat

Quote from: Oklahawg on December 30, 2016, 02:31:16 pm
By logic, there should be 2-3 threads pissed that he took the time to conceive a child.
That is what prj is alluding too when he talks about distracted coaching.

He's saying CBB is too enamored of the home life to coach hard enough.
All Gas, No Brakes!

hogman99

Quote from: Silver Hog on December 30, 2016, 01:08:02 pm
Too much of the "Being Bert" TV show.

Be careful, I got ridiculed for saying that at the first of the season. They said it was good for recruiting and showcasing the program. I called BS, said it stupid, cheesy and a waste of time.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: Deep Shoat on December 30, 2016, 12:46:28 pm
If all you have to add is the standard "Fire Somebody" idiocy, then please post in one of the myriad threads dedicated to that.

It has been more and more obvious, as the season progressed, that we struggle in the 2nd half.  So, the real talk question is "Why?".

Is it lack of depth and fatigue?  Poor halftime adjustment?  Inexperience at key positions?  Weak minded players?

And please don't start the stupid "distracted coaching" crap prj peddles.  Our first half proves that isn't the issue.  There is no doubt Arkansas was a superbly prepared team in the first half yesterday.  And against Mizzou.  So where is the critical failure happening?

Figure it out yourself with your usual "idiocies", you will just as right or wrong as the next idiot.

Deep Shoat

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 30, 2016, 02:37:47 pm
Figure it out yourself with your usual "idiocies", you will just as right or wrong as the next idiot.
A wandering douchebag appears...
All Gas, No Brakes!

Dwight_K_Shrute

Quote from: Oklahawg on December 30, 2016, 02:31:16 pm
By logic, there should be 2-3 threads pissed that he took the time to conceive a child.

I have wondered about this.  What was the time commitment?  Did they conceive naturally?  Was it IVF?  Donor egg or sperm?  Did he have low motility and have to wear boxers or go commando?  Did he get treatments for Low T?  Was he on a schedule where if Jen was ovulating he had to go home immediately.  All of those things could have been a distraction and taken away from the number 1 priority of winning games.
Little known fact, but prior to settling on Guantanamo, the Pentagon wanted to house terror suspects at War Memorial Stadium.  It was deemed to be cruel and unusual punishment and in violation of the Geneva Convention.

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: Oklahawg on December 30, 2016, 02:32:31 pm
One of the more ludicrous conspiracy theories I've read. Might be entertaining, might fit an agenda, but doesn't seem to be worth much.

Dude cannot coach. He is in over his head here. Point me to evidence where you can dispute what I said? As a matter of fact, point out to me where your dear savior made some half time adjustments to win us a football game?

You need to look around, your chums who had Bret's back through thick and thin have jumped ship. They ain't with you anymore. Ask yourself why? They are tired of seeing a coach who is in over his head, who is piss poor, who is half assed and is distracted everytime a knat buzzes about. He ain't turning it around, he ain't gonna out Alabama Alabama. He ain't Nick Saban, He ain't Gus Malzahn, He ain't Bobby Petrino and it is a stretch to even compare him in coaching ability with one Colonel Houston Nutt. So go and take your stats, your sabermetrics and roll them up in a big newspaper and set it afire. You can smoke it or you can let it burn. Doesn't matter to me. Big boy is in over his head and big boy when the fans really turn on him in the next year, will turn tail and bail out of here as quick as the stagecoach can get to Fayetteville.

Conspiracy theory my ass.

PRJ

12247

Shoat, addressing your suggested items:  Depth:  we have enough decent players to have depth but we don't have depth.  Our second teamers rarely get to play except for blowouts either way.  When they do get in the game, they are asked to run out the clock and keep it simple, not operate like the game is on the line and actually learn something under game circumstances.  This is a decision of the HC to make.

Fatigue:  I do believe this happens sometimes because the starters usually play nearly every down due to no DEPTH.  This is a decision of the HC.

Distracted Coaches:  I don't know about this but the product on the field seems to me to indicate that not enough learning, conditioning, and mental toughness is taught during practice.  Most practices are closed to the fans so who really knows.  All I can see is the product and their results.

Recruiting or Simple Minded Players:  First off, is it reasonable to believe that our team is made up mostly of simple minded players, that out of roughly 100 players total, nearly none can learn or perform basic tasks of football.  These are the same players who on average do well in class.  That doesn't pass the logical test.  Additionally, research shows that BB and his assistants are recruiting right around and in some situations better than any Arkansas HC in the past 25 or so years.  Often, after the starter gets too hurt to play, we find the second teamer is better than the starter or at least just as good.  Think, Morgan coming on strong and recently, the OT whose name escapes me.  Think the recent 5 star QB who it was made clear to half way through Spring practice that he had no chance to start or even play this season.  Think about twice now, we end up entering the season without a real #2 QB due to transfer.  Why wouldn't a coach on top of the team know that before it reached about 10 days before the first game and that transfer happens.  It happened BBs first year here and then again this year. 

WE DON'T BUILD DEPTH FOR ALL THE REASONS LISTED.  WE CANNOT PLAY SECONDS BECAUSE THEY KNOW VERY LTTLE COMPARED TO WHAT THEY NEED TO KNOW.  WE GET TIRED FOR LACK OF RELIEF DURING THE GAMES. 

But the cooper and climax is that we do not have any mental toughness.  We enter every game just one distraction from falling apart.  If you will note, the tougher the situation gets, the less our HC pays attention to the team.  If our HC will clearly do this during the game right in front of all the fans and sometimes on National TV, what do you expect goes on during practice with this man.  I know we don't know but it isn't way out of line to make some assumptions when you see what you are allowed to see. 

Last night and in the MO game, we were done, fully cooked after the first negative thing happened to us.  Its like the players just knew it was over and BB just stood aside and did nothing to try and change the chemistry of the team standing near him on the sideline.

As for the Coach and his appearance:  I wish he tried harder to do better here.  Coming onto the sidelines looking like he was the last Dude to leave the bar and dance hall last night doesn't instill confidence in most of us.  Players cannot help but notice all these things.  It is rumored that he fell asleep while leading a film session.  If so, that is disgraceful.  Leaders lead 24/7 even when they just don't feel it, they lead.

In my opinion, every item you discussed in starting this thread goes right back to the leader.  We likely will have this coach for a long, long time.  But he will never cause this program to reach its upper limits, whatever they are.  He will not be dismissed due to cost and the fact that our AD would have to eat crow.  That is not likely to happen.

Potosihog

Saying we got conservative in the second half is not factual.  First or second play after VT scored was a deep pass to Morgan. Unfortunately he fumbled at the one yd line.  After the screen pass was tipped and picked we had to slow down and try to force the run. AA looked like a new deer chased by a coyote. Forcing deep throws or throws over the middle would only worsen the situation.  Unfortunately it didn't work and we turned it over then too.

I feel bad for Morgan. From the first play of the second half it was apparent that he was too high emotionally.  He was trying to win the game on his own as a senior in his final game. It got the best of him and when the opposing player trash talked him he lost it. 

If we could have run the ball and created one sustained drive in the second half for a TD I believe we would have won easily.  But we couldn't/didn't

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: Deep Shoat on December 30, 2016, 02:35:15 pm
That is what prj is alluding too when he talks about distracted coaching.

He's saying CBB is too enamored of the home life to coach hard enough.

No...he can't coach. Period. He is a snake oil salesman.

PRJ

Deep Shoat

Quote from: porkrindjimmy on December 30, 2016, 02:45:23 pm
No...he can't coach. Period. He is a snake oil salesman.

PRJ
Who coaches the first half?

But, I reckon if anyone can recognize snake oil salesmen, it's you...
All Gas, No Brakes!

 

Bubba's Bruisers

I don't think BB is a focused, demanding, details type head coach.  Struggles to figure things out in the heat of the moment when the game plan stops working...doesn't adjust well.  He's not a "guru" type.  I think he really just wants to beat you over the head with a baseball bat if at all possible.  That's somewhat ok if his coordinators and assistants are detailed, demanding guys who are good in the moment.  Not sure if that's the case. 

Also not sure if BB is overly meddling with the coordinators during the game.  I always suspect that when things seemingly get real conservative and basic, it's BB getting real involved. 

It could be any number of things or combination of things.  This is somewhat general, I know, but I'm a believer that, by and large, the troops eventually take in the personality/demeanor of their leader.  I bet there's a high probability that the problems, whatever they are, likely start with BB. 

Just guessing.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: Deep Shoat on December 30, 2016, 02:48:12 pm
Who coaches the first half?

But, I reckon if anyone can recognize snake oil salesmen, it's you...

Yes. I learned all about snake oil salesmen from Houston Nutt. Bret is the same way. I notice you can't point out any good coaching ability the man has...oh yes, except for the first half. Shoat, I hate to break this to you but football is 2 halves, 4 quarters. You have pushed all your chips in on Bret. It is commendable. It's wrong but commendable.

PRJ

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on December 30, 2016, 02:51:25 pm
I don't think BB is a focused, demanding, details type head coach.  Struggles to figure things out in the heat of the moment when the game plan stops working...doesn't adjust well.  He's not a "guru" type.  I think he really just wants to beat you over the head with a baseball bat if at all possible.  That's somewhat ok if his coordinators and assistants are detailed, demanding guys who are good in the moment.  Not sure if that's the case. 

Also not sure if BB is overly meddling with the coordinators during the game.  I always suspect that when things seemingly get real conservative and basic, it's BB getting real involved. 

It could be any number of things or combination of things.  This is somewhat general, I know, but I'm a believer that, by and large, the troops eventually take in the personality/demeanor of their leader.  I bet there's a high probability that the problems, whatever they are, likely start with BB. 

Just guessing.

You're not guessing. You are hitting the nail on the head. Repeatedly.

You are brutally correct.

PRJ

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: Deep Shoat on December 30, 2016, 02:41:01 pm
A wandering douchebag appears...

Your wording makes you a douchebag.  You know nothing about sports except how to kiss up to whom ever is in charge.  You don't want truth and you proved it with your post.  What kind of human ask a question and then tells you to lie to him.  "idiocy"

Why answer you question about "what's wrong" when you already said you don't want to hear anything negative.  By definition "what's wrong" is negative.

Quick answer, you embody everything that is wrong with Razorback sports.  Reading your post the only thing I could think of was "Americas dumbest fan base".

This whole(four)year we have been telling you what wrong and after the 51st game you as "what's wrong"...dah!

seasonhog

Quote from: ricepig on December 30, 2016, 02:33:11 pm
Top recruits have been pouring in at Arkansas for years.


The shoplifting & spitting on player will do more damage to recruiting then the head coach in a cycle wreck with a blonde other then wife......

code red

CBB is in over his head.  Seriously....He changes nothing that's why in year 3 he gets his teeth kicked in.
"If what you did yesterday seems big, you haven't done anything today."  Dr. Lou

Mo_Better_Hogs

Regarding Deep Shoat's original topic--what happens in the 2nd half?

What's funny (or NOT) is that we can immediately throw out our first 4 losses, because we just got our asses kicked. So they're in a totally different category. But Missouri and Virginia Tech is a different deal.

-Fatigue? I don't think so. Every team is tired at the end. However, when a team is fired up, when someone makes a great play, there is a big energy spike. You saw that with VT yesterday. So the tired team suddenly isn't so tired. I attribute any extra fatigue on our part to the lack of good things happening.

-Lack of depth? Always going to be an issue for us. Should that cost us games?...not always.

-Adjustments? Clearly. Austin was throwing comfortably most of the first half. VT found a way to get another body or 2 in there to disrupt him. It started with a few poor pass/incompletions and ended with a few awful pass/interceptions. I started seeing this early in the second half, but maybe our coaches didn't. What did VT say at halftime?...their quarterback is killing us, so we have to throw off his game. Check.

-Adjustments (part 2). How did AA's success in the first half, not loosen up VT's D just a little to help our running game get going? How did we not figure out a way to get our running backs involved in the game (other than DW's nice catch and run)? VT held the SEC's leading rusher to 30-something yards.

-The mental aspect? Gotta be huge. Did we stop believing? Eventually maybe. It's easier to look at the quarterback position, because you can track the tangible results. AA hit some good passes early in the second half, the 2 to Drew M were fumbled. Then, add in a few sacks, a few hurrys, a few penalties that caused some 2nd and longs or 3rd and longs. What followed were the killer interceptions. One was not the best throw (to the back), the others were terrible throws to double/triple-covered receivers. Did the big negative plays keep feeding our bad play? Guess so. Because no one else manned up and made any big plays.

PorkRinds

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on December 30, 2016, 02:51:25 pm
I don't think BB is a focused, demanding, details type head coach.  Struggles to figure things out in the heat of the moment when the game plan stops working...doesn't adjust well.  He's not a "guru" type.  I think he really just wants to beat you over the head with a baseball bat if at all possible.  That's somewhat ok if his coordinators and assistants are detailed, demanding guys who are good in the moment.  Not sure if that's the case. 

Also not sure if BB is overly meddling with the coordinators during the game.  I always suspect that when things seemingly get real conservative and basic, it's BB getting real involved. 

It could be any number of things or combination of things.  This is somewhat general, I know, but I'm a believer that, by and large, the troops eventually take in the personality/demeanor of their leader.  I bet there's a high probability that the problems, whatever they are, likely start with BB. 

Just guessing.

So You think CBB took over the offense in the second half and forced Enos to abandon the run?  CBB took over and did the exact opposite of beating them over the head with a baseball bat?  How does that make sense? 

Bacons Rebellion

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on December 30, 2016, 01:28:09 pm
Opponent knows we will either run on first down, or throw the quick out. They gamble we won't try to hit the intermediate to deep pass against press coverage. Most likely we end up in second and long.

Clearly, our offense gets more predictable in the second half. They force us into third and long, and we punt or turn it over. The missing element this season was the ability to run the ball in obvious running situations.

You could add to this the ability to run the ball in unlikely running situations. The situation didn't really matter for our running game.

The whole offensive problem is no real running game. If the offensive line CAN handle the other team (Mississippi State) we can't be stopped (literally can't be stopped -- MSU never stopped us). If the offensive line cannot handle the other team, we depend on big plays from the passing game. Depending on big plays is always a hit or miss deal.

tusksincolorado

Quote from: porkrindjimmy on December 30, 2016, 02:54:31 pm
Yes. I learned all about snake oil salesmen from Houston Nutt. Bret is the same way. I notice you can't point out any good coaching ability the man has...oh yes, except for the first half. Shoat, I hate to break this to you but football is 2 halves, 4 quarters. You have pushed all your chips in on Bret. It is commendable. It's wrong but commendable.

PRJ

PRJ...I agree that we all learned well at the feet of the master snake oil salesman. But since Holtz the average tenure for a razorback coach is 3.9 years. It lowers even more if we remove Nuttless's 10 year coaching stint. You need to have a solution for a replacement than just beetchin' about the problem...and no Chip, Brian, PJ, Art, nor Gruden is not going to appear on the Hawg horizon.
Screw it! I'm an old angry male, live with it!

Locutus_of_Boar

Quote from: Deep Shoat on December 30, 2016, 12:46:28 pm
If all you have to add is the standard "Fire Somebody" idiocy, then please post in one of the myriad threads dedicated to that.

It has been more and more obvious, as the season progressed, that we struggle in the 2nd half.  So, the real talk question is "Why?".

Is it lack of depth and fatigue?  Poor halftime adjustment?  Inexperience at key positions?  Weak minded players?

And please don't start the stupid "distracted coaching" crap prj peddles.  Our first half proves that isn't the issue.  There is no doubt Arkansas was a superbly prepared team in the first half yesterday.  And against Mizzou.  So where is the critical failure happening?

Is it lack of depth and fatigue?  Yes and no.  Yes specifically at the LB position due to lack of depth.  No elsewhere when Arkansas can possess the ball 40 minutes against Mizzou and still fall apart in the 3rd quarter.

Weak minded players? - In the sense of weak as easily provoked into retaliation penalties and repeating mistakes and especially in the case of AA being recklessly aggressive unlike BA who saved some situations with throw aways once the situation begins to fall apart?  Yes.  This last is on Enos too who won't back off when he knows AA will throw games away trying to respond immediately to every score.

And please don't start the stupid "distracted coaching" crap prj peddles.  Our first half proves that isn't the issue. - Distracted no.  Self fulfilling prophesies?  Maybe.  When your team Is ip 24-0 at the half and you walk off the field telling the sideline reporter there is no way your oing to fall apart in the 2nd half then it's obvious you as a coach are worried about exactly that scenario.  Essentially its a learned pattern of expectations that the coaching staff needs to break not to emphasize.

Essentially Arkansas has only one way of winning ball games and that is to score on virtually every possession and keep scoring.  Once they shut down and try to coast as in the 2nd qtr last night they can't crank it back up and when the defense cracks as they almost always do in the 2nd half its the same tired story.


 

Biggus Piggus

Biggest problem this season was internal. Some players thought the wrong people were starting. Created dissention that led to meltdowns.
[CENSORED]!

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: PorkRinds on December 30, 2016, 04:03:06 pm
So You think CBB took over the offense in the second half and forced Enos to abandon the run?  CBB took over and did the exact opposite of beating them over the head with a baseball bat?  How does that make sense? 

I said that's what he'd like to do.  I think that's who he is deep down.  As an example, I very much suspect our goal line failures against A$M had BB's prints all over it.  That was nothing like Enos to me.  We just tried to impose our will.   

The point is I don't think he's a deep X and O coach.  And the level of possible meddling is a general statement, not specifically the offense.  All HC's meddle during the game, because they're ultimately responsible. 

Personally I like the way he wants to play, but I'm concerned he's not a game day coach.  everything is speculation. 
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

ricepig

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on December 30, 2016, 05:00:20 pm
Biggest problem this season was internal. Some players thought the wrong people were starting. Created dissention that led to meltdowns.

That's not uncommon on any team. That's the reason there are so many transfers across the collegiate landscape.

PonderinHog

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on December 30, 2016, 05:00:20 pm
Biggest problem this season was internal. Some players thought the wrong people were starting. Created dissention that led to meltdowns.
Speaking of real.  darn just got real.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on December 30, 2016, 05:00:20 pm
Biggest problem this season was internal. Some players thought the wrong people were starting. Created dissention that led to meltdowns.

Not good if true.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

hogcard1964

Quote from: porkrindjimmy on December 30, 2016, 02:45:23 pm
No...he can't coach. Period. He is a snake oil salesman.

PRJ

This is now common knowledge and is finally being accepted. 

He's afraid to keep his foot on the necks of opponents.  It's like he wants to play ball control and eat clock, but he wants to throw 2 out of every 3 downs also.  He cannot figure things out.  I'm not sure if he pays attention to game film or sleeps through them in meetings, but he is a horrible and I mean HORRIBLE game coach. Always has been.

Biggus Piggus

Quote from: hogcard1964 on December 30, 2016, 05:10:40 pm
This is now common knowledge and is finally being accepted. 

He's afraid to keep his foot on the necks of opponents.  It's like he wants to play ball control and eat clock, but he wants to throw 2 out of every 3 downs also.  He cannot figure things out.  I'm not sure if he pays attention to game film or sleeps through them in meetings, but he is a horrible and I mean HORRIBLE game coach. Always has been.

You guys backwards-engineer all your simple excuses. Reality's more complicated. You can't watch what happened and understand why it happened. Not usually, but especially not now. This team came apart from within. Question is will things improve when some players are gone.
[CENSORED]!

PonderinHog

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on December 30, 2016, 05:13:57 pm
You guys backwards-engineer all your simple excuses. Reality's more complicated. You can't watch what happened and understand why it happened. Not usually, but especially not now. This team came apart from within. Question is will things improve when some players are gone.
Are they gone yet?

Deep Shoat

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 30, 2016, 02:57:43 pm
Your wording makes you a douchebag.  You know nothing about sports except how to kiss up to whom ever is in charge.  You don't want truth and you proved it with your post.  What kind of human ask a question and then tells you to lie to him.  "idiocy"

Why answer you question about "what's wrong" when you already said you don't want to hear anything negative.  By definition "what's wrong" is negative.

Quick answer, you embody everything that is wrong with Razorback sports.  Reading your post the only thing I could think of was "Americas dumbest fan base".

This whole(four)year we have been telling you what wrong and after the 51st game you as "what's wrong"...dah!
Reading comprehension is still on the decline, it seems.  I asked people to talk about what is actually wrong instead of the usual "BERT SUX AND HE'S LAZY AND FAT AND I HATE HIM" idiocy. 

If you want to talk ACTUAL football, I promise, I'll give you all you want.  If you just want to be a jerk about a coach that isn't going ANYWHERE, then you can suck it.
All Gas, No Brakes!

ArkansasI

Quote from: Jim Harris on December 30, 2016, 02:07:45 pm
Top recruits are just pouring in from all over having watched "Being Bret Bielema" this past year.
Come on Jim...  Razorback recruiting rankings are higher now than with previous staffs. And we have been doing reasonably well with out-of-state players.

I understand the frustration, but I think criticism for trying to build brand is misplaced.

hogcard1964

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on December 30, 2016, 05:13:57 pm
You guys backwards-engineer all your simple excuses. Reality's more complicated. You can't watch what happened and understand why it happened. Not usually, but especially not now. This team came apart from within. Question is will things improve when some players are gone.

What came apart?  He hit his high water mark in 2015 and that team was mediocre.    This year's team was a pretty big step backwards.  Next year's team will be the exact same deal we've seen for the past 4 years.  Don't act like he's built something respectable or substantial here. 

Jack

Quote from: ricepig on December 30, 2016, 02:33:11 pm
Top recruits have been pouring in at Arkansas for years.

if by "top recruits" you mean 2 star players, then yes.

hawgtime

Quote from: ATLHog on December 30, 2016, 01:48:25 pm
I just don't see the adjustments being made & they sure don't seem to be able to react when teams adjust to them. Not sure where the majority of blame falls but, ultimately, the coaches are responsible for preparation and clearly they are not fully prepared to play 4 quarters.

we do worse when we appear to have the game in control. if we are constantly fighting the entire game, we play a better game.


come ON

ricepig

Quote from: Jack on December 30, 2016, 06:00:01 pm
if by "top recruits" you mean 2 star players, then yes.

You failed to see the sarcasm n00b.

Jack

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on December 30, 2016, 05:00:20 pm
Biggest problem this season was internal. Some players thought the wrong people were starting. Created dissention that led to meltdowns.

so....CBB has lost control of the team and his coaches. i wouldn't disagree.

Jack

Quote from: ricepig on December 30, 2016, 06:00:57 pm
You failed to see the sarcasm n00b.

nor you mine, guy with 34K posts that has yet to say anything.

Hawgphish


Oklahawg

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on December 30, 2016, 05:00:20 pm
Biggest problem this season was internal. Some players thought the wrong people were starting. Created dissention that led to meltdowns.

Quote from: ricepig on December 30, 2016, 05:07:32 pm
That's not uncommon on any team. That's the reason there are so many transfers across the collegiate landscape.

That is not what Biggus is talking about. We just witnessed a real clunker this year and have pointed fingers at every fluttering bug and in the process missed some of the real issues.
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

ricepig

Quote from: Jack on December 30, 2016, 06:04:18 pm
nor you mine, guy with 34K posts that has yet to say anything.

Jack, we hardly knew you......

ricepig

Quote from: Oklahawg on December 30, 2016, 07:58:07 pm
That is not what Biggus is talking about. We just witnessed a real clunker this year and have pointed fingers at every fluttering bug and in the process missed some of the real issues.

Says anonymous sources, lol.

JOKERHOG

Quote from: Deep Shoat on December 30, 2016, 12:46:28 pm
If all you have to add is the standard "Fire Somebody" idiocy, then please post in one of the myriad threads dedicated to that.

It has been more and more obvious, as the season progressed, that we struggle in the 2nd half.  So, the real talk question is "Why?".

Is it lack of depth and fatigue?  Poor halftime adjustment?  Inexperience at key positions?  Weak minded players?

And please don't start the stupid "distracted coaching" crap prj peddles.  Our first half proves that isn't the issue.  There is no doubt Arkansas was a superbly prepared team in the first half yesterday.  And against Mizzou.  So where is the critical failure happening?

Big, slow players and lack of ability to make adjustments
BRINGING BALANCE AND PERSPECTIVE TO HOGVILLE

"You're too damn illiterate to have a college education.  And I'm serious"  - Hawgar the Horrible 1/19/2017

5 most hated: 1Auburn 2Auburn 3Auburn 4A&M 5OU

Psychohog

Is Tito's considered real stuff and is it relevant?
Never smarten up a chump.

Oklahawg

"real stuff" = a fantastic attempt, and I appreciate it.

What I don't think has been recognized is the offense's ability to come out "hot" more often than not. That first half vs second half scoring differential is not just the story of a bad finishing team. It is also the skill of the offensive staff to script a strong start.

We have talent issues that make building upon the script difficult.

Consider the players who had meaningful touches in the first third of the game: Pettway, Stewart, O'Grady, Hammonds. Enos and Co involved every bit of talent he could squeeze out of the roster.

Consider that for at least Missouri and Va Tech (I'll suggest there are others) Hatcher is a beast in the first half, and then disappears in the second half. Other teams have coaches watch film, and that should jump off of the tape. What is happening? Enos is SCRIPTING plays and forcing Allen to hit the go-to WR.

When the script runs out you can't trot out some of the players because they lack the capacity to execute. Go back into the August player interviews and Hatcher notes that he had to force his way into summer workout time with Allen. Back-up Austin Allen used to throw extensively with Morgan, before Morgan exploded on the scene in 2015 out of necessity. Now, Hatcher, the #1 WR, has to beg his way into voluntary workouts.

Watch when Reed or Hatcher or Cornelius make a good play. They congratulate each other. Morgan rarely congratulates any of them. The players know who is the top WR. When your QB gets past the opening script and suddenly the top WR production disappears and suddenly Morgan's touches increase...you have the making of a bad situation.

I am of the opinion CBB drew a line in the sand last summer and said this is the year we quit burning redshirts, playing true frosh who really don't play enough to justify not redshirting. You may well have some frustrations from players because someone next to them needed to be replaced by a true frosh, but wasn't.

CBB has a tendency to stick to principles, to a fault. TJ Hammonds played very little because of "ball security" issues. Brian Wallace didn't start to begin the year (and had the off-season of position switches) because he had a tendency to "take off plays". How much did that hurt? What if you live with a bobble or two throughout the year but plug both those guys in from day one?

Back to my main point - I have warmed to the notion that the offense scripted heavily to start games but when the script either ran out or defenses adjusted we were done. That is a talent issue, not a coaching issue, in my book.
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

JOKERHOG

BRINGING BALANCE AND PERSPECTIVE TO HOGVILLE

"You're too damn illiterate to have a college education.  And I'm serious"  - Hawgar the Horrible 1/19/2017

5 most hated: 1Auburn 2Auburn 3Auburn 4A&M 5OU

wachhog

Quote from: Jim Harris on December 30, 2016, 02:07:45 pm
Top recruits are just pouring in from all over having watched "Being Bret Bielema" this past year.
Yes. Maybe he can get a Kardashian to make guest appearances. Then the most talented recruits who otherwise would flock to dull, boring, forever-winning Saban at Bama will be beating our door down. I don't know whether BB could ever coach, but regardless, it seems to me he got star struck. How many young players have we seen this happen to? Chronologically, BB is a grown man, but..

hoglady

Quote from: Oklahawg on December 30, 2016, 08:19:11 pm
"real stuff" = a fantastic attempt, and I appreciate it.

What I don't think has been recognized is the offense's ability to come out "hot" more often than not. That first half vs second half scoring differential is not just the story of a bad finishing team. It is also the skill of the offensive staff to script a strong start.

We have talent issues that make building upon the script difficult.

Consider the players who had meaningful touches in the first third of the game: Pettway, Stewart, O'Grady, Hammonds. Enos and Co involved every bit of talent he could squeeze out of the roster.

Consider that for at least Missouri and Va Tech (I'll suggest there are others) Hatcher is a beast in the first half, and then disappears in the second half. Other teams have coaches watch film, and that should jump off of the tape. What is happening? Enos is SCRIPTING plays and forcing Allen to hit the go-to WR.

When the script runs out you can't trot out some of the players because they lack the capacity to execute. Go back into the August player interviews and Hatcher notes that he had to force his way into summer workout time with Allen. Back-up Austin Allen used to throw extensively with Morgan, before Morgan exploded on the scene in 2015 out of necessity. Now, Hatcher, the #1 WR, has to beg his way into voluntary workouts.

Watch when Reed or Hatcher or Cornelius make a good play. They congratulate each other. Morgan rarely congratulates any of them. The players know who is the top WR. When your QB gets past the opening script and suddenly the top WR production disappears and suddenly Morgan's touches increase...you have the making of a bad situation.

I am of the opinion CBB drew a line in the sand last summer and said this is the year we quit burning redshirts, playing true frosh who really don't play enough to justify not redshirting. You may well have some frustrations from players because someone next to them needed to be replaced by a true frosh, but wasn't.

CBB has a tendency to stick to principles, to a fault. TJ Hammonds played very little because of "ball security" issues. Brian Wallace didn't start to begin the year (and had the off-season of position switches) because he had a tendency to "take off plays". How much did that hurt? What if you live with a bobble or two throughout the year but plug both those guys in from day one?

Back to my main point - I have warmed to the notion that the offense scripted heavily to start games but when the script either ran out or defenses adjusted we were done. That is a talent issue, not a coaching issue, in my book.


Well - not totally a talent issue.
The Allen/Morgan scenario you speak of - is basically 2 very selfish players intentionally shutting out other talented and needed players. Hatcher should never have to beg Austin Allen into voluntary workouts - ever.
And if he does, then maybe the coaches should question Allen's ability to lead the team.
Not surprised about Morgan - his blatant lack of effort last night when blocking for D Reed was obvious to anyone watching.
Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?

"Compassion for animals is intimately associated with goodness of character, and it may be confidently asserted that he who is cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
― Arthur Schopenhauer, The Basis of Morality